CV990
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NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Wed May 04, 2005 6:59 pm

Hi!

In AMS I was quite amazed to see a nice concentration of NW DC-10-30´s. Of course this are 2nd. hand ones because originally NW ordered the 40 version. Now can anyone tell me were all these 30 versions came from and why they replaced the 40´s by the 30´s.
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CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
FX1816
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Wed May 04, 2005 7:14 pm

I believe they are a mix of SAS, Swissair and Continental DC-10-30's but I could be wrong.

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TriStar500
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Wed May 04, 2005 7:20 pm

Some more late-model -30's were from Thai and JAS - these were from among the last batch of 10's delivered in 1987/88.
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Wed May 04, 2005 7:50 pm

The -40 (with PW engines) was flown by very few airlines (I can only immediately think of NW and JAL) so if they wanted to acquire second-hand planes they really had little option but to get -30s with GE CF6s.

As for their origins, some (4 or 5 from memory) certainly came from Swissair as the latter replaced them with MD11s. I flew AMS-IAD-AMS on NW DC-10s in 2002 and hoped to fly on a plane that I'd previously flown on in its SR days but it didn't happen. Sad
 
Titch
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Wed May 04, 2005 7:51 pm

Hi guys,

Quick rundown of what came from where:

N229NW c/n 46551 delivered to KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES (03-Dec-72)
N230NW c/n 46552 delivered to KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES (06-Feb-73)
N221NW c/n 46579 delivered to SWISSAIR (06-Feb-74)
N211NW c/n 46868 delivered to SAS (01-Oct-74)
N223NW c/n 46580 delivered to SWISSAIR (11-Jan-75)
N236NW c/n 46934 delivered to KOREAN AIR (09-Feb-75)
N234NW c/n 46912 delivered to KOREAN AIR (10-Feb-75)
N224NW c/n 46581 delivered to SWISSAIR (14-Feb-75)
N225NW c/n 46582 delivered to SWISSAIR (21-Feb-75)
N235NW c/n 46915 delivered to KOREAN AIR (25-Apr-75)
N232NW c/n 46961 delivered to THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL (05-May-77)
N233NW c/n 46640 delivered to MALAYSIA AIRLINES (21-Sep-77)
N227NW c/n 46969 delivered to SWISSAIR (21-Oct-77)
N226NW c/n 46583 delivered to SWISSAIR (03-Mar-80)
N237NW c/n 47844 delivered to VARIG (10-Nov-80)
N241NW c/n 48282 delivered to VARIG (30-Apr-81)
N242NW c/n 47845 delivered to VARIG (09-Jun-81)
N238NW c/n 48267 delivered to THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL (01-Dec-87)
N239NW c/n 48290 delivered to THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL (22-Dec-87)
N243NW c/n 48315 delivered to TOA DOMESTIC AIRLINES (31-Mar-88)
N240NW c/n 48319 delivered to THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL (26-May-88)
N244NW c/n 48316 delivered to KOREAN AIR (29-Jul-88)


Cheers,
Titch
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dutchjet
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Wed May 04, 2005 11:55 pm

When NW expanded its transatlantic operations, mainly on flights to AMS in connection with the KLM partnership, and began adding some flights in the Pacific region in the early 1990s, it needed additonal intercontinental range airliners and picked DC10-30s (the list above is great, by the way) on the second hand market. It was a good move for NW for several reasons: NW had experience with the DC-10 (as you pointed out, NW operated the DC-10-40 with PW engines on domestic routes and Hawaiian routes, but NW's -40s were not great on longhaul), NW did not have the money at the time to purchase new airliners (who can forget NW's long delayed, revised and renegotiated order for early delivery A330s/A340s), and many DC-10-30s were becominig available on the second hand market at that time as several airlines were accepting newly delivered MD11s and 763ERs and other types as MD11 replacements (A340 deliveries were beginning back then also)....so NW went out to the "Used-Plane" lot and grabbed lots of DC10-30s from various sources. It is important to note that NW picked up many newer DC10s (such as the ex-Thai, Korean and certain ex-Swissair birds) that are likely to stay with the NW fleet until the last of the A330s (or should I say the first of the 787s, if ordered as rumored) are delivered: I think that a couple of the NW DC-10-30s are the most advanced ER models built just before the line turned over to MD11 production.

