frugalqxnwa
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NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 10:00 am

How many A320s were originally painted in the Orient livery? Was it just the first one or was it several, and how long did they last?


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4everRC
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 10:13 am

I believe that that is the only one that was delivered in that paint. The "bowling shoe" scheme was introduced at about the same time.
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kcrwflyer
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 10:15 am

Which leads me to another question. Did NW used to be based in Asia?
 
stirling
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 10:19 am

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 2):
Did NW used to be based in Asia?

No. Other than the Tokyo base of operations.
I'm wondering what makes you ask? Because of the "Orient" in the name?
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frugalqxnwa
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 11:51 am

NW has always been based in Minneapolis. Tokyo is one of their hubs.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 3):
No. Other than the Tokyo base of operations.
I'm wondering what makes you ask? Because of the "Orient" in the name?

yup it was the orient. just curious why is orient even in their former name?
 
DLKAPA
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 12:21 pm

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 5):
yup it was the orient. just curious why is orient even in their former name?

At the time they were the largest airline operating between the northwestern United States and the Orient. I think they still are.
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chiawei
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 3:31 pm

i believe its either one or two.

They did not last through 1st revenue flight.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 4:05 pm

I remember reading a long time ago about some sort of rule China has or had about foriegn air service that required a special name or label on any airline division that flew to China.

Is that true? Because if that's the case maybe that's why NW had the "Orient" in the name...to open up more asian markets.


It's a stretch. I'm just going based on what I read a long time ago, but I read it on this forum so it's not to be taken as fact!
 
Trvlr
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 4:18 pm

Aloha717200: I think you're referring to the clever brand manoeuvring that some airlines had to accomplish in order to serve both China and Taiwan. I'm not sure if this is the case now, but in the past, either China or Taiwan (I'm not sure which one) would frown upon international carriers serving both nations, hence the "rule" you mention. In order to get around this diplomatic pothole, many airlines created separate divisions in order to start service to Taiwan. The most notable and arguably the most successful is Japan Asia Airways, a unit of JAL. However, many other such subsidiaries have existed in the past or still exist, such as British Asia Airways (unit of BA), KLM Asia, Australia Asia Airways (QANTAS), and Air France Asie.

However, this is not the reason why NW was originally called "Northwest Orient" Smile. I am all but certain that the "Orient" simply referred to the venerable Asian network that Northwest has had for most of its existence.

Aaron G.
 
frugalqxnwa
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 9:30 pm

Too bad NW changed to the bowling shoe when they did, the A320 looks really good in the Orient livery.
 
jdaniel001
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 9:45 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 6):
At the time they were the largest airline operating between the northwestern United States and the Orient. I think they still are.

Remeber, PA pioneered airline service to the Pacific Rim. NW has always had a strong presence and was the largest carrier to fly from the U.S. when PA sold the Pacific routes to UA. But now UA is the largest carrier offering more seats to Asia.
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bobnwa
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 10:12 pm

No one at Northwest ever called it the "Orient" livery. I think that term came to be on this board.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 10:24 pm

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 11):
But now UA is the largest carrier offering more seats to Asia.

Are you sure about this? I thought NW had more service....not counting Australia of course
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KaiGywer
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Tue May 03, 2005 11:22 pm

Quoting Frugalqxnwa (Reply 10):
Too bad NW changed to the bowling shoe when they did, the A320 looks really good in the Orient livery.

I must be the only one, but I think that livery is just outright ugly. I liked the bowling shoe, and love the newest one.
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frugalqxnwa
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 12:04 am

The bowling shoe and latest livery are really good looking, especially on NW's narrow-baody fleet. However, I believe the "Orient" livery would have looked awesome on a whole fleet of A319/320s. Just my opinion, though.

As for calling it the "Orient" livery, I couldn't think of a better name that was descriptive. What did people in NW call it?
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 12:13 am

I think NW should paint some of each of their types in the old "orient" colors, complete with polished metal. That would be SO COOL!!
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N867BX
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 12:26 am

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 11):
But now UA is the largest carrier offering more seats to Asia.

Are you sure about that?

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 14):
I must be the only one, but I think that livery is just outright ugly. I liked the bowling shoe, and love the newest one.

I think that livery is especially ugly on the 320 because of the grey paint instead of the bare aluminum.
 
BillElliott9
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 12:31 am

Keep in mind the "Orient" (or meatball as the logo has been described) scheme you are referring to rolled out with the delivery of their first 747s in the early 70s. Prior to that, "Orient" was not nearly as prominent in the paint scheme.

NW first served Europe in '77 or '78 (not including interchanges with Pan Am) as I recall. The Orient portion was completely dropped following the merger with Republic.
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Junction
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 12:54 am

Quoting BillElliott9 (Reply 18):
Keep in mind the "Orient" (or meatball as the logo has been described)

Was "meatball" really also used to described the NW livery? I know it was for CO, but NW too?
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 1:10 am

Northwest began trans-atlantic in February 1979. The "Orient" livery was called the old paint-job once the 'bowling shoe" came out. Thats all I remember it being called.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 1:29 am

First Transatlantic scheduled pax flight was:

March 31, 1979
MSP-DTW-JFK-CPH-ARN
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dutchjet
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 1:48 am

If you look at NW's old route maps, in the 1960s and most of the 1970s, the airline's main focus of service was the northwestern region of the US and the orient.........thus Northwest Orient the big stations back then were MSP and SEA). By the 1970s, as the NW's route map was developing, first with services out of ORD and other cities to Florida (NW was very very big in the Chicago-Florida market at one time.....I remember daily 747s and DC10s out of ORD to MIA, TPA and other Florida cities) and then with their first attempt at a transatlantic route system (which was a rather bizarre collection of routes out of JFK and BOS to everywhere from Iceland to the Scandic countires to Scotland......I think NW picked up usused authorities from other US carriers), NW believed that the it had outgrown the Orient name and it was becoming a marketing liability. After the Republic merger, as mentioned above, the Orient portion of the name was gone for good.

NW's slogan for many years was: "we give you half of the world, at Northwest Orient.""

Concerning the A320, I think that the first three A320s were initially painted in the old livery but its my understanding that each of the aircraft were repainted in the "bowling shoe" scheme prior to introduction into revenue service.
 
BillElliott9
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 1:55 am

Quoting Junction (Reply 19):
Was "meatball" really also used to described the NW livery? I know it was for CO, but NW too?

God I hate to say this....but I heard the "meatball" term from folks with NW...mainly during the transition with the Republic merger. CO is definitely more associated with a meatball logo than NW. Sorry for the confusion!
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isitsafenow
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 2:18 am

They were Northwest Orient before the meatball logo showed up in 1968. The meatball scheme emphasized the word Orient in their name. If you find some paint schemes of 707's of the 1960's you will see the word Orient on the fuselage. Now compare with the 1970's and see how predominate Orient is.
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ILSApproach
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 2:48 am

I always associated the meatball with PA.

Mike @ MSP

OH.................I think the "Orient" scheme looks great on the 320! Too bad more of them didn't get it!
 
BillElliott9
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 4:41 am

60s vs 70s Northwest Orient.


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Note in the 60s scheme "Northwest Orient Airlines" is in small type under the first few windows.
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N1120A
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 8):
I remember reading a long time ago about some sort of rule China has or had about foriegn air service that required a special name or label on any airline division that flew to China.

Is that true? Because if that's the case maybe that's why NW had the "Orient" in the name...to open up more asian markets.

That has nothing to do with the TPE/China rule. Also, US carriers don't abide by that rule.
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chgoflyer
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 5:39 am

Northwest was the name until after WWII when they developed/pioneered the trans polar routes and added Orient. Pan Am had a large Clipper presence in Asia as well but always via Hawaii.
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KaiGywer
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 5:43 am

Quoting BillElliott9 (Reply 26):
60s vs 70s Northwest Orient.

Now the 60s one I kinda like. The next one looks like they ran out of paint and couldn't finish the line all the way to the nose.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
frugalqxnwa
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 6:24 am

Quoting N867BX (Reply 17):
I think that livery is especially ugly on the 320 because of the grey paint instead of the bare aluminum.

It is true that it would look better with the bare metal, but remember Airbus at the time was not certain polish would do an adequate job of preventing corrosion with the specific metal and other materials they use. AA had a gray scheme on their A300s for a while before Airbus was convinced the polished metal would not corrode.
 
NWADC9
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 7:09 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 5):
just curious why is orient even in their former name?

It was a marketing scheme since we were the only US Airline allowed to fly to Japan, pick up passengers, and fly to other Asian cities at the time.

Quoting BillElliott9 (Reply 18):
Keep in mind the "Orient" (or meatball as the logo has been described) scheme you are referring to rolled out with the delivery of their first 747s in the early 70s.

Then why is there a 707-looking tail in the circle?
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 7:28 am

Here's their old advertising jungle:

http://www.old-time.com/weekly/nworient.ram

Mark
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dtwclipper
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 8:12 am

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 31):
It was a marketing scheme since we were the only US Airline allowed to fly to Japan, pick up passengers, and fly to other Asian cities at the time.

Pan Am had fifth freedom rights @ NRT as well.
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146crew
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 8:15 am

A Little off topic, I saw N618US (747-200F) in front of the hangar NW uses as ORD and I could see the outline of the old Northwest Orient Cargo titles on the bare metal. kind of cool!
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isitsafenow
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 11:28 am

AHH..BILLELLIOTT9, the first NW plane in the NW Meatball scheme was a repainted B720B, N721US, the second was another 720B, N730US. The first NEW airplane delivered to NW in the Meatball scheme was a Boeing 727-200, N261US.
The first 727-100 in the meatball scheme was N463US, a repaint, of course. These were all before the first 747 delivered to NW in the spring of 70.
I know, I was there.
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frugalqxnwa
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 35):
AHH..BILLELLIOTT9, the first NW plane in the NW Meatball scheme was a repainted B720B, N721US, the second was another 720B, N730US. The first NEW airplane delivered to NW in the Meatball scheme was a Boeing 727-200, N261US.
The first 727-100 in the meatball scheme was N463US, a repaint, of course. These were all before the first 747 delivered to NW in the spring of 70.
I know, I was there.
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Thats what I was thinking, but then my knowledge was purely from the a.net database.
 
NWADC9
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 12:32 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 33):
Pan Am had fifth freedom rights @ NRT as well.

But weren't NWA first?
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jdaniel001
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 1:40 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 13):
Are you sure about this? I thought NW had more service....not counting Australia of course

Well...I think that if you go by the number of seats, UA is bigger. But I can't prove it. I bet NWADC9 would know or at least find out.

Quoting Chgoflyer (Reply 28):
Northwest was the name until after WWII when they developed/pioneered the trans polar routes and added Orient. Pan Am had a large Clipper presence in Asia as well but always via Hawaii

Actually, UA developed the trans polar routes as we know them today. And they also pioneered the great circle routes during the '60's during the MAC charters to Vietnam.

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 37):
But weren't NWA first?

I don't think so.
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dtwclipper
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 1:49 pm

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 38):
Actually, UA developed the trans polar routes as we know them today. And they also pioneered the great circle routes during the '60's during the MAC charters to Vietnam.

NWA Launched it's JFK (IDL) ANC- Tokyo, Polar service on June 1, 1959.
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burnsie28
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 1:51 pm

I believe UA has more seats available across the pacific, but NW is larger all around in Asia, in fact NW is Japans second largest airline behind JAL and ahead of ANA

[Edited 2005-05-04 06:55:53]
 
gigneil
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 2:00 pm

I believe UA's RPMs in Asia are much higher, while NW's Japan RPMs are higher.

UA operates a lot of nonstop Asia service from SFO, not to mention the bits from ORD, while also offering those same destinations from NRT.

NW is fleet constrained... UA dedicates almost 30 744s to Asian exploits with the few remaining to Europe, as well as a large chunk of their 777s.

NW at this point is operating 8 332s and 16 744s to and in Asia.

N
 
jdaniel001
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 2:02 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 39):
NWA Launched it's JFK (IDL) ANC- Tokyo, Polar service on June 1, 1959.

Ok, I was wrong on my date. It was July 8, 1950. United started MAC charters to Korea from SFO. My source is "High Horizons" by Frank J. Taylor p. 178.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 40):
I believe UA has more seats availible across the pacific, but NW is larger all around in Asia, in fact NW is Japans second largest airline behind JAL and ahead of ANA

I don't know, it might be close. UA just added Nagoya and yesterday started Nagoya to Taipei nonstop. And they just added KIX to ORD last year. Oh and Vietnam out of HKG.
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dtwclipper
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 2:16 pm

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 42):
Ok, I was wrong on my date. It was July 8, 1950. United started MAC charters to Korea from SFO. My source is "High Horizons" by Frank J. Taylor p. 178.

I've got the same book, and it doesn't mention routing at all. NW was already serving Seoul since July 15, 1947. NW halts service on July 25 1950 because of the war.
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RayChuang
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 9:51 pm

If I remember correctly, when NW started its route to Asia in the late 1940's they used DC-4's flying from Seattle to Tokyo via Anchorage and Shemya Island.

