lh477
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Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:06 am

Indian commerical aviation in the last several years has grown by leaps and bounds(10-20years late mindyou), and in the next 5 years will continue to grow at tremendous pace. More International players have entered the market or will be entering( AC,CO,VS,AA), AI and IC both expanding, and
the private airliners are going nuts with expansion fever.

BOM unarguably is the prime city of Indian Commercial aviation. The Airport
is unfortunately bursting at the seems( My opinion based on several visits in the last few years, no stastics on traffic and capacity). I can't see how BOM will be able to handle all this expansion. Several a.netters have also noted the lack of slots availability at prime times.

Several questions.
1. Is BOM in need of a major rehaul? ( New terminals, New Runways)
2. Is further development in current location possible.
3. If not, What are possibilties for new Airport.

I am of the opinion that they should do what Hong Kong and Kansai did, build in the sea. Like Hong Kong, Mumbai has little open space available.
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
Concorde001
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:11 am

YES, YES, YES! That goes for DEL and ATQ as well!  yes 
 
karan69
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting LH477 (Thread starter):
Is BOM in need of a major rehaul? ( New terminals, New Runways)

Yes, and for once even the civil aviation minister thinks so. PP said that [very frustatingly] that even pakistan had better airports than both DEL and BOM
Work on terminal 1B used by the private carriers is already underway, from the projected looks of it atleast, it does seem impressive

Quoting LH477 (Thread starter):
Is further development in current location possible.

B747-437B and HAWK21M are in a better position to answer that

Quoting LH477 (Thread starter):
If not, What are possibilties for new Airport.

My friend George, who was travelling by road from BOM to Goa, told me that at some place "well it is neare Navasheva which is where the largest cargo ships that come to Mumbai dock around there"
After inquiring around the wherabouts i found out that it is some 20kms from Panvel---very far from the current one
 
cx750
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:12 am

Karan69, do you have any pics of 1B's development? What is the expected completion date? Thanks.
 
karan69
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:01 pm

Quoting CX750 (Reply 3):
Karan69, do you have any pics of 1B's development?

Nope, as for the time being it even looks worse than before,

Quoting CX750 (Reply 3):
What is the expected completion date?

the Facelift should be completed in another 3-4 mths the entire thing would be completed by around june next year
 
mrniji
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:33 pm

Quoting LH477 (Thread starter):
1. Is BOM in need of a major rehaul? ( New terminals, New Runways)

They should demolish that airport and build it completely new.. Comparing BOM to FRA, SIN, BKK, LHE etc., it is really very sad to see how India's biggest airport is still far behind (the moral uf the staff there, the conditions of the toilets etc.!!).. once AI realizes the capacity of 6th freedom, this airport will burst.. So many things need to be refurbished so that i think it is a completely hopeless case. I hope privatization will do its job, as I do not see the AAI of building a first class airport (hub). This should have happened yesterday, but as usual things get stuck in the bureaucratic procedures.
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:11 pm

Quoting LH477 (Thread starter):
I can't see how BOM will be able to handle all this expansion

Yup Too many years have passed doing Nothing.

Quoting LH477 (Thread starter):
Several questions.
1. Is BOM in need of a major rehaul? ( New terminals, New Runways)
2. Is further development in current location possible.
3. If not, What are possibilties for new Airport.

1.Yes,New Terminals,Parallel Runways,More Important Parking Bays.

2.Partially possible.Theres a lot of space on the South side of
Dumbell 32,Expansion work towards the East is in progress,but would take time.Currently things are moving very slow.

3.There was a plan to construct one North of Mumbai,but it would not work out.

Quoting LH477 (Thread starter):
am of the opinion that they should do what Hong Kong and Kansai did, build in the sea. Like Hong Kong, Mumbai has little open space available.

Thats Exactly the Discussion We had at Work the other day.Construct a Flyover & link to the Airport built over water.
The problem is Time Delays & slow work.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
WestWing
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:48 pm

Is there a current, accurate, readable map of the layout of runways and taxiways at BOM available somewhere on the web ? (The Master Plan diagram posted in another thread doesn't meet the criteria). Thanks.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:36 pm

Quoting WestWing (Reply 7):
Is there a current, accurate, readable map of the layout of runways and taxiways at BOM available somewhere on the web ? (The Master Plan diagram posted in another thread doesn't meet the criteria). Thanks.

The Jepperrsen manual will have the latest & Accurate Diagrams.Maybe someone has a copy.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
WestWing
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:02 pm

I was hoping DGCA or AAI might have something. In the US, FAA has airport diagrams ( e.g.,IAD ) which are in the public domain. Unfortunately, Jeppesen products would not be public domain  Sad
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
karan69
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:46 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
.There was a plan to construct one North of Mumbai,but it would not work out.

As i said earlier, work is in progress and the banner at that place said "site for new airport"
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:28 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 10):
As i said earlier, work is in progress and the banner at that place said "site for new airport"

Practically I dont think it would be used.Aka BLR.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
B747-437B
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:59 pm

Quoting WestWing (Reply 7):
Is there a current, accurate, readable map of the layout of runways and taxiways at BOM available somewhere on the web ?



[Edited 2005-04-22 14:04:25]
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
lh477
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:31 pm

North of Mumbai....Where exactly? Still on the island or even further up? Perhaps Vasai?
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
WestWing
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:18 am

B747-437B: Thanks for the airport diagram which makes it quite clear about the lack of access to Rwy 32. Someone mentioned that normally only runway 27 is used. Purely by looking at the diagram, one would think it would be possible (at least with reasonable winds and visibility) to increase runway utilization by the simultaneous use of 32 for domestic arrivals while 27 is used for departures. The reverse pattern could use 14 for domestic departures, 09 for arrivals+heavy departures. But I am sure there are good reasons why this is not done.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting WestWing (Reply 14):
I am sure there are good reasons why this is not done.

This is India. Don't be sure of anything.  Smile
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
kkfla737
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:54 am

BOM in its current state is nothing short of a nat'l embarrassment. I've spoken to many westerners whose first impression of India is the filthy, polluted, dysfunctional terminal @ SantaCruz. Hopefully, the booming aviation sector in India and the model airport in Cochin gives us hope for a new more functional Mumbai. Also, on a somewhat related topic, must India continue to keep Int'l and domestic terminals segregated? The whole concept of a hub/spoke system would be much more efficient with integrated terminals.
 
lh477
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:28 am

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 15):
Logic doesn't always work in India....
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
lh477
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:29 am

sorry about previous misquote...still trying to figure

Adding to Sean's quote....Logic doesn't always work in India
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:07 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 2):
My friend George, who was travelling by road from BOM to Goa, told me that at some place "well it is neare Navasheva which is where the largest cargo ships that come to Mumbai dock around there"
After inquiring around the wherabouts i found out that it is some 20kms from Panvel---very far from the current one

As Karan stated.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 14):
But I am sure there are good reasons why this is not done.

Rnwy 32 usage for Landing can only be done in day due "Trombay hill",its used 10% of the time & the rest 90% is Rnwy 14 speaking of 14-32.
Where as the normal 27 is used & at time 09.
Remember the problem of the Control tower constructed too near 14-32 still exists so unless 09-27 is Blocked,14-32 would not be used.
Back tracking from 32dumbell wastes a lot of time.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
WestWing
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:04 am

They constructed a new ATCT so close to runway 14/32 that it affects operations on that runway ? Wow !  eyepopping  .
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:11 am

BTW has someone read/seen Newsweek's very interesting report covering the city of Mumbai in this week's issue ??
The main report picture was shot from a place (a township) close to the airport. It told that it was common for people arriving in BOM to see the locals relieving themselves on the hills adjacent to the runway while their plane was queuing to line up/vacate the runway.

Well, the report itself was covering Mumbai's problems in general but focused on how the arrival at Mumbai Intl airport could be challenging for the newcomer.

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
WestWing
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:28 am

The text of the Newsweek story that the previous poster refers to may be read here.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:32 pm

Quoting WestWing (Reply 20):
They constructed a new ATCT so close to runway 14/32 that it affects operations on that runway ? Wow !

Thats happened at Chennai too  Smile
Too bad We cant lift it & move it 50 meters away.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
WestWing
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting LH477 (Thread starter):
they should ... build in the sea

The airport diagram tells us that VABB is located at 19N, 73W , which is already in the sea, midway between Florida and Puerto Rico.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
WestWing
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:41 am

...between Florida and Puerto Rico... Or, to be more precise, just offshore Haiti.

Does the ATCT proximity issue to runway 14/32 affect only arrivals, or does it affect departures also ?

On the MAA and BOM control towers... of course the runway issues should have been known before the towers were built. However, were the new MAA and BOM control towers constucted simultaneously ? If not, the lessons learned from the earlier of the two surely ought to have alerted people to the possiblility of the issue at the other site.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:49 pm

Quoting WestWing (Reply 25):
were the new MAA and BOM control towers constucted simultaneously

Exactly.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 25):
Does the ATCT proximity issue to runway 14/32 affect only arrivals, or does it affect departures also ?

Arrivals are critical,A Pilot buddy once told me When He Initially seen the Tower besides the Runway on Approach He thought it was a Rain cloud,before they came nearer.
 Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Mon May 02, 2005 7:35 pm

There is a lot of Space Around the South side Of the 32 runway.There is work in progress on the North side of Runway 32 though.
Will take a long time though.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
NYC777
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Mon May 02, 2005 10:23 pm

The airport as a whole and security is an abomination. When I arrived at BOM a couple of years back I was astonished to find my mother, who had come to pick me up, waiting for me...in baggage claim of the international terminal. She said she just walked past the security guard and all the customs officials as she was looking for me. No one challenged her! I guess if she continued on past immigration she would have made it to the boarding area!

Now the airport itself is such a mess. You have the international terminal on the west side and the domestic terminal on the east side so making connections has go to be a nightmare. The facilities are downright filthy...I remrmber the current domestic terminal being used for itnernational departures over 30 years ago and it still seems like it's stuck in the 70s!

What they need to is perhaps build a mega terminal on the northside of the airport (where the hangars are) which caters to all airlines and allows seemless transfers between international and domestic flights. Also they need to bring in shops/restaurants/and eateries. Ane please, PLEAES keep the place clean. I'm always keeping my private functions in a holding pattern until after the captain turns off the seat belt sign. The restrooms are filthy and I would just puke lookingat them!
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
mrniji
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Mon May 02, 2005 10:55 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 28):
The restrooms are filthy and I would just puke lookingat them!

This might sound discriminating: sorry in advance.. but I get pissed when these AAI officials and laborers use the loos.. they leave them in a condition which is inacceptable.. I doubt that any traveller wants to use them after one of these babus has used them.. it is a shame
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
B742
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Mon May 02, 2005 11:22 pm

BOM can't currently handle any VS A340-600's on a daily basis due to their length! So yes BOM needs a major expansion!

Rob!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Mon May 02, 2005 11:25 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 28):
What they need to is perhaps build a mega terminal on the northside of the airport (where the hangars are) which caters to all airlines and allows seemless transfers between international and domestic flights

The Problem would be getting City side Access to the Terminal.....Get rid of the Votebank.Which Politician would do that  Smile

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 29):
but I get pissed when these AAI officials and laborers use the loos.. they leave them in a condition which is inacceptable

Agreed,But also there are no seperate Toilets provided for Airport staff on the Domestic side,except for 9W & BD.The rest of the Airline staff use the Facilities.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
snehnath
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Tue May 03, 2005 12:07 am

I really do not think that the airport needs to move. Sure, both the international and domestic terminals need to be torn down, and space needs to be optimized to provide for more gates and an easier domestic to international interconnection. Lots of airports in the USA have successfully run much busier operations from a single runway. SAN for instance probably handles twice the number of flights as BOM does. However, I do agree the the sights one sees on the landing pattern are a disgrace, especially one one flies low over Ghatkopar, Asalpha and Jari Mari.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Does BOM Need To Expand/Move?

Tue May 03, 2005 1:30 am

I wonder if there are other Airports with Houses/Huts touching the Perimeter wall other than Mumbai.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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