gg190
Posts: 158
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Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 3:15 am

One of my civil aviation books contains a picture of an Airbus 340-200 in the old (Orange & Gold) Continental livery. Did Continental ever operate an A340?

The image could be computer generated, or a model set against a background. If it this begs the question, if Continental did not operate the A340 did theyever plan to?
 
CLEfan
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 5:10 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 3:17 am

Continental ordered the A340, but canceled the order before taking delivery.
 
gg190
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:25 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting CLEfan (Reply 1):
Continental ordered the A340, but canceled the order before taking delivery.

Thank you that would explain it. Any idea why continental cancelled the A340? Was it because of the launch of the 777?
 
TACAA320
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 3:21 am

CO is Boeing.



---------------------------------------------------
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
B742
Posts: 3562
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 3:31 am

TACAA320, yes this was one of the reasons!

CO operates an all boeing fleet:
777-200
767-400
767-200
757-300
757-200
737-900
737-800
737-700
737-500
737-300

Although CO previously operated the A300!
Rob!
 
Newark777
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 3):
CO is Boeing.

Pretty much explains it. Fleet commonality being the main factor, wouldn't make much sense for them to be 737, 757, 767, and then A340. And now with all the MD's gone, they are completely Boeing.

EDIT: Not sure I would like the look, either.  Wink


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Harry

[Edited 2005-05-08 20:36:10]
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 3:56 am

Quoting Gg190 (Reply 2):
Was it because of the launch of the 777?

No, they went bankrupt and the A340 order was cancelled during the reorganization. After they emerged from bankruptcy, the leadership that came to power was pro-Boeing/GE and selected the 772ER for the flagship.

Over the next decade, they have been pro-activy trimming fleet types... eliminating the 747, DC-10, MD-80, A300, and others.
 
aa777jr
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 4:14 am

What happened to the above A340 with CO livery? Did Airbus sell it to another carrier?

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
rockyracoon
Posts: 1010
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 4:20 am

It's a fake dude...................




filler
 
Newark777
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 4:24 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 7):
What happened to the above A340 with CO livery? Did Airbus sell it to another carrier?

Yeah, that is from the Modified Airliners Database. Sorry for fooling you.  Wink

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 4:25 am

Quoting RockyRacoon (Reply 8):
It's a fake dude...................

The spelling of the livery on the side of the plane does look sketchy, can anyone confirm this pic as being a fake?

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 4:28 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 10):
The spelling of the livery on the side of the plane does look sketchy, can anyone confirm this pic as being a fake?

Well, it says "modified" right above the picture...

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 4:30 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 11):
Well, it says "modified" right above the picture...

I feel sheepish.  Smile
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 4:40 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 3):
CO is Boeing.

Now it is, but when the aircraft was originally ordered, CO was still operating the A300, which was a piece of junk. I think that 1. the experience CO had with that sad aircraft and 2. the fact that a Boeing man took over the reins of the company in '94, was the end, for a long time, of any Airbus product being in the CO fleet.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
srbmod
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 4:42 am

Blame Francisco Lorenzo for the A300s, as he plundered most of them from Eastern, and from what I have heard, EAL's a/c were pretty well trashed, the L-1011 and A300 being among the worst.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 4:55 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 4):
Although CO previously operated the A300!

That they got from Eastern

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 5):
Fleet commonality being the main factor, wouldn't make much sense for them to be 737, 757, 767, and then A340.

Actually, they did not have 767s at the time, only DC-10s and 747s for long haul. Also, commonality would not have been an issue as the 777 does not have commonality with other Boeing aircraft

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 10):
The spelling of the livery on the side of the plane does look sketchy, can anyone confirm this pic as being a fake?

Modified Airliner Photos is a database where people who are good with Photo Shop take airliners and put them in alternate liveries to answer "what if" questions. The best of them goes by the A.net user name Mikephotos and actually had his own site for a while

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
CO was still operating the A300, which was a piece of junk. I

It wasn't the plane's fault or Eastern's early use of them that was really the problem. The main issue with the A300 was that when it would have a tech issue, CO did not have parts at the station to fix them. They were so bad at allocating parts for the bird that some airports that saw it all the time had few if any parts for the aircraft and ones that saw it maybe once a year had loads. That meant the plane could not go anywhere. Since the only other A300 operators at the time were PanAm II (who went away rather fast) and AA (who usually had their A300s in different parts of the country, though they did fly into LAX for a while, and their's were A300-600s and not B4s like CO's), CO screwed themselves with the plane.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Airlinerfreak
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 5:20 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 12):
I feel sheepish

I got news for you, you are sheepish.
I think that Mr. Berthune was smart in not taking delivery on those A340's. It's great that CO is supporting and showing its support for America in buying Boeing products.
 
