georgiabill
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:35 pm

I was wondering if Aeropostal is planning a fleet renewal antyime soon? Relying on older less fuel efficient fleet must be hampering their ability to compete against companies like Copa,Taca and Lan. With their experience with DC-9's are MD 80's or MD 90's the likely choice for their renewal?
 
B757200
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:58 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:50 am

Well I read somewhere that they are planning to get rid of the DC-9 fleet and replace it with MD-80's. However, I personally don't believe what Aeropostal says until I see it. Take, for example, the 6 Dorniers 328 they say they would get. We're still expecting them to arrive.

In my point of view, Aeropostal is not able to compete against airlines such Georgiabill mentioned, and they won't be unless they make major changes on their fleet, ground service, on-board service, and so on....

Believe it or not, many years ago I heard they wanted to get A318's for their domestic network  rotfl .

I would like to see Taca Venezuela or LAN Venezuela operating. I'm sure Mr. Ramiz and his combo would have to "ponerse las pilas".
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:03 am

New planes in Venezuela have outrageous taxes, thats why airlines are still flying old planes. If the Venezuelan governement does not change this policy, dont expect to see a TACA or LAN in Venezuela, or airlines able to compete with AV, TA, CM, LA, RG....
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:33 am

If a Venezuelan airline (Aeropostal or other) is looking for new planes for the short (domestic and regional) and medium (regional) routes, my guess would be they'll check Embraer. Why? Because there's more likely something could be worked-out between Venezuela and Brazil at the highest government levels.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:51 am

Quoting Georgiabill (Thread starter):
Relying on older less fuel efficient fleet must be hampering their ability to compete against companies like Copa,Taca and Lan.

They don't need that ability given that Aeropostal doesn't compete with any of those airlines directly.

Aeropostal's most significant competitors are AA and AV in their top-two most important interantional destinations: MIA and BOG respectively. With both of them Aeropostal is one step behind.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:52 am

The DC9 are being replaced by MD8x as well as the 727 to the US. That's all. There seem to be no further plans.
Even the plans to replace the MAD codeshare with UX by an own A310 have already been cancelled and the codeshare works again.
I have lost the hope to see a strong Venezuelan carrier compete against Taca, Copa etc.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:30 am

It will be nice to see soon some A318 and A319 flying the Venezuelan flag.

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 5):
I have lost the hope to see a strong Venezuelan carrier compete against Taca, Copa etc.

I respectufully disagree with you. Your country is great [have minerals, a lot of them, petroleum, etc.]. Is a rich country, as well as Brazil, Argentina, Chile... The only big problem [very common in our continent], as long as I see, is the Government. But everything bad [sooner or later] goes to an end.

Don't be negative.

Go Venezuela! Go!
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:52 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):
Embraer. Why? Because there's more likely something could be worked-out between Venezuela and Brazil at the highest government levels.

Very good point here: recently the Venezuelan Government made a substantial order to Embraer's surveilance aircraft.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 6):
Your country is great [have minerals, a lot of them, petroleum, etc.]. Is a rich country, as well as Brazil, Argentina, Chile... The only big problem [very common in our continent], as long as I see, is the Government

The point is: does Venezuela need a flagship carrier?

I dont think we should jump to conclusions and state that the failure of a full-fledged Venezuelan flagship carriers is because of the Government, otherwise you would also need to blame other Governments, namely, Swiss, Italian, Belgium, to name but a few.

Rgs,

[Edited 2005-04-16 21:53:09]
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:11 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 7):
The point is: does Venezuela need a flagship carrier?

"Need" ? Well, of course we don't need a flagship carrier. No country "needs" an airline that is 100% anchored in the country itself.
All you need is a perfect link to reach the country for the proper development of your economy and tourism. And on that point I would say that we can't complain. With some exceptions Venezuela is very well linked to the rest of the world by some good and well known airlines.

But the question is if a better service would bring us more tourists and favor our economy. And here I would definitely say: YES !

And here comes the problem with foreign airlines. They see their own route, the yield and basta.
For Lufhansa the Frankfurt-Caracas route is one of the best in their whole network. Load over 90% and a high yield. And they keep it. What do they care if some tourists prefer to fly somewhere else because flights are cheaper.
We live in a globalized world and each country is competing against the other.

In order to be competitive we need a better airlink. We don't need ONE flagship carrier, we need two that compete against each other.

And Aeropostal has by far the best chances. If they manage to start some new routes (VVI will start in June) such as SJO, PTY, they have a good network to compete on European flights to the region.

Don't forget:

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 6):
Is a rich country, as well as Brazil, Argentina, Chile

Finally:
Thank you TACAA320, finally you are right.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 6):
Go Venezuela! Go!
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:21 am

My understanding was that by now only one DC 9 was left and all the 727 were gone, all replace by MD 8x
 
Tittlemouse
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:36 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:41 am

Hola Chicos!! (y Chicas?!?)

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 4):
Aeropostal's most significant competitors are AA and AV in their top-two most important interantional destinations: MIA and BOG respectively. With both of them Aeropostal is one step behind.

I can't agree - I recently went CCS-BOG. When I went to buy my flight in Caracas I asked about both Avianca and Aeropostal. Aeropostal was much cheaper - only about $US 100 one way!.

At Simon Bolivar everyone was very helpful - yo habla solo un pocito espanyol  dopey . The crew were fantastic - very kind and helped with my arrival card for Colombia. The flight was also great - awesome view of the Carribean just after rotation  smile !

I really enjoyed my Aeropostal experience (nice food!) and would recommend them to all. Hopefully in the future they will become a bit more financially stable and we will see them expand - let me tell you Venezuela is a tourist heaven - te amo Venezuela! - so the demand is there (especially from Europe) when people discover how cool it is.

Aeropostal: Numero uno aerolina en Sudamericana!

Sorry for my bad Spanish  sorry 

 wave 
If our votes really made a difference politicians would not let us have them.
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 10):
I can't agree - I recently went CCS-BOG. When I went to buy my flight in Caracas I asked about both Avianca and Aeropostal. Aeropostal was much cheaper - only about $US 100 one way!.

I very much respect your opinion, and I'm equally glad you had a good experience with Aeropostal.

Your statement, however, is very relative and subject to drastic variations. You should think twice in how much in advance you bought your ticket; possibly AV had already booked most of their seats for the day you picked to travel.

A quick search in the Internet showed fares from USD301 in Aeropostal to USD330 in Avianca for a round trip CCS-BOG-CCS in mid-June [hottest travelling period]. 29 and not 100 dollars of difference.

Yet, many travellers still prefer and are willing to pay the extra-30 dollars for widebody service, and that cannot be offered by Aeropostal, only Avianca.

Also Avianca offers 3 flights, scattered along the whole day, while Aeropostal operates only 2 flights.

But again, very nice you had a pleasant experience with Aeropostal. They've certainly pushed-forward when acquiring these MD-83s.

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 10):
Aeropostal: Numero uno aerolina en Sudamericana!

That's LAN.  liar   Wink




SOUTHAMERICA
 
Tittlemouse
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:36 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:29 am

Hola SOUTHAMERICA!

I booked my CCS-BOG flight two days before traveling. I am sorry that I was not totally clear about the prices. The cost on Aeropostal was about $US100 one way and about $US180 on Avianca - not the difference.

You mention about Avianca being able to offer widebody service but Aeropostal cannot. Do you really think that this makes a difference?. In the end in the airline business everything comes down to ticket cost. You only have to look at the LCC's in Eurpe and US to see that if the price is right people will fly irrespective of the service, seat pitch etc.

My thinking (and I also think many other peoples) is go for the cheapest (flight time is only about 2 hrs) and great service is an added bonus.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 11):
That's LAN.

Hey, it definitley isn't RG - have you been to GRU  crowded  +  banghead 

Vamos Aeropostal!

 wave 
If our votes really made a difference politicians would not let us have them.
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:43 am

Tim,

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 12):
I booked my CCS-BOG flight two days before traveling. I am sorry that I was not totally clear about the prices. The cost on Aeropostal was about $US100 one way and about $US180 on Avianca - not the difference.

That explains most of the situation. Normally one-way tickets are proportionally more expensive than round-trips. If you add the fact that you booked only 2 days in advance, you should be grateful you found an affordable fare. As I said, possibly Avianca had booked most of their seats, while Aeropostal hadn't. Still, Avianca has reported Caracas to be one of their top-yielding destinations, and they know people is willing to pay for those seats.

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 12):
You mention about Avianca being able to offer widebody service but Aeropostal cannot. Do you really think that this makes a difference?

