AeroWesty
Topic Author
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:17 am

It's just a short, quick article at Reuters giving a positive outlook for the 787 joining the AA fleet "down the road."
"We're very intrigued and excited about the 787," said Gerard Arpey in a conference call with analysts, adding that: "Our immediate issue and desire is to drive the 700 plus planes we have to profitability."

http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuot...05-04-20_19-03-28_n20222366_newsml
International Homo of Mystery
 
NYC777
Posts: 5065
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:34 am

Well, duh! Fuel and labor will always be the highest cost for any airline so they can't worry about buying the 787 until they can be profitable. Thatwill really rankle the rank and file and the shareholders. If they do survive the next year or so then I can totally see them putting an oder in two to three years from now.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
piedmontnut
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:56 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:40 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
they can't worry about buying the 787 until they can be profitable

Agreed...

Someone at AA should be slapped for even thinking about purchasing / leasing new planes whilst the company is in such financial straits. Tisk tisk...

Just my opinion, no offense intended.
May the A380 arrive @ MCO in the near future.
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2118
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:49 am

Quoting Piedmontnut (Reply 2):
Someone at AA should be slapped for even thinking about purchasing / leasing new planes whilst the company is in such financial straits. Tisk tisk

No suprise here, and no one should be slapped.

AA will have to look at fleet renewal in the future, as all airlines do. The potential cost savings of a 787 would of course interest AA.

Also he said that the present focus was on attaining profitability with their current fleet.

Management must look at both the short and long term.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 3932
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:00 am

"If they do survive the next year or so then I can totally see them putting an oder in two to three years from now."

If they survive? AA is the strongest out of the Legacies. And don't tell me about CO being stronger. They are a much smaller airline and own nothing.

If AA dies, there will be many dead airlines before it.

PJ
 
boeingbus
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 12:37 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Pla

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:09 am

I must agree with JFKLGANYC... you have to give AA some credit after suffering a termendous loss during 9/11, and having the size that it has such as amount of planes, people, assets, and compound that with all of the fuel costs, debts, and inflation.. AA management is doing mighty good job. They could of, would of, should of done it better but considering all the factors listed... Kudos to AA. Can't wait to see AA 787's in a new livery...
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:11 am

Given the issues with fuel costs, there is even a stronger case for AA to order the 787. Hence why CO already ordered them and NW is ordering them even during times of loss
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
A388
Posts: 7159
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:21 am

I would bet that AA will eventually order the 787 and it will be a massive order (replacement for their current AB6/757/767 fleet). How big would an AA order be for the 787, something in the range of 100 plus 50 options or more? Wow, interesting..... Big grin

A388
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13174
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:24 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 4):
They are a much smaller airline and own nothing.

How about one (if not the) most profitable hub in the US, from EWR they Connect nonstop to 22-24 destinations in Europe, Beijing, Hong Kong, Tokyo, New Dehli, Tel Aviv, Shanghai ('07), Sao Paulo, Bogota, Caracas, Lima, Guayaquil, Quito, Panama City , San Jose, San Salvador, Guatemala City, Belize City, San Pedro Sula, Mexico City, 8 Cities in Canada (St. John, Halifax, Quebec City, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver) and numerous destinations across the US.

There's no major hub in the US which comes close to matching the diverse network CO has at EWR.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:27 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
I would bet that AA will eventually order the 787 and it will be a massive order (replacement for their current AB6/757/767 fleet).

The 787 is not at all a replacement for the 752 fleet at AA. No matter how light and efficient they are, they are still a widebody with more than 20,000 more pounds of thrust than the 752 and are going to burn more fuel. Additionally, they carry far more passengers. They also don't have the same kind of take off performance. The AB6 and 767 are, however, prime targets. Many AA 763s will stick around for a while, however, as some are on the line of 2-3 years old

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
How big would an AA order be for the 787, something in the range of 100 plus 50 options or more?

Likely not that high to start, as they could not afford the commitment deposits or arrange the financing
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Lemurs
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:13 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:47 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
There's no major hub in the US which comes close to matching the diverse network CO has at EWR.

