georgiabill
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What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:11 am

With increasing numbers of Boeing and Airbus aircraft in Russia. What is the future of commercial airliner developement in Russia?
 
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scbriml
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:27 am

Sadly, I don't think it's very bright.

Being the old git that I am, I love nothing more than the throbbing tones of an Il-18, the throaty roar of a Tu-134 or Tu-154, or the crackling growl of an Il-62. Then of course, there's the shattering scream of an Il-76.

I think it's very sad that Aeroflot is replacing it's Tu-134s and Tu-154s with Airbus A32xs.  Sad With other Russian airlines like Transaero operating 737s and 767s and VIM now operating 757s, it won't be long before the Tupolevs, Ilyushins and Antonovs are only operated by 3rd tier airlines  crying 

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levg79
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:37 am

Well, as it is right now, TU-154 is the most popular aircraft in Russia. The IL-62 is simply outdated. I think it's the only aircraft currently in use that requires a 5-person crew.

The new Tupolev aircraft currently in production might have a future in Russia. I, however, doubt they'll make an international debut the way Airbus made years ago. In my opinion, the only way for Russian aircraft to be popular is for a western company to order some. I kind of doubt that'll happen anytime soon.
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Planesmart
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:48 am

Russian industry has a possible future as manufacturing / risk sharing partners with Boeing and Airbus, perhaps building 737/A32 replacements, although there are a lot of countries fighting for this opportunity.

Russian expertise is certainly in demand overseas.

Past attempts to sell Russian airliners with Western engines at bargain basement prices were not successful.

It's the old ownership cost argument. Operating costs unknown, residual value very low, insurance premiums high and lender/leasor risk margin premiums very high = not an economic proposition.
 
optionscle
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:15 am

The RRJ looked very promising. What's its status?

-Andrew
 
georgiabill
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:32 am

As far as I know Tupolev was to sell the 204 to Iran and Libya. The IL96-300 sold two aircraft to Cubana and Aeroflot has a small fleet. I also believe Domodedovo Airlines has IL 96-300's. It will be a shame not to see Russian designs flying.
 
hjulicher
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:19 pm

what are the main differences between Russian and western aircraft? Is it technology, or efficiency, or something else. Why are they not used. I have heard the Russian engineering methods are sort of revered around the world, and that Russian jets, although not fuel efficient, are very ingenous and mechanically advanced? I think that Russian aircraft manufacturers need to build an aircraft that has similar attributes to that of Boeing and Airbus, but because of lower production cost sell them for less. It seems that a L.C. carrier could see this as a good proposition.
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SkyexRamper
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:45 pm

Quoting Georgiabill (Thread starter):
What is the future of commercial airliner developement in Russia?

Was there ever one....???
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DarthRandall
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:52 pm

Personally, I would love to see the Il-96M get some attention, but in a world with the A350 and the 787 on the market, I don't imagine a Russian 350 seater will even get a glance. Hopefully Tupolev and Ilyushin will either find a niche to fill like the 100 seat market that Airbus and Boeing seem to be ignoring or do like PlaneSmart said and establish a working relationship with one or both of the big two.
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N77014
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:43 pm

QUOTE:what are the main differences between Russian and western aircraft? Is it technology, or efficiency, or something else. Why are they not used. I have heard the Russian engineering methods are sort of revered around the world, and that Russian jets, although not fuel efficient, are very ingenous and mechanically advanced? I think that Russian aircraft manufacturers need to build an aircraft that has similar attributes to that of Boeing and Airbus, but because of lower production cost sell them for less. It seems that a L.C. carrier could see this as a good proposition.



1-Product support. Airlines want a product that can be supplied with critical parts worldwide on short notice. Russian manufacturers don't do this as well as western manufacturers.

2-Technology. Russian manufacturers are behind the curve, particularly in engine technology, electronics, use of composites, and manufacturing techniques.

3-Client input. Boeing put much toward getting potential airline customers involved in B777 design process. Unheard of in Russia.
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intothinair
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:31 pm

I miss those Russian jets.
The TU154 is simply amazing when you're in it, it takes off like a rocket.
Also from the outside they look very good, and the sound that they make, simply stunning. It's a joy to be in one of them.
Let's hope they will fly for years to come.

Cheers, Konstantin G

[Edited 2005-04-24 11:34:25]
 
nomadic
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:45 am

It is a shame that Russian airliners never caught on in the West. We all know the reasons.

Russian aircraft have such personality inside and out.

I have flown quite a few times between St. Petersburg and Moscow on Pulkovo Aviation's IL-86s. The built in air-stairs are great. I love steppig out of the shuttle bus next to those Kuznetzov engines. The the lower deck storage areas for carry-on items are a terrific idea. And on what other jet airliners would you expect to find stair hand-rails made of wood?!

Nomadic
 
Beaucaire
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:57 am

TU 204 should be a great plane for cargo and charter airlines.
Truth is that system-support issues might be the main stepping stone preventing sales into the western world.Russian aviation-engineering has not much to learn from europeans or americans exept engine-technology and eventually avionics.Russian planes are sturdy and rubust but lack acceptance from european operators due to unproven fleet-experience and unjustified bad press.I have used many different types of russian bult aircraft and never felt unsafe.
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JohnA
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:02 am

Maybe the future's with Boeing:

Check out this reprint from Novosti:

http://www.aviatsiya.ru/forums/viewtopic.php?t=422

[Edited 2005-04-24 21:05:25]
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.
 
JohnA
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:32 am

See also this 2003 edition of Boeing's 'Frontiers' online magazine:

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2003/october/i_atw.html
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.
 
levg79
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:39 pm

Imagine seeing this at your home airport:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00002047

I kind of doubt that AC passangers would like to see "Tupolev 154" printed in their tickets. I, however, might be wrong so don't judge so harshly.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
jafa39
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:18 pm

ECO-Airlines of Australia are buying Yak 42D's.
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AirWillie6475
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:46 pm

I changed planes in zurich once and our plane had cargo problems so we were just sitting in the plane at the gate for about 20 minutes. The plane next to our plane was an Albanian Airlines plane I believe it was a Tupolev and it was a pretty good size plane. That was the first time that I've seen a russian jet. Looked very old and tired and the tail section was very dirty with exhaust. Nothing against russian planes but I just said to myself thank god I am not in that thing. I have actually heard that they have a good ride and are solid.
 
jafa39
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:28 pm

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 15):
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00002047

Crazy site mate, love it!
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cornish
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:41 pm

Quoting Intothinair (Reply 10):
The TU154 is simply amazing when you're in it, it takes off like a rocket.
Also from the outside they look very good, and the sound that they make, simply stunning. It's a joy to be in one of them.

Absolutely agree. I used to fly on Malev 154s between LHR and BUD in the mid 90s and the performance of those aircraft on takeoff never failed to impress. Everyone talks about the 757 in that respect, but the 154 is just as impressive.
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AR1300
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RE: What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.

Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:45 pm

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 2):
the only way for Russian aircraft to be popular is for a western company to order some.

There is already one, but it didn't help a lot...

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