For me it doesn't. For you it doesn't. But for some people it does.

Avianca has a tradition of flying to Caracas, much older than that of Aeropostal. They have their customer base built, and some travellers, maybe businessmen, are extremely picky service-wise. There is a huge difference between the Business Class product offered in the MDs to the one provided in the 767s. The 767 service to Caracas, apart from fitting very nicely in Avianca's rotations, is very well-suited for the market, and has been operating in such way for a long time now.

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 12):
You only have to look at the LCC's in Eurpe and US to see that if the price is right people will fly irrespective of the service, seat pitch etc.

Still, customers and mentalities are very different Tim. But I get your point.




SOUTHAMERICA
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 13):
the Business Class product offered in the MDs

AV has a C-Class in the MDs, VH doesn't !

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 10):
Aeropostal: Numero uno aerolina en Sudamericana!

It's a loooong way to reach that ! Have you ever flown LAN ? But after some big trouble and legal problems because of the poor service, delays and baggage losses a lot has been done at Aeropostal. And if they are fur sure not Southamericas No.1 they are definetly Venezuelas No. 1. (There are 6 Jet-operating airlines here).

Apart of all this, it's for sure that VH has to renew their fleet. Although the problem of high taxes remains, RCS763AV already mentioned that.

And it might be that the Embraers are nice aircraft, but they are useless e.g. for CCS-LIM, CCS-MIA. They could be used on some low demand domestic routes such as CCS-SVZ or CCS-CUM.
 
Tittlemouse
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:36 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:38 am

Hola Chiguire!

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 14):
Have you ever flown LAN ?

No I haven't flown LAN - but I did see one of their 767's when I was in Quito - LAN have one of the nicest liveries anyway - looks great on the 767.

My three Southamerican experiences were:

CCS-BOG with Aeropostal
BOG-OUI with Avianca
GRU-LHR with Varig.

I was really really disappointed with RG. Their MD-11's need a cabin refurbishment quick.

Avianca was very pleasant too - especially the F/A's  yes 

I think it is a real shame that the Southamerican airlines are not so well regarded. There is such potential especially in the North (Venezuala, Colombia and Ecuador). I guess airline stability and political/economical stability go hand-in-hand. If you look at the major Asian airlines, do you think S. America is capable of becoming something similar - I really do.

One thing that all the S.American nations need to look at is the issue of departure taxes. Coming from Europe it is difficult to imagine such a thing having to be paid cash at check-in. This is especially true for international travellers who do not keep large amounts of dollars/pesos/bolivianos spare beacuse they are unaccustomed to such practices - I was caught out myself in CCS. $US 46 for a ticket costing only $US100 is hard to take. This must have an effect on Venezuelans/Colombians/Ecuadorians travelling between the countries - especially families.

I would really like to know what you guys think about the way forward for Avianca, Aeropostal and TAME.

The market is there - you just need to make it accesible

 wave 
If our votes really made a difference politicians would not let us have them.
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:52 am

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 14):
And it might be that the Embraers are nice aircraft, but they are useless e.g. for CCS-LIM, CCS-MIA. They could be used on some low demand domestic routes such as CCS-SVZ or CCS-CUM.

I wrote it looks like Embraer is the most accesible aircraft to buy or lease for a Venezuelan airline, this should weight something. I would disagree that those planes aren't OK for MIA or LIM services, they've the range for MIA and LIM. The problem with E170/190 on those routes for example will be that the airline using them (VH ?) must increase frecuency in order to offer the same number of seats it offers rightnow. I'm in favor of frecuency for short and medium routes on E170/190, B737-200/500/600, A318 type planes instead of "the daily flight" with "big" aircraft. I'm sure with Embraer more venezuelan main airports would have non-stop or direct flights to more cities in Florida.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:16 am

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 14):
And it might be that the Embraers are nice aircraft, but they are useless e.g. for CCS-LIM, CCS-MIA. They could be used on some low demand domestic routes such as CCS-SVZ or CCS-CUM.

Where the A318,319 & 320 family seems to fit just perfect!
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:11 am

Good to have this thread, it's been a while since we had an interesting Venezuelan thread like this one.
Ok now let's start replying  Smile

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 10):
At Simon Bolivar everyone was very helpful - yo habla solo un pocito espanyol

That's what I call Venezuelan hospitality  Smile

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 10):
he crew were fantastic - very kind and helped with my arrival card for Colombia.

Aeropostal's crews are amazing, at least the ones that I've flown with.... I had the chance to visit the cockpit of a DC9-51 in flight while flying Punta Cana- Caracas back in Aug 2003. It was my best aviation experience ever, watching live action in the cockpit, seeing the instruments in the cockpit and listening to ATC while approach to CCS. I made a trip report if you wanna check it out:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/40558

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 10):
let me tell you Venezuela is a tourist heaven - te amo Venezuela!

It is, but regretfully the people that have ruled this country haven't taken advantage of our tourism potential which remains undeveloped.

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 10):

Aeropostal: Numero uno aerolina en Sudamericana!

Someday... someday...

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 11):
Your statement, however, is very relative and subject to drastic variations. You should think twice in how much in advance you bought your ticket; possibly AV had already booked most of their seats for the day you picked to travel.

I flew AV for a daytrip to BOG last week. Took the first morning flight CCS-BOG and then took the last flight BOG-CCS departing at 9pm. Both planes were MD80s and were half empty, I had a row for myself. ( I think the 767s operate the afternoon flight)

Why did I flew AV? well, I didn't pay for my ticket... it was paid by my dad's company which has some kind of discounted fares agreement with AV. If I had to pay for my ticket I would've flown VH.

Service in AV was good and what was also good was that I was able to have those miles credited to my Delta Skymiles account Smile

Here's my boarding pass...


Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 15):
My three Southamerican experiences were:

CCS-BOG with Aeropostal
BOG-OUI with Avianca
GRU-LHR with Varig.

May I ask how did you get to CCS? which airline?

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 15):
I think it is a real shame that the Southamerican airlines are not so well regarded. There is such potential especially in the North (Venezuala, Colombia and Ecuador)

Yes there is... we even have an Open Skies Agreement thanks to the Andean Community, yet many secondary markets between our countries remain unserviced.  Sad

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 15):
I was caught out myself in CCS. $US 46 for a ticket costing only $US100 is hard to take. This must have an effect on Venezuelans/Colombians/Ecuadorians travelling between the countries - especially families.

I completely symphatize with you, CCS's departure taxes are OUTRAGEOUS!!! I think it is because of the remodeling works that have been taking place in CCS since 2000. I hope that when they get done late this year, departure taxes will drop (wishfull dreaming).
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:22 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 11):
Also Avianca offers 3 flights, scattered along the whole day, while Aeropostal operates only 2 flights.

Aeropostal have been operating 3x daily since January.

There is a nice article on eltiempo (sorry only spanish) about the potential Colombia has and how international airline groups are already seeing it:

http://eltiempo.terra.com.co/hist_im...st/2005-04-15/index_HISTORICO.html
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:16 pm

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 14):
AV has a C-Class in the MDs, VH doesn't !

Indeed, I was precisely referring to AV's business class in the MD-83 and how it compares with their own Business Class but on the 767s.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 18):

Luis, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm glad AV satisfied your expectations, even if you didn't want to try on them. Shame on you for not giving us a chance.  no 

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
Aeropostal have been operating 3x daily since January.

No.  talktothehand 

Aeropostal's third daily service was well-announce at the beginning of the year, but it apparently never took place.

Currently, they are still operating the same two daily flights [except sundays - only one] VH931/932 and VH933/934, as usual.




SOUTHAMERICA
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:26 pm

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 20):
Luis, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm glad AV satisfied your expectations, even if you didn't want to try on them. Shame on you for not giving us a chance.

It's not because VH is Venezuelan and AV is Colombian... I just said that if I had to buy the ticket from my own pocket I would go for the cheapest fare no matter if the airline is Colombian, Venezuelan or Nepalese. Since AV is usually more expensive that's why I would pick VH, but if the price difference is too small I will pick AV to get the miles in my Delta account. Also a decade's long of good experiences with VH have gained my loyalty. I even have World Air Routes Aeropostal's DVD  Smile

Long live VH and AV !


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kazim Alikhan - t.dot photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fabio Laranjeira

 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:44 pm

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 14):
AV has a C-Class in the MDs, VH doesn't

VH does not have C on theirs MDs? I am realy surprised, especially taking account of a market profile such as the one in Venezuela.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 18):
Service in AV was good and what was also good was that I was able to have those miles credited to my Delta Skymiles account

Related to this point: why did AV leave GlobalPass? Now if you are KL FF you cannot get miles with AV anymore, only with VH, JJ and TA in South America.

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 10):
Aeropostal: Numero uno aerolina en Sudamericana!

RG, no question about it. I am not talking about quality (in which we could consider much smaller airlines such as JJ and LA), everybody knows how RG's service is going downhill. BTW, RG is using the B777 to CCS, and took delivery of its 8th B777. I also agree that their MD-11s are horrible and should be phased out quickly - something they are doing.

Still under this topic: JJ is seriously considering starting flights ASU-GRU-CCS A320 by the end of the year - expect an official announcement in a few weeks.

Rgs,
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:27 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):
ASU-GRU-CCS A320

Do you thing an A320 can compete against a T7 with PTV etc. ?
And why do they want to operate that strange routing ? They already have services (TAM Mercosur) ASU-GRU. Why don't they simply fly GRU-CCS and let the ASU passengers connect in GRU ?

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):
VH does not have C on theirs MDs? I am really surprised, especially taking account of a market profile such as the one in Venezuela.

You are completely right. The MD are even configured with C-Class ! The reason that they have no C at the moment is because they are "creating" a "new" business service at the moment. In the past only the MIA and some BOG flights had a Business. Now, as they have six MD8x all configured with C, they can offer UIO, LIM, GYE, BOG, AUA, SDQ etc.
This covers a lot more routes and they took the chance to renew the product. So we are waiting every day for the announcement of that.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):
why did AV leave GlobalPass?

Simple: they wanted to do their own thing and get rid of the miles collected on other carriers. From one day to another they didn't accept them anymore.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 21):
I even have World Air Routes Aeropostal's DVD

So do I ! And I can definitely recommend that DVD to all fans of Venezuela, Aeropostal and/or the DC9. Very nice coverage of Margarita, the Andes and the maintenance base of VH !  cool 
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:00 pm

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 23):
Do you thing an A320 can compete against a T7 with PTV etc. ?

I am not sure whether they would use the A320 or A330. [As of Jun/05, JJ will replace the A320 with the A330 on the route GRU-SCL].

RG started to deploy the B777 to CCS exactly because JJ was seriously taking into account opening a new route to CCS. Only because of this fact RG is currently using the B777 to CCS, otherwise they would still be using the B763/MD-11. By using its top product to CCS, RG expects to protect its turf and "scare away" any possible competition on this very lucrative route.

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 23):
And why do they want to operate that strange routing ? They already have services (TAM Mercosur) ASU-GRU. Why don't they simply fly GRU-CCS and let the ASU passengers connect in GRU ?

The route is not strange, because the flight would be operated by TAM Mercosur/PZ. The flight routing would be ASU-GRU-CCS, PZ has traffic rights on all legs. This would be the first A320 of PZ and it would, therefore, be used on this new route and replace the current F-100 in one of the daily ASU-GRU.

You could look the other way around, CCS-GRU with a continuation leg to ASU so as to ensure the full use of the A320.

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 23):
The reason that they have no C at the moment is because they are "creating" a "new" business service at the moment

Tks for the info. Any info on possible date/timtable for the new C class?

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 23):
From one day to another they didn't accept them anymore.

Indeed, AV left GlobalPass rather abruptly...without much notice in advance. I am still not sure whether this was a wise decision...I assume AV still has bilateral partnerships with a number of carriers.

Rgs,
 
Fabi727
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:46 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:21 pm

I flew Avianca in December Caracas to Bogota and found the food service had changed since 2002 when on the midday flight we got a full lunch service on a 757 .This time on a Md83 only a kind of taco with chicken was served.On the onward flight to Panama City taco was served both ways. On the return to Caracas at 9pm there was previously a full dinner service but again it was taco.The cabin crew, though was helpful and pleasant and the cabin was in good condition( 757 of Icelandair on the way back). It was completely full which explains why at check-in we were asked if we would like to fly next day. To compensate they offered 18 people hotel accommodation with all meals included and a return ticket on the same route to be used within a year. As there were seven in our group with different onward destinations,we did not take the offer particularly as I was flying next day to London with Lufthansa.
The good thing with Avianca is that all taxes are included so there is no hassle with extra costs at the airport, unlike Aeropostal where taxes have to be paid at the airport.
 
soamsky
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:41 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:43 pm

I'm flying Miami Venezuela with Aeropostal

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 18):
I completely symphatize with you, CCS's departure taxes are OUTRAGEOUS!!! I think it is because of the remodeling works that have been taking place in CCS since 2000. I hope that when they get done late this year, departure taxes will drop (wishfull dreaming).

One question. Does the $46 tax amount apply only to CCS or to any other airport in Venezuela? I mean, would that tax amount be any cheaper at another airport?

I'm flying Aeropostal next month to Valencia, so that information will be helpful.

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 15):
One thing that all the S.American nations need to look at is the issue of departure taxes

I agree with you. I read a trip report by an European who visited different countries in Latinamerica, some just for one day, and was taxed every single time. He called that "the extortion taxes".

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 15):
This must have an effect on Venezuelans/Colombians/Ecuadorians travelling between the countries - especially families.

Yes, it does. That is way air travel is limited to a few in Latinamerica.

Regards
Soar the blue of the South American Sky
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:55 pm

Quoting SoAmSky (Reply 27):
Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 15):
This must have an effect on Venezuelans/Colombians/Ecuadorians travelling between the countries - especially families.

Yes, it does. That is way air travel is limited to a few in Latinamerica.

LatinAmerica is the region of the world where the air travel is most expensive.
For example how can it be that a BOG-CCS tickets costs nearly 3 month salarys (colombian minimum salery)?

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:02 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 28):
For example how can it be that a BOG-CCS tickets costs nearly 3 month salarys

Well, I guess it has to. The costs of aircraft leasing, fuel etc. are not determined by the minimum salary in these countries. I Africa it's worse. See someone in D.R. Congo with an ANNUAL salary of around 100US$ to pay a ticket ?!

Quoting SoAmSky (Reply 27):
I'm flying Aeropostal next month to Valencia, so that information will be helpful.

Sorry, but it is the same tax as in CCS.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:10 pm

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 29):
Well, I guess it has to. The costs of aircraft leasing, fuel etc. are not determined by the minimum salary in these countries. I Africa it's worse. See someone in D.R. Congo with an ANNUAL salary of around 100US$ to pay a ticket ?!

yes you are correct with the costs, but for a short flight BOG-CCS and back it is totally overpriced a ticket for 250 USD...in europe you can go with this money without a problem on 3 hours flights, and the costs are even much more higher....and yes in some parts of africa the situation is even ****.

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:31 pm

Avianca, if you compare the lowest VH-fare CCS-BOG it's 188 Euro return excluding taxes. The lowest V0-fare is around 120 Euro.
Now it might be, that you could get a flight between FRA and LON for around 90 Euro or with a low cost from HHN for even less.
But please also compare the rules. The VH-fare has no Sunday-rule ! Try that on a legacy carrier in Europe. I flew FRA-VIE with LH for 800 Euro plus taxes. And that's only 1 hour !

I would not say that the fares in Southamerica are higher. Even the taxes are not the problem in my opinion.
Take a HAM-FRA-NYC with LH: they charge you 140 Euro ! That's 175 bucks !
Take a CCS-NYC. Here it's "only" 134 Euro including the silly departure tax in CCS.
Oh, and the fuel surcharge that LH includes in the "tax".

But to come back to the topic.
At least you are right if you say that it's not cheaper as in Europe. But then we have to ask why the fleets in Venezuela are that old ! It's only because of the government ?
I am not sure. The crazy ill guy is now there since about 6 years. The planes are not less than 20years old. What was before Hugo ?
Was the tax situation the same with Mr. Caldera ?
I think that the taxes are only one of the reasons. The bad management is another, the severe competition on domestic routes (where can you get a 1hour domestic flight for such prices ?) is another.
 
Tittlemouse
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:36 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:06 pm

Hola Chicos!

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 18):
Good to have this thread, it's been a while since we had an interesting Venezuelan thread like this one

Hey that is totally right. I get abit bored with A v B, A380 v B747, Europe v US. Its totally cool that I can speak to you guys about something really different - not just UA,DL,CO,AA........  faint 

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 18):
May I ask how did you get to CCS? which airline?

I rode the bus from Cartegena - it was 20 hours  tired  but I got to see loads of beautiful Colombian/Venezuelan countryside (and Maracaibo).

One thing I forgot to mention was how sad it is that BA have withdrawn from CCS and BOG. Two great cities like that should definitely be served - such a pity that money dtermines everything - what about the romance of being able to board at LHR and reappear in two of the coolest cities ever? Hopefully they will be served again soon.

 wave 

BTW: When I write one more post I can add all my new S.American "amigos" to my respected user list - I don't have any at the moment  bigthumbsup 
If our votes really made a difference politicians would not let us have them.
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:01 am

As this is a threat about Aeropostal fleet renewal, we should maybe not forget that this was already started in 1999 but only lasted about one year:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Howard Chaloner
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Javier Rodriguez - Iberian Spotters



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Toni Marimon
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Pellaton

 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:44 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 21):

OK Luis, thanks for clarifying. I totally get your point.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):
Still under this topic: JJ is seriously considering starting flights ASU-GRU-CCS A320 by the end of the year - expect an official announcement in a few weeks.

Wouldn't it be an A319 or A330 instead, Hardi? I believe it would be quite a task for the A320 to reach CCS from GRU without penalizations of any sort.

Quoting Fabi727 (Reply 25):

Thanks Fabio for sharing your experience in Avianca. Indeed, the company's service has made drastic variations in the recent past, moving towards lowering costs.

Just a year ago, AV was serving full meals in most domestic flights and in all international legs. Currently, onboard a national flight you won't be served anything larger than a non-alcoholic drink and a small package of peanuts, maybe.

I would guess that flights to CCS, PTY, UIO and GYE, which are considered in the same level as domestic flights, would have seen the same measures taking place. That's why it's rather surprising to hear that you were served a decent meal on your flights.

It's interesting also to hear that your flight on the wet-leased Icelandair 757 was nice. The crew was non-colombian non-Avianca, and yet they kept the company image clean on the 2 months they operated, according to experiences I've heard.





Quoting Chiguire (Reply 33):
As this is a threat about Aeropostal fleet renewal, we should maybe not forget that this was already started in 1999 but only lasted about one year

How could we forget. In June of 2000 I made a quick trip to Miami [MDE-MIA] with ACES. Back then, VX and VH shared neighboring gates in Terminal A. When we arrived, our A320 parked in one of the gates, right besides a VH A320, and a couple of minutes later another VX A320 arrived from BOG, and parked at the other side of the VH A320, which remained in the middle. It was a site that caught my attention and will always remember it. VX's and VH's A320s now long-extinct.




SOUTHAMERICA
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:45 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 34):
Just a year ago, AV was serving full meals in most domestic flights and in all international legs.

that is not correct SOUTHAMERICA, it´s years ago that AV was serving full meals in domestic flights, for example on domestic flights what is used back in 91 they didn´t served full meals, just a sandwich or somthing like this. Only domestic flight where they served full meals what I can remember were the SanAndres mainland flights.

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:53 am

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 32):
I rode the bus from Cartegena - it was 20 hours tired but I got to see loads of beautiful Colombian/Venezuelan countryside (and Maracaibo).

:O that's a long long trip.

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 32):
One thing I forgot to mention was how sad it is that BA have withdrawn from CCS and BOG. Two great cities like that should definitely be served - such a pity that money dtermines everything - what about the romance of being able to board at LHR and reappear in two of the coolest cities ever? Hopefully they will be served again soon.

BA is surely missed down here  Sad

Quoting Tittlemouse (Reply 32):
BTW: When I write one more post I can add all my new S.American "amigos" to my respected user list - I don't have any at the moment bigthumbsup

Welcome to my list  Smile
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:38 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 34):
Wouldn't it be an A319 or A330 instead, Hardi?

You are correct. I am not 100% sure of the equipment to be used. I would say the A319 has more chances to be used in this case and taking into o the market profile. However, as pointed out before, it will be quite a challenge to compete with RG B777 on this market.

Rgs,
 
georgiabill
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:38 am

Where did Aeropostal acquire their MD80's? Are they purchased or leased?
 
CAL
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:33 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:57 am

They kinda remind me of Continental MD-80's look at the colors below the windows. Same continental gray
CAL........Continental Airlines....... Work Hard, Fly Right
 
mia
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:40 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:05 am

I flew Aeropostal during the Christmas season and I am nothing but appalled to how low they have gone. The employees are rude and incompetent, the food is edible but nothing special (unlike the old Avensa 'food'). It took them 5 days to deliver me my bag that they lost. I only fly Aeropostal because it is the cheapest and I need to save money and whenver I have the chance I fly LAN (only Monday, Friday service). Aeropostal started off so well then it just went to crap. I flew with them to HAV at the beginning of their operations and the trip was perfect. I flew with them last year and the plan was falling apart, and the employees treated those that were Cuban with complete and utter disrespect.

Not to down VH, the same has happened to me with other airlines, but still; it is wrong to msitreat people because of their nationality.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:24 am

Quoting MIA" class=quote target=_blank>MIA (Reply 39):
I flew Aeropostal during the Christmas season and I am nothing but appalled to how low they have gone. The employees are rude and incompetent, the food is edible but nothing special (unlike the old Avensa 'food'). It took them 5 days to deliver me my bag that they lost. I only fly Aeropostal because it is the cheapest and I need to save money and whenver I have the chance I fly LAN (only Monday, Friday service).

I tend to disagree. My only complain against VH is that they are out of schedule quite often. I also flew the route MIA/CCS/MIA two or three times and the service is great [far ahead of any U.S. carrier]. No regrets at all against the flight crew.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:31 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 34):
it´s years ago that AV was serving full meals in domestic flights, for example on domestic flights what is used back in 91 they didn´t served full meals, just a sandwich or somthing like this.

That's correct, I missused the expression "full meals"; but until one year ago they served quite good snacks, even on the BOG-MDE and BOG-CLO shuttles. That's history now.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
Celticmanx
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2001 5:06 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:55 am

VH is slowly replacing their DC9 fleet for MD81-82.
As a result they increased capacity.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:20 am

AV does not serve meals anymore on domestic flights, only if very early morning or late night flights. But, they serve their wonderful achiras which are already famous in Bogota for their uncomparable flavor. U gotta taste them.

One of VH´s CCS-BOG flights continues to UIO right???
 
georgiabill
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:22 am

But where are they buying their planes from?
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:29 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 43):
But, they serve their wonderful achiras which are already famous in Bogota for their uncomparable flavor. U gotta taste them.

The achiras serving are variable. In occasions they serve them, but on other flights they simply serve the traditional peanuts. I suppose they are more common in flights out of BOG...



SOUTHAMERICA
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:42 pm

Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 44):
But where are they buying their planes from?

The "new" MD-80s started to arrive to CCS on Dec 2003. By mid January 2004, YV-01C was certified and ready to fly. Shortly after, YV-02C joined the fleet. So did 03C.

YV-04C arrived on October 2004 followed by YV-05C.

This adds up to 5 new MD80s in Aeropostal's fleet.

Origins:

YV01C and YV-02C ----> Aeromexico. Both are leased.

YV-03C ---> Alaska Airlines. Leased. Interesting note: this MD was line number 1083 which was delivered brand new to VIASA as YV-158C on Aug 1982. Finally this bird has returned to its homeland  Smile

YV-04C --> former Continental and US Justice Department plane. Also leased

YV-05C --> former Finnair OH-LMW. Leased

YV-06C (coming soon) --> former Finnair OH-LMH. Leased.
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:00 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 43):

One of VH´s CCS-BOG flights continues to UIO right???

No. The former routing of the Andean routes was:
CCS-BOG-UIO
CCS-GYE-LIM
it changed to:
CCS-BOG
CCS-LIM
CCS-GYE-UIO
The CCS-LIM will now be extended to CCS-LIM-VVI in July.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 46):
YV-06C (coming soon) --> former Finnair OH-LMH. Leased.

As far as I know this bird is already there.

And don't forget that there are about 6 more to come for Aerohonduras and Aeropostal Costa Rica.
 
User avatar
tavong
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2001 1:59 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:18 pm

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 45):
The achiras serving are variable. In occasions they serve them, but on other flights they simply serve the traditional peanuts. I suppose they are more common in flights out of BOG...

ACK!!!  crazy  Traditional Penuts  crazy , I prefer the Achiras all the way Big grin

Sorry Fede, i couldn't hold myself  swirl 

Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot more happy.
 
HR001
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Aeropostal Future Fleet Renewal?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:56 am

Quoting Bogota (Reply 9):
My understanding was that by now only one DC 9 was left and all the 727 were gone, all replace by MD 8x

Who is operating the MD-80's to MIA if the 727's have been replaced??

HR001