That may be true, and personally I agree that CO is in a strong position, but JFKGANYC is still right in terms of their overall security. CO is in a much more tenuous position than AA, because AA has huge assets to go with their debt. CO just has risks, hence why they needed labor concessions so badly.

They're a well operated airline, but they're at the mercy of the market more others. That said, they have more to gain as well with an upturn...risk-reward, etc...
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:48 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
"Our immediate issue and desire is to drive the 700 plus planes we have to profitability."

it doesn't help flying 757's and 767's 1/2-2/3 empty from ORD-SFO.... sarcastic 
"Up the Irons!"
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Pla

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
How about one (if not the) most profitable hub in the US,

They don't own their Newark hub, they own the planes that fly there and, in a few cases, route authorites (whose value varies widely, very few are extremely valuable).
a.
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1558
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:56 am

When, not if, AA places an order with Boeing for the 787 my best estimate would be for 22-30 frames at first, with options for 68-80 additional examples.

Let's go back and visit this one more time (hahaha!) The A-300-600's are cash machines and as long there are ways to fly them cheaper (low lease rates) than new 787 (or 777's) on Caribbean/Latin American routes AA will. Yes eventually they have to go, but Airbus will give them a great deal to renew the leases even for a short (3-7 yrs) time frame. What would they do with 34 used (really used!) frames? Besides IIRC there are some units with only 12-14 yrs into the leases. So those have 6-8 or so left before even a deal to extend a few years depending on finances.

Some believe that the 777 is too big for the current A300 routes..Maybe at this time. But if traffic growth continues climbing up that idea may have to be reexamined. A lower lease cost 777 might be more profitable on some routes than a new 787. Depends on fuel/fares, etc.

So, the first 787's will probably replace the oldest 762ERs in my thinking. New comfort for transcon service. Then next the first batch of 763's to be replaced. Then the rest over time. Yes, remember the newest 763's are just a couple of years old (ordered to replace the TWA 767's). Also the newest 757's are just a couple of years older than that, ordered back in 98 or 99 to replace the Reno Air Mad Dogs, 22 units as I recall. The 757 will be around for a long time.

OK..IMHO!!, an order for the future placed by late this year for first delivery in mid-late 2008. The last 767/757 won't be off the property until 2020-2022 or so unless oil goes to $90-100, then all bets are off.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13174
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
They don't own their Newark hub,

They own the lease on the 70+ gates, which is the same as being a home owner yet having a mortgage. It can be sold, even though technically someone (bank, mortgage lender) owns the note.

They also own Air Mic which has landing slots and rights at some of the busiest Asian airports, including 8 Destinations in Japan.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1032
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:28 am

AA will order the 787 that is for sure and I'm sure Boeing will give them a great deal and would not be surprised if they order within the next couple of months. They prob would have their first delivery start around 2010 with the option of speeding up deliveries or slowing them down depending on their condition. They would order now to get the delivery slots that's all. I would imagine that they order around 50 firm with the option of around 150 more. They will replace all the 767/A300's. Now the 757 is up in the air if Boeing doesn't make a new 737 to replace the 757 then I think the 757 would go 50% to 787 and 50% to the 737. This would cost a ton of money but would also save them a ton with the fleet type reduction and fuel savings. Just by 2 cents so don't blast me about AA not having any money
 
SLUAviator
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:30 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:45 am

At what point does not ordering a plane begin to hurt you? Big airlines around the world are beginning to buy it, and more importantly one US legacy carrier has, and a second is soon to follow. Will passengers take that into account when shopping for tickets? Does AA feel the need to order now so they are also "in the club" especially in light of the press coverage of the NW deal? Can't they order now with delivery slots beginning in the 2012-2015 range? What will it cost them? If AA said we are going to buy 80+ units (and Boeing must know they will have a need for that many), how about we give you 10% of the deposit and pay off the balance over the next few years, you would have to be crazy to say no to that if you are Boeing. AA gets to announce new planes for delivery down the line when they are in better financial shape, and it costs them very little now. Boeing likes it for the obvious reason. Its a good deal for both AA and Boeing. I think it is something they need to do and something they will do by the end of the year.
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Pla

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:04 am

Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 13):

Some believe that the 777 is too big for the current A300 routes..Maybe at this time. But if traffic growth continues climbing up that idea may have to be reexamined.

AA's A300s seat about 30 people more than their 777s. The 777s are certainly not to big for those routes. AA's A300 have more seats than any other planes in their fleet. The 777, however, cannot profitably operate a short hop like MIA-PAP, while the A300 can. The A300 is designed to carry a lot of people and passengers on very short hops.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
They own the lease on the 70+ gates, which is the same as being a home owner yet having a mortgage. It can be sold, even though technically someone (bank, mortgage lender) owns the note.

That is true.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):

They also own Air Mic which has landing slots and rights at some of the busiest Asian airports, including 8 Destinations in Japan.

The only valuable landing slots are Narita. Nothing else.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):

it doesn't help flying 757's and 767's 1/2-2/3 empty from ORD-SFO....

Only one SFO-ORD flight is a 763. The rest are M80/M83s.
a.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8548
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:12 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
AA's A300s seat about 30 people more than their 777s.

That's because of configuration density, the 772ER is configured with lots of premium seats versus the A300 with mostly economy seats. OEW for the A300-600 is about 198klb versus 310klb for a 772ER.

The 777 can fly 1000nm sectors profitably, you just won't sell premium sleeper seats for a 2.5 hours flight.

Quoting RIPCORDD (Reply 15):
AA will order the 787 that is for sure and I'm sure Boeing will give them a great deal and would not be surprised if they order within the next couple of months

Why would Boeing do that? There is little to no probability of an A350 order, so why unnecessarily slash prices? Orders are coming in at a steady pace, so why cut into your own profit for a near-term order?

Have we all forgot the lesson of the 772ER: if you can charge a premium, do it!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:21 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
They own the lease on the 70+ gates, which is the same as being a home owner yet having a mortgage. It can be sold, even though technically someone (bank, mortgage lender) owns the note.

Actually, that is ownership. If you LEASE something, it is rented from somewhere else. Sure, PANYNJ has given CO very long term leases, but it is PANYNJ who "owns" the lease. CO just pays the leases and has the rights to those gates.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
AA's A300s seat about 30 people more than their 777s. The 777s are certainly not to big for those routes. AA's A300 have more seats than any other planes in their fleet.

Well, being in a configuration with Domestic F with maybe 40"-42" of pitch and Y class pitch of 31" as opposed to Flat beds in F, almost flat seats with massive pitch in J and 34" pitch Y makes a huge difference. You can, if you want, fit 440 seats in a 772ER, whereas you can only max an A300 out at maybe 300. There is a massive difference in floor space. I am surprised you would make that mistake, after seeing how intelligent most of your posts are. If AA had their 777s in the same configuration as their A300s, you would be talking 350-380 seats.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 18):
The 777 can fly 1000nm sectors profitably, you just won't sell premium sleeper seats for a 2.5 hours flight.

Well, theoretically perhaps, though a 772ER may not enjoy the pounding of that kind of flying (much like the QF and MH A330s have had problems with). Even though the 772A and 773A have proven hardy, the structural changes for the longer haul models would likely make short hauls not their most favorite thing. Still, AA flies 772ERs every day on LAX-DFW
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13174
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:27 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
Actually, that is ownership. If you LEASE something, it is rented from somewhere else. Sure, PANYNJ has given CO very long term leases, but it is PANYNJ who "owns" the lease. CO just pays the leases and has the rights to those gates.

CO leases Terminal C from the Port Authority, and the Port Authority leases the airport from the City of Newark who owns the land.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Fleet Service
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 11:58 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Pla

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting Piedmontnut (Reply 2):
Someone at AA should be slapped for even thinking about purchasing / leasing new planes whilst the company is in such financial straits. Tisk tisk...

