FlyingTexan
Topic Author
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The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:49 am

May 3 US fare PIT-PHL USD 350+

May 4 US fare PIT-PHL USD 64

The Southwest Effect - numbers speak themself - need I say more?


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"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
redflyer
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:15 am

I love it. I hope WN puts the last nail in the coffin of that lame carrier. If ever there was reason why the hub-and-spoke system doesn't work, this is it -- when one carrier dominates the "hub".

Good riddance US Airways. I flew you only a few times; your service sucked; and I look forward to the day when an LCC like WN runs you into your grave.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
captaink
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:32 am

HMM i had to check RedFlyer's profile to make sure it was not a 16 year old.. But anyhow it is called freedom of speech, so we can say what we want...

Great fares though...
There is something special about planes....
 
quickmover
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:37 am

"I love it. I hope WN puts the last nail in the coffin of that lame carrier. If ever there was reason why the hub-and-spoke system doesn't work, this is it -- when one carrier dominates the "hub".

Good riddance US Airways. I flew you only a few times; your service sucked; and I look forward to the day when an LCC like WN runs you into your grave."

Yeah that will fix it. I'm sure WN has no intention of ever raising fares if they are the only ones on that route or any other. I've heard STL people cuss TWA and say the same thing. Guess what. They would like to have them back today. Those $49 STL-MCI fares are gone. WN is out for WN and no one else. There is nothing wrong with that because business is business. Just don't think that WN is the answer to everything. If they have a chance to jack up the fares, they will. Competition is king no matter who it is.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:39 am

At one time before Stephen Wolf took over USAir, I thought they were a pretty good airline. When I was going to college in Daytona Beach, I used to switch off between them and DAL to fly back to the San Francisco Bay Area. I especially like USAir's 727's and 767's.

I can't say how their service is now. I've heard both ways. Anyway, since I've moved to the Plain states, I had no use for USAir anymore. I'm sticking to AA for now.
 
redflyer
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:45 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 2):
HMM i had to check RedFlyer's profile to make sure it was not a 16 year old.. But anyhow it is called freedom of speech, so we can say what we want...

Oh, now that was a real mature reply. Instead of the personal attack, why not simply lay your argument out on the table like 95% of the rest of the posters on here do. Oh, I forgot, you're part of the other 5%.

Quoting FlyingTexan (Thread starter):
I'm sure WN has no intention of ever raising fares if they are the only ones on that route or any other.

Well, if you read my post without trying to read between the lines, you would have seen that half of my argument was against the hub-and-spoke system, which allows one carrier to dominate the hub. I value competition - something that you obviously fear.

With regards to my comment about US Airways going to its grave, that is one sick airline. And after two trips into bankruptcy it is not getting any better. It would be in everyone's best interest for it to just go away and something else to rise from, or acquire, its financial ashes.

But in the final analysis, if it does go the way of Eastern, TWA, etc., I do hope another carrier takes its place...just to make sure WN doesn't get too greedy.

Best regards
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:54 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 1):
I love it. I hope WN puts the last nail in the coffin of that lame carrier. If ever there was reason why the hub-and-spoke system doesn't work, this is it -- when one carrier dominates the "hub".

Good riddance US Airways. I flew you only a few times; your service sucked; and I look forward to the day when an LCC like WN runs you into your grave.

Yay! Thousands people out of work!

AAndrew
 
redflyer
Posts: 3882
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:07 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 6):
Yay! Thousands people out of work!

Really, you should come up with a better reply. That one is really worn out here on A.Net.

The fact is, the market demands are there to support those people because another airline would simply step in US Airways' place. They would simply end up working for a different airline (assuming they wanted to continue working in the industry).
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
DeltaMIA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:53 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 3):
Those $49 STL-MCI fares are gone. WN is out for WN and no one else.

I still show WN as offering $49 fares between MCI-STL. All short segments WN is a savior, however the longer the segments get the more WN is looking out for theirselves.
For instance cheapest WN fare TPA-LAX is $402 roundtrip. Song is $268.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
IslipWN
Posts: 1082
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 1:05 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:19 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 1):
I love it. I hope WN puts the last nail in the coffin of that lame carrier. If ever there was reason why the hub-and-spoke system doesn't work, this is it -- when one carrier dominates the "hub".

Good riddance US Airways. I flew you only a few times; your service sucked; and I look forward to the day when an LCC like WN runs you into your grave.

I totally agree!! AHHH But I want US to prosper and be in the air forever! Yeah sure  Wink (shhh...I'm flying US on Sun, Very rare, never fly them, used miles to upgrade, and don't want to jynx my flight)


Joe
 
coewr777
Posts: 420
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:21 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 1):
I love it. I hope WN puts the last nail in the coffin of that lame carrier. If ever there was reason why the hub-and-spoke system doesn't work, this is it -- when one carrier dominates the "hub".

Good riddance US Airways. I flew you only a few times; your service sucked; and I look forward to the day when an LCC like WN runs you into your grave.

i smell a lcc vs legacy battle!watch what you say hot shot.
 
FlyingTexan
Topic Author
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:22 pm

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 8):
For instance cheapest WN fare TPA-LAX is $402 roundtrip. Song is $268.

Incorrect – Southwest charges a max of 299+ which normally totals up to 312 and change.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
DeltaMIA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:53 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:25 pm

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 11):
Incorrect – Southwest charges a max of 299+ which normally totals up to 312 and change.

I think you missed seeing the "roundtrip" part of my post. WN's max of $299 is for one way travel.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
coewr777
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:26 pm

Really, you should come up with a better reply. That one is really worn out here on A.Net.

The fact is, the market demands are there to support those people because another airline would simply step in US Airways' place. They would simply end up working for a different airline (assuming they wanted to continue working in the industry).

What company do you work for? I wish they went out of buiesness, so you and your workers are out of work. If Us goes under thats alot of people losing their jobs some not having a college education and may not have a new job so how are they going to feed their families?
 
atrude777
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:28 pm

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 11):
Incorrect – Southwest charges a max of 299+ which normally totals up to 312 and change.

your speaking in one way, he is speaking in round trip.

the most expensive WN will charge, round trip thats a max 2 stop one connecting each way, is

$633.70

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
redflyer
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:31 pm

Quoting COEWR777 (Reply 10):
i smell a lcc vs legacy battle!watch what you say hot shot.

Before you think otherwise, you should know I fly anywhere from 200k to 250k each year. Given my travel schedule, I PREFER the "concept" of the legacies -- full-service.

Unfortunately, I've found it more convenient and more pleasant to fly LCCs such as Southwest and jetBlue. And their prices are usually less.

Why? Because their business model is more in-tune with the times. They have evolved. The legacies have not. They still cling stubbornly to a business model that is almost three decades old. I've said it before in other posts and I'll say it again, in business, just like in life, you either evolve or you die.

As a heavy business traveler, if I have more opportunity to fly the likes of Southwest or jetBlue, then it simply translates into more convenience and less cost for me.

Best regards
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:31 pm

Quoting COEWR777 (Reply 13):
What company do you work for? I wish they went out of buiesness, so you and your workers are out of work. If Us goes under thats alot of people losing their jobs some not having a college education and may not have a new job so how are they going to feed their families?

I bet if US was to go under, most if not all jobs would be replaced because WN would be beefing up operations there.
 
FlyingTexan
Topic Author
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:44 pm

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 12):
I think you missed seeing the "roundtrip" part of my post.

I did and I stand corrected.

Doesn’t Delta have a $50 change fee and that non-transferability?

 

Back to my thread starting post – US’s fares for a 1 hour flight are more than WN’s maximum – even for a cross country flight?

[Edited 2005-04-26 05:51:04]
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
redflyer
Posts: 3882
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:45 pm

Quoting COEWR777 (Reply 13):
What company do you work for? I wish they went out of buiesness, so you and your workers are out of work. If Us goes under thats alot of people losing their jobs some not having a college education and may not have a new job so how are they going to feed their families?

Actually, I once worked for a company that went belly-up and left me stranded. Literally. I was stranded in DCA and had to pay my own way home, back to my family. But all was not lost. I landed on my feet within short order. Why? For one, I saved for a rainy day, as everyone should. Second, I had been going back to school so that I could pursue a different career. And I'm now self-employed.

Which, by the way, is a far more precarious situation to be in than some folks getting fat off of their union contracts in a cushy job with a legacy airline.

But personal insults (your insults) aside, the US Airways employees will land on their feet, even if the want to remain in the industry. Someone else will step in to take up the demand, even if it's WN simply expanding to take the place of US Airways.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:50 pm

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 17):
Doesn’t Delta have a $50 change fee and that non-transferability?

DL does on non-refundable fares as well as tickets being non-transferable.

However Song (the airline quoted vs. WN) only has a $25 change fee. Which would mean after 5 changes you are still cheaper than the original WN fare.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:52 pm

When WN started RDU-PHL...I watched USAir's walk-up fare go from $489 to $99 overnight to match WN's promotion. That's just one instance, but imangine that in many of US's markets from PHL and PIT and that's gotta take a significant chunk out of the yield...
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:56 pm

$350 for a rt flight PIT-PHL (before WN)? I don't care if there is no competition on the route, you don't charge me $175 for a 1hr. flight!!

JetBlue, on the other hand, the only airline servicing Boston to San Jose, sells seats from $89 each way. A 5hr. longer flight at half the price!

Just goes to show you that LCC's are a bit more "down to earth."

Nonetheless, I wish US the best of luck simply for the fact that they employ tens of thousands of people, and seeing those people get laid off is such a horrid thing. Other than that, the airline's management is run by a bunch of crackheads.

Best,

JetBluefan1
 
FlyingTexan
Topic Author
Posts: 2998
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:59 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 21):
$350 for a rt flight PIT-PHL (before WN)? I don't care if there is no competition on the route, you don't charge me $175 for a 1hr. flight!!

That $350 is one way before the canyon blue 737s invade - even worse!
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:02 pm

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 3):
Those $49 STL-MCI fares are gone.

For quite a while during their "systemwide savings" which lasted as a booking period for several months, routes like these were $39 each way.

Anyway, the main thing that makes WN great is the fact that I can walk up and pay about $110 for an OKC-STL leg, and a similarly lengthed DFW-MEM walkup fare is approximately TEN TIMES as much (around $1043).

And DFW-MEM supposedly has competition.

WN's fare structure does not play favorites for certain cities and gouge other cities. Their walkup fares are good for anyone, to anywhere they fly.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
DeltaMIA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:53 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:02 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 21):
JetBlue, on the other hand, the only airline servicing Boston to San Jose, sells seats from $89 each way. A 5hr. longer flight at half the price!

B6 doesn't make money on that fare, but it looks good to the consumer.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:12 pm

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 24):

B6 doesn't make money on that fare, but it looks good to the consumer.

B6 posted a profit, as opposed to delta losing over a billion dollars every few months. B6 is making money with their fare structure.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
DeltaMIA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:53 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 25):
as opposed to delta losing over a billion dollars every few months.

What does my statement have to do with DL?

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 25):
B6 is making money with their fare structure.

Well there is no doubt that B6 is profitable just not on every route. Just ask B6.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2860
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:23 pm

B6 doesn't make money on that fare, but it looks good to the consumer.

That could be true. Of course, it depends on how many people buy that fare before the promotion ends, how full the flights are, etc. And then, of course, JetBlue is trying to get themselves known in BOS and therefore is offering some very steep discounts to get people talking. Nothing wrong with that in my book, and actually a smart plan from a marketing perspective.

However, my point is that some airlines find the ability to charge small amounts on routes where they are the only carrier, whereas others charge a lot. I guess it really comes down to one feature: demand. Demand for BOS-SJC is low while demand for PIT-PHL is very high. What I don't understand, however, is why US didn't drop their fare to $79 and double capacity. Wouldn't this be revenue positive because of the surge in demand?

JetBluefan1
 
DeltaMIA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:53 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:34 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 27):
That could be true.

I knew that and figured somebody would list the reasons why. It would have taken away from my bluntness if I had explained all that.  cheerful 

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 27):
What I don't understand, however, is why US didn't drop their fare to $79 and double capacity

Probably because they presently have a 95% market share with a lot of loyal fliers. If they see that market share drop 20% then they would likely find a way to keep people flying US. While some patrons will appreciate WN's fare, it isn't exactly the leisure market. Business travelers are flying on corporate contracts so 50% off of $250/way is a little easier to swallow.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
SonOfACaptain
Posts: 1695
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:07 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 5):
Oh, now that was a real mature reply. Instead of the personal attack, why not simply lay your argument out on the table like 95% of the rest of the posters on here do. Oh, I forgot, you're part of the other 5%.

Dude, his reply is far more mature than your original post. I have NEVER heard of a person who loves aviation that wants an airline to go out of business, especially considering the size of US.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 7):
Really, you should come up with a better reply. That one is really worn out here on A.Net.

You know, for one who would be personally affected by it, I think he had a damn good reply. Thousands losing their job never gets old. How ignorant of you to say this. I would hope you would have some maturity at age. For goodness sake man, come on.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
brons2
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:16 pm

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 3):
Yeah that will fix it. I'm sure WN has no intention of ever raising fares if they are the only ones on that route or any other. I've heard STL people cuss TWA and say the same thing. Guess what. They would like to have them back today. Those $49 STL-MCI fares are gone. WN is out for WN and no one else. There is nothing wrong with that because business is business. Just don't think that WN is the answer to everything. If they have a chance to jack up the fares, they will. Competition is king no matter who it is.

How wrong you are!

At the following link:

http://www.southwest.com/cgi-bin/lowFareFinder

I put in departure city STL and arrival city MCI, guess what?

Lots of $49 Fun Fares appeared on that route, so long as you are willing to book at least 14 days in advance!

The other fare that appeared, Refundable Anytime (basically, full economy fare on the route) is $76 only!!! and it's available on any date on the schedule!!!

You are talking out of your posterior. Some high fares :rollseyes:
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
DeltaMIA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:53 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:20 pm

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 30):
How wrong you are!

At the following link:

The link doesn't work, but I will vouch for you that WN does have a great market in STL to MCI with $49 being the low fare and $76 being the high fare.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:27 pm

The theme of "an airline needs to go under for the good of the industry" vs. "people will lose their jobs" seems to occur all the time.

At some point, however, you simply can't justify keeping a business afloat that is losing upwards of a billion dollars a year simply for the good of the employees. I certainly do not want for anyone to lose their jobs, but when a company is charging upwards of ten times as much as their profitable competitor and still losing money in bunches, it becomes really difficult to justify their continued existence.

The "invisble hand" of the free market works to support profitable companies and eliminate unprofitable ones.

I certainly don't want to see people lose their jobs, but I would rather see the airline industry become profitable again. If USAir doesn't want to have to leave their employees in the cold, they need to become profitable. If I were a US employee, I would be going back to school right now to try to find a job in another field, and/or seriously filling out applications for carriers in better financial standing.

The numbers don't lie. Carriers cannot lose billions of dollars indefinately. Sometime, the money is going to run out.

Son of a captain, I understand that the fall of USAir would be a very personal catastrophy for your family, due to your dad's occupation. I certainly do not wish bad circumstances on anyone.

If USAir were profitable, no one would be calling for their demise. They are simply stating the obvious: If a business is losing money indefinately, the should not exist. Its as simple as that.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
brons2
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:31 pm

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 31):
The link doesn't work, but I will vouch for you that WN does have a great market in STL to MCI with $49 being the low fare and $76 being the high fare.

Eh, try this one:

http://www.southwest.com/cgi-bin/lowFareFinderEntry
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
Coronado990
Posts: 1312
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:12 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:38 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 15):
I've said it before in other posts and I'll say it again, in business, just like in life, you either evolve or you die.

Maybe if you loved thy neighbor instead of competing with them, life wouldn't have to be like a business.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
SonOfACaptain
Posts: 1695
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 5:36 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:43 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 32):

At some point, however, you simply can't justify keeping a business afloat that is losing upwards of a billion dollars a year simply for the good of the employees. I certainly do not want for anyone to lose their jobs, but when a company is charging upwards of ten times as much as their profitable competitor and still losing money in bunches, it becomes really difficult to justify their continued existence.

I understand this, and I completely agree, BUT, I believe most people are underestimating US. All they see is an airline losing money today, but they are not looking towards the future. I believe that if US can get over this bump, the will be in a great position, especially if they merge with HP. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but these people are only looking at the facts that wave white flags. They don't see the potential US has in store.

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 32):
If USAir doesn't want to have to leave their
employees in the cold, they need to become profitable.

I don't think they are worried about leaving the employees out in the cold, since well, they kind of already have, but I do know they are working hard to become profitable. In fact, people need to give more credit than they do. If not for the price of fuel, US would be making money, along with a lot of airlines. It is a shame that US has worked so hard, and done so many things right, that that can just be tossed aside because of fuel.

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 32):
Son of a captain, I understand that the fall of USAir would be a very personal catastrophy for your family, due to your dad's occupation.

Well, considering he already lost his job, along with his retirement, US going to the grave will only be another thing gone wrong. Man, this industry sucks! Yet, ask me why I want to get into it, lol.

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 32):
If I were a US employee, I would be going back to school right now to try to find a job in another field, and/or seriously filling out applications for carriers in better financial standing.

Trust me, it is a lot harder than you think.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:46 pm

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 34):

Maybe if you loved thy neighbor instead of competing with them, life wouldn't have to be like a business.

Life is a competition. You can still "love they neighbor" while taking steps to "evolve" personally to be more competative.

For instance, I will graduate with a bachelor's degree in chemistry in a few weeks. I know that many people do not go to college, and I will have an advantage over them. I suppose by your logic i shouldn't have gone to college at all. This would be competing with people and not loving them. I shouldn't better myself, because if I really loved others, I wouldn't do anything to make myself more successful than them.

If that is what you are trying to say with that statement, I have to respectfully say that it doesn't make any sense. The meaning of life is to do what you can to compete with the world. You do not have to step on anyone's toes to do it if you don't want to. Then, when you have created a comfortable life for yourself, you really then have the rescources to "love thy neighbor".

After the money I'll have made from my job attained from my college degree has been saved and invested, I'll really then be able to "love they neighbor" by giving a large sum of money to help out the less fortunate. Ironically, this help will probably go to those who thought they shouldn't evolve because they wanted to "love thy neighbor"
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
iowaman
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:03 pm

Question, WN has some reallly low fares, but in June why is the lowest fare $336 R/T LAS-MCI? YX is cheaper by far.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:47 pm

It looks like PHL-PIT travelers are being given another chance of low fares due to competition. Unlike previous attempts w/Nations Air (whom US literally ran out of town a few years ago) and, more recently, FL (who just gave up on the route); WN will hopefully keep this route for good and that PIT travelers won't repeat the same mistake as in the past by only flocking to US for the matched fares or undercut advance purchase fares.

Keep in mind, that it's usually the last-minute walk-up fares in which LCCs like WN and others usually have the greatest fare advantage.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
redflyer
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:23 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 29):
Dude, his reply is far more mature than your original post. I have NEVER heard of a person who loves aviation that wants an airline to go out of business, especially considering the size of US.

"Dude"? You don't know me well enough to refer to me as "dude". Fortunately, for the both of us, you never will.

As for the rest of your comment, I know plenty of people who love aviation. Unlike you and your ilk, we are saddened by the sad state of affairs of the current airline industry because of a few lame, ill-run carriers. On the contrary, myself and many others like me look forward to the day when some airlines will either cease to exist or will manage to morph into something better. We look forward to CHANGE. CHANGE is good. CHANGE means evolving in order to better compete and better serve. Not changing, which your beloved US Airways manages to do, means running around with the mindset of 30 years ago trying to serve the market of 30 years ago.

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 29):
How ignorant of you to say this.

Now there's a really mature reply. And if you knew anything about economics, which you obviously don't, you'd know that those same employees would get absorbed by WN or another carrier. Why? In the simplest terms (just to make sure your simple mind understands), if there is a market demand for US Airways to be running 2000 daily flights (or whatever the number is) then another carrier will simply step in and take up those flights to make sure the market demands are met so that they can make money.

After all, we're in a capitalist system. We're in it because we want the freedom to choose our own destiny and to be able to make money in one form or another so that we can in fact choose our destiny and follow our dreams (however simple-minded they may be -- like yours). If it scares you to be in a capitalist system then I can think of a few geographical regions in the world where you'll feel much more at home.

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 29):
I would hope you would have some maturity at age.

I've got plenty more than you, "Dude".

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 34):
Maybe if you loved thy neighbor instead of competing with them, life wouldn't have to be like a business.

I'd hate to be your neighbor. Obviously, you don't know enough about "thy neighbor" and, in particular, relationships, to know that all things in life evolve. I don't compete in personal relationships. But I do grow in them because I evolve just as the relationship does.

Best regards,

"Dude"
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
travelin man
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:48 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 8):
For instance cheapest WN fare TPA-LAX is $402 roundtrip. Song is $268.

I'm not sure I understand the point. WN charges rational fares, not the lowest fare. It is why they are profitable, and Song/Delta is not.
 
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casinterest
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:53 am

The reason the southwest fare of 402 is there, is probably because they sold out all the lower cost baskets, in one of the directions.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:02 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 40):
I'm not sure I understand the point. WN charges rational fares, not the lowest fare. It is why they are profitable, and Song/Delta is not.

1. The thread is about WN's ability to control a market through their pricing power. When WN can't control a market their fares are higher than the average fare. The fare I quoted is their lowest fare in that market which happens to be $80 above the average. As they sell seats their "rational" fare inflates to nearly $300 above average. Not exactly beneficial to the consumer.

2. Not a single WN advertisement states that they are the "rational fare" airline. In fact WN is very proud that they just hit 20 years of "low-fare" service in Chicago.

3. The fare quoted was that of Song not Delta. Show me proof Song is not profitable with their fare structure. While DL is not profitable it has nothing to do with the performance of Song.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 41):
The reason the southwest fare of 402 is there, is probably because they sold out all the lower cost baskets, in one of the directions.

No $188 one-way is their lowest "fun fare." Going R/T with taxes it comes to $402 and some change.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:17 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 35):
They don't see the potential US has in store

Unfortunately, the invisible hand of the market does not bode well for USair's "potential". They have a lot of "potential", to struggle.

Some areas of discussion.

(1) USair once had fortress hubs at CLT, PHL, and PIT that did not have any low cost competition. Thier business model was based on being able to charge high fares in these markets. Now, WN has come to PHL and PIT, and Airtran to CLT. Airtran will offer fair, reasonable fares out of CLT as long as people don't mind connecting in BWI or ATL.

(2) They have a lot of LGA slots for the lucrative NYC market. However, thier advantage is dissapearing as an extremely popular and trendy new airline (Jetblue) has created a very successful setup at JFK, and they are about to have a major expansion when the E-190's come online.

(3) Much of their route network is concentrated on the east coast, which is completely over-served. Most East coast routes have now become high load low yeild routes.

(4) They have fleet problems. They have way too many aircraft types. Their 733, 734, and 767 fleet is aging, and there is not enough money to replace these planes with new A32x's or A330's.

(5) They have a lot of lucrative slots at DCA. This is still a relative strenghth for them, but with Indy offering absurdly low fares from IAD, this prevents them from charging as much as they would like.

(6)They lost a lot of loyal passengers with the baggage deabacle this last holliday season.

Bottom line:

They are seeing more low fare competition than they ever imagined. They need to evolve to match the efficiency of their compeititors. This is impossible with their current fleet and cost structure.

Their competition flies newer planes with decidedly better customer service overall. WN, Jetblue, and FL are all generally well regarded these days as far as customer service is concerned. That really can't be said about US.

US has a lot to overcome. No one is underestimating them, they are just pragmatically look at the numbers, and numbers don't lie.

I feel all the above discussion points are open to debate. I would love to discuss them if anyone disagrees.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
potomac
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:27 am

it is a far stretch to say that if usairways would go under, that it's employees would be absorbed into other carriers. yes, another carrier or other carriers would absorb (some) of the route structure and assets, but there is this issue of overcapacity. not to mention the fact that in most mergers and acquistions, there is a consolidation in workforce and resources to reach some cost efficiencies and effectiveness. if i were at usairways, i wouldnt be comfortable with any future scenarios.
 
travelin man
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:29 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 42):
2. Not a single WN advertisement states that they are the "rational fare" airline. In fact WN is very proud that they just hit 20 years of "low-fare" service in Chicago.

You were saying that WN is not the "lowest" fare out there. By your own admission, they never said they were the "lowest" fare, just "low" fares. And, at $188 each way from LAX-TPA, you can hardly call that a "high" fare. As I said, WN makes $$$ on their RATIONAL fares (however they market it -- "low fare", whatever -- is besides the point).

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 42):
While DL is not profitable it has nothing to do with the performance of Song.

Song is a subsidiary of Delta. Song contributes (or does not contribute) to Delta's profitability. Delta lost something like $1 billion. Are you telling me that Song is profitable, but the rest of Delta is dragging them down? Give me a break. I'd like to see some evidence published that says Song is profitable. Just because Song has the lowest fare on one route does not mean that a) the fare is rational, or b) Delta is making money off of it.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 46):
Give me a break. I'd like to see some evidence published that says Song is profitable

Yeah you and a bunch of DL's competitors, but it isn't going to be done. Song will just continue to expand the product on competitive routes and HOPE that some day they can do as well as the rest.  wink 
Unfortunately for Song they are a subsidiary of a parent company bleeding money, but that doesn't mean they aren't profitable.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 46):
You were saying that WN is not the "lowest" fare out there.

I never used the word lowest, so I don't know what or who you are quoting. I was giving a route where there is no WN effect and backing it with numbers.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
redflyer
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:51 am

Well now here's a great response. I just got the following email sent to me by a reader of this thread. Nice job! Anyone know who this bozo is that sends me a threatening email because he/she doesn't like my comments on this thread?

But I'll show a little more class and not identify the email address that it came from. I'm hoping it will draw out this individual to talk about his/her opinions in this forum, where they belong, and not in an inflammatory personal email. There's obviously a lot of emotions tied up in this individual. Perhaps we should not expect anything more. Hopefully, he/she will learn to channel some of that pent-up negativity into this forum where an intelligent discussion will reveal how much he/she in fact knows about the subject matter at hand and prove, once and for all, how little I know.

_________________


"I suggest you watch your comments here on A.Net. First of all you know very little about USAirways/Airline industry and it clearly shows with what you post. Secondly you only joined A.Net 61 days ago and with that kind of attitude you already have on certain subjects, it is only going to lead most if not all of your posts to be deleated, as other members on here will not tolerate the garbage that you post. If you are going to post atleast have it make sense and then you will be ok, but if not you will be thrown out like I have seen it done to other people who came on here with that same kind of attitude. Let this be a warinig, we DO NOT TOLERATE this kind of garbage on this site.

B

----------------------------------------------------------
Message was sent using the mail interface on Airliners.net http://www.airliners.net/"
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
travelin man
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RE: The Southwest Effect On May 4 - $64 PIT-PHL

Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 47):
I was giving a route where there is no WN effect and backing it with numbers.

The problem is you are comparing a route that WN does fly (albeit with stops) and saying there is no "Southwest effect". The whole point of this thread is that prior to WN's arrival, fares are HIGH (see $375+ for PIT-PHL). After WN arrives, fares DROP. You cannot look at a route WN currently serves, say they aren't the lowest price, and then say there is no WN effect. The question is, what would the fares be on TPA-LAX if WN did not fly it? My bet is they would be (much) higher.

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