wjcandee
Posts: 5190
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 9:32 am

Heard a rumor tonight that AA will be soon starting 5 flights a day LGA-ATL with MD80s and ridiculously low fares, trying to punish Airtran.

I find this dubious or extremely stupid. Given the relatively-low volume of o/d versus conx traffic on this route, they're not likely to be very full. It's the same kind of idiotic thing they did out of JFK to LGB, SNA, etc. a two summers ago, abandoning it, of course, when they got creamed. They can't get their corporate culture past the old Crandall "punish them if they dare compete with us; hit them where it hurts" mentality. Unless they plan to offer scads of conx out of ATL, it's a useless effort. Probably will cannibalize their LGA-DFW traffic (i.e. folks connecting in ATL), on which they get an insanely HIGH price.

Good luck, AA. It'll be fun watching the trail of red ink behind those MD80s!
 
flyyul
Posts: 4397
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 10:01 am

Do you honestly think that AA is going to waste valuable slots in LGA on a money-losing service?

Seriously, this rumour is very childish.
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 10:01 am

Yeah, I think there was an over/under thread on how long this would last.

Ambitious, to say the least.  Smile
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 10:18 am

It's true, starts on June 9th. It's a very very dumb move on the part of AA. They wouldn't just be starting a fare war with FL, they'd be starting one with DL as well, since DL offers similar fares on the route as well. Between DL and FL, there are currently 25 RTs a day on the route, using everything from 712s and 73Gs ( FL ) to MD-80s, 752s, 762s and 763s ( DL ). That's quite a number of seats on the route already. While American has a nice amount of cities in which to connect to out of LGA, DL and FL offer a lot more out of ATL. The only city AA/AE offers out LGA that doesn't currently have any NS service out of ATL is BGR; OH does flies to BGR out of BOS and CVG, so either way you'd have to connect in order to get there from ATL.
 
GroundStop
Posts: 607
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RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 1):
Do you honestly think that AA is going to waste valuable slots in LGA on a money-losing service?

Yes, it starts next month.
 
Hirnie
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 7:13 pm

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 11:15 am

Just a guess and I´m sorry for this in advance, but could it be possible that AA wants to upgrade the NY-Area in it`s network?Are they planning to add some more destinations?
I don`t know enough about numbers of freuqeuncies and amount in this area, so take this as a guess from an "outsider"...

Regards
 
AA787
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:46 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 11:21 am

They only have 130 or 131 slots at LGA. Even if they are mad at FL or DL, they would not waste valuable slots at LGA on money losers. They are launching ATL along with CLT, and they must have a certain amount of confidence that they can make money on these flights. And if they dont...what other routes could they possibly launch?

AA787
ET In NYC
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 11:25 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Thread starter):
They can't get their corporate culture past the old Crandall "punish them if they dare compete with us; hit them where it hurts" mentality.

It’s a favorite pastime in the confines of Fort Worth’s Amon Carter Blvd, one that AA repeats ever so often. They call it the ‘American’ dream; their competitors call it the American ‘wet’ dream…
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 11:46 am

It has The route is being launched for a few reasons (some AA won't admit too).

1) To combat Delta for Simplifares.
2) New York City is Atlanta's largest O&D market, with 6,144 passengers per day. That is almost 3,000 more daily passengers than Atlanta's 2nd largest O&D market, Miami. It is a huge market.
3) They are hoping that, with Delta's financial woes, they are in a better situation to lure passengers onto this key business route.
4) They have a huge passenger base in NYC, and Atlanta is a key domestic market from NYC.

That being said, I don't imagine this lasting that long, or at least not with mainline (it will launch as a combo of mainline and Eagle).
a.
 
shawnnyc
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:48 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 12:01 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
That being said, I don't imagine this lasting that long, or at least not with mainline (it will launch as a combo of mainline and Eagle).

If its Eagle does that mean smaller aircraft than MD80. Atlanta seems far to be in those cramped planes. I flew on of those small jets from LGE to LEB and thought it lasted for ever.
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 890
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RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 12:27 pm

DL is going to take them to the cleaners..LGA is their number one domestic route from ATL...they will defend it at all costs...period.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
avek00
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RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 12:31 pm

The flight is intended to serve as a costly nuisance for FL, in the hopes that FL scales back DFW service.
Live life to the fullest.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 12:36 pm

Its starting in June with 5 flights: 3 MD-80, 2 ERJ's.
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 12:48 pm

Why dont they operate the route at least 2 x daily to connect with the banks of International flights from JFK?

