Flying Belgian
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Longest A330-300 Route.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:13 pm

Hi there.

Since NW doesn't operate its A333 from U.S West Coast to Asia/Europe I was wondering which is the longest A333 route in the world.

My bet is going to the ICN-PRG-ICN flown by KE's A330-323X.

Any longest ?  Wink


FB.
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ZK-NBT
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:16 pm

CX's 333's go to MEL and SYD which are fairly long for the 300 series, over 9 hours. QF fly them SYD-PVG and SYD/MEL-HKG aswell.
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:20 pm

Figures:

ICN - PRG = 5131 mi
HKG - MEL = 4590 mi
SYD - PVG = 4870 mi

According to Great Circle Mapper.
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BritPilot777
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:37 pm

BMI does a MAN - LAS flight of 5087 miles
Forever Flight
 
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PM
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:42 pm

I've seen a Malaysian 333 at Istanbul. That's a fair distance.
 
bill142
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:46 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 4):
I've seen a Malaysian 333 at Istanbul. That's a fair distance

KUL-IST is 5206 mi which is further then ICN-PRG
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:51 pm

Quoting BritPilot777 (Reply 3):
BMI does a MAN - LAS flight of 5087 miles

Thats a 332 which have a fair bit more range than the 333, not exactly sure on the figures.

Is/was the MH service to Istanbul non stop from KUL?
 
MYT332
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:51 pm

Quoting BritPilot777 (Reply 3):
BMI does a MAN - LAS flight of 5087 miles

That's on a -200 though. Longer range.
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PM
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:57 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 5):
KUL-IST is 5206 mi which is further then ICN-PRG

Thanks, I don't have access to these numbers right now. My only 333 flight was on Sabena from LFW to BRU via ABJ (SN514) though I doubt if that's unusually long.
 
hoons90
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:00 am

Isn't the scheduled equipment for KUL-IST an A330-200?
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Beno
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:15 am

QF also fly the A333s on the PER-NRT route which is 4919mi
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:17 am

AFAIK, MH flies the 332 on the KUL-IST leg.

Maybe Turkish spotters can help ?

FB.
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matt
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:18 am

This is not the longest but among the longest.

Air Canada uses its A330-300 on the YVR-LHR route, which is 4723 mi.
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behramjee
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:35 am

MH flies to IST via DXB twice a week with seasonal increase to B 744s which happened last winter.
 
N808NW
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:38 am

NW will be starting the A333 on SEA-AMS in a few months.

-Jason  swirl 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:56 am

Quoting N808NW (Reply 14):
NW will be starting the A333 on SEA-AMS in a few months.

I always heard NW would operate the A330-200 on this sector.

FB.
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keno
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:51 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 13):
MH flies to IST via DXB twice a week

MH's 2x weekly KUL-IST services are now nonstop using A330-200. The only present MH destination that stops in DXB is BEY.
 
Checo77
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:06 am

So is the longest route ICN-PRG??? That´s good. At last, PRG is special!!! Big grin receiving the longest A333 route!!!
Regards,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
AerlingusEI521
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:17 am

then as the 333 has a fairly short range ( compared to its rivals, ie 762 - 763) can we that it isn't "such a good" aircraft? I am not opening an A vs B debate, since I am an (french) airbus fan and would normally favor Airbus planes.

BUT: I think the 333 was a commercial failure compared to the 332. Btw is the 333 still produced now? Have there been some upgrades ( A 330-313X)?

moreover, I think EI was an early 333 adopter and then had to buy two 332 to serve LAX... Would this mean that an DUB-LAX route is out of range for a 333?

thanks for the answers!
 
Loadsheet
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:23 am

KE also operates ICN-ZRH with their A330-300 - so i think this is one of the longest routes and longer as the ICN-PRG sector.
 
gerardo
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:42 am

KE flies with A330-200 to ZRH. This route is 4733 nm long, compared to 4459 nm for ICN-PRG and 4524 nm for KUL-IST.

Gerardo
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N1120A
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:00 am

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 15):
I always heard NW would operate the A330-200 on this sector.

I think you are right. That way they can rotate the spare from SEA-NRT and keep it off the ground
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NLINK
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:04 am

The 330-300 is in the sked but that could change for the SEA-AMS leg, but it changes to a 330-200 in the winter last time I looked, but that could have changed by now.
 
yul332LX
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:09 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 15):
I always heard NW would operate the A330-200 on this sector.

