mig21umd
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777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:53 pm

I wouldn't normally make a statement like this, however, over the past week I have heard some (noise) from people involved with QF directly and others waiting to be involved (pilots on waiting lists) and they are all saying the same thing; that Qantas has booked a very large amount of simulator time for the 777-200LR.

I guess this can only mean one thing champagne , unless there is another reason why QF would do this? Or maybe it is just not true. ( I hope not)

After QF management for so long have believed that the 777 is not the right aircraft for the Qantas fleet, it seems now they may have had a change of heart.
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zonky
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:05 pm

If as is said- there is no way to (economically) fly LHR-SYD noth directions; is there perhaps another direct destination in mind? Is SYD-NYC possible? Some other North American destination?
 
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:06 pm

Was there any word on when a possible order would be announced? It makes sense for QF to operate the B777 now since NZ will become a new operator in September and the B773ER will replaced the B744s in about 10 years
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:06 pm

SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) NYC (40°43'N 74°01'W) 9938 mi
LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) 10573 mi
 
United Airline
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:12 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 2):

You never know. NZ might order the A 380 or the B 747 Advanced instead.
 
mig21umd
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:24 pm

I did not want to elaborate too much because their could be a little Chinese whispers involved here. A few of the people who spoke to me about this believed the aircraft could be flying for QF before the A380.

If it is true, than an order could be announced very soon I guess and the aircraft would have to be in service by October 2006. I dont know if this is possible.  Confused
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:24 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 4):
You never know. NZ might order the A 380 or the B 747 Advanced instead.

As far as I know, its already been confirmed that the B773ER will replace the B744 fleet. NZ have no need and will be in no way to be able to operate the A380. NZ prefers frequency on its routes.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:27 pm

Quoting Mig21UMD (Reply 5):
If it is true, than an order could be announced very soon I guess and the aircraft would have to be in service by October 2006. I dont know if this is possible.

If its ordered this month or next month then it could be possible
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bill142
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:31 pm

Quoting Mig21UMD (Thread starter):
I wouldn't normally make a statement like this, however, over the past week I have heard some (noise) from people involved with QF directly and others waiting to be involved (pilots on waiting lists) and they are all saying the same thing; that Qantas has booked a very large amount of simulator time for the 777-200LR.

Could this simply be to allow pilots to evaluate the aircraft to get their opinions on it?. Just because they have booked simulator time does not mean that an order has been placed or is imminent. There would be more cause for rumors if they have purchased a 777 simulator.

This isn't a my friends brothers, sister in-laws, husbands, nephew's un-born son said so is it?

Quoting 777ER (Reply 2):
It makes sense for QF to operate the B777 now since NZ will become a new operator

It would espcially of FJ goes 777 as well. However a QF order is still someway off I would say.
 
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:35 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
NZ have no need and will be in no way to be able to operate the A380. NZ prefers frequency on its routes.

Which it can't deliver into LHR presently. There will be a downgrade to 773ER in ~10 years which currently makes no sense. Will they drop this route/codeshare it with someone else?
 
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:37 pm

Much, much more likely to use the A345 for ultralonghaul if they're also flying the A330 and a380. While I like the 777, I think it would be a mistake on QF's part to shoehorn the type into an otherwise Airbus fleet.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:55 pm

Quoting Zonky (Reply 9):
Will they drop this route/codeshare it with someone else?

NZ did consider re-routing the LHR sector throu SFO, but have decided not to. Code-sharing on LHR route could be an option after the B773ER has replaced the B744 fleet

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 10):
Much, much more likely to use the A345 for ultralonghaul if they're also flying the A330 and a380. While I like the 777, I think it would be a mistake on QF's part to shoehorn the type into an otherwise Airbus fleet.

QF has more Boeing long haul then Airbus long haul and this will remain after delivery of A380
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avek00
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:04 pm

Buying sim time really doesn't mean much of anything - numerous carriers purchase sim time to try out different aircraft, and it does not necessarily amount to anything more than an interesting sim flight.

Besides, as mentioned many times before, neither the 772LR nor A345 have the ability to fly MEL/SYD-LHR nonstop - unless and until that changes, QF is far better off continuing its 1-stop services that maximize payloads.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:19 pm

Sydney/Melbourne-New York and Perth-Heathrow nonstop are already feasible both ways with the 777-200LR. So is Heathrow to Sydney or Melbourne; but going the other way doesn't look feasible at present, because of the prevailing winds.

This confirms that Qantas are interested - and that there may be some publicity flights later this year.

"Travelling west from Melbourne or Sydney the 777-200LR would need a stop, but could fly Perth-London and London-Perth non-stop.

"Travel agents are keen on the idea of non-stop, one-way flights from London, saying that if the opposition -- Emirates -- must make a stop both ways, why not offer non-stop in at least one direction.

"The westerly one-stop service to London could also be sold as an express service with no joining passengers at the fuel stop.

"The easterly non-stop from London to Sydney would slash up to four hours off the current 21 hours and 20 minutes from London to Sydney via Singapore."


http://www.ozflight.com.au/news/news.php?id=2869
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:17 pm

QF said last year that a 744 replacment decision would be made in May this year.

The 777/A346 were ther 2 contenders.
 
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:25 pm

Any possibilities for SYD(or MEL)-FCO and SYD(or MEL)-ATH flights with 772LR?
 
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:37 pm

Quoting Lxsaab2000 (Reply 15):
Any possibilities for SYD(or MEL)-FCO and SYD(or MEL)-ATH flights with 772LR?

Less than zero, i would imagine.
 
monteycarlos
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:40 pm

Quoting Mig21UMD (Thread starter):
guess this can only mean one thing , unless there is another reason why QF would do this? Or maybe it is just not true. ( I hope not)

Why do you hope not?

Quoting United Airline (Reply 4):
You never know. NZ might order the A 380 or the B 747 Advanced instead.

Yeah, and backfoot on their 773ER order... Far from likely. IMO NZ will never operate an Airbus bigger than an A320. They simply have no real reason too because they are more isolated (no offence, its also true of parts of Australia) and have operated Boeing aircraft effectively in the past. Their recent 787, 773ER order ought to see them through for a while anyway.

Quoting Mig21UMD (Reply 5):
I did not want to elaborate too much because their could be a little Chinese whispers involved here. A few of the people who spoke to me about this believed the aircraft could be flying for QF before the A380.

More fuel for the rumour mill. But I find it very difficult to believe for one that QF could have a 777 delivered before mid to late 06 without seriously cutting some other airlines lunch on the production line.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 8):
There would be more cause for rumors if they have purchased a 777 simulator.

Agreed, and to further that BR already had 777 training captains and rated airmen late last year for 777 orders that are due to be delivered starting late this year. There is a massive amount of planning in this regard and if that were the case you would definitely know something already. IMO, this sim time is nothing more than an evaluation of the systems with view to greater interest.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 10):
While I like the 777, I think it would be a mistake on QF's part to shoehorn the type into an otherwise Airbus fleet.

Yeah cos QF mostly operate Airbus... B743/4/ER's, 763ER's, 734/8's, 712's (JQ currently and former impulse). But, given that... There is no real reason for QF not to pick the 777... No major changes needed at Mascot for it and considering that QF have shown interest, I doubt they think there will be an integration issues.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 13):
Travel agents are keen on the idea of non-stop, one-way flights from London, saying that if the opposition -- Emirates -- must make a stop both ways, why not offer non-stop in at least one direction.

Not a fan of that article.

To further this a little more. I would seriously doubt that the fleet planning guys at QF would think that the 772LR gives them more opportunities than the 773ER does. After all, if it is touted as a B744 replacement then capacity is going to be an issue. Although QF have expressed their interest in "hub-busting," there is barely anything the 773ER can't give QF that the 772LR can... The trade off is capacity of the 773ER or the range of the 772LR. My bet is that the consideration will go to the 773ER.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:41 pm

Quoting ANstar (Reply 14):
QF said last year that a 744 replacment decision would be made in May this year.

That will only be for QFs oldest B744s. QF have said several times that the B744 will remain as the back bone of the long haul fleet
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monteycarlos
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:50 pm

Quoting Lxsaab2000 (Reply 15):
Any possibilities for SYD(or MEL)-FCO and SYD(or MEL)-ATH flights with 772LR?

You'll find that QF have little to no interest in these destinations purely because of the limited travel market. It has been tried before and has found to be a wasted use of resources.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:53 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 17):
Not a fan of that article

I am. I travel the sector LHR-SYD a minimum of 12 times a year. If offered non-stop, even if one sector only, they'll have 1 very loyal F Class customer and there are plenty more like me that would like it too..

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NAV20
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:56 pm

No problem to do non-stop with either, Lxsaab2000, if the traffic is there. In fact I expect that they could do those with the Triple Seven ER (Extended Range), which goes about 7,750 nms., carries more payload (up to 365 passengers), and needs less than 50,000 gallons of fuel - haven't checked the actual distances, though.

[Edited 2005-04-19 15:01:01]
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:59 pm

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 20):



Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 20):
Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 17):
Not a fan of that article

I am. I travel the sector LHR-SYD a minimum of 12 times a year. If offered non-stop, even if one sector only, they'll have 1 very loyal F Class customer and there are plenty more like me that would like it too..

I second that. Looking after one one of the largest corporate travel accounts in Australia that sends dozens of pax to LHR / JFK / RDU every week. There would be a lot of pax who would opt for a non stop LHR / JFK or a one stop RDU service via DFW. I am sure of a big demand for SYD/DFW to link the AA hub city of DFW.
 
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:03 pm

In addition to range restrictions, the other problem with nonstop flights is cargo - the nonstop flights would be heavily payload restricted, and QF's Euro-Oz strategy depends in part on hauling heavy cargo loads. EK, SQ, et. al. would therefore retain a revenue-generating ADVANTAGE over a nonstop QF flight.
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bill142
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:10 pm

Quoting ANstar (Reply 14):
QF said last year that a 744 replacment decision would be made in May this year

This has apparently been pushed back to 2nd half of this year. Also the scope has apparently been broadened to include 787 and A350 which would make sense for the replacement of the 767 fleet which by the time deliveries begin will be about 20 years old.
 
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:32 pm

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 20):
I am. I travel the sector LHR-SYD a minimum of 12 times a year. If offered non-stop, even if one sector only, they'll have 1 very loyal F Class customer and there are plenty more like me that would like it too..

I was simply referring to the fact that I don't like travel agents. But honestly, I don't believe QF will buy the 772LR just so it can operate SYD/MEL - LHR non-stop and then return via SIN. They are better off buying the 773ER, which is more flexible to their needs (especially considering cargo) as well as carry more passengers and provide greater premium seating.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 21):
No problem to do non-stop with either, Lxsaab2000, if the traffic is there. In fact I expect that they could do those with the Triple Seven ER (Extended Range), which goes about 7,750 nms., carries more payload (up to 365 passengers), and needs less than 50,000 gallons of fuel - haven't checked the actual distances, though.

Yeah, I am pretty sure that SYD - JFK is beyond the 773ER, but I am not sure that the traffic (as you said) would be that great anyway. I am pretty sure Boeing are going to update the 773ER specs (range included) but it probably still would not be able to make it. ORD is a different story however, but I think that may be hurting the AA code-share agreement.

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 23):
In addition to range restrictions, the other problem with nonstop flights is cargo - the nonstop flights would be heavily payload restricted, and QF's Euro-Oz strategy depends in part on hauling heavy cargo loads. EK, SQ, et. al. would therefore retain a revenue-generating ADVANTAGE over a nonstop QF flight.