Regards - Kahala777
 
ckfred
Posts: 4736
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 1:01 pm

You have to remember that many companies have contracts with airlines. My wife's company is based in CVG and has a contract with DL. She must fly DL out of ORD if there is non-stop service, unless DL flights are full. So, she has to fly DL to CVG or ATL.

So, if a company in the New York area has a contract with AA and sends a lot of employees to ATL or CLT on business, there are instant passengers for AA's new service.

You also have to remember that not everyone likes DL. A friend of mine who used to fly DL a lot on LGA-ATL hates DL. He used to schedule trips to ATL and Chicago for the same week, just so he could fly AA from ATL to ORD and back to LGA, thus having to fly DL for only one leg.

If there are other New Yorkers with that mindset about DL or US, AA has more potential passengers for ATL and CLT.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5190
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 2:26 pm

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 11):
The flight is intended to serve as a costly nuisance for FL, in the hopes that FL scales back DFW service.

All these comments are interesting. I heard, however, what is quoted here -- it's retaliation against Airtran. I'm still trying to figure out how they figure that they will hurt FL badly enough to make them change their plans at DFW.

NYC may be a big destination market for passengers originating in ATL, but I'm not sure how big a destination market ATL is for pax originating in NYC that aren't associated with an Atlanta-based company. DL and FL clearly pull a huge number of pax through ATL from EWR and LGA (DL has hourly service to EWR with 732s and MD80s, and, as noted above, runs some of its biggest jets (including, depending upon the season, the 767-400) into LGA from ATL. However, it is my understanding that an inordinate amount of their origination traffic in NYC is connecting through ATL to somewhere else. That's been a tradition for decades: to get to the Southeast, other than major Florida markets (FLL, MCO, etc.), you used to take Eastern or DL from LGA through ATL. With slot restrictions at LGA, this is still the case, except Eastern is replaced to a limited extent by Airtran and by USAirways through CLT (except for RJ destinations). And AA has nowhere to connect to (but see below).

AA may indeed pick up some contract business that's originating in NYC to terminate in ATL, but it stands to reason that the ATL based companies have contracts with DL or FL, so the converse is less likely to be true. How often do I see Bill Hemmer from CNN waiting for a flight on DL from LGA-ATL? Or do I sit next to a Coca-Cola employee on DL? True, many companies also have policies that say that the travel department will assign you to the cheapest seat on whatever network carrier is available, and AA can try to get some of that business (they're talking about $169 round-trips on the route, although I don't know what restrictions they are discussing). Bottom line for me is that it seems that AA can get some bottom-of-the-barrel business, they can try to degrade the fares on the route by hoping that DL and FL will have to match them, and they can get some of the NY-based contract and DL-hater business. But that's pretty much it. And they're going to have to hit an awfully-high load factor on an MD80 to break even at the fares they are proposing. How this benefits them, or encourages Airtran to pull out of or limit its expansion in DFW, is beyond me. FL only has to fill 35-or-so seats on a 717 to break even flying to LGA. How bad is AA really going to hurt them?

One thing I did think about tonight (on a flight to ATL from LGA, by the way) was one route on which AA may recapture some business: LGA-DFW. I used to fly that city pair a lot, and AA and DL used to command $1200+ for a one-way coach seat bought within 3 days of departure. It had to be a gigantic moneymaker. The fares were so insane that I personally refused often to pay them, even when my firm's clients were getting the bill. I would take SunJet's Last Flight Out of Newark nonstop, or I would connect through MDW on ATA, for like $129. In the intervening years, I understand that many, many people began to do the same thing. The LGA-MDW-DFW and LGA-ATL-DFW routes apparently do get a significant number of pax. And why not? Coach one way on AA? Or round-trip in business on one of the discount carriers? Unless time is incredibly important, that's a lot of money to save for an extra hour-and-a-half of travel time. If AA enters LGA through ATL, it could recapture some of that traffic with low connecting fares without sacrificing the nonstop fares. Or, as I originally noted, they could end up hurting *themselves* on the DFW-LGA route, because now AA loyalists' companies may want to know why they spent a zillion $$ on a nonstop ticket when a connection on the same airline through ATL was so much cheaper. Guess we'll have to see about that one.

Maybe they are geniuses. Maybe they will crush FL by this bold move. Or maybe this will end up being LGB-JFK and SNA-JFK all over again.

I'm so glad that they "know why I fly". It's too bad that what they do at their company doesn't reflect this "knowledge".

