toltommy
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Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:37 pm

"Mesaba Aviation, Inc., a subsidiary company of MAIR Holdings, Inc. (NASDAQ:MAIR - News), today announced that it has signed a letter of intent with Northwest Airlines to operate 15 Bombardier CRJ-200 regional jets under the Northwest Airlink banner, with exclusive rights to the next 20 CRJ-200 or CRJ-440 aircraft Northwest Airlines may order. Mesaba will lease the aircraft from Northwest Airlines and expects the first aircraft to enter service before the end of 2005."

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050422/225054.html?.v=1
 
NWADC9
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:43 pm

Question: WHY!?!??!?!?!??!??!?!??!?!?!??!?!?
Pinnacle already operates them. Why would we need XJ to operate the same thing?
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
flyinryan99
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:48 pm

From the way the article sounded, XJ will not continue operating the Avros and the Saabs. Could this CRJ agreement possibly lead to a CR7 order to replace the Avros? They have similar type ratings, so less training costs, etc right (please correct me if I'm wrong)? I think the reason why they did this was to keep growing...AZJ would be able to elaborate more on this because it's my understanding that XJ has been in a holding pattern (so to speak) on growth. I think it's good for XJ to finally see something positive for them.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:10 pm

What new aircraft for Mesaba?????? No it can't be true.
Finally.
With all the rumors, lies, side-deals going on, this "Big Friday announcement" was rumored to happen about two months ago. Stuff has been brewing over at XJ for a while with a lot of new hiring at the pilot, FA, training dept, and management level.

No, the Saab's & Avro's are not going away. 15 CRJ's do not replace 35 ARJ's and 63 Saabs. What it does say it that the operating agreement that dictates the terms of payments for the Avro's & Saabs will continue as they are until those contracts are up at their respective dates in 2007. From that point forward, the operating terms of those aircraft will fall under the same terms that dictate payment for flying that states it will be based upon the average operating margin for all publicly held regionals. NW maintains the leases on 25 of the Avro's and 49 Saabs (B+). NW owns 10 of the Avro's. Those aircraft are subleased to XJ. The remaining 14 Saabs (A & B's) are leased directly by XJ from other leasing companies. Leases run through 2007+ for the Avro's, and the Saabs (B+) are on lease through 2010-2012.

Could this be a precursor to the CR7's? Maybe, maybe not, but nothing has been decided in terms of the 70 seat scope clause yet. Pinnacle's current order for CRJ's is up later this year, and NW wants them to keep on coming. 9E is approaching contract time, and NW is starting up its negotiating tactics. Basically stating that its not playing favorites with its regionals....shrink one, grow another. They don't want to get stuck in the all eggs in one basket case, should 9E have any work action.

The downside.....this doesn't necessary look good for more mainline flying, and the CRJ haters out there.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:20 pm

Thanks PSU...I didn't think XJ was going to throw those Saabs out the door. I honestly like their role in the NW network. It allows NW to keep flying to a lot of cities that UA and AA have quit flying to because of the RJs.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:28 pm

No!!!!!! No more CR2's !!!!!!!


But seriously, if XJ were to go after an Avro replacement, is the E170 not superior to the CR7?
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:33 pm

70 seaters are a non-issue for now, until mainline pilots & management work out the scope clause. Yes, in most respects the E-170 is superior, but it depends on the mission.

I find it interesting, although not surprised, and I am glad that they will get new-build CRJ's. At least they aren't getting some of the former DH aircraft.
 
146crew
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:41 pm

I thought that the NW pilots concessionary agreement stated all future RJ orders would have to go to a third operator? Are these RJ already on order? Correct me if I'm wrong (I know someone will anyway!  Smile ) Thanks.
Cross check complete.
 