I think you are right. That way they can rotate the spare from SEA-NRT and keep it off the ground

I heard that too but NW 's RES clearly shows an 333 on SEA-AMS.
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N751PR
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:15 am

Courtesy of my friend lyrad89 of the PFSG forum.

Rarely PR's A333s are deployed on the MNL-HNL route. A total of 5302 miles.


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N1120A
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:16 am

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 23):
I heard that too but NW 's RES clearly shows an 333 on SEA-AMS.

Apparently they are changing that this Winter. I know EI had to order the specifically for DUB-LAX because of restriction worries with the A333. Still, SEA-AMS is almost 300nm shorter than DUB-LAX, so the A333 should be able to make it many days
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xwizard
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:58 am

Quoting AerlingusEI521 (Reply 18):
then as the 333 has a fairly short range ( compared to its rivals, i.e. 762 - 763) can we that it isn't "such a good" aircraft? I am not opening an A vs B debate, since I am an (french) airbus fan and would normally favor Airbus planes.

Not according to the data provided by Airliners.net "Aircraft Data and History" Section

A330-300 = 4,500NM to 4,640NM depending on engines used

B767-300 = 4,230NM to 4,360NM depending on engines used.

Note that both are the "standard" versions, i.e. not long range or ER.

Having flown CX's HKG-MEL-HKG route more than a few times (a route that's 50NM short of the published range of the aircraft) I'm pretty impressed with the plane's capabilities - every time I've been on it its been packed to the gills and the amount of cargo loaded on (particularly at MEL) is impressive.
 
SWISSER
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:13 am

How and what does SK with there Rolls royce A333's?
They are quite new, so maybe they are more capable since SK bought them to replace 767's...
Anyway I found it strange they not bought A332's!
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N1120A
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:15 am

Quoting Xwizard (Reply 26):
Not according to the data provided by Airliners.net "Aircraft Data and History" Section

A330-300 = 4,500NM to 4,640NM depending on engines used

B767-300 = 4,230NM to 4,360NM depending on engines used.

And using the A.net Aircraft Data section was your first mistake, as it is almost always completely and totally wrong.

BTW, the 763ER (which is the one used to measure), has over 6100nm in range.
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matt
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:28 am

Air Canada used the A330-300 on its YVR-NRT route for a short while in 2004. Total miles: 4674 mi. Have any other airlines used the 333 on transpacific (nonstop) routes, excluding Hawaii?
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jetjack74
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 23):
I heard that too but NW 's RES clearly shows an 333 on SEA-AMS

It's listed in PARS as an A330-300. It begins 6/1.
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VHXLR8
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:22 pm

I've also heard talk of Qantas replacing the 747 300s with A330s on the Sydney-Mumbai route. That would indeed be a long flight for the A330 300.
Not sure if it would be the 200 or 300, although at the moment, only the 300s have the international interiors.
 
gigneil
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:26 pm

Quoting Xwizard (Reply 26):

Having flown CX's HKG-MEL-HKG route more than a few times (a route that's 50NM short of the published range of the aircraft) I'm pretty impressed with the plane's capabilities - every time I've been on it its been packed to the gills and the amount of cargo loaded on (particularly at MEL) is impressive.

I am fairly sure that the majority of CX's 333s are the increased MTOW variants.

N
 
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PM
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:37 pm

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 9):
Isn't the scheduled equipment for KUL-IST an A330-200?



Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 11):
AFAIK, MH flies the 332 on the KUL-IST leg.

I should have made it clear that the 333 I saw at Istanbul was in December 1995, long before Malaysian had any 332s. For all I know, they do now fly 332s on that route but not nearly a decade ago.

Quoting AerlingusEI521 (Reply 18):
I think the 333 was a commercial failure compared to the 332. Btw is the 333 still produced now?

It has been very far from a failure and is certainly in production. Cathay have 29 in service or on order, all -300s, and there may yet be more to come. Dragonair are still taking them, as are Northwest. Qatar ordered -300s after their earlier order for -200s and the recent China Eastern order for 20 is all for -300s. The China Airlines order for 14 is for -300s and Lufthansa are still taking delivery of the 10 -300s they've ordered. Is that enough to suggest that you may be premature to dismiss the 333 as a "failure"?
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:03 pm

aer lingus use their a330-200's on the dublin -lax route....5181 nm
 
VHXLR8
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:55 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 33):
Qatar ordered -300s after their earlier order for -200s

Qantas did the exact same; they ordered the 300s AFTER their initial orders for 200s. I think one factor adding to the 'delayed success' of the A330 300 is Boeing inability to provide a suitable replacement for the 767 300.
The 767 300 was a hugely successful aircraft, which opened up many new markets for airlines the world over. However, now with the 767 300s starting to age a bit, the airlines are looking to replace them, and it would seem that the A330 300 (and 200 of course) is now quite attractive.
Don't get me wrong, the A330 300 is a beautiful aircraft (I love flying on it, as pax and as crew), but now the 300 can really shine for what it is, free from the shadow of the 767.
 
AerlingusEI521
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:04 pm

PM,

thanks for this precisions. indeed, yes I think I made a "premature statement". Didn't know the 333 was still selling well ( maybe I misjudged the situation due to the fact that here, when AF ordered some 330, they bought the 332) . I didn't know the 333 had such range capabilities, and indeed, it must then be a good aircraft.
 
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PM
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:29 pm

Quoting AerlingusEI521 (Reply 36):
PM, thanks for this precisions.

Mon plaisir!

Quoting AerlingusEI521 (Reply 36):
AF ordered some 330, they bought the 332

Yep. The 333 are 332 are designed to do different jobs and AF's need was for longer routes than the 333 can manage. But the 333 wasn't designed to fly a long way. Its first operator, remember, was Air Inter flying it domestically within France and carrying 400 passengers!!! Lufthansa fly the 333 to the Middle East. SAS fly it to the US East Coast. Cathay fly it on regional routes in Asia. That kind of thing is what it was designed to do and it seems to do it quite effectively.
 
jupiter2
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:29 pm

VHXLR8, QF ordered the 333 at the same time as the 332. Originally the order was for 7 332 and 6 333, this was later changed to 4 332 and 9 333, after the comparative failure of the 332's on domestic sectors, ie : SYD/MEL, SYD/BNE, fine aircraft though for the PER runs.
Can we please forget about comparing the 763, with the 333 especially. The 333 is a HUGE aircraft compared to the 763, better comparing it with the DC 10 and L1011, comparable in capacity, but a much more capable aircraft in terms of payload and range with the standard models of the DC 10 and L1011. If you want to compare the 333 with any modern airliner it would have to be with the standard 772, they are about the same size and payload.
As for the legs of the 333, KE flew theirs to SYD a few times during the Olympics, a fair hike for a 333,though I doubt they carried much in the way of cargo.
RL
 
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PM
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:26 pm

Quoting Jupiter2 (Reply 38):
Can we please forget about comparing the 763, with the 333 especially. The 333 is a HUGE aircraft compared to the 763, better comparing it with the DC 10 and L1011

You are quite right, of course, and that is how many airlines have used it - Cathay, for example, to replace TriStars and Northwest to replace DC-10s. TWA (RIP) also ordered it as a TriStar replacement and so did Air Canada. The A332 has also filled the niche at times as airlines often don't exactly replace like with like. Swiss, for example, switched an MD-11 on "my" ZRH-NBO-DAR route to an A332. Interestingly, KLM are also rumoured to be about to bring an A332 onto the DAR route - but they're replacing a 763.

But your ssential point is quite correct - the 333 was never (and was never intended to be) a competitor for the 767-300.

An interesting historical footnote: I remember reading in the late 1980s how Airbus were describing the A330 as "the ultimate twin"... "Ultimate"? That was an unnecessary hostage to fortune!
 
michi
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:31 pm

Hi there,

it is possible to order 333 without a center tank. That explains some of the range issues.
The aircraft is lighter without the center tank and you can increase the payload as well, which is an important factor for many operators.

Regards, Michael
 
VHXLR8
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:37 pm

Quoting Jupiter2 (Reply 38):
QF ordered the 333 at the same time as the 332. Originally the order was for 7 332 and 6 333

Sorry dude, the info I was given must have been incorrect regarding QF's A330 orders.

Quoting Jupiter2 (Reply 38):
Can we please forget about comparing the 763, with the 333 especially.

Didn't mean to compare the two. What I'm meaning to say, is that without a truly viable replacement for the 767 300, several airlines have indeed chosen to replace some of (if not all) the 763s with A330s. Some that come to mind are QF, SK, US, AC, GF and to a lessor extent EI.

