tu154
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:37 am

America West Interested In UsAir.

Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:16 pm

America West may be interested in funding UsAirways. Read the link below.





http://biz.yahoo.com/deal/050415/usairwayssearchesforcash.html?.v=2
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5467
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:25 pm

YEAH!!! That would be a good thing for both groups! HP could go international beyond Mexico and Canada.. US could finally get a presence in the west through the codeshare... It could also mean a codeshare through Royal Jordan, America West, and USAirways.. and it would answer the question of why HP is on the board at CLT... ahhh.. so many questions answered with one simple move...
Aiming High and going far..
 
redflyer
Posts: 3881
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:18 pm

I'm not sure how this would help HP. Does HP think it's bleeding red because it doesn't have access to Mexico or Canada? I'm not quite sure how one disfunctional money-losing airline funding (with what little reserves it may have) another disfunctional money-losing airline is going to help both.
My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
 
jdaniel001
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:36 pm

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:21 pm

Maybe HP will join Star?
We Are UNITED!
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6504
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:22 pm

A similar thread on the subject was created last week.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2045310
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5467
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:22 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 2):
Does HP think it's bleeding red because it doesn't have access to Mexico or Canada?

Correction.. HP already flies to Mexico AND Canada, as does US Airways.. however, US Airways flies to many European and Caribbean destination that HP does not fly to. And HP already has flights to many of US European and Caribbean gateway..

likewise, US already flies to HP's hubs that will offer US flights to Hawaii and the Mexico destinations that US doesn't cover.. so it is a good cooperative route network between HP and US.. if you can't see that, then dang!
Aiming High and going far..
 
Jamake1
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 2:30 pm

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:34 am

Good: Let the consolidation and the divorces begin.

HP can have US.

UA dumps US and US leaves Star Alliance.

UA courts CO and CO joins Star Alliance.

DL and NW, the two jealous step-sisters, kick CO out of Sky Team.

Star Alliance will have hubs in SFO, LAX, DEN, IAH, ORD, IAD, and EWR.

Perfect!
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:40 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 6):
Good: Let the consolidation and the divorces begin.

HP can have US.

UA dumps US and US leaves Star Alliance.

UA courts CO and CO joins Star Alliance.

DL and NW, the two jealous step-sisters, kick CO out of Sky Team.

Star Alliance will have hubs in SFO, LAX, DEN, IAH, ORD, IAD, and EWR.

Perfect!

Followed by bankruptcy and liquidation of both US and HP.
One Nation Under God
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:57 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5):
so it is a good cooperative route network between HP and US..

Are you kidding me?

The route networks are almost completely disconnected from each other, and have minimal opportunities for cross-carrier feed. If HP had retained its CMH hub, or if US had retained a significant intra-West Coast operation, the case for a tie-up would be stronger.

Not to mention, of course, that US and HP target completely different market segments. Simply put, HP's business model places a much stronger emphasis on catering to leisure flyers than US' does, a result of being based in two of the lowest-yield hubs in the country. That said, should HP and US join forces, HP will be in an excellent position to capture additional PHX/LAS-bound business traffic, at US' expense of course.

US would also likely find HP consistently undercutting its fares on codeshare itineraries, causing US to be WORSE off revenue-wise than if it had just stayed independent. While a narrowly-tailored codesharing arrangement with HP could possibly work, a broad codesharing deal between US and HP would likely be inadvisable for US' finances going forward.
Live life to the fullest.
 
dallas74
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:09 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:05 am

This would be great - for Southwest!

Instead of bleeding two carriers to death with low fares they can kill two birds with one stone. PHL, BWI, PIT, LAS, and PHX are all LUV cities where AWA and U can't get any pricing traction.

Given the fact the merger will have a boat load of costs the next new destination for this merged carrier would be the nearest US Bankruptcy Court!
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13397
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:35 am

Until the CASM at US falls and the RASM at HP rises, this would be like trying to make a boat by chaining two anchors together.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4110
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:06 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
The route networks are almost completely disconnected from each other, and have minimal opportunities for cross-carrier feed. If HP had retained its CMH hub, or if US had retained a significant intra-West Coast operation, the case for a tie-up would be stronger.

I am hoping you made an error in making this statement? The CMH hub was the weakest example of a hub we've seen in a while. The whole purpose was to allow flights to the NE because HP's early fleet types couldn't make it nonstop. Eventually the hub went to mostly ERJs. Not a strong hub...and not one that would really make a damn bit of difference.

As far as a merger goes...the route networks work very well together. There would be significant opportunity for launching new services out of PHX and CLT to cities in both networks. In the HP system you'd likely see flights to PDX, SLC, OAK, OMA, OKC, AUS, SAT, etc. added to the system out of CLT and/or PHL. On the flip side you'd see several markets in the US network to the system out of PHX.

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
Not to mention, of course, that US and HP target completely different market segments. Simply put, HP's business model places a much stronger emphasis on catering to leisure flyers than US' does, a result of being based in two of the lowest-yield hubs in the country. That said, should HP and US join forces, HP will be in an excellent position to capture additional PHX/LAS-bound business traffic, at US' expense of course.

This is obvious...but the HP model domestically is the way the country is going. The best thing that could happen would be the domestic service take on the HP model and allow the international service follow the US model.

Quoting Dallas74 (Reply 9):
This would be great - for Southwest!

Instead of bleeding two carriers to death with low fares they can kill two birds with one stone. PHL, BWI, PIT, LAS, and PHX are all LUV cities where AWA and U can't get any pricing traction.

Given the fact the merger will have a boat load of costs the next new destination for this merged carrier would be the nearest US Bankruptcy Court!

Would it be great? I highly doubt Southwest would want another national carrier with the foot print HP/US would come up with. If they are able to keep the CASM low (still waiting to see what US's fell too in Q1) then WN wouldn't be that happy. Of course it would apply greater presure to the other majors which would idealy spur consolidation which will be good for everyone.

Also, you continue to press PIT when you discuss US. Its not a hub anymore, just merely a focus city. You also always mention BWI...US dehubbed that MANY moons ago - its time to update your facts. As far as either carrier gaining any traction in these cities...HP seems to be hanging with WN just fine in PHX and LAS.

Yes mergers cost a lot...and if you read the media reports out there, they all point to a third party footing the billing for such a merger. US is already under Ch11 protection...and its not far fetched to think Mesa will come out from behind to buy up as much of US as possible to integrate it into HP.
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2869
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:13 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5):
likewise, US already flies to HP's hubs that will offer US flights to Hawaii and the Mexico destinations that US doesn't cover.. so it is a good cooperative route network between HP and US.. if you can't see that, then dang!

America West does not fly to Hawaii, and neither does USAirways... but they both have access to Hawaii, HP via Hawaiian and USAirways through United, and fly to all of their hubs with service to Hawaii ORD DEN LAX SFO. And not only that, i believe HP sends its passengers on BA's flight from Phoenix to London, and BA vice-versa to San Diego, Tucson...(or is that over)

TWA902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
tockeyhockey
Posts: 880
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:57 pm

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:17 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
The route networks are almost completely disconnected from each other

PHL seems a logical meeting spot -- move people in from the west, shoot them off to europe, or down to SXM!
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:20 am

What about HP and IndyAir? Independence air has most of its flights in the east which would complement HP's route structure based in the west.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
galapagapop
Posts: 861
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:27 am

Won't happen. And if it did happen will the name stay America West or will it be US Airways? still don't see it. The fleet matches though but thats it, not to mention US's track record and interest in the West, and HP's track record in the East. The only way this really would worked was if HP was to redo US from the ground up by putting the 757's and other 733's on domestic routes that HP would find appealing for an LCC model. Keep PHL, seeing as HP is one of only a few carriers that can co-exist with WN, which is amazing seeing as HP's hubs are WN's 2 largest cities. I'm also sure HP could use the LGA shuttle and other parts of US to their favor, but its unlikely seeing as HP has cash problems of their own.
 
airknight
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:43 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:16 am

from a dollars and cents, standpoint, it makes no sense (pardon the pun), but its not like the airlines (and transportation industry as a whole) learn from their mistakes, so i would not be surprised if something like this would happen
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 1698
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:04 pm

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 14):
What about HP and IndyAir? Independence air has most of its flights in the east which would complement HP's route structure based in the west.

That makes slightly more sense than HP-US, but it won't happen. Without a huge cash infusion, none of the aforementioned carriers (ex. WN) can afford to buy anyone anytime soon. I've always thought F9 and DH would make a good team one day...West meets East and all that, but not in the current operating/revenue enviornment
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
SonOfACaptain
Posts: 1695
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 5:36 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:44 pm

Folks, never in this article did it mentioned that they were going to merge. In fact, it said the exact opposite. So don't get to hyped up about it. All the article is saying is that HP may provide the final money US needs to exit bankruptcy. This then may lead to an ALLIANCE, not a merger.

On a side not, US would never do anything to risk its membership in Star.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:52 pm

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 6):
Good: Let the consolidation and the divorces begin.

HP can have US.

UA dumps US and US leaves Star Alliance.

UA courts CO and CO joins Star Alliance.

