cltguy
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Runway Repair at CLT: USAirways cancels 10% of flights

Mon May 09, 2005 10:41 pm

Due to runway rehab work at Charlotte (CLT) USAirways will cancel 10% of its flights on Tuesday and Wednesday. The remaining flights that are not canceled very well might suffer delays.

They are refurbing runway 36L...which will be closed at night while they redo the concrete.
 
squirrel83
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Runway Repair at CLT: USAirways cancels 10% of flights

Mon May 09, 2005 10:57 pm

Below is an article on the ordeal ~ anyone have a list of flights that will be cancled? How are they determining what flights to cancel and what flights are a go?


Our news partners, the Charlotte Observer, have learned US Airways may have to cancel up to 10 per cent of its flights on Tuesday and Wednesday.

The cancellations may affect hundreds of passengers looking to fly out of Charlotte-Douglas airport Tuesday. The reason for the cancellations is that workers will be repairing a runway. The work is expected to be completed early Thursday.

Passengers affected by the cancellations will get calls from reservation agents Monday.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-050905-jmn-US_Air_cancellations.258cd8ab0.html

[Edited 2005-05-09 15:58:31]
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HT
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Runway Repair at CLT: USAirways cancels 10% of flights

Mon May 09, 2005 10:57 pm

Suggestion:
Would it have been wise to include "CLT" in the header ? or even rename it to "Construction at CLT: USAirways cancels 10% of flights" ?

Regards,
Holger
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DAL767400ER
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Runway Repair at CLT: USAirways cancels 10% of flights

Mon May 09, 2005 11:26 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 2):
Would it have been wise to include "CLT" in the header ? or even rename it to "Construction at CLT: USAirways cancels 10% of flights" ?

My thoughts exactly. From the topic header, I thought that either a leasing company had repossesed some jets, or that some FA's went on an impromptu strike, not just some runway rehab work at CLT.
 
jmc1975
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 12:56 am

I don't know what y'all are talking about.....the heading is more than adeqaute.

"Runway Repair at CLT: USAirways cancels 10% of flights"  Confused
.......
 
cltguy
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 2:05 am

Does anyone have anymore info on these cancellations?
 
EnviroTO
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 2:15 am

Haha. I always laugh at discussions about changing the title on a thread since this forum ALWAYS has someone that can't figure out the heading was changed before they saw it.
 
cltguy
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 2:50 am

The news is getting worse...now they are planning on canceling 17% of the CLT flight...thats 200 flights over 2 days. The flights that are not cancelled will have an average 30 min delay.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 4:07 am

Wasn't this planned for in advance? I mean, wouldn't CLT tell the airlines when runway repairs would be made, so that the airlines could minimize the impact on their operations?

Sounds like US was caught by surprise on this.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 4:14 am

It's not surprising that there was no advance warning-- US seems to always have problems with coordinating their operations with the goings-on at various airports. How long has their last CLT departure bank been chronically delayed due to CLT going to one runway after 2300 hrs?
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Tom in NO
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 4:18 am

Repairs such as those detailed in the linked WCNC article are typically planned out well in advance. As airport operators, we try to give our tenant airlines as much forewarning as we can on projects that affect airport operations. As an example, we closed our runway 10/28 (our primary runway) earlier this year for a complete reconstruction, which will take nine months. Our airlines, while not liking it for a minute, and having to take weight penalties off certain flights, were warned far in advance, and had plenty of time to make their contingency plans. I'm sure the CLT airport people kept US and their other carriers fully advised of what was coming.

Tom at MSY
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bennett123
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 10:22 am

Things never seem to work out for US.

They really do not need this.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 11:07 am

How sad...there most probably not enough staff was on hand to plan for the disaster. CLT is one of US Airways' nicest operations and deserves to be kept running 100% of the time.
 
exFATboy
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 11:51 am

Just looks like another example of US mismanagement to me.

Oh, and there's nothing on the website about it. A few weeks ago when a single daily arrival and departure to Belize City were disrupted, it was right on the web site's main page. Disruption at a hub? Not a word.

(edited for typo)

[Edited 2005-05-10 04:52:03]
 
A330323X
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 12:44 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 8):
Wasn't this planned for in advance? I mean, wouldn't CLT tell the airlines when runway repairs would be made, so that the airlines could minimize the impact on their operations?

Sounds like US was caught by surprise on this.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
It's not surprising that there was no advance warning-- US seems to always have problems with coordinating their operations with the goings-on at various airports.



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 11):
Things never seem to work out for US.



Quoting Usdcaguy (Reply 12):
How sad...there most probably not enough staff was on hand to plan for the disaster.



Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 13):
Just looks like another example of US mismanagement to me.

I really don't see what the problem is, other than some people having nothing better to do than complain about US at every possible opportunity. US knew about the problem ahead of time, cancelled the affected flights ahead of time, and notified the affected customers ahead of time. What more is there?

This was posted on the Hub, US's company intranet, on Saturday:

Quote:
Working the Runway

Construction efforts are planned for the Charlotte runway starting Monday, May 9, at 8 p.m., through Thursday, May 12, at 6 a.m. Runway 18R/36L will be closed during this period, while worn concrete slabs are replaced.

US Airways has been working with the Charlotte Airport Authority, the Federal Aviation Administration southeast region, and local Air Traffic Control to minimize delays during this event.

The Operations Control Center (OCC) has gathered a team including Dispatch, Aircraft Routing, Crew Routing, Operations Planning and Analysis, and Customer Information Coordination to select limited flights for thinning of the operation. Teams at US Airways Express carriers Mesa, PSA and Piedmont are evaluating operations, as well.

“In a project of this magnitude, it is important to determine every possible scenario to ensure the least disruption to our operation and the best alternatives for our customers,” said Bob Maloney, managing director of Operations Control and Planning.

Bob explained that a reduction to Charlotte operations will be necessary during the construction work period. Up to ten percent of Tuesday’s and Wednesday’s flights may be canceled, which will reduce delays for those flights operating as scheduled. “Even with the reduced schedule, it will be a challenging environment. All hands will be on deck to get aircraft on and off of the airport taxiways,” he said.

OCC will make every effort to forecast cancellation needs on Sunday, giving Reservations plenty of time to contact and re-accommodate our customers for the week ahead. Reservations is prepared to process the flights immediately and has established a dedicated team of representatives to assist affected customers. OCC will monitor the situation in Charlotte and will issue guidance or take additional action as necessary.
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exFATboy
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 1:47 pm

Quoting A330323X (Reply 14):
This was posted on the Hub, US's company intranet, on Saturday: (snip)

When was the work actually scheduled?

Unless this was some sort of emergency repair, and the work was actually not scheduled until last Thursday or Friday, then why would US not be able to notify customers until Monday of cancellations Tuesday and Wednesday? Unless the first response above (which is a quote from the Charlotte Observer) is incorrect, the customer notification was inadequate Let's put it this way: if I got a call on Monday telling me my flight the next day was cancelled and my plans were being rearranged for a reason US knew about well in advance, I would not consider that "plenty of time" and would consider it poor management, or at the least, a lack of pro-active management. Sorry, but I call them as I see them.

Now if it was an emergency repair, that would be different, but the wording of the US internal communication above - particularly the use of the word "magnitude" - suggests otherwise.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 1:54 pm

ExFAT-The flights that have been cancelled are likely flights that would have gone out fairly close to empty anyway. Obviously, US Airways is going to wait until fairly soon before to have any chance to see that.
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SHUPirate1
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 2:39 pm

Note that this is a public service announcement:

Those passengers on the originators of these flight numbers do not necessarily have their flights cancelled (in fact, in most cases, the other leg is not cancelled). Please wait for my next post before seeing if your flight arriving into Charlotte is cancelled.

