squirrel83
Posts: 1219
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:28 pm

Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:59 pm

A lot of Security Articles This morning



The recent U.S. ban on cigarette lighters aboard passenger planes has caught scores of smokers by surprise at North American airports, but the ban is also making waves globally.


While some may agree with this new ban, others believe U.S. authorities have gone too far.

"It is going to do absolutely nothing. It is part of the public relations exercise that has gone on since September 11, 2001," Chris Yates of Jane's Transport publications told CNN.

"It is to convince the traveling public that something is being done about security. They have banned a lot of inoffensive items from airplanes and the list is ludicrous."

"The ability for someone to do damage, either with a sharpened playing card or splinters of plastic from the present cutlery that is on board is just as damaging," says Richard Garner, a civil aviation security consultant.


http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/04/19/bt.lighter.ban.debate/index.html
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:13 pm

Seeing as how you can't smoke on the plane to begin with, and lighters are widely and cheaply avialable, I fail to see what the big deal is.
Proud OOTSK member
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:25 pm

I'm with Lowrider - you don't really need a lighter on the plane. Simple answer is: (1) if your airport has smoking areas after security, just provide matches, and (2) just make the bins at security permanent, and take the lighters disposed of there down to baggage claim. As smokers pass through security, they drop off their cheap Bic, then pull one out of the bin when they get to their destination.

Don't get me wrong, I think the lighter ban contributes absolutely zero to security, but it's really a minor thing. As long as TSA effectively communicates the ban effectively so people don't take good lighters to the airport (I left my $60 Colibri at home last weekend when I went to TPA), it's not a big deal.

(If I was TSA, I'd also communicate that the ban is Congress' idea, not theirs...)
 
Brussels
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:34 pm

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 1):
Seeing as how you can't smoke on the plane to begin with, and lighters are widely and cheaply avialable, I fail to see what the big deal is.

When I agree that lighters are cheaply and widely available, I would also question the reason to ban such a common item on board.

We shouldn't consider each civil flight as a potential, deadly threat to the public. While lighters are allowed on trains, underground trains, buses, coaches, and on many other mass transportation, is it really necessary to ban lighters on passenger planes? The U.S. government should presents figures to justify how much safer can the lighters ban offer to the public rather than just banning it for goodwill.

I know some smoking friend's who would always like to bring along with their own lighter. When there is currently no reseraches showing lighters can be a "highly dangerous" item on passenger planes, how would this ban justify against the freedom for a person to carry their lighter along.

May be there will be a 'lighter shop' in every American airport soon to cater the needs of smoking passengers, and if your want to start your franchised lighter shop, please contact the business officers of the nearest airport.



[Edited 2005-04-20 18:30:26]
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:18 am

The entire ban lighters came about in the report regarding Richard Reid. The report said that had he had a lighter instead of matches that the shoebomb more than likely would have been successful.

One company not entirely happy with the ban is Zippo.
http://www.zippo.com/lighterBan.html
http://capwiz.com/zippo/home/
 
JMV
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 4:22 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:29 am

US National Security Threat #1



US National Security Threat #2

Google begins where my brain ends! ©
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3529
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:30 am

Can you check lighters into luggage any more? Zippos are awfully expensive.
What now?
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:48 am

Glad I quit somking last month.
 
Bridogger6
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:21 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 6):
Can you check lighters into luggage any more?

No.
 
galapagapop
Posts: 861
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:08 am

But if makes sense seeing as the new thing is these torch lighters that could do some harm if used for such a purpose on a plane. I rather have some ludicrous laws on planes than rather have none...
 
CMHSRQ
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:38 am

Just fly naked with no luggage. I hate the TSA, just a big facade. I went to college at Riddle with a guy who owned an airline in Columbia, one of his planes was hijacked with with a pencil. Idiots.
The voice of moderation
 
NWA1978
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:15 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 1):
Seeing as how you can't smoke on the plane to begin with, and lighters are widely and cheaply avialable, I fail to see what the big deal is.

well, since you cant use cell phones on the planes either, maybe they should ban cell phones anywhere near or on the plane. Your answer is total BS. While some people buy the $0.49 lighters, others like myself carry a expensive zippo which I will no longer be able to have.
 
mtnmanmakalu
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:47 pm

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:52 am

Quoting NWA1978 (Reply 11):
While some people buy the $0.49 lighters, others like myself carry a expensive zippo which I will no longer be able to have

Unfortunately, like a kid in school that everybody gets in trouble for, we all have to suffer for a few ***holes in the world.... I am a cigar smoker and haven't been able to take my $100.00 Colibri lighter on layovers with me since 9/11- but the cigar cutter is OK... I don't get it either !!

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 6):
Can you check lighters into luggage any more?

I haven't read anything that bans them in your checked baggage- I could be wrong, but if you can bag-check a gun, why not a lighter???

mtnman  Smile
I do, I don't, whatever.......
 
PMN
Posts: 547
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:44 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:01 am

Nice thread title. 'Ban On Lighters SPARKS Debate'!

