davied
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:40 am

British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:24 am

I am a huge fan of British Airways and I was wondering why British Airways don't offer flights either from London Heathrow or Gatwick to Malaysia? Can anybody please tell me why these routes for BA don't exist?
Thanks David  Sad
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1468
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:34 am

I think this has been discussed before on the forum but basically MAS have the market stitched up!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:38 am

BA dropped KUL at the advent of FF&S claiming that the yield wasn't there.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
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RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:42 am

Do you mean FS&S - Future Size and Shape?
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
B742
Posts: 3566
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:48 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:22 am

Maybe we could see BA return to KLIA in the future!

What other long routes haul routes have BA also dropped?

Rob!
 
karan69
Posts: 2703
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RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:22 am

I am not sure exactly when , but i do know they used to serve it via BOM as my father had once flown them in the early or mid 90s on the BOM-KUL-BOM route on their B742
 
AA B777-200
Posts: 404
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RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:16 pm

It has always amazed me, espcially when you learn that MH flies twice daily nonstops!
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:53 pm

BA last served KUL five times weekly with B772 before closing the route because of what was called the lack of yields. Before the B772, KUL was served by B744 with a tag on to Jakarta (up to 6 weekly flights) and for a short period of time with a tag on to SYD thrice weekly.

BA has closed down quite a couple of routes in Asia in the last ten years, including Osaka, Nagoya, Seoul, Manila, Taipei, Kuala Lumpur, Jakarta and Colombo.

I don't believe we'll see BA back in Kuala Lumpur any time soon. The airline seems to be concentrating on reiforcing their core markets, and it is likely that Singapore and Hongkong will be strengthened further rather than resources being spread out of various (new or reopened) stations.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1468
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:05 pm

Just to say, I thought MAs flew to London three times a day? (unless the evening arrival night stops).
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3117
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:25 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
The airline seems to be concentrating on reiforcing their core markets, and it is likely that Singapore and Hongkong will be strengthened further rather than resources being spread out of various (new or reopened) stations.

Also remembering that all the services through Singapore are jointly done with Qantas giving BA a much better control over yields, scheduling and pricing. I doubt you'd see BA return to KL without being able to fly on to Australia under the JSA.

Also BA dont really have any LHR slots that they could allocate to the service.
 
AlanUK
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:56 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:40 pm

The main problem is the fact that MAS is highly and unfairly subsidized on the route. BA had to drop the route when MAS came up with silly fares that were simply impossible to compete against.

That also explains why MAS have so much frequency between KUL and LHR/MAN, as well as many other European cities. As usual, it's very easy to run an airline business with a government behind... (SQ/EK...)

Safe flying.
 
United Airline
Posts: 8782
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:53 pm

I suppose they will be back again one day

What about TPE, MNL and AKL?
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:23 pm

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 9):
Also BA dont really have any LHR slots that they could allocate to the service.

Given the large number of slots that BA is currently controling, I doubt there would be any problem in reallocating a slot used for domestic or European operations to accomodate additional longhaul traffic.
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2628
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:25 pm

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 8):
Just to say, I thought MAs flew to London three times a day? (unless the evening arrival night stops).

KUL-LHR is 18 pw, with 4 pw KUL-MAN.

*T*TF*S 10:30a KUL 4:35p MAN 2 MH 12 Non-stop 744 13:05


*TW**SS 9:00a KUL 3:10p LHR 3 MH 8 Non-stop 744 13:10

MTWTFSS 12:00p KUL 6:10p LHR 3 MH 4 Non-stop 744 13:10 Effective Mar 27
MTWTFSS 11:40p KUL 5:50a+1 LHR 3 MH 2 Non-stop 744 13:10 Effective Mar 26

The MH8 return flight MH 7, stops in Penang 2pw and Langkawi 2pw on the return flight from LHR....
 