Yeah, the cargo is the big factor here. Often cargo can go for four times the price of a passenger, so the more they can carry, the more cash they make and with a large aircraft such as the 773ER they have a lot more revenue making potential than they do with the 772LR.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:53 pm

Montey, with respect, Lks was talking about Rome/Athens - definitely ER country! Tend to agree with you that there probably isn't enough traffic  

Problem is, most of us don't know the figures for available traffic. But, on this thread, already, you have two people (a 'frequent flyer' and a travel specialist) saying that direct flights to LHR, Kennedy, and DFW (even if there IS a 'remain in your seats' fuel-stop at Perth or Darwin on the way to LHR) have a lot of appeal.

You can add me to that list - I don't travel as much these days, but when I do my destinations are usually JFK or (less frequently) LHR. My guess is, there are plenty like us. Speaking for myself only, I'll always take a smaller aeroplane over a jumbo, if it's available; and I know other people who have the same preference.

Just taking the trip I do most often, JFK via LAX - I've no way of assessing the final destination of my fellow travellers, but my guess is that about half of them are terminating in California, and the rest are going on to the East. For any airline, Boeing's new range would open up the possibility of sending one lot to LAX in a 788, and the rest direct to JFK on a 772LR. They gain a lot over a four-engined jumbo in terms of lower fuel costs, and of course they gain around 600,000 seat-miles on the LAX-JFK leg, which they have to make a present of to US airlines at the moment.

All in all, I just get the feeling that even if Qantas doesn't do it, it's only a matter of time before someone ELSE does.

[Edited 2005-04-19 16:02:43]

[Edited 2005-04-19 16:04:42]
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monteycarlos
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:05 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
Montey, with respect, Lks was talking about Rome/Athens - definitely ER country! Tend to agree with you that there probably isn't enough traffic

Sorry, but I thought you were still talking about SYD-JFK? Rome and Athens are definately a no-go for QF. I can tell you here and now there is no volume in the routes.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
Problem is, most of us don't know the figures for available traffic. But, on this thread, already, you have two people (a 'frequent flyer' and a travel specialist) saying that direct flights to LHR, Kennedy, and DFW (even if there IS a 'remain in your seats' fuel-stop at Perth or Darwin on the way to LHR) have a lot of appeal.

I am not disputing the fact that people won't want to do it! I for one would jump at the chance. I am saying that it is not practical for the airline considering all the factors. Keep in mind that an airline like QF is not going to buy a jet that is just there to please customers... thats not the aim of their business as much as we may like to think it is.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
For any airline, Boeing's new range would open up the possibility of sending one lot to LAX in a 788, and the rest direct to JFK on a 772LR. They gain a lot over a four-engined jumbo in terms of lower fuel costs, and of course they gain around 600,000 seat-miles on the LAX-JFK leg, which they have to make a present of to US airlines at the moment.

Big call... I flew JFK-LAX with QF and connected on to MEL and both flights were full. I believe the passenger capacity of the B744 that I flew makes it very worthwhile to fly it... 4 engines or not. Keep in consideration the frequency of QF flights into and out of LAX... the issue you are bringing up is that QF should consider SYD-JFK but IMO the 772LR is not the right plane... it just doesn't fit in with all the variables for QF to make the best revenue on the route.

Besides, the A380 will be responsible for the LAX routes to some degree (if LAX is ready) so its probably a lot more complex than it seems.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:21 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 27):
Besides, the A380 will be responsible for the LAX routes to some degree (if LAX is ready....)

The QF order for A380s is interesting in its own right. First of all, from memory, it was placed in 2000 or 2001, when the 787/772LR were not even thought of.

Secondly, although the 'book' says they've ordered 12, as I understand it, only two are due to be delivered immediately (and even those won't be in production yet); the others being phased for delivery as required, over a period of years, as QF's current 747s come up for renewal.

So it might not cost Qantas (or anyone else) too much to change horses, if they make up their minds quickly?

[Edited 2005-04-19 16:23:20]
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monteycarlos
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:27 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 28):
So it might not cost Qantas (or anyone else) too much to change horses, if they make up their minds quickly?

Nah they're firm orders... It would be a breach of contract and would be extremely costly at this point.

Not sure where you heard this but the first couple are due late 2006 and then the rest will most certainly be delivered after that over two years from what I gather. QF would not make such a large capital commitment for 2 jets and sign a firm order for 12. That is why "options" exist.

I would like to see the 777 at QF as much as anyone would, but I guess we'll have to wait and see how this one turns out.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:38 pm

Just said it was 'interesting', Montey  Smile

Since it's pretty well-known that the price for Qantas' A380s is only $US150M. a shot (a lot less than it will cost to build them), an action for 'breach of contract' would be on shaky ground when it came to assessing damages. On all the evidence, in terms of money (as opposed to prestige), any cancellations would actually SAVE Airbus s***loads!

And even that assumes that the A380 meets the 2001 specification in terms of passenger capacity, fuel consumption, etc.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:12 am

Sorry Removed the post - Off Topic.

[Edited 2005-04-19 22:28:04]
 
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:30 am

Posted on Behalf of a friend.. He is watching this topic.

I've heard from a partial official source that Qantas are upgrading their entire 744 fleet's flight decks to prolong their use In qantas and Qantas actually aren't too pleased with their Airbus's because of the extended turn around time and have been looking at 777's and A340-500's to replace the 330
 
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:49 am

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 25):
I was simply referring to the fact that I don't like travel agents. But honestly, I don't believe QF will buy the 772LR just so it can operate SYD/MEL - LHR non-stop and then return via SIN. They are better off buying the 773ER, which is more flexible to their needs (especially considering cargo) as well as carry more passengers and provide greater premium seating.

Ok, though I am not a travel agent! I do see your point and look forward to when QF do announce which aircraft they will acquire. I too feel that they could go with the 773ER.

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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
Montey, with respect, Lks was talking about Rome/Athens - definitely ER country!

SYD-FCO and SYD-ATH are far outside the range of either the 777-200ER or the 777-300ER.

N
 
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:12 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
All in all, I just get the feeling that even if Qantas doesn't do it, it's only a matter of time before someone ELSE does.

Like whom? Third-country carriers won't be able to get the authorities, and the barriers to entry are too high for new entrants.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:25 am

I think a 772LR and 773ER combo would work. QF is and has been interested in the 777 before, heck they had a lot of influence on its design during Boeing's initial design studies. It could quite possibly be that QF would opt for the 787/777 Combo that has seen lots of success in recent months....
 
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting Mig21UMD (Thread starter):
Qantas has booked a very large amount of simulator time for the 777-200LR.

All B777 derivatives have the same cockpit. Are you sure that your source has picked the correct derivative?

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 25):
But honestly, I don't believe QF will buy the 772LR just so it can operate SYD/MEL - LHR non-stop and then return via SIN.

The other way around: eastbound non-stop, westbound one-stop.

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 27):
Keep in mind that an airline like QF is not going to buy a jet that is just there to please customers... thats not the aim of their business as much as we may like to think it is.

That is absurd. Whether an airline buys an airplane because it allows them the lowest costs or perhaps the widest seats, an airline picks the airplane that is of most value to it. The airplane with the most value is the one that is most conducive to the markets sought flown. The markets sought flown are governed by the customer and the numbers of customers. Therefore, no matter how you look at it the customer is core to what airplanes airlines pick. QF is no exception.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 28):
The QF order for A380s is interesting in its own right. First of all, from memory, it was placed in 2000 or 2001, when the 787/772LR were not even thought of.

The order came in Nov-00. The B777LR was launched in Feb-00.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 28):
Secondly, although the 'book' says they've ordered 12, as I understand it, only two are due to be delivered immediately (and even those won't be in production yet); the others being phased for delivery as required, over a period of years, as QF's current 747s come up for renewal.