Also, one reason why NW has such a strong presence at NRT is the fact Japan Airlines (JL) was started with the help of NW.
 
BillElliott9
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Wed May 04, 2005 10:34 pm

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 35):



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 35):
AHH..BILLELLIOTT9, the first NW plane in the NW Meatball scheme was a repainted B720B, N721US, the second was another 720B, N730US. The first NEW airplane delivered to NW in the Meatball scheme was a Boeing 727-200, N261US.
The first 727-100 in the meatball scheme was N463US, a repaint, of course. These were all before the first 747 delivered to NW in the spring of 70.
I know, I was there.
safe

Thanks for the history lesson and facts!
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burnsie28
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Thu May 05, 2005 12:12 am

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 42):
I don't know, it might be close. UA just added Nagoya and yesterday started Nagoya to Taipei nonstop. And they just added KIX to ORD last year. Oh and Vietnam out of HKG.

NW also has Busan, Guangzhou, Nagoya (been there quite a while), Osaka has been around quite a while for both airlines and UA dropped on KIX route to switch to the ORD route.


Cities in Asia served with own metal:
NW:
Tokyo (Narita)
Osaka (Kansai)
Nagoya (Centrair)
Busan
Taipei
Manila
Guangzhou
Seoul
Beijing
Shanghai
Bombay
Guam
Saipan
Hong Kong
Singapore
Bangkok
Bangalore (starting upon final government approval)

UA:
Tokyo (Narita)
Osaka (Kansai)
Nagoya (Centrair)
Hong Kong
Bangkok
Taipei
Shanghai
Seoul
Singapore
Beijing
Saigon

FROM AP Press Release:

Northwest offers service to more destinations in Asia, more flights between the U.S. and Japan, and more flights within Asia than any other U.S. airline. The airline operates a hub from Tokyo's Narita Airport that connects the U.S. cities of Detroit, Honolulu, Los Angeles, Minneapolis/St. Paul, New York (JFK), Portland, San Francisco and Seattle to key destinations including Bangkok, Thailand; Beijing; Busan, South Korea; Guam; Guangzhou, China; Hong Kong; Manila; Nagoya; Saipan; Seoul, South Korea; Shanghai, China and Singapore. Northwest also offers nonstop service from Osaka, Japan to Detroit and Taipei, Taiwan, and from Nagoya to Detroit, Manila, and Saipan.
 
NWADC9
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Thu May 05, 2005 3:40 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 41):
NW at this point is operating 8 332s and 16 744s to and in Asia.

Gee, I never knew the 757-5600's* disappeared  Yeah sure They had A320-200's there once the SARS outbreak started to replace the big 747's, then they upgraded to 757's.

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 38):
Well...I think that if you go by the number of seats, UA is bigger. But I can't prove it. I bet NWADC9 would know or at least find out.

No, NWADC9 doesn't know. Burnsie might know, so some of the wiseguys here.


*The 757-5600 is this one: http://seatguru.com/airlines/Northwe...west_Airlines_Boeing_757-200_B.php The 757-5500 is this one: http://seatguru.com/airlines/Northwe...west_Airlines_Boeing_757-200_A.php And the 757-5800 is the 757-300.
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SBN580
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Thu May 05, 2005 4:33 am

Wow! I've never seen this shot of an Airbus in the pre-bowling shoe livery. I always thought it was ok, but was never crazy about their meatball. I did not really get it. As someone who worked at NASA for ten years, I can say "meatball" also refers to the NASA logo, the present one round with the chevron flying through it. Also the original, the other logo with just the word NASA spelled out in curved typeface is called the "worm." I was very glad the NASA meatball came back in the mid-90's.

As for NW's present scheme....I think it's horrible! "nwa" only stands for one thing in popular culture! Not a well thought out marketing idea. And it does not get any more dumb than the compass logo pointing the WRONG way on the starboard side! They can make up any excuse for it, but it looks wrong. That whole NW compass logo is one of the best of all-time in the industry. Like the Delta widget, it was foolish to mess with it. If the livery before it was the "bowling shoe," what is the one now, the silver slipper?
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Junction
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RE: NW A320s In Orient Livery

Thu May 05, 2005 4:50 am

Quoting SBN580 (Reply 48):
"meatball" also refers to the NASA logo

I'm beginning to think "meatball" refers to any round logo affiliated with aviation. Is that right? I thought it was a pretty good description of the old CO logo since it actually looks like spaghetti strings over the top of a meatball  Smile (especially the red one).

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Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos