stirling
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A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 10:28 am

Is it possible for an A340-200 or A340-300 to have it's powerplants upgraded ala' the DC-8-70 series, KC-135R, and Convairliner (CV-240/340/440)


I tried searching the archives, I would have swore this was mentioned briefly once in the past with no luck.....
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KL808
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 10:43 am

you wanna put CFM56 on that thing. I dont think that would be advisable.

You could probably retrofit the engines to get performance like the E version.

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sammyk
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 11:01 am

Umm doesn't the A342/343 already have CFM56s?
 
bennett123
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 11:04 am

I think that he meant re-engining, rather than re-engining with CFM56.

I could be wrong.
 
stirling
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 1:52 pm

I was thinking along the lines of the RR Trent 556.

CFMs on a Convairliner? That would be a sight to see!  wideeyed 
Since it most likely would only need one! Put that baby on top of the fuselage!
Kinda like one of those first generation German fighters! (btw, which one am I thinking about?)

So, I'll ask again, with more clarity...Can the powerplants on the A340-200 and A340-300 be uprated?
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kc135topboom
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 2:04 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
Kinda like one of those first generation German fighters! (btw, which one am I thinking about?)

Me-163 or the V-1?

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
Can the powerplants on the A340-200 and A340-300 be uprated?

How about 4 PW-2040s from the B-757?

Yeah, get rid of the "hairdryer" engines on the A-342/3
 
KC135R
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting Sammyk (Reply 2):
Umm doesn't the A342/343 already have CFM56s?

Yes it does, they are CFM56-5C's, with a 31,200 - 34,000 thrust rating, the most powerful CFM's.

Funny thing is, as much as I love them on the -135, they look awful on the A340's IMO - that airplane looks like the engines are way too small.

Now the A340-5 and -6, those engines look about right.


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Now if the could just do something about that odd landing gear arrangement on the A345, which is - BTW, other than that gear - one of my favorite airplanes looks wise! Smile

Quoting Stirling (Thread starter):
Is it possible for an A340-200 or A340-300 to have it's powerplants upgraded ala' the DC-8-70 series, KC-135R, and Convairliner (CV-240/340/440)

I don't see why not, in theory it should be possible. However IMO, I would guess that for the payback on a fairly new airplane with good engines it would be cost prohibitive. What would be the point of replacing the engines exactly?
 
N1120A
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 2:50 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
How about 4 PW-2040s from the B-757?

If it were that simple, you could strap some RB211s to them. It is not that simple.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
I was thinking along the lines of the RR Trent 556.

And burn up all of the fuel the tanks hold half again as fast? Not a good idea

Quoting KL808 (Reply 1):
you wanna put CFM56 on that thing. I dont think that would be advisable.

They already have CFM56s. Perhaps that is the point?
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monteycarlos
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 2:53 pm

Quoting KL808 (Reply 1):
you wanna put CFM56 on that thing. I dont think that would be advisable.

Dude, the engine option for the A342/3 is a CFM56.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 3):
I think that he meant re-engining, rather than re-engining with CFM56.

Yeah, thats definately what he meant!

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
I was thinking along the lines of the RR Trent 556.

Nah, screw that! Try sticking the GE-90-115 on it! Imagine four of those suckers on it. Assuming they didn't break the wings of, its highly likely that they would put this plane into orbit!

Then there wouldn't be any jokes about the A343 climb rate!

I would think that even the Trent 400's (I think thats the one - the A330 powerplant?) would go pretty well with this aircraft! I wonder what it would be like with the four CF6-80's on it?
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KC135R
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 2:55 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
They already have CFM56s. Perhaps that is the point?

HAHA! I never looked at it like that, maybe that was his point????!!!????  Smile
 
brons2
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 2:57 pm

Perhaps CFM could announce some sort of performance uprating for the existing engines. Getting them closer to 40K lbs would help with the climb performance, I'm sure.
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stirling
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 2:58 pm

Quoting KC135R (Reply 6):
What would be the point of replacing the engines exactly?

Down the road....
In the advent more efficient engines come along?...or maybe an existing operator that might need to increase MTOW increase for range, or for enhanced take-off performance from less than ideal airports...?(but that would probably require MUCH MORE engineering than just slapping some new fans under the wings)
Or, possibly an airline that might not be unable to justify the expense of a newer model -500 or -600...?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
How about 4 PW-2040s from the B-757?

Now that's a HOTROD!
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N1120A
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 3:00 pm

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 10):
Perhaps CFM could announce some sort of performance uprating for the existing engines

Would probably be difficult as that engine is getting pretty maxed out as it is
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KC135R
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 3:06 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 11):
Now that's a HOTROD!

Yeah...Like the C-17 with its 4 PW2040's FYI, and it's TO performance is quite impressive, especially for such a "rotund" airplane!  

Quoting Stirling (Reply 11):
(but that would probably require MUCH MORE engineering than just slapping some new fans under the wings)

The KC-135 got a whole modernization with the CFM's including re-skinned wings, new wiring, new struts, new engine struts (to accommodate the new engines of course), and the engines - which effectively doubled the airplanes total thrust capability. Oh yeah, plus, the CFM56 makes the coolest noises when it throttles up, IMO of course!

[Edited 2005-05-10 08:15:40]
 
stirling
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 3:08 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Me-163 or the V-1?

Close! You got me thinking though!

It was the Heinkel He-162

http://www.vectorsite.net/avhe162.html

or Henschel Hs-132

http://www.luft46.com/henschel/hs132.html
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rikkus67
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RE: A340 Retrofit?

Tue May 10, 2005 4:08 pm

I realize this post is about re-engining the A340, however....

When suggesting the re-engining of the Convair, I believe there was a misquote. The 240,340, and 440 were the largest fleet of airliners ever to get the engine upgrade...these became 540, 600, and 640's IIRC.

There was also a proposal to put CFM-56's on the CV880 and CV990 fleet**, as the usable lifespan of those airframes were still favorable. However, the re-engining would have involved replacing the 4 engines with 2....and the proposal obviously never went past that. I imagine climb rate and cruise speed would still be comarable to the original performance...a crotch rocket among 4 holers...

(**the very last 707 was initially reengined with CFM-56's also.... the powerplants were eventually changed back to JT3D's, when airlines were looking at the 757 more than another re-engined 1st gen. jet)
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