DeltaWings
Posts: 1234
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:06 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 5:37 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
though they did fly into LAX for a while, and their's were A300-600s and not B4s like CO's), CO screwed themselves with the plane.

Wait a minute- the A300-600 is actually the A300B4-600(R), so youre statement doesnt make sense there , unless you mean CO had the A300B4-100/200?


~DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 16):
It's great that CO is supporting and showing its support for America in buying Boeing products.

You sound like Libturdslayer there.

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 16):
I think that Mr. Berthune was smart in not taking delivery on those A340's.

Gordon Bethune (no r) was an executive at Boeing, so there is no doubt where his preferences lie

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 17):
Wait a minute- the A300-600 is actually the A300B4-600(R), so youre statement doesnt make sense there , unless you mean CO had the A300B4-100/200?

Yeah, yeah, that is what I meant. Given that the colloquial thing to say is A300-600 or AB6 and A300B4 or AB4, I assumed everyone would get that. They usually do.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 17):

Wait a minute- the A300-600 is actually the A300B4-600(R), so youre statement doesnt make sense there , unless you mean CO had the A300B4-100/200?


~DeltaWings

CO did have the A300B4-100/200, all ex Eastern, all early build models.

CO actually ordered a mix of A333s and A343s for their route system back then, A333 with the Atlantic in mind and the A343 with the Pacific in mind - as discussed, none of these aircraft were ever delivered as the orders were cancelled in the bankruptcy proceeding. When CO got back on track and began expanding on longhaul routes, they went on their used DC10-30 buying spree (the DC10-30s were cheap and plentiful at the time) and, as stated above, under Gordon's direction, settled on an all Boeing fleet. CO has just about totally refreshed its fleet since the Texas Air days, only the 737-3T0s remain from that era.

Around the time that CO signed up for the A330/340 program, NW also signed up for the A330/340 and that order was delayed, modified, revised and extended about a million times and was finally converted into an order for the A319 plus the A330s that NW is now finally accepting delivery of. TW also ordered 10 A333 with RR engines as an L1011 replacement....that order was also delayed and revised numerous times and was converted into TW's commitment for the A318 but time ran out for TW and the A318s were never delivered.
 
KC135R
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 6:38 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Also, commonality would not have been an issue as the 777 does not have commonality with other Boeing aircraft

Except it does have a common type rating to the 764, which - of course - CO also operates.

Or does it? This website implies it does, in the Aircraft data section - but I can't (as yet) verify that to be true. I know it looks the same, intentionally, and I know the 764 is still the same type rating as previous 767's and 757's - is that all there is too it?



[Edited 2005-05-08 23:10:35]
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting KC135R (Reply 20):
Except it does have a common type rating to the 764, which - of course - CO also operates.

No it does not. The 777 and 767 are on different type certificates. They have similar cockpit readouts, but that does not mean they have common type ratings. If that were true, 737NGs would have the same type rating as the 777. CO flies their 757s and 767s (both -200ER and -400ER) as a common fleet because they actually do have a common type rating and can be flown by the same pilots.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
columba
Posts: 5045
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 16):
It's great that CO is supporting and showing its support for America in buying Boeing products.

Well then I don´t want to hear you complain if Iberia or another European carrier choose Airbus instead of Boeing.  Yeah sure
I think an airline should order the aircraft which suits its needs the best and is the best bargain.
Besides there are also a large number of American build parts in an Airbus (i.g.Avionics, engines etc...) as well as there are a lot of European parts in a Boeing.

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 5):
Not sure I would like the look, either.

I think it looks awesome.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
KC135R
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 6:38 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
No it does not. The 777 and 767 are on different type certificates. They have similar cockpit readouts, but that does not mean they have common type ratings. If that were true, 737NGs would have the same type rating as the 777. CO flies their 757s and 767s (both -200ER and -400ER) as a common fleet because they actually do have a common type rating and can be flown by the same pilots.

Yeah, I see that now and had edited my post before you replied. The description on this website is worded funny and I misread it. Sorry!  

Inside, the 767-400ER features a 777 style advanced flightdeck with six colour multifunction displays, which can present information in the same format as earlier 767s, allowing a common type certificate, or as for the 777 and Next Generation 737s.

It shares commonality with older 767/757's but not the 737NG or 777 - but information can be presented the same I guess. At first glance, because it starts off saying "features 777 style..." I thought that is what they meant.

You know, if it did share commonality, is there any chance the 764 would have fared better? Or was the 764 too little too late no matter what?

[Edited 2005-05-08 23:10:00]
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 6:09 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 22):
I think it looks awesome.

Beauty's in the eye of the beholder.  Wink

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 6:11 am

Quoting KC135R (Reply 23):
At first glance, because it starts off saying "features 777 style..." I thought that is what they meant.

Well there is a difference between style and substance, you really only get both on the 747  wink 
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
avek00
Posts: 3157
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 16):
I think that Mr. Berthune was smart in not taking delivery on those A340's.

..Problem is, the A340 cancellation came BEFORE the Great Leader Gordon Bethune arrived at the Most Wonderful Continental Airlines.

[Edited 2005-05-08 23:16:22]
Live life to the fullest.
 
gg190
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:25 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 6:57 am

Was the BAe 146 ever operated by Continental (or Continental express)?

I have a drawing in a book (Different one to the one containing the 340!) of a 146-200 wearing Continental express colours. Again it is the old Orange & gold scheme.

Was this another cancelled order due to the bankruptcy?
 
Rj111
Posts: 3007
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 7:02 am

I think we have the same book Gg190, i forget the name but basically it has all the major airliners with a drawing and a picture. It start with the A300, one in AZ and one for EA and then on the next page a AI and LH A310?
 
gg190
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:25 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 7:06 am

It's entitled "The Modern Civil Aircraft Guide" each aircraft has a double page spread, with a top view drawing, side view drawing and head-on drawing. But there are no actual pictures. So I don't think it can be the same one!  Smile
 
mdundon
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:52 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 7:56 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 22):
Well then I don´t want to hear you complain if Iberia or another European carrier choose Airbus instead of Boeing. Yeah sure

Are you implying (or admitting) that some orders for Arbii are politicized? The politicization of Airbus orders was brought up in the last years of the Reagan Administration (i.e. a long time ago) which was always denied by Europe and Airbus....

Regards,

Michael
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 8:00 am

Quoting Gg190 (Reply 27):
Was the BAe 146 ever operated by Continental (or Continental express)?

Yep, operated by Presidential for CO


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Falcon84
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 8:14 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
That they got from Eastern

They got SOME of theirs from EA. They operated their own before getting the EA birds.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 32):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
That they got from Eastern

They got SOME of theirs from EA. They operated their own before getting the EA birds.

Actually, didn't they take EA's birds first then take on the rest of EA's order later?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
NWADC9
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 9:41 am

Quoting Airlinerfreak (Reply 16):
Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 12):
I feel sheepish

I got news for you, you are sheepish.

Sounds like GKirk Wink

Continental and Northwest both ordered the A340, then Continental cancelled their order, and Northwest converted their order to A319's and A330's.
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
monteycarlos
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 3):
CO is Boeing.

Essentially thats it. Continental had/have an understanding with Boeing to buy aircraft from them. Honestly, its not a bad strategy and I'll explain below.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
No, they went bankrupt and the A340 order was cancelled during the reorganization. After they emerged from bankruptcy, the leadership that came to power was pro-Boeing/GE and selected the 772ER for the flagship.

Very true. The 777's were selected because they wanted to show that CO was new and innovative and picked the plane that most of their customers would identify with... obviously was going to be the T7!

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Gordon Bethune (no r) was an executive at Boeing, so there is no doubt where his preferences lie

Its more than just that. Sure, Gordon Bethune wasn't the biggest supporter of Airbus and definately had Boeing ties, but his prime focus throughout the whole re-shuffle of CO was to focus on the customer and the service of! What was decided was that they needed a plane (a flagship in fact) that the majority of their customers would feel comfortable travelling long-haul in. ANd since most of their customers are American, it would not be within the strategy to pick another type from a foreign source. The 777 wasn't picked solely on the basis of Gordon Bethune's links with Boeing, but on the best interests of Continentals new plan.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
bob7273757
Posts: 22
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 9:54 am

All this talk!!

I want to tell you. Most if not all of the pilot group was so thankful that Airbus DID NOT!! come onto our property! Pretty shitty plane compared to the B777.

Basically we're happy not to have any Airbus here!!!

End of Conversation!!
 
ha763
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 10:30 am

People also forget that CO also cancelled orders for the 767-300 while in bankruptcy. In fact, the some of the aircraft were built and were placed with other airlines. Some airlines with 767-300s built for CO:

North American

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Delta

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Vietnam

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First Choice

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airways6max
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 10:31 am

Continental did order the A340 at one point but cancelled their order when they hit financial troubles in the early 1990s. Since then, they have operated the Boeing 777. The 777 was more compatible with their existing fleet and it has met CO's long-haul needs.
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 10:46 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 5):
EDIT: Not sure I would like the look, either.

Amazing what Photoshop can do huh?
336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
 
columba
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 4:58 pm

Quoting Mdundon (Reply 30):
Are you implying (or admitting) that some orders for Arbii are politicized? The politicization of Airbus orders was brought up in the last years of the Reagan Administration (i.e. a long time ago) which was always denied by Europe and Airbus....

Regards,

Michael

I don´t know about that. I was refering to the post that I was quoting above were he said an American airline should only buy American build aircraft to
support America so I said if that his idea of aviation don´t expect European airlines to buy Boeing but Airbus only.
That can´t be the idea behind aviation, don´t you think ? I am glad to see as much different types on the airport as I can whether Seattle and Everett or Toulouse and Hamburg build. Too bad anyway that the days of Caravelles, Bac 1-11, Tridents, DC 9, MD 80s, 727s, 737-100, 200.....are over and now it is only A320 and 737 anyway what you can spot at most airports

P.S. There are also many American jobs connected with Airbus as they are many jobs in Europe that depends on Boeing. We live in a globalized world, e.g.
a friend of mine drives a Chrysler build in Austria and another drives a Mercedes build in Alabama
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 6:24 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 40):
I don´t know about that. I was refering to the post that I was quoting above were he said an American airline should only buy American build aircraft to
support America so I said if that his idea of aviation don´t expect European airlines to buy Boeing but Airbus only.
That can´t be the idea behind aviation, don´t you think ?

I really have the same opinion you have on this topic, but is is also clear that whenever a company makes an investment over a few billion € (or $) there is politics in it. It would be naive to state otherwise.

But to which extent political influence is taken, has to be judged as the case arises. E.g. the situation with El Al is completely different than the recent AI debacle. This "Buy American"-type of motivation with some US Carriers is again something completely different. Additionally many airlines are still state-owned to a certain extent, so that it is absolutely natural that politics are involved.

Finally politics are part of the business and in many cases part of the regional culture, but nothing one can choose, condemn or even fight against. How deeply politics are involved you can even witness on this forum by endless A vs. B threads, threads about subsidies and so on ...

Jan
 
columba
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 8:18 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 41):
I really have the same opinion you have on this topic, but is is also clear that whenever a company makes an investment over a few billion € (or $) there is politics in it. It would be naive to state otherwise.

But to which extent political influence is taken, has to be judged as the case arises. E.g. the situation with El Al is completely different than the recent AI debacle. This "Buy American"-type of motivation with some US Carriers is again something completely different. Additionally many airlines are still state-owned to a certain extent, so that it is absolutely natural that politics are involved.

Finally politics are part of the business and in many cases part of the regional culture, but nothing one can choose, condemn or even fight against. How deeply politics are involved you can even witness on this forum by endless A vs. B threads, threads about subsidies and so on ...

Jan

Well I know that an aviation deal always involves politics but I can´t stand the hypocrisy of some people here whining that Iberia or Lufthansa (who btw clearly say that they will not be dependend on only manufacturer) are buying Airbusses instead of Boeing but on the other hand always say an American company should not fly Airbus. Sorry that can be it !!!
Besides how many Americans and Europeans are driving cars build in Japan, Korea etc......
I am just saying that if you want to sell aircrafts to Europe you also should be willing to buy European Aircraft as well otherwise it would be too much a onesided deal.
Besides as I said above in times of globalization you can really say where a product is build someparts are out of China, some out of India, others again are from Germany, France, Uk and the US.

Some sidenotes to the A380 and American jobs and Airbus in the United States :

U.S. workers in more than 30 states have produced A380 parts and systems ranging from the smallest (fasteners by Textron Fastening Systems in Santa Ana, Calif.) to some of the largest (the main landing gear by Goodrich).
Airbus in the United States:

* In 2004, Airbus spent nearly $7 billion on parts, components, tooling and services with American companies. According to a U.S. Department of Commerce model, this investment translates into support for 140,000 American jobs.

* Airbus spends 46 percent of its global aircraft-related procurement budget in the U.S.

* U.S. suppliers include large and small companies. Examples: Aerostructures, Alcoa, Eaton, Electroimpact, Faber, Goodrich, GE, Honeywell, Rockwell Collins and United Technologies.

Same goes for European companies in regarding to Boeing especially the 717 was a plane with a lot of parts from Germany, but also many companies here are involved with the 73NG.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
PADSpot
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RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 9:17 pm

You seem to be very sensitive on this topic. But before we set off an useless debate about exaggerated patriotism that certainly doesn't belong into this forum; have you ever taken a look at whose post you are annoyed about? Just browsed his profile, stifle your anger and forget about it ...
 
tsnamm
Posts: 531
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 3:28 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 9:58 pm

Eastern was a launch customer for the A-300...however they inherited a number of A-300's that were supposed to go to Iran Air, and these did not have the center fuel tank, and therefore had very short range. So EA used them for the shuttle operation LGA/BOS LGA/DCA...CO had their own A-300's and later absorbed the EA A-300's after they were driven out of business...
 
mdundon
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:52 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 10:53 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 43):
You seem to be very sensitive on this topic. But before we set off an useless debate about exaggerated patriotism that certainly doesn't belong into this forum; have you ever taken a look at whose post you are annoyed about? Just browsed his profile, stifle your anger and forget about it ...

If you are referring to me, I don't know what would provoke such a foolish comment about my profile. I looked at yours and it doesn't inspire any confidence about your posts (still a student?). My background has been in aviation financing, so I know a bit about what motivates airlines to buy aircraft.

My post was to shine some light on the politicization of aircraft orders which is a fact of life in the market. Alas, it's much easier to do when the state owns the airline... Columba's posts were factual responses addressing the interdependence of the aviation market worldwide. There was nothing heated in them.

So, stifle your Teutonic arrogance and get on with a civil debate.

Regards,

Michael
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 10:54 pm

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 44):
Eastern was a launch customer for the A-300

Eastern was not a launch customer for Airbus.

To stir interest within the United States, Airbus leaders selected an American engine, built by General Electric. This did not suit the British, who withdrew from the venture in a huff. However, British expertise soon proved essential in crafting wings for the A-300, That country's firm of Hawker Siddeley was Europe's strongest company in this area, and soon joined the program.

Airbus Industrie took shape formally late in 1970. It was a consortium, an association of corporations, working under French laws governing multinational cooperative programs that relied on government financing. The A-300 first flew in October 1972. However, during the next five years it racked up only 38 orders. In Toulouse, home of Sud, 16 unsold aircraft sat along a fence outside the plant, their tails painted white and showing no airline insignia.

It was desperation time, and the desperation increased when a sale to America's Western Airlines fell through early in 1977. But Airbus had another prospect in Eastern Airlines. Its president, Frank Borman, had been urging U.S. planebuilders to build their own wide-body twinjet but had received no firm response.

Borman now turned to Airbus, arranging to borrow four A-300s for a six-month trial. He soon found that he liked them. Their reliability was excellent; better yet, they used up to one-third less fuel than the L-1011s that he was flying. In the spring of 1978, Borman agreed to purchase 23 of the new jets.

This was a breakthrough. Eastern was one of America's principal airlines; its great prestige ensured that other carriers around the world would take a fresh look at the A-300. During 1978, Airbus went on to sell a total of 69 such jets. The A-300 won new luster during 1979, the year of an oil crisis that sharply raised the price of jet fuel. As a twinjet, it was lighter in weight and used less fuel than the tri-jet L-1011 and DC-10. Having one less engine, the A-300 also was easier to maintain and less costly to purchase.


http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Aerospace/Airbus/Aero52.htm
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
columba
Posts: 5045
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 10:57 pm

Quoting Mdundon (Reply 45):
If you are referring to me, I don't know what would provoke such a foolish comment about my profile. I looked at yours and it doesn't inspire any confidence about your posts (still a student?). My background has been in aviation financing, so I know a bit about what motivates airlines to buy aircraft.

My post was to shine some light on the politicization of aircraft orders which is a fact of life in the market. Alas, it's much easier to do when the state owns the airline... Columba's posts were factual responses addressing the interdependence of the aviation market worldwide. There was nothing heated in them.

So, stifle your Teutonic arrogance and get on with a civil debate.

Regards,

Michael

He was not referring to you, he meant the post I quoted above reply 16 by airlinerfreak -who is a boy of age 13-15. But actually I looked your profile up before, too and could not see anything untill I realised that my first response was to the reply Nr.16.
No reason to start a fight here  white 

[Edited 2005-05-09 16:01:14]
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 11:00 pm

Quoting Mdundon (Reply 45):
If you are referring to me, I don't know what would provoke such a foolish comment about my profile.

No. I was not referring to you.

[Edited 2005-05-09 16:02:21]
 
mdundon
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:52 am

RE: Continental And The A340

Mon May 09, 2005 11:11 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 48):
No. I was not referring to you.

OK my German friends--I'll put away my white hot keyboard... tapedshut 

Thanks for the quick correction and I retract my statement about Jan's teutonic arrogance and apologize to him.

Regards,

Michael