Tell me smart guy, is Continental in any better shape than AMR to be actually ordering new aircraft?

Maybe you should be slapping those folks as well eh?After all, they ended the quarter with about half of the cash AMR did and somehow they were able to order ten 787's...


Better yet, which US legacy carrier is in any condition to be ordering the 787 in the current environment?
Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:49 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 20):
CO leases Terminal C from the Port Authority, and the Port Authority leases the airport from the City of Newark who owns the land.

Nice trade. Thanks for the head up on Newark owning the land
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:50 pm

Im glad to hear some word from AA finally, at least a comment that they are indeed interested. (yeah, we all kind of knew, but nice to hear the CEO talk about it!). I think its gonna be quite a while till we see AA order the 787, but they will indeed order them soon. Remember, AA is still doing better than other majors... so hopefully they will soon be in a position to order, at least a few, to put their foot in the door.

Why has ILFC not ordered any 787's yet for lease?

-AA777
 
ckfred
Posts: 4694
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:53 pm

First of all, AA signed an agreement with Boeing around 1998 for production slots over a 20-year period. I don't recall the exact number, but it was roughly equal to the size of the fleet at the time, around 625 planes.

At that time prices were set for Boeing aircraft in production, and I assume that there are provisions for cost increases over time. As for new aircraft models, there is contract language that covers pricing. So, my guess is that AA already has a good idea of the price that it will pay for 787s.

A friend of mine is an AA pilot, and he can't wait for AA to put in the order, for one good reason. He figures that by the time AA starts taking delivery, he will have enough seniority to fly the 787.

AA is in a very good position, because the bulk of the purchase price for an aircraft is paid once a plane starts down the production line. AA would not need to put up much cash to secure deliveries for say 2010 or later. And AA has the cash. The 1Q results announced today included AA's cash balance, which is in excess of $3.5 billion.

The obvious choices for replacement are the A300s and the 767s. I don't see the 787 replacing 757s, but I could see 757s being pulled off trans-Atlantic, transcon, and some long-haul routes and replaced with 787s.
 
galapagapop
Posts: 861
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:18 pm

AA did ilk out a operational profit this Quarter, despite fuel. Its just interest that got em'. I'd say by the end of the summer they'll be sitting pretty for an order announcement. This is not suprise as 1) AA is still disputing flight 581 with Airbus and will not order an Airbus in the future 2) The 787 is the only plane that can replace those A300's and older 767's 3) The fact that the 767 will be starting to hit 20 (older ones) in 2008-2010, not to mention the 40 or so A300's leave in 2008 and 2009. It can be said that AA probably has some refundable slots for 787's so they can recieve some in 08' or 09' seeing as by then they should be fine (as long as fuel doesn't hit $70 per barrel).
 
gift4tbone
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:25 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:02 pm

I'd like to put my 2 cents in here.

I do not usually pay too much attention to AA, as i don't fly them; high fares, and have never heard much good about their domestic service- FAs, etc. And in my opinion they are an older airline. It doesnt look to me like they have done much to change with the times. They still have that-I believe its 20-30+ year old livery, they still fly the A300s!!!!! That fact alone, amazes me. Yes, yes i know they are profitable for AA's carribean and S. american routes, but The A300 has had so many problems, its a wonder American Airlines, THE legacy carrier still has them. Plus their 250+ fleet of md80s, are getting old quick, and i give them credit for a small order for 738s, but i see very little of their 738s, and i dont believe they have any more on order?

So if AA orders the 787 I see that as a step in the right direction. Now they need a new livery, something bold. And probable work on their customer service, and they'd be golden.

-Tony@PVD

p.s. Could someone tell me what 'IIRC' means?
Top 3 airports: PVD 23.9%(138 flights), PHL 14.7%(85 flights), PHX 10.2%(59 flights)
 
ghost77
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:13 pm

Quoting Gift4tbone (Reply 26):
p.s. Could someone tell me what 'IIRC' means?

If I Recall Correct!


Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
gift4tbone
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:25 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:15 pm

Ghost77,

Thanks, ive been wondering that for a while now.

-Tony@PVD
Top 3 airports: PVD 23.9%(138 flights), PHL 14.7%(85 flights), PHX 10.2%(59 flights)
 
ckfred
Posts: 4694
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:30 pm

Gift4tbone:

As old as the AA livery is, it doesn't look outdated and is instantly recognized. Despite the fact that changing liveries and logos isn't expensive, since liveries are changed when planes are due for painting (or for polishing in AA's case), employees will say that the cost of creating a new livery and logo could be better spent elsewhere.

Considering that AA does not have a great history of employee relations, I can see management not wanting to rock the boat at this time.

Personally, I think AA's in-flight service is as good as any other carrier, and better than UA. A friend of mine used to be an F/A with AA, and she was shocked at some of the things that UA F/As were doing 10 years ago, in terms of procedures for meal and beverage service.

As for the A300s, a friend of mine is an AA pilot. There are 1 reason why AA flies the A300. It hauls a lot of cargo. The 767-300 haul's significantly less cargo, and the 777-200 is more expensive to fly on Carribean routes and has too much seating capacity, compared to the A300's configuration, which is 2-class with a lot of coach seats.

The reason that AA flies so many MD-80s is that many of them are paid for, they still have a lot of cycles left, and they still are reasonable in terms of operational costs.

The first group of MD-80s were delivered in 1983, so they are about 22 years old, but then, many NW's DC-9s are over 30 years old.

The other issue for AA is the lack of a 100-seat airplane. Since the F100 retirement, AA has a big gap between the 70-seat CRJ and the 136-seat MD-80. Management has said that this is a problem, so buying aircraft to replace the F100s may be a higher priority than replacing perfectly good MD-80s.
 
gift4tbone
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:25 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 29):
The other issue for AA is the lack of a 100-seat airplane. Since the F100 retirement, AA has a big gap between the 70-seat CRJ and the 136-seat MD-80. Management has said that this is a problem, so buying aircraft to replace the F100s may be a higher priority than replacing perfectly good MD-80s.

OK, this sounds like a plan, but the 717, is out of production at the end of this year i believe? if its not already. (and i know boeing isnt taking any more orders), so what does that leave AA with? The a318?

-Tony@PVD
Top 3 airports: PVD 23.9%(138 flights), PHL 14.7%(85 flights), PHX 10.2%(59 flights)
 
aeronuts
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:47 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:00 pm

It's taken way out of content. It said nothing. It's one statement in a conference call. What came before and what came afterward? He could have been asked "What is AA's position about the rumored NWA's 787 deal"

and his response was

"We're very intrigued and excited about the 787. Our immediate issue and desire is to drive the 700 plus planes we have to profitability."
 
Fleet Service
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 11:58 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:30 pm

Quoting Gift4tbone (Reply 30):
so what does that leave AA with? The a318?

AMR management dreams of E170 and E190's operated on mainline routes at Eagle rates.  irked 

As much sense as a fuel efficent customer friendly aircraft like the 717 would make to bridge to gap between E145 and S80, management is dead set on adding another type to the fleet with the associated costs it would bring.

The 717 was an ideal F100 replacement and it would have allowed us to keep a larger ammount of mainline service in STL, as well as transition some Eagle routes back to mainline in other cities.
Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
 
rsob
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:58 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:24 pm

I met an AA pilot, who flies the 757/767 and also does training for new pilots, on a cruise last September and asked him about the 787. He said then, that AA had already been looking at and was making plans to purchase the 787 as a 757/767 replacement. He didn't mention the A300, but I'd imagine the 787 would replace those as well. Probably just a matter and time and of course, money.

Rick
 
LY4XELD
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:14 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:13 pm

Quoting Gift4tbone (Reply 26):
And in my opinion they are an older airline. It doesnt look to me like they have done much to change with the times. They still have that-I believe its 20-30+ year old livery, they still fly the A300s!!!!! That fact alone, amazes me.

AA *is* an old airline...what's your point? Just because the livery is old, as Ckfred said, doesn't mean squat for operations/profitability, etc. The marketing campaigns have kept up with the times, and that's the first thing that draws people in. As for the A300's, why does this amaze you? Their cargo capacity is why we keep 'em. I'd me more amazed that NW paid for their DC-9's and then flew them forever!

As for the 787, it would make sense as a new a/c for AA also considering the engines would be RR, and we already fly Trents on the 777.
That's why we're here.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4694
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:29 pm

Gift4tbone:

There are 2 obvioous choices for the F100 replacement. There is the Embrear 170/190 and the Boeing 737-600/700.

The problem with the Embrear is that it is a completely new aircraft type. Then comes the issue of who flies it (Eagle or mainline) and at what payscale.

While the 737-600 would be easy to add to the fleet, it's, from what I've read on other threads, not an inexpensive plane to fly on short-haul routes. The fact that WestJet is going to fly several in eastern Canada may prove that belief is wrong. The -700 would also be easy to add to the fleet, but it may be too big.
 
piedmontnut
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:56 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:34 pm

Quoting Fleet Service (Reply 21):
Tell me smart guy, is Continental in any better shape than AMR to be actually ordering new aircraft?

Maybe you should be slapping those folks as well eh?After all, they ended the quarter with about half of the cash AMR did and somehow they were able to order ten 787's...


Better yet, which US legacy carrier is in any condition to be ordering the 787 in the current environment?

First of all, if you would have bothered to read my whole post you should have noted that I said, "Just my opinion, no offense intended". If I would have been a member here when CO placed their order for the 787 I would have said something similar.

No, in my opinion CO in not in any better shape than AA. Again, I was just sharing my opinion. You should really try more fiber in your diet. Or at the least be more willing to accept other people's views if you agree with said view(s) or not.

Kindest Regards.
May the A380 arrive @ MCO in the near future.
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:09 am

Everytime I talk with my buddy at AA, his conversations and tone get more and more depressing as far as the future of AA is concerned. They are bleeding money daily and are still making necessary concessions to survive.

Not making a profit = no new a/c types.

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 7982
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:21 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
How big would an AA order be for the 787, something in the range of 100 plus 50 options or more? Wow, interesting.....

You might not be pretty far off. The 787 not only will replace the 767-200 and older 767-300's, but can also be used for international flight expansion. I wouldn't be surprised that AA asks Boeing to develop a Lite version of the 787-9 that will replace the A300B4-600R's now in AA service.
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:26 am

Good observation Ray, but AA has said before and in this website it's been posted a few times that they don't plan on retiring their Airbus fleet now. They are profitable for them and the rudder snafu has been swept under the rug a few times.

I more than anyone want to see the 787 in that shiny silver livery.  Smile

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 7982
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:30 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 39):
but AA has said before and in this website it's been posted a few times that they don't plan on retiring their Airbus fleet now. They are profitable for them and the rudder snafu has been swept under the rug a few times.

I have to disagree. The AA AB6 fleet is so heavily used on Caribbean routes that they are running up serious amounts of airframe life on their fleet, and by 2010 they may be too expensive to do C/D-check overhauls. Besides, a "Lite" 787-9 not only would be clean and new planes, but the CASM will probably be quite a bit lower compared to the AB6.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:19 am

The B 787s fits in perfectly with AAs future fleet plans as the AB6s can be replaced by the high density B 787-300s and the B 763ERs by B 787-800s and the same goes for the B 762s.
 
galapagapop
Posts: 861
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:48 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 37):
Everytime I talk with my buddy at AA, his conversations and tone get more and more depressing as far as the future of AA is concerned. They are bleeding money daily and are still making necessary concessions to survive.

Not making a profit = no new a/c types.

Regards.