UN_B732
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:51 pm

Former DH aircraft? Did DH fold?
What now?
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:05 am

DH sold some CRJ's to SkyWest. They haven't folded, but they don't have all the CRJs they once had.
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:52 am

Just a bump for those who cannot scroll down and make new threads....
 
xjramper
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:10 am

Ill post my reply from my thread:

Just noticed this...but when i did a search nothing came up. Sorry bout that.
Suggesting deletion. Thanks


XJR


XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:21 am

No, the new concessionary contract did not specifically state that all future RJ's would go to a 3rd Airlink. Although it did allow for that option in the future. The thinking was that if UA or US closed up shop that NW could quickly jump into markets and rapidly ramp up operations to pick up lucrative routes. The other thinking is that with the current musical chairs of regional feed providers that is going on in the industry, that someone would be looking for a home, and would operate cheaply just to stay in business. With all the events that have materialized as of late, that doesn't look to be the case. US will be sticking around for a while, DH still keeping their head above water, United giving the boot to AirWhisky, AirWhisky flying for USX, etc, etc, that the 3rd Airlink provision is not needed. The provision for the 3rd Airlink was not for them to order new RJ's, but instead to pick up RJ's without a home on the cheap. With Pinnacle & Mesaba, NW pretty much controls everything, including maintaining the leases on the aircraft. With a 3rd Airlink it would be more or less independent contracted regional feed.

That being said:
Pinnacle currently has around 125 +/- CRJ's with the final delivery count to be 139 (or 138 due to the incident in Missouri last fall).
Mesaba will get 15, bring the total number of CRJ's in the NW system to 154.

That being said, NW could go up to 174 if they exercise the additional 20 options for Mesaba. The question is, how many more 50 seaters can the NW system take, based upon routes and facility constraints. DTW is gonna be packed until next summer with the new rebuilt concourse C opens.
 
NLINK
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:54 am

The Pinnalce total CRJ count will be 137, due to the Missouri and due another one in MKE.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:00 am

Is the MKE incident definetely a write-off now?

Initially the damage estimates were not too bad, when they ran off the runway during landing. The aircraft was still able to taxi to the gate.
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:18 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 12):
The question is, how many more 50 seaters can the NW system take, based upon routes and facility constraints. DTW is gonna be packed until next summer with the new rebuilt concourse C opens.

They don't have to be hub based. NW has been expanding at IND and MKE. These aircraft could be used for more focus city or point to point flying. You are correct that sooner or later the hubs will max out. But I'd imagine that the brain trust at NWA knows what non-hub markets that they could capitalize upon. As someone who just flys NW a lot, I'd love to see a MSP-TOL flight. Maybe with this aircraft, it'll actually happen.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:55 am

I'd rather fly on a Saab than a CR2. At least the Saabs have windows you can actually look out.....
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
NLINK
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:04 am

To my understanding the plane is a write off. The plane is still in a hanger in MKE. I believe there is a couple creases in the fusealage that would not be cost effective to repair.

[Edited 2005-04-22 20:04:48]
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:14 am

Question:
Could NW order a CR7 and take one seat out to get around the clause? Or perhaps configure a first class section of 4 seats which would bring it down to 66 seats?
Personally I would like to see them order the E70, looks like a more comfortable plane. I flew this past winter MSP-PNS in the CRJ, it felt rather cramped for a flight of that duration.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 12):
The question is, how many more 50 seaters can the NW system take, based upon routes and facility constraints. DTW is gonna be packed until next summer with the new rebuilt concourse C opens.

They could also be used to open up some more routes from the MEM hub to mid-sized cities in the midwest such as Fort Wayne, Green Bay, Cedar Rapids, Peoria or upgrading exisiting saab flights to DTW and MSP as well.
 
wingnutmn
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:42 am

Does any of this have anything to do with 9E pilots in negotiations for a new contract??? Reminds me of when XJ was negotiating their pilot contract and NW was threating to remove the ARJ's and discontinue service agreements with XJ. NW really is the dirtiest player in the game!!!!