Mainline flights for Tuesday, 5/10 that are cancelled leaving Charlotte:

1053 to Nassau, Bahamas-NAS
1054 to Detroit, Michigan-DTW
1057 to Washington, Dulles, Virginia-IAD
1297 to San Juan, Puerto Rico-SJU
1412 to Providence, Rhode Island-PVD
1426 to Wilmington, North Carolina-ILM
147 to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina-MYR
1486 to Boston, Massachusetts-BOS
153 to Manchester, New Hampshire-MHT
212 to Indianapolis, Indiana-IND
250 to Washington, District of Columbia-DCA
255 to Richmond, Virginia-RIC
258 to New York, New York-LGA
274 to Baltimore, Maryland-BWI
365 to Fort Lauderdale, Florida-FLL
374 to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania-PIT
431 to Miami, Florida-MIA
470 to Rochester, New York-ROC
572 to Richmond, Virginia-RIC
735 to Wilmington, North Carolina-ILM
846 to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania-PHL
895 to Newark, New Jersey-EWR
906 to Memphis, Tennessee-MEM
917 to Charleston, South Carolina-CHS
920 to Greensboro, North Carolina-GSO
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kc135topboom
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 10):
Repairs such as those detailed in the linked WCNC article are typically planned out well in advance. As airport operators, we try to give our tenant airlines as much forewarning as we can on projects that affect airport operations. As an example, we closed our runway 10/28 (our primary runway) earlier this year for a complete reconstruction, which will take nine months. Our airlines, while not liking it for a minute, and having to take weight penalties off certain flights, were warned far in advance, and had plenty of time to make their contingency plans. I'm sure the CLT airport people kept US and their other carriers fully advised of what was coming.

Tom at MSY

Tom is correct. Repairs like this are coordinated well in advance. I'll bet CLT notified every tenant months ago. These repairs are most likely CFR part 139 pproblems that CLT has been making tempoary repairs on until the cost of the repairs was budgeted and a contract was awarded. This sounds like some full depth concrete block (ours are 25' X 25') replacement.

How many of the other airlines at CLT have had to cancel flights? If the answer is none, then this goes back to poor planning on the part of US.

At DFW, we do these type of repairs about every other year. Our largest carrier, AA, knows about it well in advance. They also know the "back-up dates" incase the project must slip because of weather on the original planned start date.

Quoting Usdcaguy (Reply 12):
How sad...there most probably not enough staff was on hand to plan for the disaster. CLT is one of US Airways' nicest operations and deserves to be kept running 100% of the time.

??????? This is not a disaster, it is normal runway maintenance. If US did not have enough staff on hand, who's fault is that? With some planning, US could have avoided all of this, there is no reason to cancel these flights IF you plan for it. Now they are getting bad PR, and they desearve it. You cannot blame the airport for closing one runway, after they told the tenants about it.

CLT could not have put this project together over the weekend. There are months of planning on the "as builts" to determine what is under these runway panels and the electrical work and plan estimsted costs. Then you have to send the project out to bidders, select one, and sign a contract. The contract will have specifications and limitations for the contractor. It will tell him the exact times and dates for the runway closure. It will also specify the back-up dates, if needed. Extended runway closures, like this one require a NOTAM be sent at least 48 hours before the scheduled closure. All of this is pre-coordinated with the airlines. There is no reason for US to be surprized by this type of work.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 3:36 pm

Here are the mainline arrival cancellations into Charlotte for Tuesday, May 10:

1012 from Memphis, Tennessee-MEM
1052 from New York, New York-LGA
1054 from Nassau, Bahamas-NAS
1064 from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania-PHL
1207 from Dulles, Virginia-IAD
1216 from Miami, Florida-MIA
1247 from Manchester, New Hampshire-MHT
1464 from Providence, Rhode Island-PVD
182 from Greensboro, North Carolina-GSO
205 from Charleston, South Carolina-CHS
310 from Baltimore, Maryland-BWI
327 from Manchester, New Hampshire-MHT
359 from Wilmington, North Carolina
369 from Dulles, Virginia-IAD
423 from Indianapolis, Indiana-IND
428 from Charleston, South Carolina-CHS
507 from Richmond, Virginia-RIC
539 from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania-PIT
553 from Washington, District of Columbia-DCA
641 from Detroit, Michigan-DTW
689 from Newark, New Jersey-EWR
691 from Baltimore, Maryland-BWI
735 from Rochester, New York-ROC
856 from Boston, Massachusetts-BOS
897 from Newark, New Jersey-EWR
968 from San Juan, Puerto Rico-SJU