Was that intentional?  cheeky 
Edith in his bed, a plane in the rain is humming, the wires in the walls are humming some song - some mysterious song
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:04 am



US Security Threat #3


Banning lighters on carryon is creating a NEW security threat, especially after long flights. Some guy flying 6+ hours from Europe is going to really need that cigarette. Being that they don't provide matches or lighters at the airport when they get off the plane, you are going to have some cranky passengers looking for a smoke.

The airport should provide lighters right at the smoking lounge or a worker that goes around lighting cigarettes in the World clubs and lounges. This could become a serious problem. Anyone who smokes should know what kind of mood you can get in if you haven't had a smoke in some time.
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting NWA1978 (Reply 11):
well, since you cant use cell phones on the planes either

Foolish comparison. A cell phone may be highly personal device which may not be easily and cheaply duplicated at any give destination. Cigarette lighters, on the other hand, are aviablable at most corner stores for less than $1. I like the idea exFATboy had of making confiscated ones available for free as you leave the secured area. Saves the trouble of having to dispose of them Just because you don't like the answer doesn't make it BS. Tell me, if you are in an area where smoking is not permitted, what use do you have for a lighter? They don't have an "airplane mode" like many PDA phones.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 14):
Some guy flying 6+ hours from Europe is going to really need that cigarette.

Then he is SOL, because he will have to wait until he is off the airplane anyway.
Proud OOTSK member
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:07 am

yeah but he is gonna want a cigarette right after he gets off the plane. He could run to a smoking lounge or smoking area. Some places had smoking areas right before they went thru customs. Even those who didn't could get their smokes after they went through customs.

think about the guy flying from Asia to SFO, then transferring to somewhere on the east coast.

He could at one time grab a smoke between flights if there was enough time, now he is going to have to wait another 3-4 hours until he lands on the east coast. Being that there won't be lighters sold at airports, he is going to have to stop at a gas station or something outside the airport. I think by then he is going to be quite cranky.

I don't smoke anymore thank God, but when I did smoke I know what it is like to not be able to smoke for a few hours, we are talking about a guy going through 15-18 hours not being able to have a smoke.
 
NWA1978
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:15 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:29 am

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 15):
Tell me, if you are in an area where smoking is not permitted, what use do you have for a lighter?

Bad comparison? Not really, you just made my point.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 15):
They don't have an "airplane mode" like many PDA phones.

Ummm, ya they do. Zippos close. So when I said your answer was bs, I should have said it was one sided.

They have pay phones at the airport, so you dont need your cell phone. I carry a blackberry for business so I can understand your point, but would it be impossible to travel without it... the answer is no, so why not ban them as well.

It doesnt matter what the cost of the lighter is, it's the point. I could say the same thing about a cell phone, they are cheap, so buy another when you get to your destination. This is not supposed to turn into a pissin match, but the simple fact is that it doesnt both the people who dont smoke, and the smokers are outraged because this is as stupid as it gets. I could just as easily kill somebody with my pen!
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:19 pm

This is garbage. The Zippo that I've carried through 8 countries originated in the US, and was only available for purchase in Ireland (Guinness Gift Shop), and I've carried it airborne for 4 years, through those countries without issue.

Yeah, I smoke. It's a terrible habit, and I want to quit. It's addictive, so some of us can't quit so easily. Some of you people are suggesting that smokers quit overnight with no regard to our personal comfort, whether that be mentally, or *physically*!

I agree that nicotine is a terrible drug. Probably one of the worst. Are you going to blame a crack baby for their addiction and subject them to instantaneous withdrawal? Some of you 10 year-olds on here are going to jump on the wagon and say, "sure!". To you, I ask you to remember your persecution when your "nasty-ass" bubblegum habit gets stuck on the bottom of my shoe... but I'm sure that your Ritalin will take care of that.

People that have found that life isn't a dream world will give us "nicotine addicts" a chance, and realize that STOP NOW BECAUSE THE TSA SAYS SO really isn't an option.

I smoke. I don't need to apologize for anyone for that other than myself. When I fly, I grab some chewey-backy so I don't freak out from a dependency. Would you rather have someone who is calm, cool, and collected next to you, or someone who is flipping out since they can't have a light with them? That light, even though it might be less than a dollar could very well be someone's security blanket. Take something so simple away? Especially since I've done hundreds of thousands of miles without incident?

For every 99 cent Bic lighter that's taken away from me on departure, it's only fair that I have a 99 cent Bic lighter given back to me at my destination, with no extra cost or inconvenience to me.

The fucked up part of this (pardon my language, but there's no other way to put it) is that we're pursuing this based on a single individual's actions.

One guy. How many smokers? This is messed up.

If you want to ban the lighters, you might as well ban the shoes. A 9V battery will light those bastard sandals up as much as a Bic. These new rules suck.

Fly Naked!
We can agree to disagree.
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: Ban On Lighters Sparks Debate

Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:21 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 18):
People that have found that life isn't a dream world will give us "nicotine addicts" a chance, and realize that STOP NOW BECAUSE THE TSA SAYS SO really isn't an option.

I find it ironic since the TSA and Homeland Security is Bush's baby, yet Bush's biggest lobbiests are the Tobacco Industry. I wonder what they have to say about all of this.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos