rootsair
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:12 am

This is a record ! The thread on AC getting 777 and 787 has been on for less than 24 hours that it already has 309 replies. In other words, for slower modems, its just hell to load up to the last replies and thus having people not be able to reply if they'd like to. I would like to open a second AC thread so as to allow the thread to be read equally well by all

Regards

BM
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redflyer
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:24 am

Personally, from reading the last several posts I think the topic is spent. But I'd love to see it continue. It's definitely had some of the most intelligent (if sometimes heated) discussions I've seen since I've joined this forum.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
Rj111
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:25 am

Well why we're here (and i'm still gutted), how long do they plan to keep the A343's and A333's?
 
NYC777
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:27 am

I heard on the conference call that the A340s and A330s will be the first to be retired so I think that by 2010 there won't be any Airbus widebodies in the AC fleet.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
karan69
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:32 am

Would there be plans to operate YYZ-BOM once their new aircrafts arrive
 
NYC777
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:36 am

Yes, they do plan to operate yyz-bom with the 772LR.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Glom
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:39 am

So what the 772LR order book like? I remember that when the 772LR, the order book was a bigger joke than the A350's.
 
FriendlySkies
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:41 am

There's a HUGE difference between the 772LR and the A350.

The 777LR is a derivative of the 777 family, and has the 772ER and 773ER to support it.

The A350 is its own family...if it doesn't sell, Airbus is in some serious trouble.
 
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lightsaber
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:52 am

Engines!

Have they been selected? GE? RR? (I didn't see in the Press release nor prior thread.)

217 of the 787's are on firm order. Wow! Boeing has a new product and some with these orders!

And may I ask the question that I didn't see the answer in part 1: Who else is left in the a350/787 market who will order in the next 5 years? My guesses: NW, AA, UA, DL, LH, AF?... I think the battle still has legs.

Congrats AC.
Lightsaber
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Mark_D.
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:53 am

FriendlySkies-- The A350 is its own family...if it doesn't sell, Airbus is in some serious trouble.

The 3fitty or whatever it may morph into will sell, it hath been decreed just for domestic economy/political reasons alone among EU member states, and maybe a number of key foreign trading partners worldwide as well. Kind of just like with the major 787 launch customers themselves Smile

Having said that though, they still gotta come up with a (presumably ever-more-composite-hulled-than-before) product to actually put out there. No matter what may or may not happen technically or saleswise with the 787 from the 'other guys'.
 
ac7e7
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:54 am

Engines to be chosen in the next 90 days.
 
AirbusCanada
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 7):
The A350 is its own family...if it doesn't sell, Airbus is in some serious trouble.

350 is not a new disign and has lot in common with boh 330 and 340 family.
 
DfwRevolution
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 8):
Have they been selected? GE? RR? (I didn't see in the Press release nor prior thread.)

Ge90-110/115 is an obvious for the 777 family.

AC doesn't have any "loyalty" I'm aware of, and the Ge90 might help the GeNX case

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 8):
And may I ask the question that I didn't see the answer in part 1: Who else is left in the a350/787 market who will order in the next 5 years? My guesses: NW, AA, UA, DL, LH, AF?... I think the battle still has legs.

NW is rumored to be leaning heavily toward Boeing

AA, UA, DL are not in any stage of seeking to aquire new 200-300 seaters. AA would probably be the first to act, and I believe they just said they won't analyize either aircraft until 2007

LH and AF are also in no hurry to replace their A330s, but if when such an order is tendered, I don't forsee either OEM having an automatic "in"

In terms of major customers that are ordering in the near term, QR has a tender for 69 787/A350, China will likely buy A350, and ILFC orders are all likely in the future.
 
N60659
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 8):
And may I ask the question that I didn't see the answer in part 1: Who else is left in the a350/787 market who will order in the next 5 years?

Lightsaber, there is a lot of speculation about this going on here. Hope this helps.
-N60659
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Glom
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AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 7):

So what is the order book like?

I'm not bashing the 772LR. The 777 is my favourite, but I remember that it wasn't selling that well at first and this was often used as a retort to the A350's poor order book.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
This is a record ! The thread on AC getting 777 and 787 has been on for less than 24 hours that it already has 309 replies. In other words, for slower modems, its just hell to load up to the last replies and thus having people not be able to reply if they'd like to. I would like to open a second AC thread so as to allow the thread to be read equally well by all

Wait until Northwest finally announces the official DC-9 replacement, you will see an even longer thread.
 
redflyer
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (part2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:11 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 12):
AA, UA, DL are not in any stage of seeking to aquire new 200-300 seaters. AA would probably be the first to act, and I believe they just said they won't analyize either aircraft until 2007

Interesting dynamics here but with the 787's production slots tied up through 2010 and stretching out further with each new order, wouldn't it be interesting if these three U.S. carriers actually end up ordering the 350 since they'll be able to get their hands on a copy before they could the 787? Imagine the boon that would be for Airbus to have three marquee clients like that on their 350 order book.
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N1120A
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:12 am

Quoting from the old thread
>Both the A345 and 772LR surpass the 787 in range and that title actually belongs to the former.<

Actually, the title belongs to the 772LR, not the A345 (even in higher gross weight form).

Quoting Glom (Reply 14):
I'm not bashing the 772LR. The 777 is my favourite, but I remember that it wasn't selling that well at first and this was often used as a retort to the A350's poor order book.

There is a major difference between what is meant to be a niche aircraft (the 772LR) that is more than covered by much more popular siblings (772ER and 773ER) and an aircraft that is meant to compete for a market of something like 2000 aircraft (A350 v. 787). The A350's order book is of serious concern to Airbus, because it represents competition for the bulk of widebody orders over the next 20 years.
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commavia
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:17 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 16):
Interesting dynamics here but with the 787's production slots tied up through 2010 and stretching out further with each new order, wouldn't it be interesting if these three U.S. carriers actually end up ordering the 350 since they'll be able to get their hands on a copy before they could the 787?

AA will never order the A350. AA's primary objective post-9/11 is simplification, moving from 14 aircraft fleets in 2001 down to six today. AA is not going to take on a non-standard Airbus fleet and have to incur the increased maintenance, training and staffing costs. It just won't happen.

As for DL and UA, if either was going to order the A350, it would probably be UA. But, honestly, I doubt either one will ever order the A350. DL and UA are both exceedingly loyal to Boeing long-haul widebodies and the A350 would be completely non-standard with anything in the DL/UA fleet.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 12):
AA would probably be the first to act, and I believe they just said they won't analyize either aircraft until 2007.

I agree that AA will probably be the next US carrier to order the 787, but I am not sure it is going to take until 2007. AA would love to offload their non-standard, maintenance-intensive A300 fleet. But, yes, I agree that regardless of when they order them, the 787 probably won't fly in bare silver metal until 2012-2013, at the earliest.
 
commavia
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:19 am

Just heard on the conference call: AC won't be taking delivery of their remaining A340-600 orders. Another blow to Airbus.
 
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PA110
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:22 am

Has anyone checked Solnabo to see if he's still breathing?
This kind of news could give the poor guy a stroke!  eyepopping 
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redflyer
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:22 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 18):
DL and UA are both exceedingly loyal to Boeing long-haul widebodies and the A350 would be completely non-standard with anything in the DL/UA fleet.

Those same words were spoken with the same confidence and bravado about UA and their narrow bodies...just before they ordered 50 320's from Airbus in 1995.

With regards to the commonality issue, I think it has been over-played. Simply look at the number of carriers willing to mix the 787 with their existing fleets. The commonality argument plays well as a differentiator (think value-add), not as the primary selling point.

In any event, my original comment was made not as a definitive statement but, rather, as a what-if.

Best regards
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Glom
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:24 am

So is the 772LR sales going well considering it's niche status?
 
N1120A
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 18):
the 787 probably won't fly in bare silver metal until 2012-2013, at the earliest.

Actually, it will never fly in bare silver metal. The fusealge will be composite, and likely black.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
commavia
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:27 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 21):
Those same words were spoken with the same confidence and bravado about UA and their narrow bodies...just before they ordered 50 320's from Airbus in 1995.

Too true, however, I just can't see an A330/A340/A350 in United colors (let alone Delta colors). I simply don't see it happening.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 21):
With regards to the commonality issue, I think it has been over-played.

I don't think so. AA has done exceptionally well by simplifying their fleet and their operations. I know, I know, they are still losing money. But at least they are not in bankruptcy and their operations are actually generating positive cash flow. That is due in large part to millions in annual savings from fleet and fleet-related simplification.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:27 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 16):
Interesting dynamics here but with the 787's production slots tied up through 2010 and stretching out further with each new order, wouldn't it be interesting if these three U.S. carriers actually end up ordering the 350 since they'll be able to get their hands on a copy before they could the 787?

First, at the absolute peak of 777-200ER orders/deliveries, the backlog for an order was never more than 2.5 years. The 787 will have more production capacity than the 777, and it will be some time before these airlines will be in any position to order.

Second, these airlines will be looking for a 763ER replacement, of which the A358 is no such airplane.

The 787 is a 767 replacement, what the A350 is? Hard to say: it's neither a 777 replacement or a 767 replacement or a 787 competitor.
 
ComeAndGo
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:30 am

hold your horses !!

this order doesn't mean anything. many airlines including emirates, cathay, air france and others fly both 777 and A340. emirates did not stop flying the A340 when they introduced the 777. in fact they ordered more A340 and introduced the A330 while a 777 customer. they also re-ordered the 777. i think airlines use the 777-300 in two class configurations for high density travel in place of 747. A340 are being outfitted with lavish 3 class layouts and end up flying smaller numbers of passengers. i think the 777 is employed in a different market than the A340 is.

boeing is somehow able to sell a few customers large numbers of aircraft, see SIA UA BA. airbus in turn sell small numbers of aircraft to many airlines. the result is that it may appear that boeing is outselling airbus, but if you compare the numbers they are about equal.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:30 am

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 11):
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 7):
The A350 is its own family...if it doesn't sell, Airbus is in some serious trouble.

350 is not a new disign and has lot in common with boh 330 and 340 family.

I think the person meant to say was that the A350 is a new program, based on the A330.
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wingman
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:38 am

Seems to me that Boeing doesn't need a new full time CEO. They're doing much better without one.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:38 am

Also Quoting from the old thread:

Both the A345 and 772LR surpass the 787 in range and that title actually belongs to the former.

The 340 has 7,450 (200/300), 7,500 (-600) and 8,500 (-500)

The 787-8 has a range of 8,500 and -9 8,300 So I'd say the lighter 787 matches matches the lighter -500 and the heavier -9 puts a good spanking on the heavier -600. As far as the 772LR... I'm waiting to see how long and far it can fly full of fuel and no payload for shits a giggles.
 
commavia
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:39 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
Actually, it will never fly in bare silver metal. The fusealge will be composite, and likely black.

You can paint composites. See AA's A300s before the mid-1990s. The bare metal of AA is one of the airline's most distinctive brand eliments. I am sure that AA will find a way to make a silver 787 possible, even if it is silver paint and not silver metal.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:41 am

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 10):
Engines to be chosen in the next 90 days.

Thanks!

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 12):
QR has a tender for 69 787/A350,

Wow! Prepare for a big round on this. This could be HUGE for the A350 and thus the "new Boeing" will be ready.  box 

Quoting N60659 (Reply 13):

Lightsaber, there is a lot of speculation about this going on here. Hope this helps.
-N60659

Thanks. Wow, the 787 generates HUGE threads! I love it!
lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
N1120A
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:43 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 30):

You can paint composites. See AA's A300s before the mid-1990s. The bare metal of AA is one of the airline's most distinctive brand eliments. I am sure that AA will find a way to make a silver 787 possible, even if it is silver paint and not silver metal.

I realize that, I was just pointing out that AA would actually have to paint the planes. I personally think they are brilliant in keeping that scheme

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 29):
The 340 has 7,450 (200/300), 7,500 (-600) and 8,500 (-500)

Only X versions of the A343 have 7450nm range and only one A342 (a private plane at that) has that kind of range.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
commavia
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:45 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
I realize that, I was just pointing out that AA would actually have to paint the planes. I personally think they are brilliant in keeping that scheme.

In that case, thank you. I'm sorry I was not more clear in my original post. And yes, I too think that AA's commitment to that livery (since 1968!) is incredible. It is timeless and has stood the test of time beautifully. (And damn does it look good at sunset.)
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:45 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Only X versions of the A343 have 7450nm range and only one A342 (a private plane at that) has that kind of range.

That was my point. His post in the other thread claimed the 340 smoked the 787 in range.  Smile
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting Mark_D. (Reply 9):
The 3fitty or whatever it may morph into will sell, it hath been decreed just for domestic economy/political reasons alone among EU member states, and maybe a number of key foreign trading partners worldwide as well. Kind of just like with the major 787 launch customers themselves

And I suppose you have some magical proof to support this claim? Because based on what I see, the A350 has sold only 10 airplanes, and no other airlines are rumored to be SERIOUSLY looking at it.

Quoting Glom (Reply 14):
So what is the order book like?

I'm not bashing the 772LR. The 777 is my favourite, but I remember that it wasn't selling that well at first and this was often used as a retort to the A350's poor order book.

Current outstanding 777 orders by series:

777-200A: 6
777-200ER: 65
777-200LR: 5
777-300A: 4
777-300ER: 94
Total: 174

That's from Boeing's website, and doesn't include the AC order or the AI order.

As others have pointed out, and as I said earlier, the 777-200LR doesn't need to sell very many copies, because the other members of the family (namely the -300ER) more than make up for any lag in -200LR sales.

The A350 is a NEW family, based on an older family. You can't group A330 and A350 sales together because they are not in the same family. Right now, the A350 is failing to do what it needs to do, sell, and that is going to land Airbus in some serious trouble.
 
ContinentalFan
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:07 am

In case the original thread falls off the main page: AC Orders 777 (18/18) And 787 (18/42) (by Boeing7E7 Apr 25 2005 in Civil Aviation)
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:14 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 25):
First, at the absolute peak of 777-200ER orders/deliveries, the backlog for an order was never more than 2.5 years. The 787 will have more production capacity than the 777, and it will be some time before these airlines will be in any position to order.

Second, these airlines will be looking for a 763ER replacement, of which the A358 is no such airplane.

The 787 is a 767 replacement, what the A350 is? Hard to say: it's neither a 777 replacement or a 767 replacement or a 787 competitor.

Thanks for your reasoned responses. Always appreciate the black and white of it.

I'm pretty weak in the tech area, and I couldn't tell you the exact stats of the 787 or the A350, but it seems that the two are aiming at somewhat different segments, and that the A350 is primarily getting trashed because it doesn't directly fit the role that the 787 is trying to fill. It seems that the A350, if it is indeed launched, may see more of a steady trickle of orders once we get beyond this 787 order-fest. Does that seem reasonable or completely out-of-the-question?

-Dave
-Dave
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:18 am

The 350 was made larger to offset fuel efficiency by balancing pax load and projected fuel burn. With a direct 332/333 capacity replacement they can't match 787 fuel burn per pax without going fully bleedless. Airlines don't really want a larger aircraft, they want a direct replacement with better fuel burn and economics.
 
N60659
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:21 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 38):
Airlines don't really want a larger aircraft, they want a direct replacement with better fuel burn and economics.

I guess EK is the exception as they have been pressing Boeing to increase seating for the 789 closer to 300 pax. Other than that one example, I agree with you.
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panam330
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:23 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 18):
AA would love to offload their non-standard, maintenance-intensive A300 fleet.

Apparently you have not a clue in regards to AA's operations. The A300 is an absolute cash cow ex-NYC and MIA, to LatAm and the Caribbean. The 767 is too small for the cargo traffic AA has, and the 777 far too large for most routes. The A300, IMO, is the best thing to have happened to AA's LatAm/Caribbean network.


Back on topic, congrats to AC for the order; I most certainly didn't expect them to unload relatively new Airbus widebodies, that's for sure!
 
B707Stu
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:24 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 35):
The A350 is a NEW family, based on an older family. You can't group A330 and A350 sales together because they are not in the same family. Right now, the A350 is failing to do what it needs to do, sell, and that is going to land Airbus in some serious trouble.

Quite true. And the 787/777 program is equivalent to the B707 coming onto the marketplace. The early signs are in, huge sales, a shift from Airbus to Boeing by a major carrier like AC, and the beginning of enlightenment that Boeing's marketing research department were on the money in figuring out the type of aircraft for the future in the long haul market.

I'd be sad to see the A345/A346 program go but I think, unless something tragic happens, the four engine trans-atlantic mid-sized long haul aircraft is doomed. Airbus ending up being proud of the A380 reminds me of the Concorde, a wonderful idea and brilliant aircraft that never really made it in the market.

I'm sure Airbus is far from finished and they will counter-volley quite well. Having said that one can't dismiss the fact that recent events indicate this strong movement (10 yrs maybe) toward Boeing. Something the American economy can well use.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:31 am

Quoting N60659 (Reply 39):
I guess EK is the exception as they have been pressing Boeing to increase seating for the 789 closer to 300 pax. Other than that one example, I agree with you.

EK has lost their minds trying to push both Airbus and Boeing into a specific aircraft for them. Neither has matched said demands and neither should. You can't make a profit doing that. The 767-400 is the most recent example of such a blunder.
 
BWIA330
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:32 am

I still cant believe air canada went with Boeing. Not saying that is bad or anything, but i thought they were going with Airbus all the way. I still think its a shocker. There are rumours Air Transat is going this way as well with 777's and 787's. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

Regards,

BWIA330
 
redflyer
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:38 am

Quoting BWIA330 (Reply 43):
I still cant believe air canada went with Boeing.

I think this is why this thread and the preceding one that was closed has generated so many (heated) responses. I don't believe anyone predicted AC would endorse Boeing on such a large scale and certainly not by slamming the door on Airbus in this market segment. Think about it: AC still has 340's on order that they have now cancelled. When was the last time anyone made such a supplier swap in mid-stream? SQ?
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:39 am

The other was closed due to bandwidth limitations of some of the members.
 
galapagapop
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:40 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 12):
NW is rumored to be leaning heavily toward Boeing

AA, UA, DL are not in any stage of seeking to aquire new 200-300 seaters. AA would probably be the first to act, and I believe they just said they won't analyize either aircraft until 2007

LH and AF are also in no hurry to replace their A330s, but if when such an order is tendered, I don't forsee either OEM having an automatic "in"

In terms of major customers that are ordering in the near term, QR has a tender for 69 787/A350, China will likely buy A350, and ILFC orders are all likely in the future.

AA just said their interested in the 787 after no talk from those mAAd men. They have the contract with Boeing and have 400+ deliveries left on it and I'm sure they got some slots up their sleeves, as they have the cash, and now the income to support 787's....
 
gigneil
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:48 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 29):
The 340 has 7,450 (200/300), 7,500 (-600) and 8,500 (-500)

The only one of those numbers that's correct is for the 342/3.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 29):
The 787-8 has a range of 8,500 and -9 8,300 So I'd say the lighter 787 matches matches the lighter -500 and the heavier -9 puts a good spanking on the heavier -600.

Um, the A340-500 holds 80 more passengers in a standard 3 class config than the 787-8, and the A340-600 carries about 100 more than the 787-9. The comparison is hardly apt.

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N328KF
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:57 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 42):
EK has lost their minds trying to push both Airbus and Boeing into a specific aircraft for them. Neither has matched said demands and neither should. You can't make a profit doing that. The 767-400 is the most recent example of such a blunder

I think the 767-400 was profitable in and of itself. Certainly it was created for specific carriers, so why not price it accordingly? Anyhow, the USAF E-10 program represents another approximately 50 orders forthe 767-400.

Quoting Galapagapop (Reply 46):
AA just said their interested in the 787 after no talk from those mAAd men. They have the contract with Boeing and have 400+ deliveries left on it and I'm sure they got some slots up their sleeves, as they have the cash, and now the income to support 787's...

There is no contract. The Boeing/McDonnell Douglas merger conditions from the EU scuttled that. It remains as a gentleman's agreement between Boeing and AA/DL/CO. Eg. everyone involved is (still) living by the terms of the agreement, even if it is no longer binding. EU thought it it would buy Airbus something, and so far they are wrong.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
tinpusher007
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RE: AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2)

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:58 am

I delfinately see it as a given that AA/DL/UA/CO will order the 787 when (IF) they regain financial health. If for no other than the prestige of operating Boeing's latest and greatest aircraft....the fuel efficiency will be paramount. Even if the price of crude oil finally goes down, they will not forget the beating they took paying for fuel. For these four carriers, I believe its a matter of WHEN not IF...simple as that!
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."