DL and NW, the two jealous step-sisters, kick CO out of Sky Team.

Star Alliance will have hubs in SFO, LAX, DEN, IAH, ORD, IAD, and EWR.

Perfect!

Sounds more like a plot that one might see in the theatrical soap opera world of professional wrestling!
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8545
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:22 pm

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 11):
Would it be great? I highly doubt Southwest would want another national carrier with the foot print HP/US would come up with.

WN are manuevering around US like they aren't even aliave any more. How would an HP merger change that in the near term?

If you take 2-3 years to regroup the two airlines into a serious competitive force, WN's grown a minimum of 25% in that amount of time. Factor in market dynamics (i.e. high oil) that are unpredictible to all but a select few airlines (i.e. WN, again) and I don't see how this would pose a threat to WN (if it even took place)  hot 
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:27 pm

People, People, PEOPLE!!!!! Whats the matter with you all?! We all know that this is NOT going to happen! Why on earth do you all think this is going to happen? HP knows if they bought US they'd be in the toilet in the next day and will never get out of it.

Remember HP CEO Parker abandoned the idea of aquiring ATA because he thought that it wasn't worth the hassle of dealing with ATA's problems. What makes you think HP is interested in US? If Parker abandoned the idea of taking ATA, you can bet Parker wont even take US either.... food for thought.....
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:16 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):
Remember HP CEO Parker abandoned the idea of aquiring ATA because he thought that it wasn't worth the hassle of dealing with ATA's problems.

More accurately, HP didn't go forward because what they would have ended up with was an airline with too few planes. The pullout really had less to do with ATA's "problems", as much as the value HP would have received.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):
What makes you think HP is interested in US?

Hmmmmm, 757's, Carribean & Central American routes, East coast network, gates.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5467
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:41 pm

Alright everyone.. let's get this straight.. somehow we have veered off the point of this post..

America West is not going to BUY US Airways.. the post stated that America West and US Airways would go into a codeshare agreement and America West would infuse the remaining $100M cash into US Airways.. It was not mentioned that America West would buy or merge or take-over US Airways..

Industry sources said that Tempe, Ariz.-based America West, operator of the nation's eighth-largest airline, could be interested in providing the remainder of the funding US Airways needs. Any deal between the two companies would probably fall well short of a merger, with the airlines likely agreeing to a code-sharing alliance to coordinate schedules and sell tickets on each other's flights.

Now lets get this back on track...

[Edited 2005-04-16 13:42:52]

[Edited 2005-04-16 13:43:08]
Aiming High and going far..
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:04 pm

US Airways would likely be able to codeshare with HP without jeopardizing its membership in Star Alliance. That said, there would still be two issues to consider:

1. Does the UA/US codesharing agreement, which is separate from the Star agreements, preclude US from entering into an alliance with another major US airline without United's approval?

and

2. Will US find it economically worthwhile to remain in the Star Alliance (with the associated costs) vs. ditching the alliance and maintaining bilateral agreements with some of the member carriers (e.g., UA/LH/AC).
Live life to the fullest.
 
cactusTECH
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:11 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:40 pm

As far as us in maintenance department at America West what we hear is that we would kill for 757's right now before the year is over and we start our ETOPS program. US airbus have different engines and they do have 757 with RB211 engines. I doubt we would ever buy them for the fact that we dont have enough money and we are doing tooooo good right now to make situations bad for us.
 
NWADC9
Posts: 3938
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:33 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:05 pm

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 6):
UA courts CO and CO joins Star Alliance.

DL and NW, the two jealous step-sisters, kick CO out of Sky Team.

No, that would never happen! NW and CO are buddies. They were codeshares, along with Delta, even before they joined Star. They're staying in SkyTeam.
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:57 am

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 26):
No, that would never happen!

CO and NW are not married to each other - there are provisions in the alliance agreement that allow either party to terminate with as little as 12 months advance notice. Also, CO gets very little out of being a member of SkyTeam on account of duplicity, whereas it would be able to much better leverage its route strenghts with the Star Alliance.
Live life to the fullest.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: America West Interested In UsAir.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 23):
the post stated that America West and US Airways would go into a codeshare agreement and America West would infuse the remaining $100M cash into US Airways

Then the thread needs to be renamed.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AC_B777, andrej, arnie, aw70, azz767, Baidu [Spider], BFSBHD, Bing [Bot], BlueF9A320, cathay747, chiad, CRJ900, GBerg, Honeythief, KarelXWB, MrBren, newbief1yer, oslmgm, OzarkD9S, Pie11e, Polot, SingaporeBoy, StTim, tvh, xjet and 329 guests