Every airline takes deliveries over a period of time. For QF, their A380s will be delivered as: 2 in 2006, 4 in 2007, 4 in 2008 and 2 in 2009. There is, of course, options held by QF for further A380s if they wish.

The first two are all ready in production.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 28):
So it might not cost Qantas (or anyone else) too much to change horses, if they make up their minds quickly?

It would cost them a bundle. Cancellations are not cheap. Conversions, however, are often much cheaper...
 
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keesje
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 28):
First of all, from memory, it (A380) was placed in 2000 or 2001, when the 787/772LR were not even thought of.

Maybe capasity requirements were a little different..

Quoting TFSPhoto (Reply 32):
because of the extended turn around time and have been looking at 777's and A340-500's to replace the 330

Maybe range requirements were a little different..
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:15 am

A source from the industry, coincidently visiting Sydney, warns for potential dangers of introducing lots of A380's. He thinks 400 or 300 seaters like e.g. 772LR might be a better idea.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au.../0,5744,15023533%255E23349,00.html

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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:57 am

Qantas would be strange not to buy the 772LR. As someone already pointed out, all of Qantas' routes to Europe nonstop are almost all beyond the reach of the 777-200ER, -300ER, and therefore most likely the A380. the 772LR would enable them to stop depending on so many connections to get to Europe and just fly straight there. It's either the 772LR or the A345....and given the 772LR is probably the better choice, I suspect Qantas will choose that one. they need one of these two, there is no doubt in my mind about that.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting Thrust (Reply 40):
Qantas would be strange not to buy the 772LR. As someone already pointed out, all of Qantas' routes to Europe nonstop are almost all beyond the reach of the 777-200ER, -300ER, and therefore most likely the A380. the 772LR would enable them to stop depending on so many connections to get to Europe and just fly straight there. It's either the 772LR or the A345....and given the 772LR is probably the better choice, I suspect Qantas will choose that one. they need one of these two, there is no doubt in my mind about that.

Qantas would be acting strangely if they *DID* buy either the 772LR or 345 - neither aircraft can offer nonstop service ex-SYD/MEL to major Western European cities with a full payload, and would require steep yield premiums to make the services work even if range was not an issue.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 30):
Since it's pretty well-known that the price for Qantas' A380s is only $US150M. a shot (a lot less than it will cost to build them), an action for 'breach of contract' would be on shaky ground when it came to assessing damages. On all the evidence, in terms of money (as opposed to prestige), any cancellations would actually SAVE Airbus s***loads!

And I am guessing you have a credible source and that its not just pure speculation?  Yeah sure

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 30):
And even that assumes that the A380 meets the 2001 specification in terms of passenger capacity, fuel consumption, etc.

Well as long as it is within 5% (or 3% - can't remember) then it doesn't matter.

Quoting TFSPhoto (Reply 32):
I've heard from a partial official source that Qantas are upgrading their entire 744 fleet's flight decks to prolong their use In qantas and Qantas actually aren't too pleased with their Airbus's because of the extended turn around time and have been looking at 777's and A340-500's to replace the 330

They have publicly stated that they will be looking at replacing their older 744's. I have also heard QF were not impressed with their A333's and the A332's to some extent prior to them being placed on longer routes... it was simply ineffiecient and IMO stupid. Honestly, I don't see how they can expect to run A330's on 1-hour sectors and manage to turn it around in as much time as a 763 or 738.

However, I very much doubt that they would replace A330's with 777's or A340's... on long haul it would be good, but short haul I can think of nothing worse.

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 33):
Ok, though I am not a travel agent!

Apologies, I didn't mean to suggest you were. I just really don't like travel agents though.

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 37):
The other way around: eastbound non-stop, westbound one-stop.

Whoah... sorry I got it the wrong way round.

