AirEMS
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World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:50 am

I thought with the A380 having completed it's first flight I would ask the question - Who was, or still is the worlds most loyal Mcdonnell Douglas customer? Well if there was one? I thought it might be nice to think about a company that at one time made some really great aircraft...  old 


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TriStar500
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World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:54 am

Do you mean in absolute numbers purchased, number of aircraft operated or time span between first purchase/ operation and last purchase/ operation?
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
N1120A
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World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:55 am

SR and AC were most definately loyal MDC customers, as was JL
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SHUPirate1
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World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:57 am

Wouldn't that award have gone to American, with their endless supply of MD-80's?
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Sabena332
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World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:57 am

Alitalia maybe?

Patrick
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AeroWesty
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World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:01 am

I think Finnair holds the crown, at least in the jet era. They flew DC-8, DC-9, DC-10 and MD-80 jets, and are still picking up MD-11's on the used market so you could still call them an "active" MD customer. Not sure of what they flew in the prop era.

Second thought would be KLM, who had DC-2's in the early 1930's, and still fly MD-11's, but they aren't currently buying up used MD models.

Cheers.
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leelaw
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:06 am

How about Delta: DC-8, DC-9, MD-80, MD-11, MD-90?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
odafz
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:07 am

I hope we are not going to forget SAS which operated a wide range of MD air craftS ranging from the DC8, DC9-20. DC9-40, The MD-80 series and DC10

Austrian Airlines whose all fleet until the advent of airbus was MDC aircrafts (except a 707 operated for a brief period of time on VIE-BRU-JFK)

Delta airlines was also a very good customer of the Long Beach manufacturer (DC8,DC9,MD80, MD90, MD 11)
 
AirEMS
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:08 am

TriStar500 how about all of thoes?
If Your Dying Were Flying
 
Alitalia744
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:17 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 3):
Wouldn't that award have gone to American, with their endless supply of MD-80's?

American has MD-80's?

*Giggle*
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
N1120A
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:17 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 6):
How about Delta: DC-8, DC-9, MD-80, MD-11, MD-90?



Quoting ODAFZ (Reply 7):
Delta airlines was also a very good customer of the Long Beach manufacturer (DC8,DC9,MD80, MD90, MD 11)

They also flew a few DC-10s for a brief period.
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SHUPirate1
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:20 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 9):
American has MD-80's?

You must be from Miami.  Wink
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hodja
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:27 am

Quoting ODAFZ (Reply 7):

I seem to remember, that SK was actually the biggest DC9/MD8* operator outside North America at one point...
 
JoKeR
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 am

Considering the size of its fleet, JAT's DC-9s and DC-10s (previously with the DC-3s and DC-6s) formed quite a large part of it, hence definitely a loyal McDonnell Douglas client for over 40 years!
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Tan Flyr
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:31 am

Hey Guys..what about TWA...The first DC-3 and the last MD-80..Hmmm. From the mid 1930's to Dec. 1999(?)or even the MD-95? (B717)

Granted , there was a period of time from the late 70's or early 80's when they got rid of the early DC-9-15's until the first MD-80 came on in 1982 or 83 that there was no DC/MD product on the roster..but overall they were a long time customer.
 
N1120A
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:33 am

Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 14):
Hey Guys..what about TWA...The first DC-3 and the last MD-80..Hmmm. From the mid 1930's to Dec. 1999(?)or even the MD-95? (B717)

Granted , there was a period of time from the late 70's or early 80's when they got rid of the early DC-9-15's until the first MD-80 came on in 1982 or 83 that there was no DC/MD product on the roster..but overall they were a long time customer.

Actually, they flew the ONLY DC-1. Still, after Howard Hughes took over, they became very loyal to Lockheed and were the world's premier Connie operator, as well as flying L1011s to supplement the 747s.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
dtw9
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:37 am

TWA is a good one, as they took the first DC-2 and the last MD-83. They are the ones who started it all for Doug and ended it all .[remember the 717 is really a doug but called a boeing, so twa took the last McDonnell-Douglas aircraft produced]
 
leelaw
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:41 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
They also flew a few DC-10s for a brief period.

Indeed. They leased 5 from UA (which arrived factory fresh) in the seventies (72-75) as a hedge against potential delays in delivery of its TriStars (during the Rolls Royce crisis). They also inherited a rather large fleet of DC-10s (9) when they acquired Western Airlines in '87. However, these were disposed of within a couple of years.

I'm not sure Delta met the customer "loyalty test" when it came to the DC-10.


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[Edited 2005-04-27 21:48:58]
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elwood64151
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:42 am

Well, one could argue that ValuJet/AirTran was an extremely loyal MD customer. They started with the DC-9, picked up some MD-80s at one point, dropped the 737s after the merger, and kept the MD-95/717 program alive. Only now that Boeing has ended the 717 program are they buying the 737...

Granted they do not have the history that the other airlines do, but one has to admit that they stayed with MD even after their acquisition.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
OHLBU
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:47 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
I think Finnair holds the crown, at least in the jet era



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
Not sure of what they flew in the prop era

Finnair flew DC-2s (acquired from CSA before WW2) and a large number of DC-3s. One of the latter is still in flying condition and operated by DC ry (club providing flights for it´s members).

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It dates from -42 and was originally ordered by PanAm. I had a chance to fly on it a year ago from Helsinki-Malmi to Tallin, a great experience!

Finnair (and it´s predecessor Aero OY) was a very loyal Douglas customer and although MD-80s will be withrawn from service next year they are currently looking to boost the MD11-fleet to 7 aircraft.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:48 am

Well this is a stretch, but Ozark for a period of time was an exclusive MDD operator, DC-9-10/30/40, MD-80. Just had to get Ozark in there somehow.

But I think the awards would go to any operator who operated DC-8/9/10's, and/or MD-80/11.
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isitsafenow
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:51 am

This question needs to be fine tuned. McDonnell Douglas did NOT come to be
until the very late 60's. Before that it was Douglas.

Eastern with DC 4,6,7,8 and 9 and a couple of DC 10's(leased).
UA with DC 4,6,7, 8 and 10
Not TWA...they went with Lockheed and Boeing in the 50's and 60's
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
N1120A
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:53 am

Quoting Elwood64151 (Reply 18):
They started with the DC-9, picked up some MD-80s at one point, dropped the 737s after the merger, and kept the MD-95/717 program alive. Only now that Boeing has ended the 717 program are they buying the 737...

The elusive Elwood returns. How are you buddy? Anyway, just 2 small things there. With the 732s, they actually flew them until 2003 AFAIK. Also, they went 737 because of lack of range on the 717 and Boeings refusal to build the 717-300
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FriendlySkies
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:56 am

It's obviously NW...look at all those DC-9s they won't get rid of!  Wink

(someone had to say it)
 
Matt27
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting Hodja (Reply 12):
I seem to remember, that SK was actually the biggest DC9/MD8* operator outside North America at one point...

well, the DC9s are out of the fleet since a few years, and now the short-and medium range fleet mostly consists of MD80s/MD90s. Back in the 1980s SAS also used the DC-10.

...by the way I think a MD-11 would look awesome in SAS c/s...

//Mattias
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leelaw
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:01 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 23):
It's obviously NW...look at all those DC-9s they won't get rid of!

Unfortunately, none of these were purchased new from McDonnell Douglas.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
BillElliott9
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:05 am

NW: DC-3, DC-4, DC-6, DC-7, DC-8, DC-9*, MD-80*, and DC-10. Not too bad.

* From RC; all the rest were NW purchases.
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D950
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:05 am

Swissair had at one time or another, DC7, DC8, DC9(launch) 30 and 50 series, DC10, MD80, MD11. Moris is still using MDD with his MD90's at Hello!
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
prebennorholm
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:08 am

SAS was during long periods of time operating Douglas or MD planes exclusively.

They have had loads of practically all types since the DC-3.

DC-3, DC-4, DC-6, DC-7 (both early variants and the Seven-Seas), DC-8 (pratically all varients), DC-9 (-20, -30, -40, -50), has still an large fleet or various MD-80 variants, DC-10, and they picked up some of the very last MD-90 which is probably the most popular type in the current SAS fleet.

They missed the DC-2, the DC-5 (only a dozen produced for KLM) and the MD-11.

For some 20 years after retirement of the CV-440 in the late 60'es they operated only DC-8, DC-9, DC-10 and MD-80, except for operating two 747s for a short period of time.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
isitsafenow
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:08 am

FRIENDLYSKYS........ Hard to believe but Northwest did not buy one DC9 from the factory....not.........one.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
copenhagenboy
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:09 am

SAS have been using DC 3, DC 4, DC 6, DC 7, DC 8, different models of DC 9, DC 10, MD 81/82/83, MD 87 and also MD 90. In many years they had a very close cooperation with Douglas, and stayed as a loyal customer. In fact some of the models were developed in the need of SAS.

http://www.sasflightops.com/

look under History

[Edited 2005-04-27 22:17:02]
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 29):

Crap, I always forget that...oh well, they still fly them like they did! Big grin
 
ceo@afg
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:14 am

Well SAS sure loved the Douglas/McDonnell Douglas products, and even had a type custom made just for SAS, who was the only operator. DC 9-21

They operated the:
DC-3
DC-4
DC-6
DC-6B
DC-7C
DC 8-33
DC 8-55
DC 8-62
DC 8-63
DC 9-21
DC 9-32
DC 9-33F
DC 9-41
DC 9-51
DC 10-30
MD-81
MD-82
MD-83
MD-87
MD 90-30

The first DC-3 entered the fleet in 1937 (ABA a predecessor to SAS) and the MD-80s continues to soldier on, although they are slowly leaving the fleet, with the MD-90 fleet scheduled to leave the fleet by the end of 2005  cry 

SK even held options for the MD-11, but in the end felt the aircraft was to large, and opted for the B767-300ER instead.

For a good history of SAS and a good fleet list, visit plane-spotter.com http://www.plane-spotter.com/Airlines/SAS/index.htm
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue." Steven McCroskey, Airplane!
 
N1120A
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 16):
TWA is a good one, as they took the first DC-2 and the last MD-83.

Actually, they took the first and only DC-1

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 16):
[remember the 717 is really a doug but called a boeing, so twa took the last McDonnell-Douglas aircraft produced]

FL will be the ones to take the last MDC aircraft produced, if you count the 717 as an MDC aircraft
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fly727
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:21 am

Aeromexico has to be among the most loyal customers for MDD/DC.

They have had:

DC-3
DC-4
DC-6
DC-8-21/51/61/62/63.
DC-9-14/15/25/31/32.
DC-10-15/30
MD-82/83/87/88.

From 1969 when AeroMexico got their first and up until the mid-90's its fleet was composed only of MDD/Douglas Commercial aircraft.

In 1984, celebrating Aeromexico's 50th Anniversary; AM had 50 MDD; from the older DC-8s to the brand-new MD-82s, all of which were acquired direct from the factory.


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dtw9
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:12 am

Actually Lufthansa took delivery of the last MDD product the MD-11F{I forgot] As far as the 717 goes, it is a MDD design, but is delivered as a Boeing. Now for the DC-1, it was a prototype only,the DC-2 was the production model. Yes TWA took delivery of it and even used it for a few flights but the DC-2 was the real beginning of Douglas. And last but not least lets remember KLM was the only user of the DC-5
 
dtwclipper
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:32 am

Quoting D950 (Reply 27):
Swissair had at one time or another, DC7, DC8, DC9(launch) 30 and 50 series, DC10, MD80, MD11. Moris is still using MDD with his MD90's at Hello!

Are you sure that SR was the launch for the DC-9-30? IB was the first euro operator of the -30 on 29 July 1967.
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jfklganyc
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:39 am

TWA!!! First and last commercial airplane from douglas/md
 
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aloha73g
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:48 am

Hawaiian is not too shabby. From their first DC-9 until the 763s a few years back they had a pure McD fleet (DC9, DC10, DC8). Throw in a few L10s and some Dash 7s as well.

Plus Hawaiian still flies the 717  Smile

-Aloha!
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commavia
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:57 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 11):
You must be from Miami.

LOL

I think that based on just numbers, AA is probably the leader, having taken delivery of 314 new Douglas and McDonnell Douglas aircraft since 1970. That includes DC10s, MD11s and MD80s, and doesn't count the DC10s they got from PA or NZ, or the numerous MD80s they got from TWA. And that also does not include DC3s!  Smile
 
N867BX
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:19 pm

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 29):
FRIENDLYSKYS........ Hard to believe but Northwest did not buy one DC9 from the factory....not.........one.
safe

Hughes Airwest, North Central, and Southern purchased a bunch from the factory and are part of NW. Its not like NW purchased all of them second hand. Does anyone know if Republic ever took delivery of any 9's (other than the DC-9-80's)
 
ha763
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:15 pm

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 38):
Hawaiian is not too shabby. From their first DC-9 until the 763s a few years back they had a pure McD fleet (DC9, DC10, DC8). Throw in a few L10s and some Dash 7s as well.

You can also throw in the DC-3 (what airline didn't use this aircraft?), DC-6, and I'm pretty sure they had the DC-7. I can't remember if they had the DC-5 and DC-4.
 
EddieDude
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:43 pm

Quoting Fly727 (Reply 34):
Aeromexico has to be among the most loyal customers for MDD/DC.



Quoting Fly727 (Reply 34):
In 1984, celebrating Aeromexico's 50th Anniversary; AM had 50 MDD; from the older DC-8s to the brand-new MD-82s, all of which were acquired direct from the factory.

It is very interesting how the 2 leading Mexican carriers, with some interruptions, have been or plan to be "married" to a specific manufacturer. As Fly727 mentions, there was a time when AM was an all MD-operator (and more or less simultaneously, MX had an all-727 fleet). Now, even though AM still operates a lot of Mad Dogs, it is moving towards an all-Boeing fleet (the goal being to have 73W's for short and medium haul and 772ER's for long haul in the future)... as for MX, they are also moving to an all-Airbus fleet, which will happen once they get rid of their 752's and their only 763ER.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
baw716
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:39 pm

I would have to say it would be a close call between SAS and Alitalia.

Alitalia was the largest MD80 operator in Europe, having some 90 MD80 aircraft in different variants (larger than SK). As far as the DC-9s go, I can't speak to whether SK or AZ had larger DC-9 fleets. They had about the same number of DC-10s. SK did not have MD-11s, AZ had I believe 7 or 8 MD11s all pax and combis, and had quite the DC-8 fleet as well.

SAS was strong with the DC-9-21, 41, 51, 81, 87, 90, DC-8-20, DC-8-50, 60, 61, 62, DC-10-30.

Since I don't have absolute numbers, I would say on sheer number of variants, the nod goes to SAS. When it comes to sheer numbers of aircraft, I think the nod goes to Alitalia.

I don't think anyone else comes close.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
DeeCee3
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:05 pm

Laker Airways (not Laker Airways Bahamas) flew nothing but DCs...

...of course, they weren't around very long but that wasn't the question  Wink
 
jwenting
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:28 pm

KLM...

Straight line from the DC-2 to the MD-11, ordering just about every type Douglas ever built.

Only the MD-80/90 series and the DC-1 never flew in KLM livery.
I wish I were flying
 
Doona
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:37 pm

Wasn't the DC-9-40 also developed especially for SAS? Although it seems it had better success with other airlines than the -21...

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
Gemuser
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:50 pm

KLM seems to be missing from this thread they were a v-e-r-y l-o-n-g time Douglas customer:

DC-2
DC-3
DC-4
*DC-5* only Airline Operator
DC-6
DC-7C/7F
DC-8-30
DC-8-50
DC-8-63
DC-9-10
DC-9-32
DC-10-30
MD-11
(See http://airlines.afriqonline.com/airlines/779.htm )

EVERY DC except the DC-1 and only one of those was produced, it was more like a prototype, the DC-2 was the production model.
From c1936 to 2006! (at least) Thats got to be a defination of loyality!!!


Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
Doona
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:56 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 47):
KLM seems to be missing from this thread they were a v-e-r-y l-o-n-g time Douglas customer:

What the hell is wrong with some people in this forum? Read the goddamn threads!!! Look:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 45):
KLM...

Straight line from the DC-2 to the MD-11, ordering just about every type Douglas ever built.

Only the MD-80/90 series and the DC-1 never flew in KLM livery.

Jeez...

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
vatry
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RE: World's Most Loyal McDonnell Douglas Customer?

Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:00 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 45):
Laker Airways (not Laker Airways Bahamas) flew nothing but DCs...

...of course, they weren't around very long but that wasn't the question

Apart of course from 707's

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