WingnutMN
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:54 am

CIDFlyer,

No, NW could not order a CR7 and take a seat out. There is scope on everything 45 seats and up. The scope breakdown for the Airlinks as it stands:

44 seats and under: unlimited (hence the CRJ-440)
45-55 seats: restrict to XX number of aircraft (recent concessionary contract raised the number of 50 seat CRJ's allow)
55 - 69 seats: NW mainline flying with the except to grandfather in the 36 Avros (35 in service)
70 seat flying: not allowed at Airlink-mainline flying
 
Indy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:12 am

I am going to take heat for this but here it goes anyway.. lol...

NW is adding 3 more gates in IND to give it a total of 8 this summer. Could they be picking up these extra jets to beef up their IND schedule as I heard rumored they would?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
ouboy79
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:35 am

You know they could always add something to TOL. Sheesh. Not that I mind flying the 20 minutes over the Maumee Bay and western Lake Erie...bumping around the entire way...but MSP and especially MEM would be nice for those of us down south.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:35 am

If the CR2 replaces the S340, will that cut some of the smaller routes? There are a lot of routes too small for a 50 seat jet and they are lucky to get a 34 seat Saab 340 half full. I just wonder if we will see the end of some of those UP Michigan routes like Houghton Hancock, Escanaba etc. Also do some of those airports have long enough runways to handle jets?
 
m404
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:05 am

This from AP yesterday - note the third paragraph

Northwest Airlines Corp., parent of one of the nation's biggest air carriers, said Thursday its loss nearly doubled in the first quarter as price competition weakened revenue and soaring fuel costs continued to batter its results.

The company's loss swelled to $458 million, or $5.28 per share, for the January-March period from $230 million, or $2.67 per share, in the year-ago period. Excluding one-time charges, its adjusted loss was $440 million, or $5.07 per share, Northwest said.

Meanwhile, Northwest's regional carriers took in revenue of $276 million, up 27 percent from $217 million the year before.


I'd like to see a breakdown on losses at the Links
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
pensacolaguy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 18):
flew this past winter MSP-PNS in the CRJ, it felt rather cramped for a flight of that duration.

Yikes, must of not been fun, but it sure beats connecting. No trip report?

As far as Mesaba operating CRJs, good for them, I don't see what the big deal is. Just more CRJs added to the mix.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 23):
I just wonder if we will see the end of some of those UP Michigan routes like Houghton Hancock, Escanaba etc. Also do some of those airports have long enough runways to handle jets?

ive seen a saab take longer to get up than a crj. many times.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:03 am

NASCAR,

Mesaba is not retiring the Saabs. The addition of the CRJ's does not change the fleet plans for the Saabs or Avro's. The B+'s are on long term lease well past 2010. NW/XJ plan on maintaining the Saab fleet in order to serve markets that cannot economically support jets. Like the markets you listed, they will all maintain service. Yes, they do have runways long enough for jets, for the most part, but they will remain Saab. The Saab's allow NW to enter markets that the other airlines do not have the right equipment to service. An example is UA & AA out of ORD, they have nothing less than 40-50 seat RJ's. DL at CVG, smallest is a 50 seat RJ. As more RJ's come online, NW will redeploy the Saab's to service high yield/low traffic markets.

Including in this deal is a 10-year Airline Service Agreement between NW and Mesaba. The only thing that occurs in that in 2007, the terms of payment for Saab & Avro flying will change for the current negotiated contract to reflect the terms of how the CRJ flying will be paid to Mesaba.

To the average passenger this is no big deal, and they will probably not even notice the difference between and Pinnacle or Mesaba CRJ. For XJ this is a big deal. They haven't had a new aircraft delivered since 2000 (other than a dozen second hand Saabs from 9E in 2003.) The CRJ's along with the new service agreement represent a long term agreement between NW & XJ, that is change from how Pinnacle has been NW's baby for the past 5 years.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:49 pm

Quoting Pensacolaguy (Reply 25):
Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 18):
flew this past winter MSP-PNS in the CRJ, it felt rather cramped for a flight of that duration.

