dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

A350: Supplement Or Replace The A330/342/343?

Mon May 09, 2005 2:17 am

There is a lot of discussion about the A350 at the moment, mainly because it seems that EK will soon annouce whether its going with the A350 or 787. I have a rather simple question: while its clear that the 787 will replace the 767 in Boeing's lineup, what is Airbus' intent with the A350? Will the A358/359 replace the A332/333/342/343 in Airbus' model lineup or will it simply be offered as an additional type? It will be interesting to see how Airbus transitions to the new A350 models.

From what we are hearing about the size of the A359 (the rumors that EK inisits that Airbus "super-sizes" the A359), wouldnt the A359 make the A343/A333 models obsolete? And if the A358 comes in at roughly the same size as the 788, wouldnt the A358 effectively replace the A332.....especially if Airbus is forced to sell the A358 at A332 prices? (I assume this will be the case, as the 787 is being marketed for roughly 767 prices.)

Is Airbus going to find itself in a difficult situation? Aside from taking on the risk of launching another new type, will the A350 make the very capable and very profitable A330 family suddenly obsolete?
 
Rj111
Posts: 3007
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:02 am

RE: A350: Supplement Or Replace The A330/342/343?

Mon May 09, 2005 2:30 am

The A358 is identical in fuselage dimensions to the A332/A342 and the A359 identical to the A3333/A343. There will however be a few more rows at the rear of the cabin as it is being redesigned to offer more space.
 
DeltaWings
Posts: 1234
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:06 am

RE: A350: Supplement Or Replace The A330/342/343?

Mon May 09, 2005 2:54 am

Its quite clear that the A330 will most likely be replaced by the A350. And so will the A342 an A343. However, I wonder if down the line Airbus will eventually replace the A345 and A346 with the A350 (A350-500/600) line- it would be a logial thing to do if the quad market for that size is dieing out. Then Airbus would close down the A330/A340 line.

~DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8576
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: A350: Supplement Or Replace The A330/342/343?

Mon May 09, 2005 3:53 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 1):
There will however be a few more rows at the rear of the cabin as it is being redesigned to offer more space.

Are there additional rows, or has the taper been removed so that the last few rows are full 2+4+2 rather than 2+3+2 ?

Quoting Dutchjet (Thread starter):
From what we are hearing about the size of the A359 (the rumors that EK inisits that Airbus "super-sizes" the A359), wouldnt the A359 make the A343/A333 models obsolete?

Yes... the A330-200/300 and A340-300 are as good as dead. Boeing's tippy-toeing into some dangerous territory of their own with the 787-9, which may be large enough that airlines opt for it over the 772ER.
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: A350: Supplement Or Replace The A330/342/343?

Mon May 09, 2005 5:18 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 3):
Yes... the A330-200/300 and A340-300 are as good as dead. Boeing's tippy-toeing into some dangerous territory of their own with the 787-9, which may be large enough that airlines opt for it over the 772ER.

It's not clear that the A350's economics will be superior to all of the above for all missions. Also I don't think Boeing will stretch the 787-9 to ~280pax, as it will leave too large of gap in capacity that will be difficult to fill without having models spaced too closely.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8576
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: A350: Supplement Or Replace The A330/342/343?

Mon May 09, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 4):
Also I don't think Boeing will stretch the 787-9 to ~280pax, as it will leave too large of gap in capacity that will be difficult to fill without having models spaced too closely.

The gap between the 788 (220 pax) and 789 (260 pax) is right on target for the 20% stretch typical of widebodes, but both aircraft are larger than the Boeing-quouted capacity implies. The -9 is much bigger than the 764ER/A332, and in terms of usable floor area, closer to the A359 than the A359 is to the 772ER.

Once you factor in the capability of comfortable 9-abreast economy and overhead crew rest, you've leveled par with "larger" aircraft very quickly.
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: A350: Supplement Or Replace The A330/342/343?

Mon May 09, 2005 7:13 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 5):
The -9 is much bigger than the 764ER/A332, and in terms of usable floor area, closer to the A359 than the A359 is to the 772ER.

I've seen this claimed before, but I haven't seen the numbers. And what determines usable floor area? Does it simply include all cabin floor area, or does it include adjustments for less usability of space near the walls due to greater fuselage curvature in the A330 at seated passenger levels
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8576
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: A350: Supplement Or Replace The A330/342/343?

Mon May 09, 2005 7:19 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):
does it include adjustments for less usability of space near the walls due to greater fuselage curvature in the A330 at seated passenger levels

More or less... also includes the taper some aircraft have toward the rear, etc. I don't have any numbers either, so I'm simply relaying the claims of others... who are significantly more astute than I.
 
na
Posts: 9161
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: A350: Supplement Or Replace The A330/342/343?

Mon May 09, 2005 7:22 am

Sadly here is another twinjet (A350) that besides the obvious A330 makes a quad (A343) obsolete.
I´m afraid, and very upset, that the airline-industry puts us on a one-way route to a boring (almost)-all twinjet world. The great A380/747 Adv. excluded (the IL-96 hardly counts).