WesternDC1010
Topic Author
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Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:29 pm

I've noticed over the years that certain Mexicana's Boeing 727-264's had slightly elevated portions of their top rear fuselages. This raised area began above the rear over-wing emergency exit and ended just before the number 2 engine inlet and where the registration ended on these aircraft when painted in the 'Goden-Aztec' livery of he 1970's and 80's.


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Photo © Eduardo Perusquia - Aviation Photography of Mexico
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Photo © AirNikon




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Photo © Mick Bajcar
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Photo © Bob Holland




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Photo © Howard Chaloner



Was this raised area used for any certain aerials/antennas? Why didn't we see this with other Boeing 727-200's?

- Ron
Western DC-10-10
Western Airlines - The Only Way To Fly
 
pecevanne
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:05 pm

If I have enough memory this area was designed to hold the NDB antennas
(Already I do not have any descriptions manuals for the 727)
regards
 
dan2002
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:31 pm

I think it had to do with the re-routing of some of the systems for the JATO bottles that some of them had.


-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
IDAWA
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:35 pm

Quoting Dan2002 (Reply 2):
the JATO bottles that some of them had.

Are you talking about the boosters to be used in case of an engine failure at full load at MEX (hot & high) ?

I-DAWA
Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
 
dan2002
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:09 am

Quoting IDAWA (Reply 3):
Are you talking about the boosters to be used in case of an engine failure at full load at MEX (hot & high) ?

Yea, the rockets. Read the comment for this pic:
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Photo © Marlo Plate - Iberian Spotters



-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:09 am

Quoting Dan2002 (Reply 2):
think it had to do with the re-routing of some of the systems for the JATO bottles that some of them had.

Yep, that´s part of the answer, let me ask maintenance if they have something about it, but actually was for the JATO equipped planes
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:14 am

Are there any pictoral examples of the jet-assisted take off option on these planes?

The old shots of the Mexicana planes don't really show anything other than a normal 727 with the "moved" parts on top (the raised part).. is there any other things we should be looking at?

Thanks!

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
dan2002
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:36 am

http://www.airdisaster.com/user-uploads/727Jatotakeoff.jpg



-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
citationjet
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:57 am

Thanks for the photo Dan. I learned something new about the 727.... Wink
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
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United_fan
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:02 am

Wow! Like a 727 wasn't loud enough !  Smile  Smile
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WesternDC1010
Topic Author
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:40 am

Thanks for the clarification! That elevated spine on these aircraft have puzzled me for years. And the photo of the Mexicana 727-264 using this JATO feature is amazing!

- Ron
Western DC-10-10
Western Airlines - The Only Way To Fly
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:09 pm

Well one learns something new every day.

Twenty-two years of flying for a living and i had never heard of this.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
concentriq
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:27 pm

Wow. this is indeed very interesting!!! Thanks for bringing this up and explaining it. So. if i understand this correctly, B727's equipped with JATO units would have an extra "nozzles" like in the image below?

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Photo © Dariusz Jezewski


i searched DB, and didnt find any photos with good details of this. does anyone have anything that will show more detail? (I hope Dan didnt take any offence at that  Smile. Great shot, but i would love to see some more detail)
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RyanAFAMSP
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:58 pm

Excellent work everyone! Amidst the union busters, the NW DC-9 bashers, and the dirty Air France plane crowd, there are some people who really know their stuff.

So it is hard to tell from the photo - but where does the JATO system fire from? Are they solid rockets, or is it a liquid fueled rocket engine? How often would Mexicana use this system? It sounds SO expensive, loud, and inefficient! What a novelty!

If anyone else has more details, let us know.

Ryan
 
ASAFA
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:51 pm

Quoting RyanAFAMSP (Reply 13):
Excellent work everyone! Amidst the union busters, the NW DC-9 bashers, and the dirty Air France plane crowd, there are some people who really know their stuff.

My thoughts exactly.

Amazing that type of system was installed on commercial aircraft. Like IDAWA said they were probably for emergency use only and would be used in the event of engine failure that would result in a crash. I am sure they didn't just turn them on for kicks (although that would be quite the takeoff experience!).

Cheers
ASAFA
 
hirisk
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:56 pm

THATS why i love this site!i would have never known that little nugget of info!instead of take-off,we get blast-off bigthumbsup  biggrin  eyepopping 
happy contrails
 
aeroweanie
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:02 am

The Swearingen (Fairchild) Metro was designed with a JATO bottle in the tail for engine failure situations. I think few ever had it installed in service - I noticed that it was placarded as not installed in the one Metro cockpit I've been in. I have also noticed that most pictures of the Metros in the a.net database show a nav light back where the JATO bottle used to be installed.
 
AM744
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:32 am

I've heard of them. According to some seasoned aviation relatives of mine, MX used this JATO system often at some point in time, mostly when they received the first 200s. In my years of spotting at MEX I never saw on single Jet Assisted Take Off. I wonder if it had to do with some engine upgrade or something? I'm eager to know.
 
av757
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:55 am

No the JATO's are not used for normal take-off with 3 operating engines, they were only used in an emergency with the maximum allowed take-off gross weight only after the loss of an engine during take-off at V1 between the first segment and second segment climb so as to have the extra power during gear retraction after liftoff to comply second segment obstacle climb limitations, so as to not penalize payload on high altitude, high temperature airports as MEX.

Regards:
AV757
 
stirling
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:08 am

Proves the Old Saying true:

You learn something new everyday, amazing stuff.

It's topics like this that bring me to A.Net at least once a day...
Delete this User
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:09 am

For those interested, here a few other discussions related to topic!
Question About The Operations Of 727 With Rockets (by 727datacenter Jul 6 2001 in Civil Aviation) 727 With Afterburners! (by N9801F May 24 2004 in Civil Aviation) 727's At La Paz.... (by JETPILOT May 12 2001 in Tech Ops) Booster Rockets On Civil Airliners (by D-AQUI Oct 17 2001 in Tech Ops) RE: Rocket Assisted Take-offs On Civil Aircraft (by Aloges Aug 28 2003 in Tech Ops) RE: DC9 With Jato Bottles? (by Air1727 Feb 9 2004 in Tech Ops)

Ricardo APM
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SFOMEX
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting Dan2002 (Reply 7):

Amazing photo indeed. May I ask you where you found it?
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
HR001
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RE: Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage

Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:36 am

Found another one
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Photo © Greg Davis

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