CO did the same thing to accomplish its first big international expansion, it picked up lots of DC-10-30s on the second hand market (this is when CO cancelled it order for ten 767-324ERs).....the DC-10-30 was plentiful and cheap at that time, it was well suited for transatlantic routes, and its a workhorse....many of the DC10s acquired by CO and NW were ONLY about 12-15 years old when acquired so they had many years of flying left on them.
 
stirling
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Wed May 04, 2005 11:59 pm

Refresher-Course please on the differences between the -40 and -30?
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azjubilee
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 12:10 am

The only difference between the -30 and -40 ar the engines. The -30 uses GE and the -40 uses the Pratts.


AZJ
 
PhilSquares
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 12:19 am

In addition to the GE on the -30, the -40 had a very different flap selection/retraction mechanism. The -30 had a "dial a flap" setting for takeoff while the -40 has flaps 19 (IIRC). This was for fleet standardization. The "Rube Goldberg" device was too expensive to put on the -30 and certify.
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supa7E7
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 12:39 am

What is the effective range of NW's DC-10-30(ER)? Was PDX-NRT pretty much its maximum? How about cargo performance?
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CV990
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 1:42 am

Hi!

Thanks for the feedback!

Titch - Thanks a lot for the list of the DC-10-30's NW is using, that's great!

Dutchjet - Very good information that you shared, I also think NW did a great move on that and now I can fully understand why they still have them! By the way AMS must be one of the paradises to see the good old DC-10 besides maybe Detroit and Minneapolis.

Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
RogerThat
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 2:50 am

Don't forget Memphis DC10 lovers


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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 7:45 am

MSP still sees a lot of NW DC-10 action, and of course AMS sees a lot.
DTW has had little of the DC-10's in the past year due to all the A330's flying Trans-Atlantic. However, DTW will see 3 daily DC-10's this summer, the most in while since the 5th AMS flight along with FCO & LGW will be DC-10 in May.

NW was very selective in its choice of 2nd hand DC-10-30's hence why they came from a variety of sources.

SFO-NRT was pushing the limits of the DC-10-30, especially westbound with the winds at over 5,100 miles. This flight operated as a 742, then was down-gauged to a DC-10 before switching over to an A330-200.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: NW DC-10-30�s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 10:45 am

How old is the DC-10 fleet then?
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DC10GUY
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 2:30 pm

I have always wondered where the ex-KLM 10's ended up. Thanks. The DC10 is the greatest aircraft of all time. .... ( you may begin arguing now )
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Titch
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 5:45 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 13):
How old is the DC-10 fleet then?

If you mean the entire operational DC10 fleet, I believe the figures show that the average age is just under 26 years old.

As for Northwest's fleet, the average age is just over 26 years old. Pretty much an even spread.

If you're after individual ages for each of NW's aircraft, check out the table I posted in Reply #4.

Quoting DC10GUY (Reply 14):
I have always wondered where the ex-KLM 10's ended up

PH-DTA (c/n 46550) - ended up with Continental Airlines as N12089, now retired
PH-DTB (c/n 46551) - active with Northwest as N229NW
PH-DTC (c/n 46552) - active with Northwest as N230NW
PH-DTD (c/n 46553) - ended up with Continental Airlines as N14090, now retired
PH-DTE (c/n 46554) - last noted as being operated by Ghana Airways as 9G-PHN, now parked at FCO
PH-DTF (c/n 46555) - ended up with American Airlines as N143AA, now retired
PH-DTH (c/n 46557) - ended up with VIASA as YV-138C, now retired
PH-DTL (c/n 46952) - ended up with Africa One as 5X-ONE, now retired

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Titch
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Bluewave 707
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 6:26 pm

HNL is another place to see NW's DC-10-30s from Japan and SEA.
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jetjack74
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 8:23 pm

Quoting Titch (Reply 4):
N244NW c/n 48316 delivered to KOREAN AIR (29-Jul-88)

Ship 1244 came from JAS when NW bought it
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 8:38 pm

Quoting Titch (Reply 15):
PH-DTC (c/n 46552) - active with Northwest as N230NW

Good grief! I flew on this plane in February 1994 and it was a rickety old thing then (probably my worst long-haul flight). I hate to think what shape it's in 11 years later...
 
Titch
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 8:54 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
Ship 1244 came from JAS when NW bought it

Correct, but it was originally delivered to Korean Air - that's what I was getting at in Reply #4. It was bought by Mitsui & Co in 1989, who then leased it to JAS. The aircraft was returned to Mitsui in April 2000 and Northwest purchased it the same month.


Cheers,
Titch
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supa7E7
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 10:43 pm

Indeed the recent SFO-NRT was pretty kickass for such an old, outdated plane! I love seeing stuff like that. This summer's DTW-FCO is another proud, if ludicrous, use of the DC-10.
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azjubilee
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Thu May 05, 2005 10:50 pm

SEA-AMS switches on 6/1/05 and DTW-FCO switches to a 330 on 8/1/05. Deliveries start again this month. It's not a ludicrous use, it's just a stopgap measure. There aren't enough 330s right now to fly the summer schedule to Europe. There will be less and less DC10s as more and more 330s are delivered. These changovers don't happen overnight kids.


AZJ
 
Tg 747-300
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Fri May 06, 2005 1:33 am

Since we have so much NW dc10 knowledge around right now, I'll post a little off topic question.

Ypu think it will be posible to catch a Dc10 to and from europe in dec05/jan06? And hopfully without spending too many bucks?

Will be something like MYR-XXX-XXX-OSL and back.

I so much want a last dc10 flight

tg 747-300
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dutchjet
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Fri May 06, 2005 1:54 am

Quoting Tg 747-300 (Reply 22):
Since we have so much NW dc10 knowledge around right now, I'll post a little off topic question.

Ypu think it will be posible to catch a Dc10 to and from europe in dec05/jan06? And hopfully without spending too many bucks?

Will be something like MYR-XXX-XXX-OSL and back.

I so much want a last dc10 flight

tg 747-300

DC10s should be still be operating some transatlantic flights this winter - look at the NW schedules out of MSP (none of the MSP originating flights use the A330s yet as far as I know) even if its a bit out of the way for your routing. Another possibility is the IAD-AMS flight which I think operates with a DC10.....or try the MEM-AMS flight (which NW took over a couple of seasons ago) which could be the most convient routing. MYR could be a problem but there are other nearby airports.....think about flying in the super low season, the first 2 weeks in Dec (before the holidays) and most of January when the fares are at there lowest.
 
redflyer
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Fri May 06, 2005 2:20 am

Interesting thread. I flew NW flight 32, tail number 229, on Sunday night/Monday morning. I knew she was an old bird from a previous post I had in Tech Ops. Unfortunately, my experience on her was not too good. After a delay because of "unscheduled maintenance", wherein she was towed to the maintenance hangar, she was brought back to the gate under her own power. We finally took off four hours behind schedule. Unfortunately, 30 minutes into the flight at cruise altitude the captain announced the original problem had manifested itself again and that he was returning to DTW. We dumped fuel over Lake Erie (awsome sight to see the huge vapor trails form just aft of the fuel dump pipe) and landed uneventfully.

The captain alluded to the problem being related to "ducting". Not sure if it was related to the de-ice system but before we departed the gate originally, we sat on the tarmac for 20 minutes while the engines were run at above idle-speed.

Any of you DC10 nuts have the inside information on what the problem was or might have been?

Regardless of my experience, I'd fly those old NW 10s anytime. 229 was in immaculate condition and other than the "groovy" ceiling lights (c. 1970s), I don't think the flying public would have a clue as to how old the plane is.
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azjubilee
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Fri May 06, 2005 3:04 am

Mx issues happen to new planes too... they're big machines with tons of moving parts. There was a 330 to AMS delayed the other night due to mx as well.



AZJ
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Fri May 06, 2005 3:29 am

1229 was still in DTW yesterday undergoing mx. I saw them taxi her down to near the approach end of 27L I suppose for engine runs the other day. We were taxiing out and them climbing out going to RST. I wondered what happened...will have to check out that post.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Fri May 06, 2005 3:48 am

IAD-AMS is operated by KLM
 
redflyer
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RE: NW DC-10-30�s Origins.

Fri May 06, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 25):
Mx issues happen to new planes too... they're big machines with tons of moving parts. There was a 330 to AMS delayed the other night due to mx as well.

Good point and I'm well aware of that. I was just commenting that my personal experience on a NW 10 was not a good one from a service delivery standpoint.

And speaking of service, I was quite impressed with NWs staff and how they dealt with all of the inconvenienced passengers. Truly a class act, end-to-end. I even sent a letter off to them complimenting them on their handling of the situation.
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jetjack74
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RE: NW DC-10-30´s Origins.

Fri May 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Quoting Titch (Reply 19):
Correct, but it was originally delivered to Korean Air -

Fair enough. I just read it in a book.
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