dandy_don
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue May 02, 2000 11:13 am

Single-engine Airliner?

Fri May 06, 2005 2:32 pm

Given the reliablity of today's jet engines do you think we will ever see a single-engine jet airliner? What sorts of designs do you think would be possible?
 
flyKiWi
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 9:30 pm

RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Fri May 06, 2005 2:33 pm

I highly doubt it; an engine failure - even if it's highly unprobable - must be accounted for.
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" -Gandhi
 
jwenting
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RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Fri May 06, 2005 2:38 pm

Technically it's possible for shorthaul aircraft no doubt.
I could envision an aircraft the size of a DC-9 or 737 with a single 777 engine in the tail similar to a DC-10 for example.

But it's not legal. Aviation law requires an airliner to have at least 2 engines.
Nor would it possibly be cheaper as such a setup would increase maintenance cost for the engine a lot, possibly to the point where a design with 2 small engines under the wing is so much cheaper to maintain it's cheaper overall over its service life.
I wish I were flying
 
Gemuser
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RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Fri May 06, 2005 2:39 pm

For a number of reasons you cannot operate a single engined aircraft on an AIRLINE flight. The details vary from country to country, but generally it cant be done.
It was possible in Oz in the 1970 and thereabouts under a regulation exemption, but as far as I know thhese have all been witdraw and no more are being issued.


Gemuser
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Ralgha
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RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Fri May 06, 2005 2:39 pm

What do you consider an airliner? There used to be an airline operating in the Northwest that flew Cessna Caravans.
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dandy_don
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue May 02, 2000 11:13 am

RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Fri May 06, 2005 2:49 pm

My original question refers to a potential single engine JET airliner.

I was not aware that laws prohibit a single-engine airliner.

Is there data to suggest a multi-engine plane is safer than a single-engine plane? I believe in the private plane world single-engine planes are actually safer than their multi-engine counterparts.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Fri May 06, 2005 2:51 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 2):
But it's not legal. Aviation law requires an airliner to have at least 2 engines.

Please cite this...as Ralgha points out, the Caravan is used all over the world in feeder services, and Im sure there are a bunch more singles (PC-12 I think could be one?) that others will come up with that are flown in scheduled airline service...

I'm sure SANSA and other single engine scheduled operators are mortified that they've been illegally operating under your laws for years now...


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fixplanes2
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:37 am

RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Fri May 06, 2005 3:15 pm

Some years ago I believe Boeing had a "concept" of a one pilot(?) airplane. I think they were even suggesting it did not really need a trained pilot. The artist concept drawing I saw showed a "flight persons" desk in the nose of the airplane. Kind of like a keyboard/joystick office desk for one person.

And as I recall they knew the traveling public would never get on the thing.

Must remember, the traveling public still associates flying with death. And that is why (already) some traveler are saying they are not interested in A380 travel. They would prefer the airline fly 2 smaller airplanes per trip than one big plane per trip...to cut their crash odds in half.
 
mrocktor
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:57 am

RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Fri May 06, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting Fixplanes2 (Reply 7):
They would prefer the airline fly 2 smaller airplanes per trip than one big plane per trip...to cut their crash odds in half.

Well thats mob stupidity for you... by doing twice as many take offs and landings they would be practically doubling their crash odds Big grin
 
Ralgha
Posts: 1589
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 1999 6:20 pm

RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Fri May 06, 2005 11:46 pm

Quote:
My original question refers to a potential single engine JET airliner.

The caravan is a jet. Turboprops are jet engines that drive a prop.
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DIJKKIJK
Posts: 1785
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RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Fri May 06, 2005 11:51 pm

How about the AN-2 ?



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Glom
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RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Sat May 07, 2005 12:48 am

Your typical honkin' airliner is limited in its option in the event of total engine failure. General aviation aircraft, even Cessna Caravans, can still be landed safely in a field so you have that safety factor there. The prospects aren't so good for honkin' airliners so a pair of engines would be useful.

There is a restriction issue as well for urban airports. London City does not accept single engine aircraft because an EFATO would end with an unfortunate encounter with Canary Wharf.
 
Vorticity
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 9:09 am

RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Sat May 07, 2005 12:53 am

It's a difficult problem, Visionaire tried it in the 90's with the Vantage, a private jet, http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=382. Small companies run into problems unfortunately. It's sad really, the factory was going to be in my home town, but now it's a lost cause. Wish I had a picture of it, I feel l'm one of the few that remembers it ever existed.
Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
 
AeroVodochody
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Sat May 07, 2005 7:09 am

It's certainly possible, but:
1.) If you had an engine failure you'd be screwed.(which is why BA wouldn't buy it  Smile)
2.) People would probably be scared to fly it for that reason.
Try not to be jealous, we can't all be Czech.
 
Areopagus
Posts: 1327
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 12:31 pm

RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Sat May 07, 2005 7:25 am

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 6):
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 2):
But it's not legal. Aviation law requires an airliner to have at least 2 engines.

Please cite this...as Ralgha points out, the Caravan is used all over the world in feeder services

I don't have a reg for you, but it is always cited as the factor that ended the salability of the Northrop Gamma. Googling "Northrop Gamma" led me to a web page that states:

While with Douglas, Northrop modified the Alpha and built the Gamma, Beta, and Delta. Only 60 Gammas were sold, but these airplanes fulfilled many missions and were successful as export planes. Their market was limited, though, when the Civil Aeronautics Authority forbade the use of single-engine planes on scheduled passenger flights.

This happened in the 1930s.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8590
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Single-engine Airliner?

Sat May 07, 2005 7:29 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 2):
I could envision an aircraft the size of a DC-9 or 737 with a single 777 engine in the tail similar to a DC-10 for example.

Actually... a 787 engine would be more than adequet. The biggest CFM56-7 variants put out roughly 28,000 lbf, two of which have a combine thrust of 56,000 lbf. That's on par with the derated 787-3 engine.

Quoting Dandy_don (Reply 5):
Is there data to suggest a multi-engine plane is safer than a single-engine plane?

General aviation can't be compared to commercial aviation, and no single-engine commercial aircraft exist.... so I would expect no such data exist.

I'm not so much concerned with ETOPS or anything, but most engine failures are during take-off and climb, just when you need power the most. That's why you need at least two engines.

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