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 37):
That is absurd. Whether an airline buys an airplane because it allows them the lowest costs or perhaps the widest seats, an airline picks the airplane that is of most value to it. The airplane with the most value is the one that is most conducive to the markets sought flown. The markets sought flown are governed by the customer and the numbers of customers. Therefore, no matter how you look at it the customer is core to what airplanes airlines pick. QF is no exception.

You said it yourself, they pick the plane as the market dictates... not the customers. It is an important distuinguishment in any business because markets behave very differently from customers induvidually. As for "markets sought flown" I have no idea what that means but I am guessing you mean that the routes flown are dictated by the customers - true. But the plane depends on so many variables on that route that a direct link is non-existant. The market is the core - not the induvidual customer.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 39):
A source from the industry, coincidently visiting Sydney, warns for potential dangers of introducing lots of A380's. He thinks 400 or 300 seaters like e.g. 772LR might be a better idea.

And I wonder what their motivation for saying that is. It seems like the wording "potential dangers" is a bit too loaded for me.

Quoting Thrust (Reply 40):
Qantas would be strange not to buy the 772LR. As someone already pointed out, all of Qantas' routes to Europe nonstop are almost all beyond the reach of the 777-200ER, -300ER, and therefore most likely the A380. the 772LR would enable them to stop depending on so many connections to get to Europe and just fly straight there. It's either the 772LR or the A345....and given the 772LR is probably the better choice, I suspect Qantas will choose that one. they need one of these two, there is no doubt in my mind about that.



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 41):
Qantas would be acting strangely if they *DID* buy either the 772LR or 345 - neither aircraft can offer nonstop service ex-SYD/MEL to major Western European cities with a full payload, and would require steep yield premiums to make the services work even if range was not an issue.

Agreed...
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:44 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 41):
Qantas would be acting strangely if they *DID* buy either the 772LR or 345 - neither aircraft can offer nonstop service ex-SYD/MEL to major Western European cities with a full payload

But from the other side of Australia it could be done
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avek00
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:44 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 43):
Quoting Avek00 (Reply 41):
Qantas would be acting strangely if they *DID* buy either the 772LR or 345 - neither aircraft can offer nonstop service ex-SYD/MEL to major Western European cities with a full payload

But from the other side of Australia it could be done

The other side of Australia isn't where the money lies.
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PHXinterrupted
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:48 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 41):
Qantas would be acting strangely if they *DID* buy either the 772LR or 345 - neither aircraft can offer nonstop service ex-SYD/MEL to major Western European cities with a full payload, and would require steep yield premiums to make the services work even if range was not an issue.

Western Europe is not the only market. Perhaps they are looking at expanding in North America? There are several east coast cities that could probably support daily flights to SYD.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:53 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 44):

The other side of Australia isn't where the money lies.

EK have proved this is not the case. While airlines add flights to Australia and base them at either MEL, BNE or SYD because of thats where the passengers are, EK are having a good time with adding more flights to the airport they serve due to huge demand on the other side and are wanting to add more airport on the other side to their network.
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avek00
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:58 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 46):
EK have proved this is not the case. While airlines add flights to Australia and base them at either MEL, BNE or SYD because of thats where the passengers are, EK are having a good time with adding more flights to the airport they serve due to huge demand on the other side and are wanting to add more airport on the other side to their network.

The premium demand to Europe ex-PER pales in comparsion to the demand ex-SYD and ex-MEL. As far as nonstops to Europe go, the money is to be made by flying to Australia's East Coast, which neither the 772LR nor the A345 can accomplish in both directions with a full payload.
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Flying-Tiger
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:02 am

Sounds that QF wants to become Ansett Mark II... but a little of everything... the whole damn A340-500/B777-200LR is completely overrated. Not really fun to be on a plane for 167-18 hours or longer, I'd rather have a stop-over to have some time on the ground, walking.
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RE: 777-200LR In Qantas Colors Very Soon?

Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:03 am

Well I for one hope so the 777 is a great plane

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