Yikes, must of not been fun, but it sure beats connecting. No trip report?

Pensacolaguy, I will admit it did beat making a double connection. I have always been routed when flying NWA CID-MSP-MEM-PNS (or VPS depending which airport I am flying to) and vice versa. Also flew back through DTW on the NW Saturday only nonstop. Both flights to and from PNS were overbooked, but at least the flight from MSP and flight to DTW both arrived about 30 min. ahead of schedule. Can't beat that!
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:43 pm

Quoting M404 (Reply 24):
Meanwhile, Northwest's regional carriers took in revenue of $276 million, up 27 percent from $217 million the year before.

I'd like to see a breakdown on losses at the Links

My understanding is that the regionals don't assume any risk for selling tickets, they only operate the aircraft. Therefore, they don't assume any direct loss. How much revenue did the regional service contribute to the bottom line of the mainline carrier? Thats a much better question....
 
m404
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:07 pm

Thanks Tommy,

That is what I'd like to ask. Or even more pointedly, how much loss. With what you've said one would think it is possible since Pinnacle is now a "publicly" traded company. Did that stock make money? Is that really a barameter? What percent of that stock actually was bought by outsiders?
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:34 pm

M404 -

Go to Yahoo Finance. Mesaba's stock ticker is MAIR, Pinnacle is PNCL. The thing to remember is that both should be treated like other suppliers. They all sell a product to NW, and do so at a level that is profitable for them. The regionals are really no different than another company that sells bag carts to NW, for example. NW hasn't figured out how to make money in the current environment. That doesn't mean that all their suppliers should lose money when providing services to NW.
 
aviatortj
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:33 am

I wonder if this means we will see regs on NW CRJs that are normal, like with the XJ suffix. Just from a photographer's POV, that would be nice.

From a flyer's POV, I really dislike the CRJ and would rather see Q400s or EMBs added on. At least if NW were to pickup the CR7, it has a somewhat more comfortable cabin. I wonder if NWA would use the 62 seat CR7 like UA and have an F class.

All in all, I am glad to see XJ expanding. The have operated a decent product, especially over 9E, so now they can get a few more jobs going on. That's all from the North.

-TJ
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:48 am

Aviator: the 9E CRJ's are reg'd aligned with their ship number. like 8888D is ship 8888 or aircraft s/n 7888. The newest ones have an AY tail.... 824AY is ship 8024 or s/n 8024.


Good luck Mesaba, though. Here comes the whipsawing.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
iowaman
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:04 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 28):
flying NWA CID-MSP-MEM-PNS

Or if they would just start CID-MEM....
 
aviatortj
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:12 am

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 33):
the 9E CRJ's are reg'd aligned with their ship number. like 8888D is ship 8888 or aircraft s/n 7888. The newest ones have an AY tail.... 824AY is ship 8024 or s/n 8024.

XFSU,
Any idea where the letter comes from? Apparently, this is not a big deal, but the four numbers still beats CO's 5 numbers. I haven't seen any AY tails yet, but it should be a good thing to see.

-TJ
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 34):
Or if they would just start CID-MEM....

my sentiments exactly Iowaman. Would love to have non stop access to NWA's southern hub...
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:43 pm

the AY tails are the newest planes. All ships higher than 8968 except 8970 are flaps 8 equipped.


Probably the letters were what was available when they secured the registration to include the ship number. I guess like 8888A was taken..so they moved on up and 8888D was available....