Well if thats the case at AA I wonder what its like at UA or US? AA is in the best position of the big 6, UA in BK, US in BK, DL going to BK, CO losing more money that AA, NW in money issues as well. But seeing as CO and NW (or thats what it will be) can order 787's, AA could start with 10-20 and some options, no need for 50 as in ANA's case (although they could use em'). As they could simplify the fleet to 737, 757, 777, 787, MD-80 and drop 767's and A300's. They can use the -3 domestically to replace the -200's on the transcons and -8's elsewhere. I don't see them ordering the -9 however, unless Boeing refuses to stretch it further. AA could quite possibly go with 73G's or 736's but I still don't see it. A 737 replacment which may be aimed at up to the 757 size will replace the 757, 737, and those mAAd dogs. Leaving room for AA to add a 100 seater of some sorts.

And as for AA's livery. Shame on you non-believers. At least AA doesn't have some Euro-White peice of crap livery like UA. And their livery looks better and better on the newer types of aircraft, like the 757 and 738's and even look better than when they were on the 727's. AA's livery could easily last forever....
 
Querosene
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2001 4:52 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:13 am

Quoting Galapagapop (Reply 42):
And as for AA's livery. Shame on you non-believers. At least AA doesn't have some Euro-White peice of crap livery like UA. And their livery looks better and better on the newer types of aircraft, like the 757 and 738's and even look better than when they were on the 727's. AA's livery could easily last forever....

I think that the composite skin of the 787 can not be polished.

I wonder what will AA do....
 
galapagapop
Posts: 861
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:29 am

Quoting Querosene (Reply 43):
I think that the composite skin of the 787 can not be polished.

I wonder what will AA do....

But if I recall that was a problem on the A300's as well, I though they made some sort of shell or something to apply the ploshed metal look to. I think Boeing will come up with something for AA seeing as they did sign a contract with them and have 400+ unused slots for deliveries with Boeing....
 
Lemurs
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:13 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:29 am

Quoting Querosene (Reply 43):
I think that the composite skin of the 787 can not be polished.

I wonder what will AA do....

Exposed (laminated for protection of course) carbon fibre is a very hot look in the auto/cycle world. It'd be pretty sweet if some airline could manage that into their livery. I doubt Boeing would allow it, but one can always imagine...  Cool
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:32 am

The A300s were painted grey, until Airbus agreed to certify the AlClad hull only polished.

They can just paint the 7E7s grey.

N
 
n844aa
Posts: 1266
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:38 am

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:16 am

Quoting Galapagapop (Reply 42):
And as for AA's livery. Shame on you non-believers. At least AA doesn't have some Euro-White peice of crap livery like UA. And their livery looks better and better on the newer types of aircraft, like the 757 and 738's and even look better than when they were on the 727's. AA's livery could easily last forever....

Yeah, I love the way an AA 727 looks, but damn, the livery looks good on a 738 -- almost like the plane was designed for that livery.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
tockeyhockey
Posts: 880
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:57 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:30 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
Given the issues with fuel costs, there is even a stronger case for AA to order the 787. Hence why CO already ordered them and NW is ordering them even during times of loss

it doesn't matter what they would save with the 787! that's like saying, i know we have no cash, but let's spend $100 million today to save $5 million a year in the future because of increased efficiency. that makes no sense from a cash flow point of view.

no major airline is going to create long term savings through up front expenditures right now. the only one able to do so was WN, when they invested in winglets.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: AMR CEO Says Boeing 787 May Fit With Fleet Plan

Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:30 am

The 787, in there proposed versions, would be an excellent fit for AA. JFK/EWR - LAX/SFO widebody transcon, to eventually replace the A-300's on key routes where that have an advantage and down the line in years will be due for replacment; some of their older 767's will be due for replacement as well, current and anticipated South America services; several Euro routes and more flights/frequency for expansion, especially for international routes; and of course Asian routes. As to paying for them, well, probably a purchase/leaseback deal with GE, other investment companies could happen.
At least AA is considering their future, not just concerned with treading water.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alfa164, B757Forever, Baidu [Spider], CCFA, CDG777FAN, csturdiv, GavinSharp, hoons90, iahcsr, JetBuddy, rg828, tjh8402, Viscount724 and 299 guests