ramerinianair
Posts: 1452
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:03 am

CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Sun May 01, 2005 9:51 am

I see in the timetable that they are sending a 777 over to SDQ from June 9th-15th. I am wondering why they are doing this, is it a charter? All I hear ia how they are strapped for widebody A/C and here they are sending one on the low yeild SDQ route.
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Sun May 01, 2005 9:52 am

Quoting RamerinianAir (Thread starter):
All I hear ia how they are strapped for widebody A/C and here they are sending one on the low yeild SDQ route.

Low-yield route to Santo Domingo? LOL.

Santo Domingo is an airline's perfect market. Excellent yields, medium-haul, huge cargo demand.

[Edited 2005-05-01 02:53:34]
a.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Sun May 01, 2005 10:34 am

many times we cant take freight with a 762/4....especially the 764....with the 777 we can typically take a full load.
 
supa7E7
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:05 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Sun May 01, 2005 10:00 pm

It's not like SDQ is super high yield. JetBlue flies there, after all. Recently there has been a lot of new capacity thrown at SDQ (US' FLL-SDQ daily for example) so I would imagine yields have fallen from their previous levels.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
LUV4JFK
Posts: 443
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:46 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 1:20 am

Quoting RamerinianAir (Thread starter):
All I hear ia how they are strapped for widebody A/C and here they are sending one on the low yeild SDQ route.

It is possible that this one of the aircrafts that sit on the ground for a couple of hours waiting for the return flight to Europe or Asia. The NY-SDQ route is a money maker. Don't let JetBlue's withdrawal from the market trick you. I believe they dropped the route due to weight issues.

LUV4JFK
 yes 
John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 1:36 am

yes huge weight problems flying out of SDQ........unless we fly the 762 or 777 we cannot take freight or even full loads.
 
ramerinianair
Posts: 1452
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:03 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 1:38 am

It typed a reply last night but In guess it didn't go thru . . . .
Basically, I forgot about all of the cargo traffic. I know there is a higher demand for SDQ than most other airports in the Caribbean BUT, there is also A TON more options flying into SDQ. NK has entered the market in recent years, B6 was there for a while and US is there from FLL now. I know that the flight has a high demand for Cargo but does the low yield from passengers make the route worthy of a 777? I think that they could make better use of their 777 flying to another destination although, I do not know how long they have the aircraft available for.
Also, where did this A/C come from??? Did they pull it from another route?
Thanks,
Steve
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
CALMSP
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 1:41 am

it is not a really low-yield market.............why does everyone think that?
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 1:42 am

EWR-SDQ is a high-demand route, with decent yeilds, and CO generally uses a widebody on the route to accommodate the huge amount of bags plus cargo carried on the route. Also, there is also an aircraft allocation issue - CO does an EWR-SDQ-EWR turn inbetween two long range flights, usually the 777 that does the SDQ turn heads to Europe or Israel in the evening.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting Supa7e7 (Reply 3):
It's not like SDQ is super high yield.

Actually, it is. Especially from Miami and Fort Lauderdale and especially given it's short length.

Quoting Supa7e7 (Reply 3):
JetBlue flies there, after all.

No, they don't. Not anymore.

Quoting Supa7e7 (Reply 3):
Recently there has been a lot of new capacity thrown at SDQ (US' FLL-SDQ daily for example)

No, there hasn't. US Airways' FLL-SDQ service replaced US Airways' daily PHL-SDQ service (PHL-SDQ now operates Saturday-only). Spirit Airlines added FLL-SDQ, but American Airlines ended FLL-SDQ. DCA and AeroContinente went bye-bye, so their MIA-SDQ routes went bye-bye too. There is very little capacity to SDQ, especially compared to demand.

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 7):
it is not a really low-yield market.............why does everyone think that?

Most people incorrectly assume that
a.
 
Xkorpyoh
Posts: 727
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:55 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 3:16 am

compare the fares to SDQ (and STI and POP and LRM and PUJ) and you will be see that they are as much as going to Europe (depending on the season). and how hard is to get seats during holidays.
 
ramerinianair
Posts: 1452
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:03 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 3:36 am

Ok, let's look at it this way:
Averages of July 23-30 and Aug 12-19
Other Airlines Continental
NYC-SXM $450 + $871
NYC-STX $395 + $950
NYC-STT $400 + $647
NYC-ANU $450 + $773
NYC-EIS $425 + $613.65
NYC-POS $600 + $512
NYC-AUA $577 + $775

NYC-SDQ $365 + $365

NOTE: CO is generally a little toward the higher end when pricing out airfare. On similar trips to the caribbean, prices can be DOUBLE the price of EWR-SDQ with CO. Their yield is not high on the SDQ route and definately not "Super High"!
You may call STX and ANU super-high because their lack of competition! Not SDQ!
Anyway, they have an extra few hours so they send the 777 to SDQ, sounds good, I just suprised that there wasn't a higher yielding route to dispatch the 777 on.
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
xlpants
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:36 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 6:28 am

The 777 is not doubt going to PEK on the 16th

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 7):
it is not a really low-yield market.............why does everyone think that?

because it is!
 
commavia
Posts: 9644
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting RamerinianAir (Thread starter):
All I hear ia how they are strapped for widebody A/C and here they are sending one on the low yield SDQ route.

This is certainly the antithesis of low-yield. SDQ has stellar passenger and cargo yields, as not too many Dominicans have Orbitz or Expedia!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 6:51 am

Quoting Xlpants (Reply 12):
Quoting CALMSP (Reply 7):
it is not a really low-yield market.............why does everyone think that?


because it is!

Actually, no it's not

Quoting RamerinianAir (Reply 11):
Anyway, they have an extra few hours so they send the 777 to SDQ, sounds good, I just suprised that there wasn't a higher yielding route to dispatch the 777 on.

The combination of good yields (maybe not BGI, but good yields) and massive cargo/excess baggage makes it more than worth it to keep the 777 off the ground. CO is probably the best airline around when it comes to widebody fleet utilization and they are doing an even better job of it using the 777 to SDQ
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
777gk
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 11:40 am

I've flown the route with the 767-400, and I will confirm CALMSP's statement that we did not take on any freight in SDQ due to weight restrictions and utterly ridiculous amounts of passenger baggage.

Our yield derived purely from passenger fares is not stellar, no question, but what helps that fact is that we usually operate with full loads in large economy class sections.

Additionally, we collect an astounding amount of excess baggage fees, which we move with priority since these still are even more lucrative than the freight contracts we have on the route.

Add to that the fact that we have tremendous potential cargo to carry on the route when we have the room for it (paid at premium), and you have a recipe for a very profitable city pair.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 12:22 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 5):
yes huge weight problems flying out of SDQ........unless we fly the 762 or 777 we cannot take freight or even full loads.

While I believe everyone on this, I don't understand it.

EWR-SDQ is 1353nm. A 767-400 should be able to take off with its absolute max payload and make this route no problem.

Is SDQ's runway ridiculously short?

N
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 12:22 pm

Quoting RamerinianAir (Reply 11):
CO is generally a little toward the higher end when pricing out airfare. On similar trips to the caribbean, prices can be DOUBLE the price of EWR-SDQ with CO. Their yield is not high on the SDQ route and definately not "Super High"!
You may call STX and ANU super-high because their lack of competition! Not SDQ!
Anyway, they have an extra few hours so they send the 777 to SDQ, sounds good, I just suprised that there wasn't a higher yielding route to dispatch the 777 on.
SR

You cannot just compare fares to get an accurate representation of yield. There are way too many other X factors that go into it. Take into account, for example, cargo traffic, which is far greater to Santo Domingo than any of those others. Also, comparing Santo Domingo to markets with very limited service, like Beef Island, makes no sense. Compare it to Nassau, Montego Bay, Punta Cana, San Juan, etc.

Santo Domingo is a very high-yielding market. Excellent cargo yields, limited compietition, and far too little capacity with respect to demand, even with AA sending 5+ daily A300s.
a.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 12:29 pm

SDQ has an average bag weight of 50 pounds to start with. So right there you are already up 20 pounds from a domestic flight. Not to mention that SDQ, every pax carries 12 bags. You have to also factor in wind speed and temperature. THe 767-400 you also need to keep the aircraft balanced left and right..not just fwd and aft.
 
ramerinianair
Posts: 1452
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:03 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 2:23 pm

MAH4546,
I realize that EIS and SDQ have different demands and services. Because of the fact that SDQ has a lot of service, the fares are lower -> more competition! EIS and ANU are very high yielding markets precisely due to the lack of service to those islands!
Passenger yields are low to SDQ compared to the rest of the Caribbean. The reason for it being a money maker is the baggage/cargo. I was picking up my friend from JFK on AA. They had a family going to SJU and they had 3 bags per person, ALL over weight. This produces a lot of revenue for them. The ticket yield however is still very low.
SR
Also, what happens to all the bags when CO flies a 738 or 739? Do all the bags fit? I would imagine if the 764 is up to the limit with bags, the 739 may have a problem, no?
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 2:40 pm

Can somebody explain why SDQ has such a huge freight market as compared to other markets in the Carib?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
N77014
Posts: 812
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:16 pm

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 2:43 pm

Quoting LUV4JFK (Reply 4):
It is possible that this one of the aircrafts that sit on the ground for a couple of hours waiting for the return flight to Europe or Asia. The NY-SDQ route is a money maker. Don't let JetBlue's withdrawal from the market trick you. I believe they dropped the route due to weight issues.

Correct. The turn leaves EWR at 0820 lcl, returning 1720 lcl. So for a ship overnighting in EWR, it can produce this turn and still make a transatlantic assignment. It seems to revert back to a B753 later on in the summer.

[Edited 2005-05-02 07:55:43]

[Edited 2005-05-02 07:56:43]
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: CO: 777 To SDQ In June?

Mon May 02, 2005 2:46 pm

Quoting RamerinianAir (Reply 19):
Because of the fact that SDQ has a lot of service, the fares are lower -> more competition! EIS and ANU are very high yielding markets precisely due to the lack of service to those islands!

The fares are lower, but the market is not low-yield.
a.