Flew 824AY the other day myself... highest number I've seen so far. Was only a few days old... I love the ones that still have that nice new smell.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:32 pm

I hear at least six MSP-EAU or EAU-MSP flights using SF340's going over my house every day at 4000 to 6000 feet AGL. It would be cool if they were CRJ's!  Big grin

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Indy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:35 am

How many of these do you think could be delivered to IND as part of their service expansion? Provided that the rumors that have been floated are true. NW did pick up 3 extra gates and as of June 9th won't have a schedule any greater than what it is now except maybe 1 or 2 extra flights but 3 gates were added. Someone has posted here plus I was told by a NW agent in IND that they are expanding to 80+ flights. Thats 30 over the current level. If that were true it might explain the extra CRJ's to cover the routes. I would think you'd need quite bit of equipment laying around to cover 30 new flights.

What do you think?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:25 am

It's certainly possible that expansion at IND is in the works, but I wouldn't say that being told by an agent is a credible source of news. You can bet that the revenue folks at NW are looking for non-stop markets from IND that are can support daily service at yields that make sense to the money people. Remember, NW apparently isn't interested in connecting traffic at IND, only O&D traffic.
 
Indy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:00 am

I agree with the news source. But the same info has come from two different places. But even without that NW is operating 50 flights a day from 5 gates. In June they go up to 8 gates without any real change in schedule. They are picking up some new routes but they are also some seasonal service is dropping off so the net change is basically nothing. So without picking up additional flights they are adding 3 gates. That leads me to believe more changes are coming. With everyone being so aware of costs it would seem unlikely they'd add 3 gates without a change in schedule. Those changes plus the addition of the new CRJ's would make sense. It would allow new routes to be added without having to deal with seat configurations of over 100 to marginal markets.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:41 am

Maybe, but it could also be that by taking the gates before they are ready for them, they are simply preventing a competitor from getting the gates. Who know, maybe FL showed some interest?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:59 am

The CRJ's could end up anywhere in the system, although its highly unlikely Mesaba will base any in MEM, at least initially.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:08 pm

Here's some additional information on the CRJ's coming to Mesaba based upon a conference call from management yesterday (4/25/05).

Highlights:
- 1st CRJ delivery in late-September '05, with first revenue flight planned for mid-Oct. '05.
- All deliveries will occur over a 6 month period.
- All 15 CRJ's will be 50 seaters
- Initial pilot training will occur in Canada, beginning in July
- 150 pilots will be hired for the first 15 CRJ's.
- Initial CRJ pilot base will be in MSP.
- Initial plans are for only using the 3 domestic hubs.
- Aircraft will be painted identical to Pinnacle CRJ's, other than the "Operated by Mesaba Airlines" sticker by the passenger door.
- N-numbers will be begin in the N600XJ range. (300's- B model Saabs, 400's B+ Saabs, 500's Avro's, 600's CRJ's)
- All CRJ's will come equipped with Flaps 8
- A model Saabs (3) & B models (11 N3xxPX seriex) leases expire over the next 3-5 years
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:32 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 44):
A model Saabs (3) & B models (11 N3xxPX seriex) leases expire over the next 3-5 years

Okay, now we know why this was in the original press release that I linked:

"Mesaba will incur the costs necessary to bring the new CRJ fleet into service and will continue to operate the existing Avro RJ85 and Saab 340 aircraft until the aircraft are removed from service at their respective lease termination dates. Mesaba will also have rights to fly additional or replacement aircraft if ordered by Northwest Airlines."

If ordered, wouldn't any further CRJ's (above the 35) be replacement aircraft? Saabs wouldn't be replaced with mainline aircraft, right?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:28 am

I think that line can be interpreted in many ways.
That could mean additional CRJ's, replacement for the Avro fleet, replacement for the Saab fleet, etc. Basically it means that XJ is going have at least a 100 plane fleet for the next 10 years. Of course, a lot can change in 10 years, just think back to 1995.....
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 44):
- All CRJ's will come equipped with Flaps 8

Whats so special about flaps 8?
 
NLINK
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:16 am

Flaps 8 allows much better performance out of hot and high airports. Basically allows them to carry full loads out of either shorter runways or out west and the hot and high airports.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW

Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:46 am

so it has the effect of a leading edge slat?

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