Express carriers will be next, in order of flight number (PSA, Mesa, Chautauqua, Piedmont, Air Midwest)

[Edited 2005-05-10 08:38:20]
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SHUPirate1
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 4:29 pm

Cancellations for PSA into Charlotte on 5/10/05:

2235 from Dayton, Ohio-DAY
2245 from Raleigh, North Carolina-RDU
2247 from Jacksonville, North Carolina-OAJ
2258 from Memphis, Tennessee-MEM
2371 from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina-MYR
2540 from Nashville, Tennessee-BNA

Cancellations for PSA from Charlotte on 5/10/05:

2220 to Greensboro, North Carolina-GSO
2228 to Jacksonville, North Carolina-OAJ
2242 to Raleigh, North Carolina-RDU
2247 to Memphis, Tennessee-MEM
2540 to Nashville, Tennessee-BNA
2570 to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina-MYR

Cancellations for Mesa to Charlotte on 5/10/05:

2671 from Greenville, South Carolina-GSP
2688 from Chattanooga, Tennessee-CHA
2709 from Montgomery, Alabama-MGM
2770 from Tri Cities, Tennessee-TRI
2814 from Lexington, Kentucky-LEX
2902 from Roanoke, Virginia-ROA
2907 from Fayetteville, North Carolina-FAY
2950 from Cincinnati, Ohio-CVG
2978 from Dayton, Ohio-DAY
2985 from Charlottesville, Virginia-CHO

Cancellations for Mesa from Charlotte on 5/10/05:

2676 to Charlottesville, Virginia-CHO
2696 to Cincinnati, Ohio-CVG
2698 to Columbia, South Carolina-CAE
2717 to Greenville, South Carolina-GSP
2728 to Chattanooga, Tennessee-CHA
2755 to Montgomery, Alabama-MGM
2756 to Roanoke, Virginia-ROA
2778 to Tri Cities, Tennessee-TRI
2869 to Lexington, Kentucky-LEX
2896 to Fayetteville, North Carolina-FAY
2957 to Dayton, Ohio-DAY

Note: No flights for Chautauqua in and out of Charlotte are cancelled...I may update the prop carriers, Piedmont and Air Midwest, in a little bit, but do not expect to.

[Edited 2005-05-10 09:32:25]
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hawk44
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 4:41 pm

All I can say is glad I flew into CLT last Friday with no real problems except for an aborted take off  biggrin 

Hawk44
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Cubsrule
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 9:45 pm

Given the magnitude of US' operations at CLT, the fact that no one else cancelled flights does not necessarily show anything about US' planning or lack thereof. They easily account for over 80% of movements at CLt, and that number being over 90% would not surprise me.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Delta07
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Tue May 10, 2005 10:35 pm

Ok, at the risk of asking an idiotic/stupid question...am I missing something here but why don't they just use 18L/36R for those flights. Then they would only be delayed due to volume instead of cancelled?

I've been to CLT many times to plane spot and taken many trips out of that airport until Delta Connection - ASA started service out of HKY.

Just a thought I had yesterday when I read about this online at www.charlotte.com

Fletcher
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Cubsrule
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 3:23 am

US' normal banks are just too big to run with only one runway open. They're trying to avoid mucking up the entire system because their delays at CLT are so bad. Every bank would be like what their last one looks like after 2300 if they didn't trim the schedules some.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 4:05 am

They can use 18L/36R, but with a single RWY in operation, they can only accept about 40 arrivals per hour. US's banks exceed 60/hr. during busy times.

It actually looks like they are using 23 for arrivals right now. They are probably using 18L for departures. The GDP is really not that bad. Average delay is only 28min (and only for flights w/in 850mi of CLT). With all of US/USX's cancels and subs, their delays are probably in the 15-20 minute range, which is a nuisance, but hardly a *major* impact to their operation.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 6:05 am

Check again buddy...for the next 15 minutes, Charlotte-Douglas is ground-stopped for all second-tier centers except Albuquerque (from Houston, Fort Worth, Kansas City, and Chicago centers east)
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RDUDDJI
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 11:13 am

yeah things change alot when TSTMS roll in. Look at the time on my post it was two hours before yours.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 27):
yeah things change alot when TSTMS roll in. Look at the time on my post it was two hours before yours.

My fault...didn't notice the time stamps, and even if I did the significant time zone difference sometimes throws me off anyway...regardless, although I could have been nicer about saying what I did, it still doesn't change the fact that CLT was ground-stopped for a short time this afternoon...BTW, keep in mind that Charlotte is generally quite resistant to delays, of course, with two runways closed, that'll change in a hurry... Sad
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RDUDDJI
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 11:25 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 28):
My fault...didn't notice the time stamps

Ain't no thing man. It was bad enough there, then the TSTMS caused the GS, then they reran the GDP and avg delays were up to 80min. That's quite siginficant. The GDP ended around 0030z though.

You are correct CLT is normally highly efficient. Does anyone know if they are on track to finish RWY repairs tomorrow?
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
Ryefly
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 11:46 am

I doubt they will finish on time. We have had heavy thunderstorms all afternoon and tonight. The storms just parked right over Charlotte area for hours. At one point the news was reporting 2,000 lightning strikes per hour in the Charlotte metro area.
 
flyinTLow
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 11:54 am

ok, sorry if i seem stupid now for asking this question:

they said up there that they would close the runway at night for redoing it.

How could US Airways possibly have banks at night that would require them to cancel 10% of their flights even though there is a perfectly usable runway available?
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 11:57 am

FlyinTLow...they are doing the construction during the day too. That's what the thread starter is referring to.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
flyinTLow
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 12:21 pm

ok, then let me ask you this:

Why don't they close the runway from let's say midnight to 4am. I doubt US has too many flights around that time. That means just 4 hours. Giving the 2 days estimated by CLT, the refurbishing would require 48 hours. So if you have just 4 hours now instead of 24 each day, that would make 12 days. Give them an extra couple of days, and i think the costs would still be very well lower than cancelling 10% of the flights.
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 12:23 pm

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 33):
Why don't they close the runway from let's say midnight to 4am. I doubt US has too many flights around that time. That means just 4 hours. Giving the 2 days estimated by CLT, the refurbishing would require 48 hours. So if you have just 4 hours now instead of 24 each day, that would make 12 days. Give them an extra couple of days, and i think the costs would still be very well lower than cancelling 10% of the flights.

I think it would be very hard to land with a torn-up runway and with construction vehicles on it  wink .

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
Ryefly
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 12:38 pm

The plan all along was they were planning on having the new runway completed and operational before the started this project. As you know due to the state of the airline industry that project was delayed and so it left the airport no choice but to try and fix it with only the two other runways available.

It's just flew out of CLT last week and came back Sunday and we used 36L both times. It seemed nice and smooth to me, but from what I understand they waited as long as they could before fixing it.
 
flyinTLow
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 12:59 pm

Well duh, tear up 1/10 of it and fill it up again one night, pull all the vehicles off the runway again. The next night you challenge the next 1/10.
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Runway Repair At CLT: USAirways Cancels 10% Of Flights

Wed May 11, 2005 7:33 pm

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 36):
Well duh, tear up 1/10 of it and fill it up again one night, pull all the vehicles off the runway again. The next night you challenge the next 1/10.

It all depends on what section of runway needed the repairs. Noramlly, if the repairs are on the ends of the runway, you can displace the threshold, if you can have the 1000' long runway safety area. If it is in the mid sections of the runway, you have to close it.

Runways are planned to last for 20 years. Some go longer than that, others need repairs after 12 years. But, when repairs are needed, you have to do them. If you don't airplanes will be damaged.

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Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos