707CMF
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First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:47 pm

Not a take off yet, but she has rotated. Yayers.

Here's another colibri exclusive pic :

http://poupov.free.fr/rotation.jpg

Cheers,

707
 
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casinterest
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:50 pm

Wow , is it me? The Camera Angle? The scope of size?
But wow, doesn't it look like the tail has very little margin of error?
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INNflight
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:50 pm

Aaah get that machine up into the air!!! NOW!  hyper   hissyfit 

Thx for the photo, Antoine!
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:53 pm

It looks like a tail strike test due to the AoA (Angle of Attack)
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VirginFSM
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:57 pm

Amazing! Some of the main gear has unstuck too! So near.

VirginFSM
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LHB727230Adv
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:59 pm

So near yet so far....
Can't wait to see it fly on Friday.

Cheers,
Alex  bigthumbsup 
 
VirginFSM
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:02 pm

Spruce Goose took off on a taxi test:

747 is thought to have done the same according to a video I have seen:

Now the A380 almost does it too!

Do you think the pilots wanted to "accidentally" take off too?  Wink

VirginFSM
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N79969
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:04 pm

It's flying on Friday? I did not know the date has been set. Look forward to seeing it go.

It must be really frustrating to be the test crew to get that close to a takeoff and then having to pull the throttle and apply the brakes.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:08 pm

How long is the runway,where these tests are being carried out.
regds
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knoxibus
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:09 pm

Everybody here believes it's a fake.

The end of this runway is pretty close (the aircraft is already in front of the Clement Ader final assembly line), and its attitude (incidence) is quite high.

It must have performed a quick and tough stop.

Secondly, a friend expert at photoshop said that the luminosity around the cockpit is too different from the rear part of the aircraft, which could imply a fake.

I personnally find it weird to have such a test prior to first flight (high incidence, in comparison with a simple nose landing gear small lift-off which is more usual).

Also, I find the wing landing gear a bit too much in the same line of the fuselage (axis wise) whereas it just lifted off the ground.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: also it rained this night in TLS, and still no water jets?

[Edited 2005-04-18 16:10:34]
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teamregal
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:10 pm

What a tease! I can't wait for the real deal! crossfingers 


REGAL
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keta
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:11 pm

Awesome! Almost in the air... can't wait till Friday!!  hissyfit 
Thanks for posting!  bigthumbsup 
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sacflyer
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:14 pm

It just doesn't look weird anymore!

I'm starting to like this plane more and more.
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Airplanepics
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:15 pm

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 9):
Everybody here believes it's a fake.

The end of this runway is pretty close (the aircraft is already in front of the Clement Ader final assembly line), and its attitude (incidence) is quite high.

It must have performed a quick and tough stop.

Secondly, a friend expert at photoshop said that the luminosity around the cockpit is too different from the rear part of the aircraft, which could imply a fake.

I personnally find it weird to have such a test prior to first flight (high incidence, in comparison with a simple nose landing gear small lift-off which is more usual).

Also, I find the wing landing gear a bit too much in the same line of the fuselage (axis wise) whereas it just lifted off the ground.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: also it rained this night in TLS, and still no water jets?

There's always one.....  banghead 
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richierich
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:19 pm

I have no reason to think its a fake. There is nothing obvious about the picture that would make one think that, other than the location on the runway which is something I admit knowing nothing about at TLS.

WE all know that the first flight is probably only a week or two, if not a few days, away. So it is quite conceivable to me that the aircraft is doing performance tests on the runway. I don't know about a full tail strike test though, as it is my understanding that this test could cause a lot of damage. This will probably not be done until well after first flight (as part of the normal new aircraft certification).

Just my 0.0154 Euros (at current conversion rates).
None shall pass!!!!
 
flyabunch
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:25 pm

I agree with Knoxibus, I think it is fake. First, I don't think high incidence tests are done to there is more flight data. Second, I think the undercarriage looks funny. And third, I don't see a skid plate, a large block of wood or something else to drag on the ground and prevent damage as they drag down the runway.

If its real, its a great shot. If its fake, what a tease! I cannot believe that Airbus would take this kind of a chance with a plan that has not even flown yet...especially one with so much riding on its success.

Mike
 
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:30 pm

Also noting how it is fake. Look at the outer main landing gear that is off the ground. That gear is supposed to (ARTICULATE) or hang when off the ground. Notice how it is still laying flat. This is the same outer main gear design as the A330/340 and it is not doing it.

Sorry, I don't buy it.


Aaron
 
knoxibus
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:41 pm

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 13):
There's always one.....

Well what do you want me to say, there's is always one that has the flight test line planning for the whole week (RTO + 5th engine run tomorrow, RTO again Friday, preparation for first flight Saturday).

There's always some to not see any water being washed from the runway, there's always some to agree with me that the landing gear looks weird.

I will receive tomorrow the official newletter from the test line (everyday), and I will confirm it to you.

Wait and see...
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RayChuang
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:41 pm

The picture is fake for a number of reasons:

1. You'll see a trail of sparks behind the fuselage during a Vmo (Velocity minimum unstick) test, mostly because they put a wooden "sled" on the back of the rear fuselage so such a test can be conducted safely.

2. Airbus has only done a relatively small number of runway RTO tests so they want to carefully protect the plane.

3. If the test was done on a wet runway you'll see the water spray from the engines.
 
NAV20
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:43 pm

This thing keeps us all guessing, don't it?  

My first thought was ,'Great, it won't be long now, we'll all finally see how this thing flies, which is what counts.'

But then I thought that the rotation angle was just too high, that the undercarriage looked plain wrong - and also that the camera must have had a helluva fast shutter speed, no evidence of panning, like blurring of the background.

Four possibilities:-

1. It's straight - just part of the testing procedure, and a 'miracle' shot for the lucky photographer.

2. It's straight - but evidence of a near-accident, something going wrong on test, 'pilot error' - in which case the photographer is even luckier.

3. It's an unofficial fake, done with models and 'montage'. In which connection, 707CMF, did someone give you the photograph, or are they being sold? I expect that there's a big market for A380 photographs at the moment.

4. It's an 'official' fake - taken and leaked on behalf of Airbus. I can't quite think my way round the implications of that yet.......

[Edited 2005-04-18 16:53:52]
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manzoori
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:51 pm

LOL! Nice one Antoine!

I just passed it round the guys at work and several of them rang me with words to the effect of " Hang on!!! It's not supposed to fast Taxi till Wednesday!"

Cheers!

Rez
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keta
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:53 pm

It could be, but I don't think it's a fake. I don't know how the test are programmed, but you're right I thought that VMU test were performed well after the first flight. It's maybe that the pilot pulled from the stick too much...

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 15):
And third, I don't see a skid plate, a large block of wood or something else to drag on the ground and prevent damage as they drag down the runway

Are you referring to the tailbumper? The A380 has not steel beams outside the aircraft to protect it. Look here: http://www.airbus.com/A380/ArticleDe...ail.aspx?CatID=DESIGN&SCatId=TESTS

"As the largest civilian aircraft, the A380 was unable to adopt the traditional form of tailbumper system – essentially involving reinforcing the interior and exterior of the tail cone with steel beams - so an alternative solution had to be found"

http://www.airbus.com/A380/Images/MME/1741.JPG



[Edited 2005-04-18 17:03:49]
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norcal
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:57 pm

They are practicing for a soft field takeoff  Wink
 
Udo
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:57 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 19):
2. It's straight - but evidence of a near-accident, something going wrong on test, 'pilot error' - in which case the photographer is even luckier.

Great theory!  bigthumbsup 

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 19):
4. It's an 'official' fake - taken and leaked on behalf of Airbus. I can't quite think my way round the implications of that yet.......

Even greater!  bigthumbsup   rotfl 

Regards
Udo
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Starlionblue
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 1):
But wow, doesn't it look like the tail has very little margin of error?



Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
It looks like a tail strike test due to the AoA (Angle of Attack)



Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 15):
And third, I don't see a skid plate, a large block of wood or something else to drag on the ground and prevent damage as they drag down the runway.

I'm assuming that the 380 has the same over-rotation protection as the 345 and the 346, so no traditional tail bumper should be needed.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
PADSpot
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting VirginFSM (Reply 6):
Do you think the pilots wanted to "accidentally" take off too? Wink

However ... whether it is a fake or not, I guess it is more challenging to a pilot to stay on the ground in such a situation than really to take off. I guess the pilots take the challenge and do as they are told, hence leaving the plane on the ground.

Is such a test conducted in a very light configuration so that runway length is sufficient to come to full stop after the test safely? AFAIK the runway at TLS is not extremely long ... something around 3500m.

Jan
 
mauriceb
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:12 am

think it isn't fake, look close at the tail and you will see it has the tail bumper, wich is just installed i guess, presuming there aren't any photos yet of it in the database WITH the tail bumper, wich could be used for photoshop on this photo

[Edited 2005-04-18 17:12:54]
 
gigneil
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:18 am

Ugh. People, please.

Knoxibus works for Airbus. He knows that its a fake. He's the only person here that would. Listen to him, and stop arguing.

This is the kind of shit that drives the people with actual knowledge away from the site.

