dalecary
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QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:13 am

According to this article they are in very advanced stages with both manufacturers to order one /both of the 787/350. Announcement likely before Le Bourget, which may tip the balance in Boeing's favour. Heard as recently as last week that QR were unlikely to announce this year, so this is a bit of a surprise. Boeing has accommodated QR with 789 EIS going from 2012 to Q4 2010. With EK likely to go 350, I guess Boeing won't want to lose this one, even though QR has been a very loyal Airbus customer so far, and has a habit of making big order announcements at airshows.

CORRECTED - Qatar Airways says in Boeing, Airbus talks
Wed May 4, 2005 09:57 AM ET
In DUBAI story headlined "Qatar Airways says in Boeing, Airbus talks", please read in paragraph five ... following its $5.1 billion order... instead of following its $5.1 order (corrects value of order)

A corrected version follows:

By Samia Nakhoul

DUBAI, May 4 (Reuters) - Rapidly-growing Qatar Airways is in "advanced discussions" with Airbus (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) and Boeing Co (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) to purchase new aircraft but wants certain demands to be met before concluding a deal, an airline official said on Wednesday.

"It is a strategic decision and the company will not rush to take any decision before receiving all the answers. We are negotiating on Boeing 7E7 and Airbus A350," Chief Executive Officer Akbar al Baker told a news conference in Dubai.

"We're in an advanced stage of discussions with both manufacturers and hope to conclude a deal with both or one of the two before the Paris (air) show...

"We made requests and asked for guarantees and we are waiting that they are adequately addressed by both," said Baker who was speaking on the sidelines of the three-day Arabian Travel Market fair held in Dubai. He did not elaborate.

Baker said the airline's 40 all-Airbus fleet would double in the next few years, following its $5.1 billion order of 18 Airbus planes and 16 options during the Paris Air Show two years ago. Qatar Airways aims to have 110 to 120 aircraft in 2012-2013.

The airline is one of the launch customers of the double-decker A380 with four aircraft on order to be delivered as of 2009.

He said high fuel prices have failed to dent expansion plans of gas-rich Qatar for the flag carrier.

"Jet fuel is affecting everybody, not only Qatar Airways or others. We pay a fuel rate which is equal to everybody else ... We are not subsidised and banks will vouch for that because they see our accounts."

He said fuel accounted for 30 percent of the airline's total costs compared to 23 percent last year.

"We have suffered $68 million above our budget in 2004-2005. This year we are expecting close to $100 million above budget ... This had a huge impact," he added.

Baker dismissed speculation that a recent suicide bomb attack in Doha against a theatre popular with Westerners would damage the Gulf Arab state's tourism and its airline.

"This is an isolated incident that could happen anywhere in the world ... My country is very safe. Qatar Airways has grown and people are still coming and hotels are full. The appetite for travel does not get dictated by an isolated incident."

Baker said new routes opened this week to North Africa increased Qatar Airways' destinations to 62.

Baker said Qatar Airways was still in the red and would continue to lose money until it consolidates its growth but that its parent group made profit last year. He declined to give figures.


© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:15 am

Ordering two different airplane types from two different manufacturers for one role? I'd bet this one goes to Airbus.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
NYC777
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:23 am

I have a feeling that this one will go to Boeing, that 's why they bought up the delivery date to 2010.  pray 
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DLKAPA
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:25 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):
I have a feeling that this one will go to Boeing, that 's why they bought up the delivery date to 2010

Good point.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Danny
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:27 am

Quoting Dalecary (Thread starter):
Announcement likely before Le Bourget, which may tip the balance in Boeing's favour.

I would say the opposite. It is Airbus tradition to announce large orders at aviation fairs.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:29 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 4):

I would say the opposite. It is Airbus tradition to announce large orders at aviation fairs.

If there aren't any A350 orders announced at Le Bourget this year, then I think the only A announcement from the place will be "Cancelled"
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
dalecary
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:30 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 4):
Quoting Dalecary (Thread starter):
Announcement likely before Le Bourget, which may tip the balance in Boeing's favour.

Ahh can you read; I said before Le Bourget and not during Le Bourget. The sooner this decision is made the more it favours Boeing IMO. A delayed decision as I heard was probable last week was good news for the 350
 
Danny
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 6):
Ahh can you read

Apologies - English is not my native language. In this case yes - slight more probability for B.
 
kl911
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:36 am

Why would they go for Boeing when the have an all Airbus fleet? That would increase their costs even more, as in training, spare parts, maintenance..

KL911
 
DLKAPA
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:38 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 8):
Why would they go for Boeing when the have an all Airbus fleet? That would increase their costs even more, as in training, spare parts, maintenance..

The cost savings the aircraft provides could easily be enough to offset that over time.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
atmx2000
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:44 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 8):
Why would they go for Boeing when the have an all Airbus fleet? That would increase their costs even more, as in training, spare parts, maintenance..

Well, presumably they would switch because they either find the deal very compelling or because they find the deal compelling and want to diversify their supplier base. And perhaps the 789 operating cost reductions for fuel and maintenance would offset the advantages of staying all Airbus. Also this is a very large order which would introduce a very large number of either aircraft type, which would allow costs to be spread over a large fleet.
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DLKAPA
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:45 am

Really I'd say that if Emirates doesn't go for the A350, the program is as good as dead.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:46 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 8):
Why would they go for Boeing when the have an all Airbus fleet? That would increase their costs even more, as in training, spare parts, maintenance..

The A350 is a new type that will not be in common with existing Airbus types... that's hardly a slam dunk for "commonality." An order for 60 would benefit from economics of scale... so the 787 would be at no such disadvantage.

Quoting Dalecary (Thread starter):
Boeing has accommodated QR with 789 EIS going from 2012 to Q4 2010.

Moving the -9 closer to 2010 very much helps Boeing's case. Because of this move, I'd put Boeing ahead in this order.
 
COTXDFW777AA
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 9):
Why would they go for Boeing when the have an all Airbus fleet? That would increase their costs even more, as in training, spare parts, maintenance..

As discussed when you are ordering 50 aircraft the fleet is large enough to not have commonality be an issue. The same issue was argued for the AC order but look how that turned out. I think Boeing will take this one also.
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DLKAPA
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:50 am

Quoting CoTXDFW777AA (Reply 13):

I didn't say that. I was the one who rebutted that statement  Wink
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Danny
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 10:18 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 10):
Well, presumably they would switch because they either find the deal very compelling or because they find the deal compelling and want to diversify their supplier base.

Diversify? That is not what airlines are doing right now. Let me ask you from the other way - should Continental buy some Airbuses to diversify supplier base???
 
DLKAPA
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 10:20 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 15):
should Continental buy some Airbuses to diversify supplier base???

From a purely business standpoint, that can actually have it's advantages. What would happen for business if Boeing had to issue a massive recall/grounding of their airplanes? CO would be pretty well screwed.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
jacobin777
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 10:33 am

I put 90% probability of EK going with Airbus, and a 75% probability of QR going with Airbus too...ever been to the middle east airports? One would think one is at an Airbus factory... heck..maybe the Arab states should just gulp up the company..... biggrin 
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DLKAPA
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 am

Dubai and Qatar are the new bases for "Airbus Arabia"
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atmx2000
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 11:02 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 15):
Diversify? That is not what airlines are doing right now. Let me ask you from the other way - should Continental buy some Airbuses to diversify supplier base???

Fine, then it would be the first reason, that they find the deal very compelling, due to the price, guarantees and other provisions included and due to specified performance, capability and operating costs of the 787. Diversification was only a reason to choose Boeing over Airbus if the deal was less than extravagant.
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QFA001
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 6:59 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 12):
The A350 is a new type that will not be in common with existing Airbus types...

FWIW, Revo, I have heard a number that resembles that less than a third of the A350 will be common with the A330. Whilst I would take this with a grain of salt, I can also see that that could be the utter truth of it.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 12):
Moving the -9 closer to 2010 very much helps Boeing's case. Because of this move, I'd put Boeing ahead in this order.

Also, QR is being offered 2009 slots. So, Boeing can deliver -8s to QR prior to Airbus being able to ship A350s. QR might see that as an advantage as I don't believe that EK has access to 2009 B787 slots...
 
Jet-lagged
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 7:40 pm

Isn't it Qatar that wants the 787-9 to be a bit larger? Since the Air Canada announcement didn't mention any increase in planned 787-9, I assume it won't happen, and this one will go to Airbus.
 
QFA001
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 7:48 pm

Quoting Jet-lagged (Reply 21):
Isn't it Qatar that wants the 787-9 to be a bit larger?

No, sir. That is EK. QR was the airline that wanted 2010 deliveries of the -9.

Quote:
Since the Air Canada announcement didn't mention any increase in planned 787-9, I assume it won't happen, and this one will go to Airbus.

QR has got their wish: the -9 will be available in 4Q'10. Anyway, Boeing has said that they'd consider making the -9 one or two rows longer.
 
Jet-lagged
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 8:02 pm

QFA001
Thanks for correcting me.

Hmmm, I still lean to Airbus on this one, though.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Thu May 05, 2005 9:32 pm

Quoting Jet-lagged (Reply 21):
Isn't it Qatar that wants the 787-9 to be a bit larger? Since the Air Canada announcement didn't mention any increase in planned 787-9, I assume it won't happen, and this one will go to Airbus.

An All Airbus customer going Boeing? Not likely. I think this deal is Airbus' to lose, not Boeings to win.
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DeltaWings
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RE: QR To Order 787/350 Or Both Soon

Fri May 06, 2005 12:20 am

What exactly does QR want to replace with the 787/A350? I know they have a number of A300s. Would they consider the 788 as a replacement? I dont exactly see, why they need the 789. They have about 25 A332s, or are these already ment to go aswell?


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