greasespot
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Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:56 pm

Sorry no link,

Just hear on radio driving to work that Westjet has approached Transport Canada to fly to Hawaii and the U.K....

More later

GS
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matt
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:58 pm

There's an article about this in this morning's Globe and Mail.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...427.wxrwestjet27/BNStory/Business/
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BO__einG
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:07 am

The Hawaii route is in the process and it should work out later this year.
Which the airline will have no problem connecting Hawaii to like YVR or even YYC due to their longer range 737NG jets.
The UK one is a new one for me but I am willling to bet that it will most likely start off as charters as what they would do for Mexico and Carribean.
For north america, I don't know of any low cost carrier serving oversea destinations.
I also would suggest caution for expanding so quickly especially to international places as the airline's root is Canada and I don't want to see Westjet turn into a International or Intercontinental type of airline. It would deform their identity.
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B742
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:15 am

Good to see WestJet expanding globally!

WestJet would be great in the UK, but ill believe it when I see it!

If they would want to fly to the UK they would need a new A/c type like the A330/767 series. Could we ever see WestJet at LHR, or will it probably be just LGW or MAN?

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stirling
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:27 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
If they would want to fly to the UK they would need a new A/c type like the A330/767 series.

That might be if the routes are from Toronto, since I don't think the 737 (all-series) has the legs. But from St John's or Halifax, a 737 to the UK would certainly be within range specs.
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yyz717
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:28 am

WS may as well take advantage of the 73G range.
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Samurai 777
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:42 am

I'm not surprised at all about WestJet planning flights to Hawai'i. Sound more or less like a logical move when it's tapping into the leisure market and that Aloha is no longer flying into YVR as an alternative to AC. I don't think Air Pacific does, either.

But that move to fly to the UK is a surprise! I don't see how on earth WS is going to fly there unless: 1. it's going to do so from Halifax or St. John's (both unlikely, of course) 2. it get widebodies (not likely either). 3. it has a few of its 737NGs fitted with extra fuel tanks.

I do know that PrivatAir flies 737NGs across the pond to ORD and EWR from Europe, but these 737NGs are fitted with an all-J class configuration. I don't know how they do that unless it's because of a ligher payload due to fewer pax or if they fit them with extra feul tanks.
 
BMED
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:50 am

The 737 should be able to do the routes. British carrier Astraeus flies to Canada using their 737NG's. Not sure where abouts though the destination is located in Canada. i.e East coast or more central. It would be great to see a new carrier flying LCC routes across the pond.
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GuyBetsy1
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:55 am

They should forget UK as the market is a little saturated right now.. with BA/AC.. and charters.

They should instead fly maybe on routes that don't have much traffic ie Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt.

They could also aim for China and Korea. All 3 airlines flying between Seoul and Vancouver are booked solid every week, on every flight. Flights on AC and Air China are full between Canada and China.

Now thats where the real money lies.
 
gigneil
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:05 am

Westjet will not get any benefit from flying the UK on a 737.

Their business model is incompatible with that small sort of trip, whereas Privatair gets yields from being all business.

N
 
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yyz717
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:10 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9):
Their business model is incompatible with that small sort of trip,

Their business model is based on making money with 737's. Other than that, everything is on the table. It is not much of a stretch to fly a 7-hour YYZ-LGW (for instance) when WS already flies a 6-hour YHZ-YYC route.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:22 am

I thought AC had operated the A319 across the pond from YYT-LGW a few times a week in the late 90's?

At 2333mi, it is (by great circle mapper) shorter in length than the previously mentioned YHZ-YYC route, which taps in at 2334mi.

For those of us in the States, a comparable flight would be BWI-LAX at 2329mi.

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yyz717
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:30 am

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 11):
I thought AC had operated the A319 across the pond from YYT-LGW a few times a week in the late 90's?

That was a planned Skyservice 319 route, and it was more recent. Perhaps 2002 or 2003. Not sure if it ever operated.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
N1120A
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:53 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
That might be if the routes are from Toronto, since I don't think the 737 (all-series) has the legs. But from St John's or Halifax, a 737 to the UK would certainly be within range specs.

YYT and YHZ would be possible with 737s, though international departure taxes and the like would make trips more expensive for travelers. Additionally, the O&D would not be as strong as YYZ/YUL/YVR/YYC where at a minimum a 757 is required and WS would likely need 767s/787s

Quoting Samurai 777 (Reply 6):
I don't think Air Pacific does, either.

The do NAN-HNL-YVR
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bwaflyer
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:03 am

Astraeus operate LGW - YDF (Deer Lake) with the 73G. Flights have stopped for this month, but start again next month. Capacity is limited to 130ish (can't remember exact figure) due to total numbers that can be accommodated in the life rafts carried on board. Flight times are 6-6:30 west bound and 5:15-5:45 east bound and the crew operate it as a turnaround flight.
 
Samurai 777
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:09 am

Quoting N1120A:

The do NAN-HNL-YVR

Not anymore. I believe I heard something about Air Pacific no longer planning to fly HNL-YVR anymore last year. Besides, I fly into YVR a few times a year.
 
BO__einG
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:10 am

When WJ hits the longer routes like HI or UK, they better start serving passengers with more than just orange juice and cookies/pretzels.

Even for a LCC, nobody would stand sitting 5-7hrs being fed off those, or you will debark weak as a twig.

On another note, they are starting San Diego flights in a month so that will be nice!
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N1120A
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 16):
When WJ hits the longer routes like HI or UK, they better start serving passengers with more than just orange juice and cookies/pretzels.

Even for a LCC, nobody would stand sitting 5-7hrs being fed off those, or you will debark weak as a twig.

Some of their routes are already longer than YVR-HNL, so it is not really an issue. YYZ/YVR/YYC-UK might be an issue

Quoting Samurai 777 (Reply 15):
Not anymore. I believe I heard something about Air Pacific no longer planning to fly HNL-YVR anymore last year. Besides, I fly into YVR a few times a year.

Yes they do. Check out both the route map and flight schedules at www.airpacific.com
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finchflites
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:17 am

Yup I heard that westjet Is Wanting to try the UK and Hawaii Flights too! I guess that they want to be like all the other carriers that have UK flights and file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection and have millions lost for each quarter report!
Good Luck to Westjet! I will be watching for all your aircraft arriving for there final flights to Mohave Desert!
Westjet was a profitable airline for each quarter report! Why destroy somthing when you are making a profit?!

Jay
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stirling
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:18 am

Quoting Samurai 777 (Reply 15):
Not anymore. I believe I heard something about Air Pacific no longer planning to fly HNL-YVR anymore last year. Besides, I fly into YVR a few times a year.

Air Pacific does indeed fly NAN-YVR, via HNL, with the 737-800(winglets)
FJ820/FJ821.
You might not have seen it since they only operate on Fridays and Sundays.
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trident2e
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:25 am

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 2):
For north america, I don't know of any low cost carrier serving oversea destinations.

How about Zoom from Canada to the UK?
 
N1120A
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:28 am

Quoting Trident2e (Reply 20):
Quoting BO__einG (Reply 2):
For north america, I don't know of any low cost carrier serving oversea destinations.

How about Zoom from Canada to the UK?

TZ flies to Hawai'i, which is domestic but over water. B6 and NK both serve Carribean destinations that are not that far away, but are international. F9 serves Mexico. FL serves the Bahamas
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Bluewave 707
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:41 am

Proof ... Here's a link to an Air Pacific 78H @ HNL ...
http://myaviation.net/?pid=00156192

WS will be up against HQ and AC, but has a good shot at giving the 2 some good competition. AC has discontinued ACA044/043 (seasonal) which arrived and departed midday. Both HQ and AC have late afternoon & evening flights. WS should fill the void of having day flights between Canada and Hawaii. I'd bet that AQ would do the ground handling just for the fact that they have 737s themselves, and also handle Air Pacific.

In fact, with a smaller aircraft, WS would only have to fill about 120 seats, as opposed to close to 200 in a 752, or 250+ in a 763. Plus, they could do the neighbor islands as well, if they are really ambitious.

[Edited 2005-04-27 21:42:18]
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finchflites
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:02 am

Zoom Airlines are moving the location to Abbotsford (YXX). Not sure of the reason for this but my wife works at the Abbotsford Airport, Supplying meals for pilots and crew members and she has just recived a notice that they will be prepairing food for Pilots, cleaning crew, and maintenance from zoom Airlines. They are Flying from YXX to Glasgow Airport 2 times a week. As well as for Alaska Airlines, Horizon Airlines and Southwest airlines.

Jay.

PS- Southwest is not a Passenger flight, It only goes there for routine check-ups.
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Samurai 777
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:09 am

@Bluewave707 - that pic is a little old. It's from July, 2004. I've seen A.net pics of Air Pacific at YVR even more recent than that.

@Stirling - Thanks for the correction. I decided to check the skeds more closely, and it does. I might not have seen their 738s probably because I'm not going in and out of YVR at the right time of day - Fridays and Sundays are actually one of the most common days of the week I fly in and out of YVR. But I usually take my flights later in the evening or ealy afternoon because I do not like the road traffic in Richmond and Vancouver during the late afternoon rush hour. I guess it's too easy to draw conclusions too fast.

But I remember having heard about some airlines being incredibly difficult for spotters to see at YVR because they'd go in and out either very early in the morning or very late at night. I think Aloha was one of them, in fact. That can often be because finding gate slot times can be very difficult or maybe cheaper for airlines to use at certain times of the day.

Now, back to the topic at hand....

Would applying for ETOPS certification like for the 767/777 take a long time for WestJet to do even if Transport Canada approves the routings?

[Edited 2005-04-27 22:17:09]
 
matt
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:43 am

Quoting Finchflites (Reply 23):
Zoom Airlines are moving the location to Abbotsford (YXX). Not sure of the reason for this but my wife works at the Abbotsford Airport, Supplying meals for pilots and crew members and she has just recived a notice that they will be prepairing food for Pilots, cleaning crew, and maintenance from zoom Airlines. They are Flying from YXX to Glasgow Airport 2 times a week. As well as for Alaska Airlines, Horizon Airlines and Southwest airlines.

If I'm not mistaken, Zoom will be flying once a week from Abbotsford to London (and not Glasgow). The flight, operated by a 763, will stop in Calgary.

Quoting BMED (Reply 7):
British carrier Astraeus flies to Canada using their 737NG's. Not sure where abouts though the destination is located in Canada. i.e East coast or more central.

Astraeus flies to Canada? Where to? Since when?
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finchflites
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:56 am

Matt- Yes, I just looked at her notice and you are right, Zoom from YXX to London. Appoligies.

Jay.

Edit: Do you know If Abbotsford airport can even supply the amount of runway that is needed for a Plane that size? I know that there are 2 757's there right now.

[Edited 2005-04-27 22:59:14]
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CXH
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 12):
That was a planned Skyservice 319 route, and it was more recent. Perhaps 2002 or 2003. Not sure if it ever operated.

True. Conquest had planned and even started to sell YHZ-YYT-LGW and return on their Skyservice A319 but cancelled it and just stuck to domestic for summer 2002 (or was it 2003?).

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 2):
The Hawaii route is in the process and it should work out later this year.
Which the airline will have no problem connecting Hawaii to like YVR or even YYC due to their longer range 737NG jets.
The UK one is a new one for me but I am willing to bet that it will most likely start off as charters as what they would do for Mexico and Carribean.

Yeah, I've heard since late last summer that Transat Tours wanted to do Hawaii. Several Tour Operators use WestJet, but Transat Tours has the closest link to them presently.

Not sure why they just don't ask Air Transat to fly a A310 or A330 to Hawaii. Maybe the plane would be too big, the aircraft positioning is wrong or TS hasn't got their ETOPS up sufficiently again  Wink
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BWIA330
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:40 am

Hey,

I think this is great that wesjet is expanding across the pond and into hawaii. But just my personal opinion, I would not fly anything smaller than a 757 across the pond to Europe. Im not sure how everyone else feels, but that is just my opinion. I hope westjet gets widebodied aircraft. That would be great to see.

Regards,

BWIA330
 
Tennisace
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:47 am

Yes, Abbotsford is 8000' with an extension to come. It's funny, because there was never any press release on this YXX service, not even on the ZOOM website. But it is in the timetables. I wonder if they decided to tack on a YYC-YXX-YYC extension to one of the Calgary flights as a last minute thing.

I wonder if the WJA service would be scheduled or a charter through Transat. A daily service might be too much capacity, with AC and HMY already established. Good luck to them.
 
accargo
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:09 am

WJ had a conference call this am regarding it's first quarter results. At that time Clive backpeddled big time about any plans to fly to the UK. He said that he had been misquoted, and it was not in the cards. Hawaii is awaiting ETOPS certification, which WJ is in the process of getting.
 
yul332LX
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:17 am

Quoting BWIA330 (Reply 28):
I hope westjet gets widebodied aircraft.

The day WS buys another type of aircraft will be remembered as they day WS committed suicide.
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yow
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:26 am

For north america, I don't know of any low cost carrier serving oversea destinations.

I would certainly consider Zoom to be a low cost transatlantic carrier, even if they do serve meals and have a small premium cabin.
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:12 am

Samurai-san picky desu nee? I put that link because a) I took that photo, and b) proving the point that Air Pacific uses 73Hs for transPac routes.
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BO__einG
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:11 am

Ahh, I did not realize that ZOOM of Ottawa was considered to be a low cost airline. I thought it was a charter such as that of Transat. If that is the case, then I guess you guys are right. ZOOM is one of the low cost airlines that flies over the ocean to Europe although they have full meal service and split cabins as what YOW had mentioned previous.
As for places like Hawaii and Carribean, it doesn't consider to be a transoceanic trip for obvious reasons as the trip is much shorter except HI. WestJet already has flights to the Carribean like SXM(charter basis).
Overall it still is pretty weird imagining 737s of a LCC hopping over the pond to serve Major cities in the UK or other parts of Europe. At Gatwick for instance, when you see twin, three hole or 4 engine heavies arriving from N.America lining up for takeoff, and out of nowhere a tiny void within those heavies show a small 737-700 heading back to Canada. That would be a pretty funny sight.

If this does take off, we may see European low costs invading our continent such as the likes of EasyJet, Ryan Air, and .. BMI Baby.. Competing against 747s,A380s..
Anyhow, good luck with that!
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clipperhawaii
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting Samurai 777 (Reply 24):
Bluewave707 - that pic is a little old. It's from July, 2004. I've seen A.net pics of Air Pacific at YVR even more recent than that.

The photo is a shot of Air Pacific in Hawaii on it's way to YVR. thus the reason why Bluewave posted it.

Here is another more "recent" one. Same smell. Not sure what your point was if you had one.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Je89 W.



Quoting Samurai 777 (Reply 24):
But I remember having heard about some airlines being incredibly difficult for spotters to see at YVR because they'd go in and out either very early in the morning or very late at night. I think Aloha was one of them

You may want to check that, AQ was well photographed at YVR.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Pierre Langlois



Nice photo of the Air Pacific on the ground at HNL Bluewave. West Jet may indeed fit right into that gate on it's run to Vancouver and I am sure you will be there to photograph it.

[Edited 2005-04-28 03:54:04]
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N1120A
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:59 am

Quoting Finchflites (Reply 26):

Edit: Do you know If Abbotsford airport can even supply the amount of runway that is needed for a Plane that size? I know that there are 2 757's there right now.

A 757 needs less runway than a 737/A32S, so having 757s at YXX should not be a shocker
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Samurai 777
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:29 am

Apologies are in order for Bluewave and a few others. If anything, it's all my fault entirely, okay?

Now...

What's with Zoom serving Abbotsford!? This sounds pretty strange here. Is Zoom trying to tap into the Lower Mainland market or are YVR's landing fees getting to be a bit much?
 
Cruiser
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:11 pm

To be honest, AC is very competitive on YYZ-LHR. I believe the ticket is around $429 CDN. I think that WJ will have a tough time attracting business given:

1) It won't be non-stop (from say YYZ)
2) Smaller Planes - People might worry more
3) I think a lower ETOPS rating
4) Little to no food service

Lets just hope that Westjet tries some other routes to the US first. The US destinations may be a little more profitable for Westjet.

Cruiser
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:17 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 38):
3) I think a lower ETOPS rating

Both the 737NG and A320 are capable of ETOPS 180, which is pleanty adequet for anything that WestJet could possibly fly with those aircraft....
 
finchflites
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:22 pm

My wife just got home from work and she read on a sheet of paper in an open briefcase that was with a bunch of suits (inadvertently of course) that Harmony Airways who is serviced at YXX that Harmony Airways Is also wanting to Have there flights operate out of Abbotsford. On the piece of paper it had a lot of airline lingo (she doesn't know much about airline abbreviations) but saw that it wants to operate YXX-LAS-YXX and YXX-HNL-YXX. She found that out because she heard them talking it over! I won't tell you exactly where she works at the airport (because I dont want her found out) But she is most of the time in a room where Airline reps and other officals meet serving them food and drinks or anything they want or need.

Jay.
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yyz717
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:39 pm

Maybe WS will start a weekly charter service YHZ-LGW or similar for a summer or two to test the operational effectiveness of the 73G transatlantic. I highly doubt a big jump into transatlantic ops.

Quoting C-XH (Reply 27):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 12):
That was a planned Skyservice 319 route, and it was more recent. Perhaps 2002 or 2003. Not sure if it ever operated.

True. Conquest had planned and even started to sell YHZ-YYT-LGW and return on their Skyservice A319 but cancelled it and just stuck to domestic for summer 2002 (or was it 2003?).

Thanks CXH. I had a feeling it did not operate.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
N1120A
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RE: Wesjet Wants To Fly To The UK And Hawaii

Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:23 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 39):
Quoting Cruiser (Reply 38):
3) I think a lower ETOPS rating

Both the 737NG and A320 are capable of ETOPS 180, which is pleanty adequet for anything that WestJet could possibly fly with those aircraft....

Adding to Rev's comment, all you need to do YHZ/YYT-UK/Ireland is ETOPS 120
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