Best,

Bill

[Edited 2005-05-04 07:34:17]
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
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RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 2:44 pm

Before this service was started, I suggested to AA loaylists an easy and fun connection in BNA to fly from LGA to ATL. The BNA-ATL leg is on a J31, a fun little prop.

If the fare was similar, I would take this just because it is fun.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5190
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RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 2:50 pm

PS Groundstop, if you would be so kind, please spank the Jetway Driver that left us (373) sitting at C18 for ten minutes at 11:10pm -- we were marshalled right in but just sat there while the Captain tried to make jokes through the open door and several radio calls to find someone. I would have done it myself, but he had wisely fled by the time I exited -- and I was about the fifth person off. As I'm sure you know, waiting for ten minutes to be marshalled in (as another airline did to me Monday) to an open gate that everyone can see has nobody around it, or pulling up to a dark jetway that stays that way for ten minutes, just makes otherwise-happy passengers insane. Everyone assumes that it happens because "the airline doesn't care", rather than because some individual, anonymous fatass wasn't paying attention. I usually bide my time thinking of some new creative torture that I will in my dreams inflict upon this miscreant; it seems to help.

Best,

Bill

[Edited 2005-05-04 07:53:19]
 
Fleet Service
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 11:58 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 7:37 pm

Sorry to disappoint you Bill, but from the checking I've been doing in SABRE, those LGA-ATL flights are already well booked.

The idea of flying direct LGA-ATL has some appeal to folks who prefer a nonstop as opposed to a connection through a hub station.

Another point you overlooked was the fact AA basically matched DL's "Simplifares" across much of the network, so its not like we're charging $1,200.00 on the route when DL and FL are charging $169.00.

It's been proven that when the prices are the same, people will fly AA.The AAdvantge program is a poweful addiction to overcome.
Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
 
lear35pilot
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2000 6:56 pm

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 9:59 pm

Whatever AA's reasoning is for launching this new service pair, I for one will be flying them to ATL. Having just left the DL Medallion FFP for AAdvantage, I will definately be on one of the first LGA-ATL flights in early June.
 
Junction
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:50 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 10:51 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 17):
Jetway Driver that left us (373) sitting at C18 for ten minutes at 11:10pm

Just out of curiosity, did your flight happen to arrive early? I have noticed it basically doesn’t do any good to arrive early anymore, because you just have to sit and wait for a gate (or gate agent) until the scheduled time anyway. This is especially true at hubs. I would guess it's do to tight scheduling and staff shortages for the most part.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5190
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Wed May 04, 2005 11:09 pm

Junction: This flight was basically on-time, and the ground marshalls were right there (and the lav truck pulled up as soon as we parked at the gate). Only the jetway driver was absent. The captain said it happens *every night* on this route.

The DL flight where we sat in the alley staring at an open gate this week *was* early. In fact, the pilot dejectedly announced to the aircraft, "doesn't pay to be early any more". This is a real problem, given how heavily padded most schedules are these days (in an attempt to raise "on time" performance). If you fly down without waiting forever to take off, and the weather is clear, and the flight is uneventful, you *will* be early. For an airline then to force you to sit there in the a/c because the flight is "early" would suck beyond belief. At Delta, this is probably one of many ways in which layoffs/early retirements of experienced people have resulted in chinks in the system. This sure would have been a rarity in the old days.

Best,

Bill
 
ckfred
Posts: 4736
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 3:02 am

One other point, although a minor one. Several years ago, all DL flights out of ATL for BOS, LGA, EWR, DFW, and ORD departed from the T gates. I think that has changed.

I do remember that when B6 was flying ATL-LGB, all DL flights for LAX departed from T, but I know that flights for ORD often depart from A or B, and once in a while, E.

Since AA is located on Concourse T, it certainly offers a much easier departure procedure for those going to LGA by bypassing the main security checkpoint and the mob scene at the South Terminal ticketing area.
 
jrlander
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 3:26 am

Any guesses on Delta's response?

New York to Chicago flights, maybe? (other than the daily CRJ from JFK-ORD)
 
LGAtoIND
Posts: 416
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RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 4:11 am

Why dosen't Delta start 3x Daily MD80s nonstop from LGA-DFW? Since they used to fly the route, they still probably have loyal customers in LGA and DFW. They could get back at AA and still make money with a route with virtually no competition. Also, maybe LGA-MIA on Song could work?
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting Fleet Service (Reply 18):
It's been proven that when the prices are the same, people will fly AA.The AAdvantge program is a poweful addiction to overcome.

Right sarcastic , as if you were told by the billions of passengers in the country that if they could fly any airline that they would fly AA. DL's frequent flier program is massive, I've heard it stated from both airlines that they have the largest number of FF in the world. I'd choose DL any day over AA, so your "proof" isn't proof at all.

Jeremy
 
jfkaua
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:42 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
using everything from 712s and 73Gs ( FL ) to MD-80s, 752s, 762s and 763s ( DL )

Don't forget my favorite 764 one flight daily i believe.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 7:55 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 25):
Right , as if you were told by the billions of passengers in the country that if they could fly any airline that they would fly AA. DL's frequent flier program is massive, I've heard it stated from both airlines that they have the largest number of FF in the world. I'd choose DL any day over AA, so your "proof" isn't proof at all.

Good for you Jeremy, and that is what makes the world turn. You like DL, and others like AA. Fact is that AAdvantage is the first and still has a large customer base.
"The low fares airline."
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2559
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 24):
Why dosen't Delta start 3x Daily MD80s nonstop from LGA-DFW?

'Cuz DFW didn't work for DL. DFW is AA territory and DAL has WN.

I actually think AA will keep the flights, maybe not five of them, but some of them and FL and DL will just be upset. Think more of NYC and AA than ATL and AA and the route makes more sense.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 8:26 am

This route will ultimately fail for AA IMHO...I hope DL does retaliate!
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 8:34 am

Quoting B4real (Reply 28):
'Cuz DFW didn't work for DL

This is an overly siplistic analysis. DFW did not work for DL as a full hub for several reasons. There were, however, many individual routes that did very well. The main reason they failed at DFW was because of the overuse of regional jets. These jets are expensive to operate and uncomfortable for passengers. At the RJ peak of the hub, more than 3/4 of the movements were on RJ's. DFW-LGA was a route that DL was successful with.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 8:52 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 30):
This is an overly siplistic analysis. DFW did not work for DL as a full hub for several reasons. There were, however, many individual routes that did very well. The main reason they failed at DFW was because of the overuse of regional jets. These jets are expensive to operate and uncomfortable for passengers. At the RJ peak of the hub, more than 3/4 of the movements were on RJ's. DFW-LGA was a route that DL was successful with.

If this was the case, why didn't they simply add more mainline capacity? I never quite understood why they couldn't make DFW work. Thank God DL has ATL which is really the size of two hubs if you think about it. CVG and SLC would not sustain them at all.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 8:59 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 31):
why didn't they simply add more mainline capacity

They didn't add mainline capacity because they didn't have the equipment. This was due to their fleet stratagy and their strategy for DFW. They thought the way to compete with AA and get more business travelers was to provide higher frequency with lots of Regional Jets. When fuel costs got out of hand and people realized how uncomfortable the CR2's are, this was a disasterous plan.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 9:03 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 32):
This was due to their fleet stratagy and their strategy for DFW. They thought the way to compete with AA and get more business travelers was to provide higher frequency with lots of Regional Jets.

This is exactly what I mean about DL being a weak competitor. I think the idea of AA flying LGA-ATL is absurd...but at least they have the balls to COMPETE! DL tried to take on AA at their home airport with CRJ's! Who the hell thought of this? Airline managers are some of the dumbest people on earth!
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 9:50 am

Let me run the destinations of the three largest carriers at LGA, and their O&D traffic ranking, by you people, as of July 6, 2005 (note that only domestic stations have been ranked):

AA: #1 DCA, #2 ATL, #3 FLL, #4 BOS, #5 ORD, #6 MCO, #7 DFW, #8 DTW, #9 MIA, #11 TPA, #13 RDU, #19 CLT, #20 STL, #21 MCI, #22 CLE, #23 MSY, #25 CMH, #31 MYR, #34 BNA, #39 HOU, #58 GRR, #73 XNA, #114 BGR, plus international NAS, YYZ, with 131 slots

DL: #1 DCA, #2 ATL, #3 FLL, #4 BOS, #6 MCO, #10 PBI, #11 TPA, #13 RDU, #19 CLT, #25 CMH, #26 GSO, #27 CVG, #31 MYR, #33 JAX, #40 SAV, #42 CHS, #43 RIC, #53 BHM, #55 PWM, #60 GSP, #64 CAE, #70 TYS, #80 LEX, #86 MHT, plus international NAS, YUL, with 115 slots

US: #1 DCA, #3 FLL, #4 BOS, #13 RDU, #17 PIT, #19 CLT, #23 MSY, #25 CMH, #26 GSO, #28 IND, #30 BUF, #31 MYR, #38 SJU, #40 SAV, #42 CHS, #43 RIC, #48 ORF, #49 ROC, #52 DAY, #55 PWM, #56 SDF, #57 SYR, #60 GSP, #74 BTV, #76 BWI, #86 MHT, #89 ILM, #93 PVD, #97 CHO, #101 ACK, #108 ITH, #110 ROA, #114 BGR, #127 MVY, #128 STT, #146 ALB, #149 PHL, #151 HYA, #160 LEB, plus international AUA, BDA, FPO, NAS, with 204 slots

Can you tell, based on these facts, that American is the carrier most interested in the O&D traffic at LaGuardia?

[Edited 2005-05-05 03:02:49]
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 890
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RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 9:55 am

How can DCA be AA's number 1 destination when they only serve it with RJ's. Wouldn't ORD be AA's number 1.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 10:03 am

TinPusher-DCA is not AA's #1 destination from LGA. DCA is LGA's #1 destination period.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
Thucydides
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:18 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 10:46 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 34):
Can you tell, based on these facts, that American is the carrier most interested in the O&D traffic at LaGuardia?

No, you can't tell that AA is most interested in O&D traffic by these numbers.

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 36):
TinPusher-DCA is not AA's #1 destination from LGA. DCA is LGA's #1 destination period.

Right, and the bulk of these passengers are carried by the DL and USAir Shuttles.
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 10:59 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 36):
TinPusher-DCA is not AA's #1 destination from LGA. DCA is LGA's #1 destination period.

OK...I didn't quite understand what I was reading...thanx!
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5190
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 11:25 am

I'm confused. Is ATL the number 2 destination from LGA for pax TERMINATING in ATL, or is it No. 2 for ALL pax going to or through ATL? Makes a big difference.

Also, I'm not sure what we're looking at given that I thought that for true O/D passengers, NY-Chicago was one of the busiest routes in the country. We're to believe that ATL terminates more pax from NY than does Chicago, and that Chicago is indeed No. 5?
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 11:31 am

Phil Derner Jr.
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Thu May 05, 2005 11:46 am

Yes, those are O&D traffic numbers for passengers going to LaGuardia Airport. A passenger flying ATL-IAD-LGA on United is counted as an ATL-LGA passenger, not IAD-LGA.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5190
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Mon May 09, 2005 5:19 am

Quoting Fleet Service (Reply 18):
Sorry to disappoint you Bill, but from the checking I've been doing in SABRE, those LGA-ATL flights are already well booked.

You know, I took this statement on faith, given the background stated by this member. But it gnawed at me. After all, the service doesn't start for a month, and the real revenue isn't generated until we get closer to departure time. Right now, AA is selling the one-ways at about $115.

The fact is, that we must have a different definition of well-booked. These flights, at least in the days around the start-up, are *scarcely*-booked, and at very low margins to boot. While, again, that may be expected this far out on this route, Delta has multiple flights with significantly-higher bookings a month away. And this with *hourly* flights. And God knows how much Priceline and other ultra-low-revenue traffic they are reaching for in order to show the bosses that the flights are "well-booked".

Anyway, this sort of proves nothing, and we won't know anything about how this experiment works until a few months from now. But at least, I think, the snide comment about "bursting my bubble" was uncalled-for at this time. It may still be that this single move depresses revenues on this route to ruinous levels, and forces Airtran to pull out of Dallas, and Delta to collapse, at which point, presumably, AA will chortle all the way to the bank while the genuises on Amon Carter Blvd high-five each other, fully-deserving the allocades showered on them by doubters like me.

But I think it's way too soon to make that judgment.

Best,

Bill
 
N160LH
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:28 pm

RE: AA To Fly LGA-ATL?

Mon May 09, 2005 5:30 pm

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 10):
DL is going to take them to the cleaners..LGA is their number one domestic route from ATL...they will defend it at all costs...period.

You are a 100% correct.... They will drop this in a matter of months. DL flights between LGA ATL are always cattle cars.... AA Messing with DL in ATL... Okay... AA Messing with DL in ATL going to the East coast.... Wasting your time and money.... This is going to fail like AA did at DAL messing with WN!

At least those are my thoughts-
N160LH
"I do alright up in the air, its down on the ground that I tend to mess up..."