mrniji
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AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:58 am

I am stating a new thread about the heavily discussed topic, under a different thematic angle...

This question was highly discussed in the media in India, and even abroad, as I was told. Today at lunch, we discussed the issue. Let me just add some of the conclusions:

- this issue is going on since about 1998, after XXX committees have reviewed, governments have changed, reevaluated

- in particular, it was not important for the airline anymore whom to order with, but it is important when to order. The sooner, the better

I was rather in favor of Airbus. But after this issue has been pending so long, after xxx reevaluations, inquiries, Question session in Parliaments, I don't care anymore.

The main argument of mine is: A reevaluation, as demanded by Airbus, is against the interest of the airline and the county - that is the conclusion we had in the end. Rather would it be beneficial for India and AI to proceed asap and place the order formally. People who think the possible order with Boeing is unfair, please get over it. It is against the interest of Indian aviation to reevaluate again. Airbus has to accept that AI did not want the A380, and that waiting for the A350 took too long. It is the autonomy and right of india and AI to decide whom to marry here, as they have received two proposals... it may choose the merits in accordance with its preferences, be it politics, economics, technics etc

I know it is a dirty game, but the dirtiest actors were probably A and B, and not India - most such deals are dirty. So, I hope we can agree that it is in the interest of AI to proceed asap - sorry for Airbus, but I, as someone who preferred them, hope that Boeing will get the contract now - I like them too and can vey happily cope with it

It was crazy to see how bad the people who favor Boeing reacted - many have proven to be really bad winners. And it was not nice to see how Airbus supporters blame AI of not taking the right decision.. I think it is in the interest of all that both companies stay strong and create adequate employment (very important nowadays) and cooperate more rather than blackmailing each other

Maybe countries like India (Hindustan Aeronautics) and Brazil (Embraer), as well as giants like China should ally and build a third manufacturer - more competition here can't harm...

Just some thoughts, since the question kept me busy.. but main message:

PLEASE NO REEVALUATION!!! Airbus, get over it, in the interest of Indian Aviation
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
ba777-236
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:17 am

I concur.

I was looking at an old airline book I had the other day, dating from the late 80's or early 90's, and it showed AI's fleet numbers. I was surprisingly shocked to see that (before the recent expansion) AI's fleet had not grown in more then a decade!!

While India is one of the fastest growing countries in the world, it amazes me that Air India is one of the SLOWEST growing airlines of the world.  hissyfit 

Really, they should have placed an order for tons of widebody planes (regardless of A or B) years ago!

Instead they keep the markets so open, so that airlines such as BA and Emirates can have tons of flights into India daily!  banghead 

There, my rant for the day is done...

Carry on.  wave 
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FriendlySkies
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:20 am

I don't think you have to worry about it. Honestly, I think the AI board takes insult to what Airbus is doing, and it sure as hell won't help Airbus' case.
 
N60659
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:26 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
I don't think you have to worry about it. Honestly, I think the AI board takes insult to what Airbus is doing, and it sure as hell won't help Airbus' case.

And with 9W and S2 waiting in the wings to order aircraft, this definitely cannot be helping Airbus' case. Scare tactics can have the effect of warding off sales.

-N60659
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jaysit
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:28 am

All it takes is one Minister on some evaluation Ministry to realize that he can make $$$ by promising Airbus a delay on the AI order.

After all, paying some Minister Rs 1-5 crores is no big deal - its just $ 200,000 - 1 million. That's chump change in comparison to $ 6.5 billion.
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aseem
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded

Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:37 am

AFAIK!! once the announcement has been made, there is simply no going back. The reason being "diplomatic fallout". Both America and Europe have been applying political pressure, and what pleases me the most is the fact that AI succumbed to the best offer in terms of planes being offered.
absolutely no regrets, in spite of $$$s flying all over the place.
rgds
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planemannyc
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:43 am

Mrniji,

Concur 100%. I actually find it insulting that Airbus is going to this length to try to reopen the evaluation process. Why are they not doing the same with Air Canada? To a degree, the Indian Government is to be blamed. It needs to make clear statements saying that it trusts the board to make the right decision. A reevaluation at this point would only hurt Air India and the flying public. Like you, Subin, I thought that the A340 / 737 mix was quite good for AI (but I am no expert) and I am sure that the board took a lot of things into consideration. When the order was announced, I was happy that a decision was made. Airbus should be ashamed of trying to pressure the government into making the board reevaluate. It's an insult to the board, and to the government and particularly to Indian citizens.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc
 
NYC777
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:11 am

Well it looks like that people on A.Net are the only ones that are insulted by Airbus' latest tactics:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1093452.cms

Even if Airbus is usccessful in getting AI to reopen the competition I can totally see AI going again with Boeing not only because it's the best deal but to also spite Airbus. I think Airbus is effectively locking itself out of the Ai/IA market if it persists in this tactic.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
karan69
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:19 am

For heavensake just place the order asap---Boeing/Airbus/Embraber--i really dont care, all i want is a new look to AIs rising image.

IMHO--the Paris Airshow would be a perfect place to confirm their decision
 
NYC777
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 8):
IMHO--the Paris Airshow would be a perfect place to confirm their decision

I hope that they can firm the order at Paris but with Airbus' latest move along with the GOI usual snail like pace to approve the purchase, I'm not optimistic about that happening. Even if Airbus' appeal is denied and the GOi fast-track the approval process (somepeople here on the forum said that this would happen) then I can see the final contact being signed by September. That's fast for India!
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ba777-236
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:50 am

Well, I lied about my rant being over.. I have one more thing to say.

Being an airline controlled/owned by India's government, why is it that they don't care about AI's image?

Or is getting bribes and/or pay-offs more important then the National Carrer's well being?  no 
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aseem
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:01 am

Quoting BA777-236 (Reply 10):
Being an airline controlled/owned by India's government, why is it that they don't care about AI's image?

well!! you've already answered yourself. Because they are govt owned. Big grin
rgds
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sammyk
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:03 am

Quoting BA777-236 (Reply 10):
Being an airline controlled/owned by India's government, why is it that they don't care about AI's image?

Yep, being the only game in town for so long they didn't have to care about theie image.

Bribes are definitely more important. Gotta get them while they can, who knows when they'll be run out of office.
 
airish
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:47 am

Looks like Air India might file a suit against airbus.

http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=89596
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FriendlySkies
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:49 am

Haha...that would be sweet. Big grin

Maybe it would finally shut them up.
 
a340roy
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:52 am

Just HAD to say this!!!

AI is a Govt.airline....and the govt want to keep it that way....its the hen laying golden eggs. They love demanding things from AI. AI is the only airline in India having BIG acfts...who else can come in and fly the ministers around. Which airline in the world spares 2 B747-400's for A VIP flight??? NO ONE!!!!!

I agree with most of you, i dont care whom it goes to, as long as the acfts fly safely, it really doesnt matter what make it is. But sadly, there is money to be made in the whole acquisition, there is money to be made on its insurance (did you know that AI havent been able to find a insurer for themselves, therefore extending their current already expired insurance by a month....for the last 4 months!!) there is money to be made on spares, there is money to be made the money u see an AI aircraft!!!! Thats why AI is so "precioussssss" for the GOI! And....AI dont have the money....who pays....simple, TAX-PAYERZ!!!!

Isn't it a fool-proof way to make money, Yea GOI!!! Keep going!!! no 

g'nite boys!
AR-FRA
 
miamix707
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:28 am

Quoting Mrniji (Thread starter):
I was rather in favor of Airbus. But after this issue has been pending so long, after xxx reevaluations, inquiries, Question session in Parliaments, I don't care anymore.

Apparently you cared enough to post about 4 threads regarding your displeasure for the 777s which, beyond my comprehension got like 500 replies each. I swear I only read the first when it only had about 50 replies.. that was enough for me.

Quoting Mrniji (Thread starter):
I know it is a dirty game, but the dirtiest actors were probably A and B, and not India - most such deals are dirty

Be honest, the "dirtiest actors" are Boeing and the US govt, etc. Never India, and rarely Airbus  sarcastic 

Quoting Mrniji (Thread starter):
And it was not nice to see how Airbus supporters blame AI of not taking the right decision

Looks like MrNiji just needs to accept AI didn't want to go with his beloved Airbus.. and move on

 Wink
 
mrniji
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting BA777-236 (Reply 10):
Being an airline controlled/owned by India's government, why is it that they don't care about AI's image?



Quoting A340roy (Reply 15):
AI is so "precioussssss" for the GOI!

As you already set yourself, BA777 (and others, too)! There was a gr8 post by someone who flew AI first (paid) and set next to a lady of an AI employee who complained that people like him make it more difficult for her to get her free tickets as to her needs... AI needs to be privatized now and be taken away from the GOI, who uses the taxpayers money for establishing an airline for itself, and not for the people..

The GOI does not care about its image but about how many benefits they get for themselves and their family members..

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 16):
Apparently you cared enough to post about 4 threads regarding your displeasure for the 777s which, beyond my comprehension got like 500 replies each.

I have no idea about what you have been smoking (probably some self-grown wheat which was not properly grown) - but please show me the posts you referred to.. First, I said that I am extremely happy with the selection, but was pissed about (a) how B people reacted in the: "Look, we are Americans and sooo much better than you, (b) about A supporters demanding for reevaluation... etc.. read the thread-opener carefully, that might revoke some of your wrong claims you have made - you will see that I am extremely happy with the decision - the selective quotes do not display my full opinion... even better, the last quote you use, does just say the opposite and shows that you have no idea how to read properly:

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 16):
Quoting Mrniji (Thread starter):
And it was not nice to see how Airbus supporters blame AI of not taking the right decision

Looks like MrNiji just needs to accept AI didn't want to go with his beloved Airbus.. and move on

Logical thinking is nothing you have subscribed to, right?  Smile
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
777ER
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:11 pm

Quoting N60659 (Reply 3):
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
I don't think you have to worry about it. Honestly, I think the AI board takes insult to what Airbus is doing, and it sure as hell won't help Airbus' case.

And with 9W and S2 waiting in the wings to order aircraft, this definitely cannot be helping Airbus' case. Scare tactics can have the effect of warding off sales.

And threatening IA about giving their delivery slots to other waiting airlines....yea that a real way of doing business
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monteycarlos
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:32 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Thread starter):
PLEASE NO REEVALUATION!!! Airbus, get over it, in the interest of Indian Aviation

Don't think for a minute that Airbus now cares about the interest of AI or Indian aviation and neither does Boeing, they care about their own bottom line. Airbus lost an order and AI are unlikely to ever place an Airbus order again. That is why Airbus is making sure that the "dirty" deals as you refer to are made public (if they are dirty and IMO they probably aren't) so that airlines realise that whatever happened was wrong.

To be honest I am pretty sick of the whole topic. The amount of posts on it now have made it into a massive issue (which it probably is) but comments like "Airbus need to get over it," are being said without thought. Would anyone here say the same thing if the money was going to their own company? Would AI say it if they were in Airbus' shoes? I can bet you that they would because they are a competitive business there to make money. And when you lose out on a big contract without your product even being fully considered (as was reported) then you want to know why!

I think we all need to take the blinders off and realise there is more at stake then just national pride, be it Indian, French, American, German, British or whatever! With rumours such as under the table money deals and unfair product consideration, who are we to say who should "get over it"?
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:14 pm

Let them reevaluate the order - Air India decided on a different ground that the official requriements were (delivery dates, aircraft size).
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Leskova
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:44 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):
And threatening IA about giving their delivery slots to other waiting airlines....yea that a real way of doing business

If you actually took the time to find out what you're talking about, you wouldn't post non-sensical things such as that comment...  Yeah sure

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 16):
Apparently you cared enough to post about 4 threads regarding your displeasure for the 777s which, beyond my comprehension got like 500 replies each.

While I, too, have no idea what you're talking about... could it be that you've misinterpreted these points...
Indianguy = Roy
Mrniji = Subin
Subin != Roy ("!=" as in "not equal")

Aside from that, and from knowing Subin, I can also state that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about while referring to him.

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 19):
Don't think for a minute that Airbus now cares about the interest of AI or Indian aviation and neither does Boeing, they care about their own bottom line.

That's what it comes down to - nothing more, nothing less.


In summation - while I, too, would have preferred this order to go the other way, I, too, think that (a) it was not a smart move by Airbus to call for this re-evaluation in such a public way, because there are always better ways to do so and (b) I, too, think that it's time to move on.

AI has, for the second time, selected the planes they want to replace their fleet with - first it was A340s, now they've decided on B777/B787s... I seriously doubt that they're going to do yet another 180° turn.

Let AI move on and focus on winning the next competition.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:14 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Thread starter):
Maybe countries like India (Hindustan Aeronautics) and Brazil (Embraer), as well as giants like China should ally and build a third manufacturer - more competition here can't harm...

There was a plan to Build a Short-Medium Commercial Aircraft involving India,Russia,China.
I wonder where that thought went  Smile

Its Important to get the Aircraft in as soon as possible & not Delay typically of GOI style.
Most Indians want to see Indian Aviation Take off.Personally I cant wait to work on the New Birds,given the opportunity  bigthumbsup 
regds
MEL
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dynkrisolo
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded

Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:57 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 20):
Let them reevaluate the order - Air India decided on a different ground that the official requriements were (delivery dates, aircraft size).

To sastisfy the date requirement, the 332 would be the choice. But with the 350, the 332 will soon become obsolete. Why do you think Air India should order a soon-to-be obsolete plane? Then the choice would be between the 787 and 350. Tell me which one will be available sooner? That is, which one will satisfy the date requirement better? Sizewise, the 787 met the conditions specified by Air India.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 21):
AI has, for the second time, selected the planes they want to replace their fleet with - first it was A340s, now they've decided on B777/B787s... I seriously doubt that they're going to do yet another 180� turn.

You forgot that the technical committee did originally select the 777 not the 340, but the selection was overturned.
 
B707Stu
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting Airish (Reply 13):
Looks like Air India might file a suit against airbus.

http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_f...89596

Looks like Airbus may have stepped over the line and lost AI for many years to come as a result.
 
ba777-236
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 1:00 am

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 19):
but comments like "Airbus need to get over it," are being said without thought. Would anyone here say the same thing if the money was going to their own company?

I don't think they are "without thought".

For at least the last two years, Boeing has been busy LOOSING quite a few major deals to Airbus, and frankly I have never heard them whining or screaming like Airbus is for this one deal.

I like Airbus and Boeing equally, but in this case it looks as if Airbus is being the spoiled brat here.
I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
 
jacobin777
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 1:09 am

Interesting to note that a country with the largest or 2nd largest population in the world, and one of the fastest growing aviation markets in the world (as mentioned by both Airbus and Boeing) doesn't want to buy The Leviathan........seems with their recent Boeing order, they believe the "point-to-point" strategy is the way to go...
"Up the Irons!"
 
FLVILLA
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 1:16 am

Has anyone thought as to why Airbus is going through all of this re-evaluation and legal aspects for this order if there wasn't something already 'odd' about it in the first place ??

It's never happened before from Airbus so why all of this kerfuffle if they didn't think there was some wrong-doing somewhere.
I hope in life i can work to live, not live to work
 
Aither
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 26):
they believe the "point-to-point" strategy is the way to go..

Let them do the point to point then and abandon the core routes to foreign carriers. We will see the result...
Never trust the obvious
 
Aither
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 1:22 am

FLVILLA,

That's because of the way AI changed their mind and took the quick decision.
I think Airbus is dead for one reason : Europe is weak, USA is strong. Point.
Never trust the obvious
 
Leskova
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 1:50 am

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 23):
You forgot that the technical committee did originally select the 777 not the 340, but the selection was overturned.

No, I didn't forget that - but you seem to have forgotten the fact that the technical committee is not the only one deciding on these deals - granted, they're important, but, again, it was only one part of the decision.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
miamix707
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 2:28 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 17):
I have no idea about what you have been smoking (probably some self-grown wheat which was not properly grown) - but please show me the posts you referred to.. First, I said that I am extremely happy with the selection

Sorry but I'm not really into weed (and wheat doesn't grow well in my area  Smile I take it you do smoke good quality home-grown herbs huh? I guess I should be jealous. If you want to see the threads you started yourself, use the search feature? So now you are extremely happy with the selection; good! Although in every post you still state you wish Airbus had gotten the order.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 21):
Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 16):
Apparently you cared enough to post about 4 threads regarding your displeasure for the 777s which, beyond my comprehension got like 500 replies each.

While I, too, have no idea what you're talking about... could it be that you've misinterpreted these points...
Indianguy = Roy
Mrniji = Subin
Subin != Roy ("!=" as in "not equal")

There was a thread titled something like "Thread for the third AI 777!!!" no too long ago.. On the first thread it was obvious some were mad because it was supposedly an old? ex UA 777 and not a new A340 etc etc. Don't know why I even bother, but.. thanks for the sarcasm I guess, good to know you know everyone's names  Smile but was I even talking to you Frank? no.. Big grin

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 17):
even better, the last quote you use, does just say the opposite and shows that you have no idea how to read properly:

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 16):
Quoting Mrniji (Thread starter):
And it was not nice to see how Airbus supporters blame AI of not taking the right decision

I might not be able to read properly but seeing the thoughts of the perennial crybabies is one of my special talents. As if your "subliminal" statement wasn't a dead giveaway  Silly "the right decision" Once again implying Airbus SHOULD have gotten the order as you do in every post. The fact I interpret that as such, I'd say is actually very logical.


MrNiji = Subin.. In a way I understand why you're so obsessed when your airline doesn't get planes from your favorite manufacturer; that's the norm here on a.net, but still get over it..


cheers,
 Smile
 
Leskova
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 31):
but was I even talking to you Frank? no..

Since when has that ever stopped anyone on this forum from making a comment? And, even worse: here I go again...  Wink

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 31):
On the first thread it was obvious some were mad because it was supposedly an old? ex UA 777 and not a new A340 etc etc

Ahh... you must be referring to the term "rustbucket" - but guess what: that was being used in an ironic way, because a former, now perma-banned, user coined that term and used it whenever he went on his moronic anti-B777 rants.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 31):
Quoting Mrniji (Thread starter):
And it was not nice to see how Airbus supporters blame AI of not taking the right decision

I might not be able to read properly but seeing the thoughts of the perennial crybabies is one of my special talents. As if your "subliminal" statement wasn't a dead giveaway "the right decision" Once again implying Airbus SHOULD have gotten the order as you do in every post.

He, of course, could not at that point be pointing out the view of Airbus supporters that the "right decision" would have been ordering Airbusses, right? He could only be expressing his own view...  Yeah sure ... which really goes a long way to explain why he actually started a thread calling for the calls for a reevaluation to cease...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 30):
No, I didn't forget that - but you seem to have forgotten the fact that the technical committee is not the only one deciding on these deals - granted, they're important, but, again, it was only one part of the decision

Frank, frankly, if you want to be anal about it, I can, too. The fact is the 340 deal didn't get the final approval. So, if you made a reference of a non-final decision while deliberately ignoring the one prior to that non-final decsion, why can't I point you out? I certainly didn't forget that the technical committee was only a part of the decision process!
 
aseem
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 9:36 am

guys!!
putting all your curiosity to rest. This Boeing deal is going to be inked sooner than expected. The Chairman of GE Capital Aviation Services (GECAS) will be here to sign the lease for Boeing deal. It is expected to be an operating lease for a duration anywhere between 3-12 yrs. Here is the link from The Economic Times.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1094216.cms
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 3:15 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 31):
There was a thread titled something like "Thread for the third AI 777!!!" no too long ago..

Oh yes! Frank gave you the appropriate response.. we tend to call them 'rustbuckets' for ironical reasons! You should continue your targeted research, and you might understand. As a matter of fact, I was the amongst first ones to applaud the leasing of these r'ustbckets', as you might find out in the databasa (May I continue using this word? Or has God finally killed irony?  Wink )

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 31):
So now you are extremely happy with the selection; good! Although in every post you still state you wish Airbus had gotten the order.

Every post? You are very selective - how about you cite some posts.. but don't be selective, cite the other side, too..

As you might read in the first post here, I don't really care anymore as long as the order proceeds - eveything said theire.. moreover, since you seem to have 'nuff time on your hands.. get out the threadd a couple of weeks ago where the decision of AI 'leaked' - you might find posts of mine supporting the current deal

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 31):
Once again implying Airbus SHOULD have gotten the order as you do in every post.

See above.. every post... - you might be confused: there is a parallel order considered, that if IC (Indian Airlines) with Airbus.. here, I am 100 % pro-Airbus, you are right.. but please see the difference between AI and IC

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 31):
MrNiji = Subin.. In a way I understand why you're so obsessed when your airline doesn't get planes from your favorite manufacturer; that's the norm here on a.net, but still get over it..

You might understand, but I do not.. please emphasize

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 31):
Sorry but I'm not really into weed

Maybe you should try it.. that might chillax you a little  Wink - it might help you to write more sense than you do here

Anyways, keep on going.. I am not feeling offended but rather amused, as so you help many a.net users to confirm many stereotypes of a certain group of people.. and is these attemps of bashing help you to become horny, I am happy I could be of assistance  Wink

Quoting Aseem (Reply 34):
putting all your curiosity to rest. This Boeing deal is going to be inked sooner than expected.

Gr8! Hope it goes along smooth..
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
monteycarlos
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Sun May 01, 2005 5:11 pm

Quoting Ba777-236 (Reply 25):
I like Airbus and Boeing equally, but in this case it looks as if Airbus is being the spoiled brat here.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with that, in this specific case. But I am also open to the fact that perhaps the deal was not done completely within the legal requirements set down or perhaps there is another reason behind the appeal. I'm not to know, I am only speculating.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Mon May 02, 2005 4:52 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 35):
Anyways, keep on going.. I am not feeling offended but rather amused, as so you help many a.net users to confirm many stereotypes of a certain group of people.. and is these attemps of bashing help you to become horny, I am happy I could be of assistance

You sound like a little kid, "Mr" Niji. but hey at least you seem to have the perfect nanny in Leskova who somehow foolishly offers to give excuses for your inmaturity Big grin

So when people tell you the truth you dismiss it by telling them they're high or they don't know what common sense is.. very nice. I'm not at all offended by your kiddy comments either, I would get offended if you were someone important or admirable, etc.. get my point?  Wink

Unluckily for you, I also remember your whining on a thread about speculations Lybia was going to order planes from the US. So not only are you a blind Airbus fannatic, (which is great), but also a jealous anti-American (I feel sorry for you). But hey whatever floats your boat. Now you totally expose yourself with that stereotypes comment. I'd like to stereotype too and say you're a sad example of the ignorant and supertitious individuals typical of the third world.. or better yet the store clerk of "The Simpsons" but that wouldn't be too nice and then I too would look like an idiot.. Definitely not fair to the other users who sport your flag on their profiles, as they usually know what they're posting. Maybe you're not even Indian.. but hey enough of this.

 Wink


By the way, I too am surprised Air India didn't order the A380.. Not that maybe they couldn't fill it, but could it be an indication they're making the best decisions when it's time to order?
 
Udo
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded

Mon May 02, 2005 5:14 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
You sound like a little kid, "Mr" Niji.

Hmmm, not so to me...  scratchchin 

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
at least you seem to have the perfect nanny in Leskova who somehow foolishly offers to give excuses for your inmaturity

It seems you have no idea who you are talking about - how about checking their several thousands of posts before making a judgement? I'd trust their competence any day.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
I'm not at all offended by your kiddy comments either, I would get offended if you were someone important or admirable, etc

Actually, Mrniji DOES have more knowledge about Indian aviation than most other users have and will ever have - so he IS very important to this forum.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
Unluckily for you, I also remember your whining on a thread about speculations Lybia

Which country is that?

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
So not only are you a blind Airbus fannatic

Oh my god...zero points, next question...  rotfl 

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
but also a jealous anti-American

Never ever...  covereyes 

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
I'd like to stereotype too and say you're a sad example of the ignorant and supertitious individuals typical of the third world.

What's typical for the "third world" in your opinion? Not only zero points but also red card to speak in soccer terms...  talktothehand 

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
Maybe you're not even Indian.. but hey enough of this.

Wrong again...  no 



Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Mon May 02, 2005 5:52 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
You sound like a little kid, "Mr" Niji. but hey at least you seem to have the perfect nanny in Leskova who somehow foolishly offers to give excuses for your inmaturity

And you sound like someone whose mummy was so pissed of by that she didn't care about him - hence no wonder you are despartely seeking every bit of attention in the anonymous cyber space, as probably no one in real lifes takes you serious 

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
I would get offended if you were someone important or admirable, etc.. get my point?

No, not really.. are you referring to yourself? See above - "Nani Leskova", as you call him, at least knows me in person. Probably no one wants to back you here, as the persons who know you must support my opinions, and the persons who do not know you think that the stuff you rwite originates from a person who wants to play "Mr. I am so important, listen to me!"

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
but also a jealous anti-American

fact is: I am America citizen and have spent enough time in the states (and have encountered many dumb people as you are) - being critical with the US is not Anti-American. Working towards changes is better than people like you chanting: "The US is the center of the Universe, we are the biggest world power, we rule!!

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
I too would look like an idiot

dun worry, you already look like a very big one...

Please keep on going, it is a great piece of amusement to witness how you prove the public what big idiot you are..   - thus far, you have not provided any evidence and refuse to read the thread starting post..  - your statements like "You're probably not even Indian" are a gr8 proof for this, as you base your posts on assumptions and not on facts

[Edited 2005-05-02 10:57:22]

[Edited 2005-05-02 11:14:02]
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Mon May 02, 2005 6:39 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 37):
You sound like a little kid, "Mr" Niji. but hey at least you seem to have the perfect nanny in Leskova who somehow foolishly offers to give excuses for your inmaturity

You know, I actually had a rather long reply to all of your inane comments prepared, but I decided on skipping everything in your most recent post that made either no sense, absolutely no sense or was just so completely moronic that it simply didn't merit an answer...

So, here's my reply to the interesting, valid and truthful points you made...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Mon May 02, 2005 7:00 pm

There was an Interview with PP with NDTVs Shrinivasan Jain on Mumbai Domestic Tarmec.
When is that show.
PP talks about the deal,partially.  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
AirIndiaOne
Posts: 139
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Tue May 03, 2005 7:29 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 41):
When is that show.

I'll look out for this show...should be telecasted on NDTV profit or NDTV soon!
"You don't have to be crazy to be in aviation, but it helps", JRD Tata
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Tue May 03, 2005 8:02 pm

Its to be Telecast on NDTV 24x7 on Friday night 2230 hrs.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
SM777
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:47 pm

RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Tue May 03, 2005 8:24 pm

Well, lots of arguments !

Lets not forget the following :

1. The order to Boeing has been approved by the AI board.
2. If I am not wrong, the next step is the CCEA (Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs)
3. After CCEA clearance it would need a final nod from the Cabinet and the PM.
4. All of the above could take months, or even years. So I wouldn't be that optimistic, given the way the IA Airbus order has been in the news for the past so many months (or years ?)

No doubt :

1. The choice of AI finally makes sense. A combo of 777-200LRs / 300ERs and 787s rather than the A340-300 (outdated in today's environment) and 737-800 combo which was suggested in the last review some months ago.
2. Probably, AI's experience with the leased 777s swung the deal in Boeing's favour.
3. Maybe, just maybe, if the A380 becomes the 747 of the 21st Century (which it just might in a few years), Airbus can have an AI order for this aircraft in a few years time. Crying foul and asking for reviews are children's pranks, not expected of a multi-billion dollar corporation.

That's my take on this whole episode. However I still feel that privatizing AI is the only way forward and this should be done with double the speed, though its not going to be easy with the Left parties and the unions.......but unless this happens, India will not see a 'national' carrier of world-class standing for many more years since the 9Ws and S2s of India, however ambitious their plans may be, will not be allowed to fly on several key routes and therefore will have limited international ops.

Lets now wait and see when the AI order actually becomes a reality !

Cheers
SM777
 
shawnnyc
Posts: 234
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Wed May 04, 2005 1:38 am

I think the Airbus is making such a fuss because the AI order might make some airlines think twice that the point to point strategy is dead. Thus A is trying to totally discredit AI's choice (they know the decision won't be turned around). Plus what AI does will affect the other Indian carriers' aircraft decisions and could also influence regional competitors like EK.

That being said I think AI's order makes sense both economically and politically (it is after all government owned):
1) As other posts on this board have shown, there is too much pressure on AI to serve cities outside BOM and DEL. So initially small aircraft are needed over the A380.
2) The US is AI's main market and nonstop flights will give AI an edge over carriers from Europe and the Middle East. Plus nonstop flights are what the market wants and will help India's image and investment in the eyes of the American business community.
3) Politically, America is just too important for India right now. A huge order to an American company should help show that India's growth will help American business (even though call centers might be hurt). Quite honestly this order is very much proof of that as aviation is partly booming as a direct result of outsourcing.
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Wed May 04, 2005 10:10 am

guys!!
it seems there are going to be some issues around purchase of aircraft for AI and IC. Some of the parliamentarians from the ruling coalitions have joined ranks with opposition, and claimed to have smelled something fishy. Same old story being repeated.  banghead 
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1347363,0008.htm
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Wed May 04, 2005 1:28 pm

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 45):
Plus nonstop flights are what the market wants and will help India's image and investment in the eyes of the American business community.

Maybe, but price has to be competitive.. many peoplke would rather choose a cheap 2-stop than an expansive nonstop.. but AIs prices have always been reasonable, so no worries here


Regarding Aseems post: I would not worry, as there is no necessity for a parlamentary vote. Moreover, the Cong(I) majority is big enough (OK, minority government, but the communists don't seem to object, as their demand with the CCU-LHR nonstop has to be fulfilled). No threat for the govt.. the As the government under Manmohan will decide, it looks rather like hot air that can be cooled with any ac (not aircraft, but aircondition, though it could mean aircraft, too Big grin )
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Wed May 04, 2005 6:46 pm

Whats the status on the CVC.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
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RE: AI Order: Please No Reevaluation, As Demanded By A

Wed May 04, 2005 6:54 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 48):
Whats the status on the CVC.

The best would be if Boeing bribed them to speed-up the process - this is in the interest of India!  



[For those who do not know what CVC is: The Corruption and Vigilance Commission]

[Edited 2005-05-04 11:55:43]
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)

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