a380900
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Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:29 pm

I have come across a thread about A380 windows where Corey07850 points out that:

"A346 has 88 windows total (regardless if they are for the lavs or anything), while the A380 has 58 on the bottom and 52 on top..."

The A346 is slightly longer but still... The difference (30 windows = 50% more windows on the fuselage of the A340!) is big enough to make the interior less comfortable for passengers. I have also watched the TLC documentary and the A380 interior does look more claustrophobic than regular airliners. Why would Airbus decide to have fewer windows than usual in "the flagship of the 21st century" (as they put it)?
 
AA737-823
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:28 pm

And this after Boeing announces that the 787 will have the largest windows to ever be installed in a commercial jetliner.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:36 pm

Was this a way for Airbus to cut weight of the A380?
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
a380900
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:37 pm

True but the larger windows will only be larger in height. So it does not really help in terms of number on windows on the length of the aircraft.
 
leelaw
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:52 pm

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
"the flagship of the 21st century"

"A Cattle Car by any other name is still a Cattle Car."
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
sean377
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:56 pm

These are what you call windows:-


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a380900
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:02 pm

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 5):
These are what you call windows:-

Indeed!
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:29 pm

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 5):
These are what you call windows:-

At 35,000 feet I call them cabin depressurization portals. Big grin
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
sean377
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:41 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 7):
At 35,000 feet I call them cabin depressurization portals. Big grin

Wouldn't it be great if you could wind them down! Under 10,000ft of course!
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
 
OD720
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:25 pm

It's not like they are planning to grow trees in there!
 
ComeAndGo
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:28 pm

Like swiss cheese. If you put to many holes in them you have no more cheese.
 
zvezda
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:48 pm

The additional structural weight needed for each window increases as fuselage diameter increases. It is rumored that Airbus reduced the WhaleJet's window count in order to meet performance guarantees. Can anyone confirm?
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:13 pm

Just another reason to never fly the A380.

I dont want to be stuck in the middle of a plane that large and not be able to see out.
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers

Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:43 pm

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):

"A346 has 88 windows total (regardless if they are for the lavs or anything), while the A380 has 58 on the bottom and 52 on top..."

The A346 is slightly longer but still... The difference (30 windows = 50% more windows on the fuselage of the A340!) is big enough to make the interior less comfortable for passengers. I have also watched the TLC documentary and the A380 interior does look more claustrophobic than regular airliners. Why would Airbus decide to have fewer windows than usual in "the flagship of the 21st century" (as they put it)?

Sorry but your math is off. The 346 has a longer fuselage and more pax on it's deck than on the "equivalent" upper deck of the 388.

A346 "typical three class" -372 pax with 88 windows or 4.23 pax/window.
A388 "typical three class" - 555 pax with 110 windows or 5.05 pax/window

But wait! the 388 has 2 more seats abreast on the main deck so the number of pax per window will naturally be higher. I can't be bothered to do the math but I think you'll find that there are about as many windows per row as on the 346. Ergo, no difference.

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 12):
Just another reason to never fly the A380.

I dont want to be stuck in the middle of a plane that large and not be able to see out.

The main deck will have the same number of seats abreast as the 747, so no difference there, but I agree sitting in the middle of a wide deck with 10 abreast is rather icky...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
N754PR
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:51 pm

Flyingbronco,

Yawn, yawn and yawn again.... the I dont like the A380 for this that and the other reason is very boring.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
tackleberry970
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:53 pm

With the extent of the upper structure, along with the load forces a full compliment of passengers will bring to that structure, you must be able to support and distribute the load across the structure down into the "foundation" of the airframe.

It is likely that to accomplish this, the engineers had to increase the size of the structural ribs, which are in the spaces between the windows, thus reducing the number of windows that could be placed in the fixed length of the airframe.

Seeing as the 346 isn't a double deck aircraft, that would enable the similar structural design as any other airframe, thus allowing for more windows to be placed in the longer length due to the conventional sizing of the structural ribs.

tac.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:56 pm

I still contend that there are about as many windows per row as on the 346. Now if someone wants to count the rows in the sample seatmaps (on http://www.airliners.net/info and http://www.airbus.com/product/a380_cabin_layouts.asp) and get back to us  Wink

Windows per row is the important metric, not windows per seat. Since the number of pax abreast is different, you have to compare that way.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
a380900
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:59 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
Sorry but your math is off. The 346 has a longer fuselage and more pax on it's deck than on the "equivalent" upper deck of the 388.

A346 "typical three class" -372 pax with 88 windows or 4.23 pax/window.
A388 "typical three class" - 555 pax with 110 windows or 5.05 pax/window

No, my math is not off. I assume that the overall feeling you get in a cabin relative to windows depends on their size and how many there are for a given length. It does not depend on how many passengers there are.

I know that if you are in a window seat on a boeing 747, you can see through 2 or three windows depending on your luck. It looks like on the A380, it's going to be 1 or 2 with a lot of "wall" in the middle.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:30 am

Quoting A380900 (Reply 17):
No, my math is not off. I assume that the overall feeling you get in a cabin relative to windows depends on their size and how many there are for a given length. It does not depend on how many passengers there are.

I still think you're off on the math. Of course the relation is windows to length, but I haven't seen a figure on that in this thread, for any plane. The 388 is shorter than the 346, and the usable space per deck is even shorter given the staircases.

Each deck on the 388 has fewer rows than the deck on the 346, so it needs fewer windows. BTW how many windows and pax are there on the main deck of a 744? That would be a more accurate comparison to the main deck of a 388 since they have the same number of seats abreast.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
c680
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:44 am

The more I read about the A380 the more I think Airbus is right: This plane is perfect for China.

It really was made to move a large number of people. Reduce the seat pitch to domestic Chinese standards, throw in an extra row of seats and crank up the number of available seats for sale.

All this talk about showers and shops is a bunch of garbage. Most operators will fill this puppy with seats, and they dont care how many windows the thing has.

Exception to the rule may be Virgin - but I base that on what Virgin has already done (put the Bar in Upper Class) - I hope Branson puts in a real size Bar and ADA size Lavs. Virgin could hand out "Mile High Club" cards on landing. Now *that's* worthy of "Upper" Class!!!  Big grin
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Crosswind
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:49 am

The window spacing on the A380 looks the same as for any other Airbus. Airbus windows are already slightly larger with slightly greater spacing between them than on most Boeing models.

http://www.silverstatenews.com/A380_Debut_01182005/mini-cabin2.jpg

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
cpsarras
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:06 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
And this after Boeing announces that the 787 will have the largest windows to ever be installed in a commercial jetliner.

I miss the Caravelle windows ... To me they were the most awesome windows put on a jetliner  Smile

Christos
- To Fly Is To Be Free -
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:12 am

One thing I did notice is that similar to Most Airbus products, you have very little head room on the A380, at least on the upper deck....gonna get claustrophobic..l
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Olympus69
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:17 am

This topic is ridiculous. A Boeing 707-420 had about 75 windows on one side of the fuselage. The DC-8 series 50, approximately the same length as the 707, had about 25 windows. I don't remember anyone ever saying that the DC-8 was more claustrophobic than the B707.
 
Morvious
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:38 am

Quoting A380900 (Reply 17):
No, my math is not off. I assume that the overall feeling you get in a cabin relative to windows depends on their size and how many there are for a given length. It does not depend on how many passengers there are.

The difference to the cabin length between a A346 and A380 is 10 meters. Not a very good way to compare things!

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 16):
I still contend that there are about as many windows per row as on the 346. Now if someone wants to count the rows in the sample seatmaps (on http://www.airliners.net/info and http://www.airbus.com/product/a380_cabin_layouts.asp) and get back to us

Windows per row is the important metric, not windows per seat. Since the number of pax abreast is different, you have to compare that way.

This is in my oppinion the correct way to calculate! But then you have to calculate it in classes, not all in one. So count every window in 1st class, and count the rows, then in buisness etc.

In your case, windows per row, this would mean:

A346, 50 rows in a 3 clas cabin layout, 380 passengers.
88 windows / 50 rows = 1,76 window/row

A388, 39 rows downstairs, 28 upstairs in a 3 class cabin layout, 555 passengers.
58 windows / 39 rows = 1.48 window/row downstairs
52 windows / 28 rows = 1.86 window/row upstairs.
110 windows / 67 rows = 1.64 window/row avarage.

Still way above 1 window / row both airplanes and nothing to worry about.

But the A380 has more 1st class and buisness class seats, that take more windows/row.

Why Am I replying anyway Big grin..
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
leelaw
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:39 am

Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 23):
The DC-8 series 50, approximately the same length as the 707, had about 25 windows.

Weren't the DC-8's windows much larger than the 707's?


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[Edited 2005-04-24 18:47:59]
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CTHEWORLD
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:42 am

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 20):
The window spacing on the A380 looks the same as for any other Airbus. Airbus windows are already slightly larger with slightly greater spacing between them than on most Boeing models.

Wrong...Boeing narrow body a/c have windows that are 20% larger than Airbus narrow body and the 777 currently has the largest passenger windows in production.
 
trent900
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:48 am

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 12):
Just another reason to never fly the A380.

I dont want to be stuck in the middle of a plane that large and not be able to see out.

So you won't/don't fly in 747's either? If your sitting in the middle of any 2 isle aircraft, how easy is it to look out a window anyways?  crowded 

D.
 
northseatiger
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:50 am

At the end of the day it's windows, Technically the aircraft is for going from to A to B and on this sort 90% of the journey will probably be over sea so there is nothing to see anyway.
T's And P's look good....Rotate
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:50 am

I think it is fine. Especially for those on the upper deck, that way they don't realize how freaking high off the ground they are while taxi and realize they are on a massive beast.
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
galapagapop
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 23):
This topic is ridiculous. A Boeing 707-420 had about 75 windows on one side of the fuselage. The DC-8 series 50, approximately the same length as the 707, had about 25 windows. I don't remember anyone ever saying that the DC-8 was more claustrophobic than the B707.

But what eventually happened to McDonnel Douglas? I don't see anything new out of LGB except the occastional B717.


That upper deck simply looks dreadful. I still will never fly this thing because who in their right mind will want to check-in, board, and await bags with 555 people. 200 is hard enough as it is........
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:10 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 22):
One thing I did notice is that similar to Most Airbus products, you have very little head room on the A380, at least on the upper deck....gonna get claustrophobic..l

Actually about as much space as on the 346. Remember that you will be sitting down  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
CrossChecked
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:16 am

I agree. The Airbus A380 program should be scrapped. Ney, it should never have been launched. Any airliner with fewer windows than passengers is a no-go in my book.

I don't care that it's a technological marvel with the potential to further revolutionise the world of air travel. I don't care that it's size will likely increase the amount of lower-cost seats available on the world's major air routes, thus making air travel cheaper for millions of passengers (and those who could never afford it in the past). I don't care that the jobs of thousands of people rely on the success of this fantastic machine.

IT DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH WINDOWS. DITCH IT.
Cabin crew, doors to manual and cross check.
 
Adria
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:17 am

Quoting C680 (Reply 19):
It really was made to move a large number of people. Reduce the seat pitch to domestic Chinese standards, throw in an extra row of seats and crank up the number of available seats for sale.

Check the seating plans of Emirates, Singapore or Virgin before you make such an statement

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 22):
One thing I did notice is that similar to Most Airbus products, you have very little head room on the A380, at least on the upper deck....gonna get claustrophobic..l

You'll have more head room than on the 744 upper deck or DC9/MD80/90 or B737 so don't worry
 
Danny
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:24 am

Quoting A380900 (Reply 17):
No, my math is not off. I assume that the overall feeling you get in a cabin relative to windows depends on their size and how many there are for a given length. It does not depend on how many passengers there are.

Your math is off and your theory funny. Number of windows per pax is important? Then single engine props beat everything.

[Edited 2005-04-24 19:24:48]
 
Udo
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:29 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 4):
A Cattle Car by any other name is still a Cattle Car

Hmmmm, "Dreamliner" comes to mind...  idea 

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
It is rumored that Airbus reduced the WhaleJet's window count in order to meet performance guarantees. Can anyone confirm?

And another rumour has been born...if I invented the theory that Airbus have replaced pilot seats with inflatable pillows in order "to save weight and meet performance guarantees" you would find at least twenty guys on this board who take it for true and say "it is rumoured that xxx" next week...  covereyes 

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 12):
I dont want to be stuck in the middle of a plane that large and not be able to see out.

Is it any better to be stuck in the middle of 2-5-2?  scratchchin 

Quoting C680 (Reply 19):
Reduce the seat pitch to domestic Chinese standards, throw in an extra row of seats and crank up the number of available seats for sale.

Chinese airlines do not put more seats into their planes than Ryanair, easyjet or Lufthansa. So what's your point?

Quoting C680 (Reply 19):

All this talk about showers and shops is a bunch of garbage.

Of course it is garbage, but too many people apparently believed in that garbage which some incompetent journalists invented...  tired 


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
leelaw
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:52 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 35):
incompetent journalists

Takes one to know one.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Boeing73G
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 20):

Simply look at the picture. It's just slightly larger windows spaced out.

Oh, and is Airbus really taking an idea from Boeing? Look at the overhead bins  Silly
 
Gary2880
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:07 am

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 12):
Just another reason to never fly the A380.

does that come before or after 'its not american' on your list?
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
AC787
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:15 am

Quoting Boeing73G (Reply 37):
Oh, and is Airbus really taking an idea from Boeing? Look at the overhead bins

What do you mean?

AC787
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:24 am

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 12):
Just another reason to never fly the A380.

So the size of the windows on an airplane is taken into consideration when choosing what plane to fly on? That's a first to me. I mean, if the windows were 4" x 2", maybe your comment would make sense. But since that is not the case, I don't see your point. Let's not let your anti-Airbus feelings cloud your judgement. Fewer windows or not, the A380 is something we should all be celebrating because it is a gigantic (literally) innovation in aviation history. And as aviation lovers that we are, the company making the product shouldn't matter, but instead the product itself and if you ask me, the A380 is one amazing product.
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
Udo
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 36):
Takes one to know one.

No, just some common sense.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
satx
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 29):
I think it is fine. Especially for those on the upper deck, that way they don't realize how freaking high off the ground they are while taxi and realize they are on a massive beast.

So what you're essentially saying is that 'ignorance is bliss?' Well, you'd be the one to know.

Quoting Danny (Reply 34):
Your math is off and your theory funny. Number of windows per pax is important? Then single engine props beat everything.

LOL!  Big grin Short and to-the-point; I love it!
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:17 am

This thread proves once again. Sad that some guys really need to get a life...
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:47 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 42):
So what you're essentially saying is that 'ignorance is bliss?' Well, you'd be the one to know.

While I see how my comment could be misinterpreted, I don't understand the personal attack. That was a joke by the way. I think it would be obvious to anyone without looking out the window that they are on a gigantic plane.
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
ORDagent
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 40):
Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 12):
Just another reason to never fly the A380.

Is everybody a sexually frustrated 13 year old on this thread? When push comes to shove the majority of us will fly on the cheapest seat available. We will try for our fav. a.c. But lets face it money talks.
 
a380900
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:56 am

Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 23):
This topic is ridiculous.

Well, don't take part in it then. What if it interests people with a lesser intellect? Be tolerant!

[Edited 2005-04-25 04:59:29]
 
satx
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers

Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:58 am

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 44):
While I see how my comment could be misinterpreted, I don't understand the personal attack. That was a joke by the way.

I didn't see that it was a joke, sorry. Consider the attack disbanded.  white 
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
Olympus69
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:56 pm

Quoting A380900 (Reply 46):
Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 23):
This topic is ridiculous.

Well, don't take part in it then. What if it interests people with a lesser intellect? Be tolerant!

I happen to enjoy ridiculous topics once in a while  cheerful 

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 25):
Weren't the DC-8's windows much larger than the 707's?

Yes they were, but spaced two frames apart. This meant that when airlines reduced seat spacing to less than 40 inches some rows didn't have a window. Sounds like I'm refuting my own argument about not being claustrophobic.  Smile
 
Mark_D.
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RE: Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:12 pm

Leelaw Takes one to know one.

On your own part, maybe especially so  fluffy 

I hope the Boeing autoclave and tape-machine folks are doing okay with the 2nd 787 fuse section. Been nearly 3 months now and they're supposed to have 7 mini-sections (literally) cooked up by year's end, according to the PR-folks' announced timeline.


As for the A380 windows it seems the spacing --and particularly sizing-- will be more than okay. Though the upper-deck fuselage walls slanting in as shown in that pic in Crosswind's Reply #20 does make it look somewhat claustrophobic, at least for economy-class seating.

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