AIR MALTA
Posts: 1737
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:45 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:55 pm

And what about Seoul and Osaka... Are the yields so bad on those routes?
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8103
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:03 pm

Seoul was only a tag-on to Tokyo. I'm surprised about the other Japanese routes though, I remember it was at the height of a recession that BA canned Osaka and Nagoya but I always expected them to be reinstated, certainly Osaka.

Re KL: do Qantas fly there? I remember they dropped the route for a while. Odd that such a major city could be without service from BA or QF, QF expecially cos it's so close to Oz. The Malaysian and British gov'ts had a massive falling out over something or other which affected traffic for BA. Most of MH's traffic on the route connects on to Australia or somewhere.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
AIR MALTA
Posts: 1737
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:45 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:57 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 15):
Seoul was only a tag-on to Tokyo.

Seould has had its own dedicated service but it was wxed. BA used to serve Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya and Fukuoka... Those were days!
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2628
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:59 pm

QF and BA continue to focus on SIN as their SE Asian hub. KUL does not offer the same level of cargo and business traffic as SIN does.

Given KUL's proximity to SIN, I do not think they will re-enter the market anytime soon.

Also, as stated earlier, MH has a VERY agreesive pricing policy which would scare QF/BA. Furthermore, MH now has a very competitive product, especially in J/F.
 
rtfm
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:35 pm

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sun May 01, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 15):
Seoul was only a tag-on to Tokyo.

It may have been at one time, but when it was dropped it was a stand-alone destination.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 15):
Re KL: do Qantas fly there? I remember they dropped the route for a while.

No they don't; part of the reason a lot of carriers stopped flying to KUL was the very high airport charges when the new airport opened. That and the falling yields at the time meant that KUL became uneconomical to operate, especially when SIN was a better mini-hub for BA/QF.
 
GuyBetsy1
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:00 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sun May 01, 2005 1:08 am

Actually KUL has one of the regions lowest airport charges.. even when the new airport opened.

QF had already stopped flying to KUL before the new airport opened. They used to do something like SYD-SIN-KUL and v.v. with full traffic rights between SIN and KUL too!

BA did LHR-KUL-CGK v.v. BA banks heavily on the front end of the aircraft which out of Malaysia is weak.. but the back is full. But this doesn't matter to BA who would rather can the flights than fly that way.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2358
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sun May 01, 2005 2:10 am

BA recently dropped CCS/BOG from their route network as well!

I wonder what destination they are going to scrap next!

TheNoFlyZone

[Edited 2005-04-30 19:11:34]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1779
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Sun May 01, 2005 11:05 pm

Osaka, Fukuoka, Nagoya, Seoul, Taipei, Manila, Kuala Lumpur, Colombo, Perth, Brisbane, Auckland, Karachi, Jeddah, Dhahran, Riyadh, Gaborone, Durban, Lilongwe, Seychelles, Abidjan, Santiago de Chile, Bogota, Caracas, Montego Bay, San Juan, San Jose (Costa Rica), Havana, Charlotte, Pittsburg and San Diego among others have all been ditched from the BA longhaul network in the past ten years.

But Denver, Phoenix, Abuja and Luanda have all been added, Melbourne was reinstated, while Shanghai comes online in June, followed by Bangalore in October.

As has been mentioned already, BA has upped capacity on many core routes and prefers to use its alliance partners more for flights that had low frequency or were tag ons, e.g. AA at MIA for South and Central America, plus the Caribbean, IB at MAD for the same, CX at HKG for Northeast Asia and QF at SIN for Australia. BA also has its franchise carriers - Comair provide a netwrork of flights for BA from JNB, while BMED operate smaller niche longhaul routes for BA from LHR.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
chinaeastern
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:09 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Mon May 02, 2005 4:21 pm

any possibility for BA to extend PVG to AKL?
 
rtfm
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:35 pm

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Mon May 02, 2005 5:19 pm

Quoting Chinaeastern (Reply 22):
any possibility for BA to extend PVG to AKL?

I would have thought that extrememly unlikely. I don't think that BA would have traffic rights between China and NZ so you would either have to take LHR-PVG seats away or you would end up with a pretty empty flight between PVG & AKL (similar issue that VS have with their LHR-HKG-SYD flight at the moment - and they do have HKG-Oz traffic rights).

With BA-QF JSA and oneworld, there are plenty of other options from LHR-AKL; either over LAX or via the SIN-SYD Kangaroo routes.
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Mon May 02, 2005 5:34 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
BA last served KUL five times weekly with B772 before closing the route because of what was called the lack of yields.

BA was actually operating 6x week 777 into KUL before they planned to revert to the 744 as GuyBetsy1 also mentioned BA was weak in the front end of the plane but cargo and economy loads were healthier than ever. The 777 'Y' cabin was too small for KUL and BA was in fact planning to revert to flying the 744 before the plug was pulled.

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 10):
The main problem is the fact that MAS is highly and unfairly subsidized on the route. BA had to drop the route when MAS came up with silly fares that were simply impossible to compete against.

That also explains why MAS have so much frequency between KUL and LHR/MAN, as well as many other European cities. As usual, it's very easy to run an airline business with a government behind..

British Airways fares were often the cheaper option to Kuala Lumpur and MAS actually usually charged more as their flights were always full to the brim. MAS fares have declined SINCE BA's withdrawal in order to compete with the likes of SQ, EK, CX, QR, etc. MAS fares have also dropped since as they now have the available capacity to charge lower fares for their cheapest seats with the monopoly it has on the route. MAS obtained these additional rights into Heathrow AS A RESULT of BA's withdrawal as the UK CAA awarded them to MAS, a few months after BA surrended them.

Also note that fares to KUL continue to cost more than flights to SIN today (even BA/QF fares LHR-SIN).


Speaking to friends and family who work at Waterside. BA was due to complete a new round of talks with the CAA and DCA(Malaysia) as it was keen to return to KUL by Winter 2005. These talks were scheduled for early this year but have heard nothing since.

I think BA has realised that perhaps withdrawing from KUL was perhaps a rather short-sighted move since it paved a 'golden' route for one of its main rivals in the SE Asian/Australian region. As many would say - you keep your friends close but your enemies closer. If BA/QF still operated to KUL - you probably wouldn't have seen MAS expanding so much in both the UK/Australia over the past few years - especially since LHR/Oz are MAS' cashcow longhaul routes.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6814
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Mon May 02, 2005 7:21 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 4):
What other long routes haul routes have BA also dropped?

AKL being one, others that spring to mins are MNL and PER
 
Ex_SQer
Posts: 1351
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:43 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Tue May 03, 2005 2:58 pm

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 10):
As usual, it's very easy to run an airline business with a government behind... (SQ/EK...)

The Singapore government does not subsidize SQ's operations, and neither does it inject cash into the carrier.

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 19):
QF had already stopped flying to KUL before the new airport opened. They used to do something like SYD-SIN-KUL and v.v. with full traffic rights between SIN and KUL too!

If my memory is correct, what was more interesting about QF's former ops into KUL was paxs bound for points beyond SYD were not channelled thru SYD, but thru SIN. I seem to recall that the SYD-KUL-SIN flight arrived around 6pm and the paxs from KUL could connect to PER, BNE, ADL, etc at SIN. Paxs bound to/from LHR could also connect at SIN, but with a longer wait.
 
cx346
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:51 pm

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Tue May 03, 2005 6:43 pm

lets not forget oneworld. BA limits CX's options in Europe, and vice versa, for the sake of better yields and profits on the network overall. why do you think every press release from CX mentions the " strengthening of the Hong Kong hub "  Wink
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: British Airways To Malaysia

Tue May 03, 2005 10:08 pm

but BA, QF and CX hardly cooperate on the OneWorld alliance in Asia - which is a shame. BA operated a 'dog-leg' code-share with CX flying LHR-HKG-KUL for some time but this was hugely unpopular to MAS' (then) twice daily nonstop service.

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