In a way, I guess you could say we have somewhat the same argument about the two. I never meant to compare the two, but merely state that without a replacement (an aircraft we could in fact compare the 763 to), the A330 has picked up customers that could otherwise have been snared by Boeing.
Cheers mate  Smile
 
jupiter2
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:35 pm

VHXLR8, I was generalising about the comparing of the 330 and the 763, just about everyone does it........ Lord knows why.
Lets face it, there hasn't been a true 763 replacement until now, step forward the 787 !!!
As a side note, QF actually replaced the 742's in the fleet when they got the 330's, sure the 333's are taking over from 763's on international routes, but the only 763's to leave QF have gone to Australian. You can see the affect the 333's are having on the international network though, available seat miles are up, however overall passenger numbers are not, hence the drop in seat load factor. I would suspect this may be offset somewhat by a rise in freight carried, but I doubt this would cover the cost of carrying all those empty seats around.
As for the other airlines mentioned, well SK replaced DC 10's with 763's, a huge step back in capacity, now the 763's are replaced by an aircraft more the size of DC10'S !!. US never had 763's, the biggest they had were 762's, which are still in the fleet, so they created a whole new fleet requirement which the 333's filled, and which coming 332's will better fill.... if they survive. AC are similar to QF in that their 330's have taken over some routes from 763's, however have any 763's left the fleet ?? If anything the 333's were a late replacement for L10's, better suited to the routes than what the 340's are. GF, well they maybe about as close as you are going to get to an airline actually replacing 763's with 330's, although in their case it was with 332's and only a portion of the fleet. I wouldn't even count EI, they barely operated their 763's, the 330's actually replaced 747's.
Of course all of these airlines could have chosen the 777 to have done the same job, GF were actually a launch customer.

Your last statement has a ring of truth to it though, there hasn't been a 767 or A300/310 replacement offered until now, so the airlines picked the best of what was on offer, would the decisions made 5 years ago at airline board meetings be the same today if the current batch of aircraft on offer now were available then ????
VHXLR8, I see you are a flight attendant, in MEL, who do you work for ??? Are you actually a spotter ?? and are you enjoying the use of 09/27 out at Tulla at the moment ??

All the best.

RL
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:23 pm

So guys I assume (and to summarize...) the longest route are:

ICN-PRG w/ KE
SEA-AMS w/ NW

both flow by A330-323X versions (with extra center tank).

I'm really doubting about QF flying the A330-301 from SYD to BOM, and PR with the MNL-HNL.

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
VHXLR8
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:15 pm

Jupiter, yes I'm a MEL based F/A for Qantas.
No, not really a spotter as such; but speaking of 09/27, have been enjoying a few interesting takeoffs and landings due to the crosswinds. Although now that the weather is getting back to normal for this time of year, it's not so bad.
 
trex8
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:07 am

AF is taking A333s this year on top of the A332s and 772ERs they have.

CI has 14 A333 on order (with 2 options) and will lease 2 more from ILFC.

IIRC China Eastern changed a few of their A333 order to A332.
 
Joost
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:40 am

Quoting AerlingusEI521 (Reply 18):
then as the 333 has a fairly short range ( compared to its rivals, ie 762 - 763) can we that it isn't "such a good" aircraft? I am not opening an A vs B debate, since I am an (french) airbus fan and would normally favor Airbus planes.

I don't think one should call the 333 "not such a good" aircraft, as it was clearly designed for it's purpose as a high capacity airliner with an A-market range.

There are many markets where the 333 perfectly suits, range- and demandwise. Think of the Europe - East coast USA & Canada markets, like the transatlantic flights by NW, US, AC, LH and SK 333's. The range is perfect for an FRA-JFK or LHR-YYZ. To the list you can also add many flights in Asia. There is no need for a (more expensive) aircraft with a longer range - like Airbus offering the 343. When your fleet-market combination is shaped in a way that the specific type advantages are higher than fleet flexibility advantages, the 333 is a great choice - explaining the good selling results.

(my first post  Smile)
 
matt
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:45 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 46):
Think of the Europe - East coast USA & Canada markets, like the transatlantic flights by NW, US, AC, LH and SK 333's. The range is perfect for an FRA-JFK or LHR-YYZ.

I would add that the plane is also good for slightly longer flights. Don't forget that AC uses it on the YYC-LHR, YYC-FRA and YVR-LHR flights.
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trex8
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RE: Longest A330-300 Route.

Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:47 am

Checked Airbus website

Guess I was wrong about AF A333s, but JP Fleets had it in the last edition.

As of end of March, Airbus had 286 orders for A332 and 241 for both the A333 and also the A342/3 so the A333 is not doing too badly.

China Eastern has listed 15 A333s and 5 A332s now.