N
 
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casinterest
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:24 am

I am going to have to side with the itsa fake club.
There is no evidence in that picture of the Jet Wash that should be pouring out of those engines and causing heat waves in the picture. Also the more I look at the pic of the plane vs the surroundings, the faker it looks.
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707CMF
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:29 am

Okay guys, update on this picture.

I don't know that it is a fake or not. I checked my source, it appears this picture is less reliable than the previous one I sent here - the one of the RTO I sent last week. In which case I knew personnaly the photographer, while here, I don't know who he/she is.

Might indeed be a fake, and my apologies if this is the case.

I hope it is not the case though.

Cheers,

707
 
WindowSeat
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:34 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27):
Ugh. People, please.

Knoxibus works for Airbus. He knows that its a fake. He's the only person here that would. Listen to him, and stop arguing.

This is the kind of shit that drives the people with actual knowledge away from the site.

I second that. Patience people! We'll all find out in a week's time.
I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:35 am

Some of you people are incredibly gullable. With the first flight so close, why would "they" bother to put out a fake of the A380 "nearly" taking off,. Wouldn't it be more fun to put out a fake of a first flight?

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 9):
The end of this runway is pretty close (the aircraft is already in front of the Clement Ader final assembly line), and its attitude (incidence) is quite high.

It must have performed a quick and tough stop.

It's a big yet very empty bird. Those four big engines would have no problem stopping even this big beast quickly.

Quoting N737MC (Reply 16):
Also noting how it is fake. Look at the outer main landing gear that is off the ground. That gear is supposed to (ARTICULATE) or hang when off the ground. Notice how it is still laying flat.

Ever think that maybe this is designed to do it this way?

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 18):
1. You'll see a trail of sparks behind the fuselage during a Vmo (Velocity minimum unstick) test, mostly because they put a wooden "sled" on the back of the rear fuselage so such a test can be conducted safely.

When these tests are conducted, they will use a lot more real estate than that. Another reason to disprove this theory is that after the tail has been dragged for the test, the aircraft takes off. It's the minimum takeoff speed test.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 18):
2. Airbus has only done a relatively small number of runway RTO tests so they want to carefully protect the plane.

Aircraft don't rotate on a rejected takoff tests.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 18):
3. If the test was done on a wet runway you'll see the water spray from the engines.

True. But in the foreground, the pavement is damp, not wet. Also, I see no idication whatsoever so far in this post as to when this picture was taken.

The only thing that I will point out that makes it unusual is something others have noted also. That is a rather severe angle of attack just to get the nose up.

[Edited 2005-04-18 17:39:37]
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Mark_D.
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:36 am

It does look fake (really daring angle of attack, and actually if it were real I figure it would be indicative of a problem, mostly of not being at the thing's de-facto VR when they rotated. Otherwise at that angle it should be well off the ground already)

However just looking at the pic's web address gives

http://poupov.free.fr/rotation.jpg

and then from the base address

http://poupov.free.fr/

Seems that's all it is. Hopefully the real tests or checks or adjustments and whatever else outside of the PR floodlight glare are going along well today.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:43 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 31):
Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 9):
The end of this runway is pretty close (the aircraft is already in front of the Clement Ader final assembly line), and its attitude (incidence) is quite high.

It must have performed a quick and tough stop.

It's a big yet very empty bird. Those four big engines would have no problem stopping even this big beast quickly.

1. The A380 only has reversers on the inboards.
2. The lion's share of braking is done by the wheel brakes. The reversers are a bonus.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
UAL747
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:44 am

I think it's a fake. I've been waiting to see how much the A380's long wings will flex, and there should be some flexing going on, even if the entire plane isn't off the ground.

UAL
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Boeing Nut
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 33):
The A380 only has reversers on the inboards.

Could you provide me with info on this claim? Because unless I see some type of documentation from a reputable source, I don't believe this for a second.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
welwitschia
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:47 am

Nope - does not convince me either. In that position alot of the weight would have been transferred to the wings already and I don't see no wing flex.
Anyone agree with me.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:49 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 35):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 33):
The A380 only has reversers on the inboards.

Could you provide me with info on this claim? Because unless I see some type of documentation from a reputable source, I don't believe this for a second.

See this pic:
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © French Frogs AirSlides



and this topic: http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2055667/ starting with reply 17.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
richierich
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:49 am

Well, I don't know.
Every time I look at the picture I see something different.
There is something a little funny about it though, and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe the A380 has been superimposed after all....
Clever though.
None shall pass!!!!
 
Mark_D.
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:51 am

Boeing Nut Because unless I see some type of documentation from a reputable source, I don't believe this for a second.

Harrumph!


Seems it's more than just a claim. Was a fair bit of discussion about this in the A380 "first rolling" threads from last week.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:02 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 37):
See this pic:

View Large View Medium

Photo © French Frogs AirSlides



and this topic: http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2055667/ starting with reply 17.

This information doesn not prove that the A380 has only two engines with reverse thrust. The pic only shows two being used, it doesn't prove it only has two.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:04 am

Quoting Mark_D. (Reply 39):
Because unless I see some type of documentation from a reputable source, I don't believe this for a second.

Like I said, a reputable source. Not speculations. If I'm wrong, I have some salt and pepper ready to eat my crow.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:05 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 40):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 37):
See this pic:

View Large View Medium

Photo © French Frogs AirSlides

and this topic: http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2055667/ starting with reply 17.

This information doesn not prove that the A380 has only two engines with reverse thrust. The pic only shows two being used, it doesn't prove it only has two.

Well it doesn't prove it, as you say. But the replies from quite a few knowledgeable posters sure convince me. Besides which, I'd heard this before.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:10 am

OK, well, here's another reason I don't believe the only two engine reverser claim.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Dopson - AirTeamImages


Not an A380 I realize, but a big bird non the less.

Besides a 747 has all four,
a C-5 has all four,
an An -124 has all four,
and as the photo proves, the An-225 has all six. I have a hard time believing the A380 only has two.

Regards
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
NAV20
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:14 am

Boeing Nut, it's straight-up right. The reason being that the outboard engines will overhang the edges of normal runways, there's a danger that they'd blow up all sorts of debris/litter which would get drawn into the intakes and wreck the engines.

The airports that have agreed to accommodate the A380 - including my hometown one, Melbourne - are only widening their runways to the extent of putting in non-loadbearing 'shoulders', not full-blown tarmac, on grounds of cost. Some of them will just use gravel. So the outboard engines won't have reverse thrust.

It shouldn't make any difference really - as far as I know, full power is very rarely needed in reverse-thrust mode, if ever - I don't think there are any safety implications, if that is what you're concerned about.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
knoxibus
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:15 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27):
Knoxibus works for Airbus. He knows that its a fake. He's the only person here that would. Listen to him, and stop arguing.

Ok, but that does not mean I should be right, I gave my two cents (90% of the colleagues agree).

We also have difficulties obtaining precise info, but I do indeed benefit from reliable source inputs. Once again, tomorrow I will have the official flight test center newsletter, and I will confirm it.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 31):
It's a big yet very empty bird. Those four big engines would have no problem stopping even this big beast quickly

Yes but you did not read what I wrote. I know this place (duhh I live and work here), and all I am saying is that the runway end is VERY near, and looking at the angle of attack, the A/C would have ended in the fields.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 35):
Could you provide me with info on this claim? Because unless I see some type of documentation from a reputable source, I don't believe this for a second.

Well of course can't give you a copy now (can't put it online), but this is what the FCOM says, as well as what the pics of the cockpit I have show (thrust levers with reverse only for inboard engines).

Quoting Welwitschia (Reply 36):
the weight would have been transferred to the wings already and I don't see no wing flex.

Another very good point, I totally agree with you.
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
MD-90
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:16 am

The 747 has less wingspan, and the other three all have higher mounted wings.
 
keta
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:17 am

OK, you convinced me. No wing flex, too high AoA... and having a closer look at the main gear, looks like it's been edited. The nose looks different too. I attached the pic with the A380 magnified.



We should be able to see the other 4-wheel bogey, don't you think so?

Now I think it's fake

[Edited 2005-04-18 18:34:23]
Where there's a will, there's a way
 
corey07850
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RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:18 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 41):

Like I said, a reputable source. Not speculations. If I'm wrong, I have some salt and pepper ready to eat my crow.

Good lord... Some people just don't know when to stop...
http://www.airbus.com/leBourget2003/articles_detail.asp?ae_id=1291

"In addition, each A380 will have two different nacelle configurations because the aircraft’s inboard engines will be equipped with thrust reversers while the outboard engines will not require reversers."


BTW you can see in the rotation photo that the plane is coming up to the glideslope antenna which is usually placed 1000' from the end of the runway.... I highly doubt this thing can get it's nose back on the ground AND stop in about 1500' considering the speed it would have to be at to lift the nose off
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: First A380 Rotation Pic

Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:29 am

Alrighty then! It seems as though I will now start my sophisticated colinary adventure by eating my tasty crow!!

OK, guys, I asked for reputable sources (thank you Corey07850 for the link) and you gave me some. It took longer than it should have but, I see now that it is indeed fact. Thank you.

It's a good thing I didn't bet the farm, cause I'd be packin' right now.

Keta, good catch on the "missing" wing bogey.

Corey07850, I do know when to stop, thanks to you, the buck just showed up.

[Edited 2005-04-18 18:34:21]
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.

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