APFPilot1985
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 1:27 pm

700-200LR, here we come!
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nirvarma
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 1:37 pm

I'm sorry, I tried that link but it didn't work...and I couldn't find anything on the website regarding this...(not saying that I doubt the story)
How many options did Singapore hold for the A345?

Cheers
NV
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 1:38 pm

Quote:
SIA Fleet Facts

Aircraft - A340-500
Engine - Rolls Royce Trent 553
In Fleet - 5
On Order - 0
On Option - 0

Thanks

Lee

[Edited 2005-05-11 06:41:53]
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
arkhem
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 1:41 pm

Quoting Mham001 (Thread starter):

Your link does not point to anything specific.

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 1):
700-200LR, here we come!

This has been the favorite A.net rumor for how long?
 
nirvarma
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 1:45 pm

Thanks Lee....
Did you get these facts from the Singapore website...if so do you know when/if this info was updated? Reason I ask is because it states that there are no options yet thread suggests that they have cancelled their options.

Cheers
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bunga777
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 1:55 pm

I just checked the site, and it still has 5 options listed...
 
atmx2000
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 2:08 pm

Unfortunately, the Singapore site dynamicly serves the page and does not provide a way to create a static link to the news releases. But here are some recent releases that contained options data for the A345.

http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/app/...dynamic=PressReleases/NE_2405.html

Singapore Airlines : World's Largest Operator of Boeing 777s
7 May 2005
...










Aircraft TypeEngine  In FleetEN-US">¹On Firm OrderOn Option/Purchase 
B747-400 (MEGATOP)PW405627 
B777-200ER (JUBILEE)Rolls Royce Trent 8921500
B777-300 (JUBILEE)Rolls Royce Trent 8921200
B777-200 (JUBILEE)Rolls Royce Trent 8843100
B777-300ER (JUBILEE)GE90-115b01913
A340-500Rolls Royce Trent 553500
A380-800Rolls-Royce Trent 900-1015
Total  902928


http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/app/...dynamic=PressReleases/NE_3604.html

SIA A340-500 To Set Another World Record
28 June 2004
...
SIA placed an order for 10 A340-500s in 1998 -- five on firm order and five on option -- worth US$2.2 billion, including the cost of spares and spare engines. The aircraft is powered by four Rolls-Royce Trent 553 engines.



So assuming that the first release is accurate, SQ has canceled the options in sometime in the last 10 months. I don't know if the options included the ability to order the HGW A345 variants, but if they did I think it is safe to say that SQ is not ordering more A345s. Whether that means they are ordering 772LRs, or whether they don't think ultra long haul is worth their time or that no more viable routes exist, I don't know.

[Edited 2005-05-11 07:10:40]
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Jet-lagged
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 2:09 pm

Under the Press Releases, choose this one "Singapore Airlines : World's Largest Operator of Boeing 777s"

Which says . . .
Aircraft Type Engine In Fleet¹ On Firm Order On Option/Purchase
B747-400 (MEGATOP) PW4056 27 0 0
B777-200ER (JUBILEE) Rolls Royce Trent 892 15 0 0
B777-300 (JUBILEE) Rolls Royce Trent 892 12 0 0
B777-200 (JUBILEE) Rolls Royce Trent 884 31 0 0
B777-300ER (JUBILEE) GE90-115b 0 19 13
A340-500 Rolls Royce Trent 553 5 0 0
A380-800 Rolls-Royce Trent 900 - 10 15
 
jakob77
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 2:46 pm

the fleet info still shows 5 options for the 345s
but the most recent PR about being the largest 777 operator also shows a table of SQ's fleet info. it shows that the options for the 345s have now become "zero"
guess SQ won't be topping up their 345s
 
 
Mark_D.
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 3:30 pm

Probably safe to say that they're not taking the orders-- and even that they are going to order at least a half-dozen 772LRs and slough off the 345s as the new Boeings arrive.
 
zvezda
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 3:56 pm

Quoting Mark_D. (Reply 11):
Probably safe to say that they're not taking the orders-- and even that they are going to order at least a half-dozen 772LRs and slough off the 345s as the new Boeings arrive.

The markets that SQ might serve with the B777-200LRs are SFO, LAX, ORD, and EWR. That would require a fleet of 9 or 10. SIN-GRU and SIN-EZE are conceivable, but I think unlikely.
 
monteycarlos
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 4:02 pm

Quoting Mark_D. (Reply 11):
Probably safe to say that they're not taking the orders-- and even that they are going to order at least a half-dozen 772LRs and slough off the 345s as the new Boeings arrive.

What I think would be a good idea (and I'm yet to see the figures that would justify it) would be for SQ to convert the A345's into an all-premium class layout (with no economy at all) while using the 772LR's in a two class layout and operate them (pending on slots and timing) to the same destinations. I think that could be a money spinner for them, but its only what I think and I have no figures to substantiate that!
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 4:06 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):
SIN-GRU and SIN-EZE are conceivable, but I think unlikely.

Add beyond rights from Sydney into the equation and these two would become more likely. But that doesn't require A345 range then as you could probably do it with a 744 like QF used to to Buenos Aires.

Maybe they have just found that their route to the US is more profitable with a stop to pick up passengers in Japan or other North Asian capitals en route???
 
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 4:09 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 13):

What I think would be a good idea (and I'm yet to see the figures that would justify it) would be for SQ to convert the A345's into an all-premium class layout (with no economy at all) while using the 772LR's in a two class layout and operate them (pending on slots and timing) to the same destinations.

I don't think there is sufficient premium demand to justify that. Switching from A340-500 to B777-200LR will already be an increase in supply. SQ1/2 is planned to switch from the JumboJet to the WhaleJet. I fly from SIN to the US in business class several times per year and I just don't see enough demand to make your idea work.
 
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 6:01 pm

This today from SIA's website:

A340-500

Engine Type: Rolls Royce Trent 553
In Fleet: 5
On Firm Order: 0
On Option: 5
 
atmx2000
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 6:20 pm

Quoting Joni (Reply 16):
This today from SIA's website:

A340-500

Engine Type: Rolls Royce Trent 553
In Fleet: 5
On Firm Order: 0
On Option: 5

Other people have already said that the website still lists the options. Whether the press release is a mistake, an indication of a future direction not yet acted on or in the process of being acted on, or the actual status of SQ's order is an open question.
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monteycarlos
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 6:50 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
I don't think there is sufficient premium demand to justify that. Switching from A340-500 to B777-200LR will already be an increase in supply. SQ1/2 is planned to switch from the JumboJet to the WhaleJet. I fly from SIN to the US in business class several times per year and I just don't see enough demand to make your idea work.

How about on other sectors? One of my lecturers is very keen on the idea of QF doing it to one or two of the older 737's on domestic Australian routes (i.e. MEL - SYD) and this will probably materialise when Ozjet commence operations.

I believe SQ could get away with it even with a plane such as the A345 but I think they would have to pick their schedule and destinations very carefully. Maybe the demand doesn't exist for it to occur on the ULH routes to the US but I think shorter-haul asian routes could be good provided there aren't too many inefficiencies in doing so. Any thoughts?
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brightcedars
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 6:50 pm

In any case it would make sense to opt for the 777-200LR given the number of 777s they have in their fleet. We're talking maximum commonality (except for those bigger GE engines unfortunately) and a possible fleet based on just 3 families: the 777s, the A380s and another addition at the bottom.

Having said this, I see the smaller 787s fit more in SQ's fleet plans than the 350s that would come close to the 777-200s in size.

Don't worry, there'll be enough demand on the 2nd hand market to absorb those A340-500s (maybe Virgin?; just an idea; don't want to start a rumour).
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:03 pm

SQ did say about a month ago that they are not interested in any more ultra long haul, so maybe this is why the 5 options have been cancelled. As much as heaps of us would love SQ to announce an order for B772LRs, we will have to wait a little bit longer
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:05 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 20):
As much as heaps of us would love SQ to announce an order for B772LRs,

Why? They have a perfectly adequate aircraft for their needs already.

cheers

mariner
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:09 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
Why? They have a perfectly adequate aircraft for their needs already.

Yes I know that, but heaps of a.net members just wish SQ would dump their A345 fleet like SQ dumped their A343 fleet on boeing.

Nirvarma, welcome to a.net fellow kiwi  Smile
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:12 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 22):
but heaps of a.net members just wish SQ would dump their A345 fleet

Why? Is the aircraft not doing what Singapore Airlines wants it to do?

cheers

mariner
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:12 pm

Pity they are getting rid such a good aircraft. Well , the Boeing 777 is just as good and it make sense because they already ordered the 772LR. I am not a big fan of flying twin jet for more then 15 hrs but since this is SQ's choice , I am happy for Boeing as a Boeing 777 fan. However , I am still a 4 engines for long haul person.
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monteycarlos
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:17 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
Why? They have a perfectly adequate aircraft for their needs already.

Yeah. But its not the newest one on the block so maybe they think its time to update!

Quoting 777ER (Reply 22):
Yes I know that, but heaps of a.net members just wish SQ would dump their A345 fleet like SQ dumped their A343 fleet on boeing.

I don't think Boeing is going to take these planes!

Quoting Mariner (Reply 23):
Is the aircraft not doing what Singapore Airlines wants it to do?

I hear the loads are lower than expected bascially because they ran into configuration "issues". Anybody to confirm?

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 24):
Pity they are getting rid such a good aircraft.

Who said they are getting rid of them?

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 24):
Well , the Boeing 777 is just as good and it make sense because they already ordered the 772LR.

When did SQ order the 772LR? Do you know something we don't?
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trent900
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:19 pm

I'm sure we all heard this one coming. After all if Boeing are taking their 340's why would the exercise the options for them? I've always wondered why Airbus doesn't use this crafty way of sweetening airlines?


D.
 
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mariner
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:20 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 25):
I hear the loads are lower than expected bascially because they ran into configuration "issues". Anybody to confirm?

I hear an awful lot of stuff - especially here on a.net. I like links.

Once again, is the aircraft not doing what it is supposed to do?

cheers

mariner
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atmx2000
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:34 pm

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 24):
However , I am still a 4 engines for long haul person.



My dream fleet : Airbus A330-200/-300 ,Boeing 787 and Boeing 777-300ER

Dude, I guess your dream fleet won't be doing long haul...
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zvezda
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:35 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
Why? They have a perfectly adequate aircraft for their needs already.

The main reason SQ are expected to replace their A340-500s with B777-200LR is because the latter can operate their missions with significantly greater payload while consuming less fuel. Fleet commonality and a lower diversion rate are icing on SQ's cake.
 
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:37 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 27):
Once again, is the aircraft not doing what it is supposed to do?

According to SQ, yes it is, but what I'm saying and obvously you don't understand, is that heaps of a.net members wish SQ would rid of the A340 fleet for more B777s
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United Airline
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:38 pm

Well they might wanna fly to Madrid, Chicago etc nonstop from Singapore.....
 
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:39 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 29):
The main reason SQ are expected to replace their A340-500s with B777-200LR

Are expected to by whom?

cheers

mariner
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:43 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 32):
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 29):
The main reason SQ are expected to replace their A340-500s with B777-200LR

Are expected to by whom?

A.net members are wanting SQ to replace their A345s, but on the other hand I can't think of anyone (non a.net members) expecting SQ to replace their A345s
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intothinair
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:45 pm

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 24):
they already ordered the 772LR.

When did SQ order the 772LR.
I am curious, do you know something we don't.

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mariner
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:46 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 33):
A.net members are wanting SQ to replace their A345s,

(a) Why?

(b) This a.netter doesn't.

cheers

mariner
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:48 pm

Wonder if we will see SQ restarting services to LAS, ORD, BRU etc.... Also HKG-TPE.
 
monteycarlos
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:48 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 27):
I hear an awful lot of stuff - especially here on a.net. I like links.

This one doesn't highlight the problems but its a bit about the A345 when they ordered:

http://www.airsider.net/files/2004/0604/010/sia345.htm

This article begins to highlight the attitude of SQ and why the A345 is on the way out:

http://www.planebusiness.com/perspectives/p072899airbus.html

This may be what you are after:

http://www.aeroworldnet.com/2ls02220.htm (I personally think its too old to be of concern now)

Otherwise all I can do is point you to this forum which had some quotes from FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL.
A345/A346 Problems: The Airlines Speak (by PM May 4 2005 in Civil Aviation)

"SIA acknowledges it has experienced problems with its A340-500 fleet, but refuses to detail what they are, saying it does not want to point fingers.

SIA ... satisfied with dispatch reliability ... problems encountered have been normal for the introduction of new aircraft types … very seldom has it been pulled out for AOG

A340-500 has been received well by pilots with and without Airbus experience. “The pilots are generally very im­­pres­sed. The technology is very advanced. Compared with the -300 series the performance is much better and the handling is also much better.” --
"
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:50 pm

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 24):
because they already ordered the 772LR

Since when?

Quoting Mariner (Reply 35):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 33):
A.net members are wanting SQ to replace their A345s,

(a) Why?

How am I meant to know, my brain doesn't control every a.netters thoughts.
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avek00
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:50 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 33):
I can't think of anyone (non a.net members) expecting SQ to replace their A345s

As yet another Airbus underperformer, the A345 carries fewer passengers (SQ wanted 200+ seats, including a First class cabin) and less payload than SQ initially hoped for - if Boeing aggressively discounts the 772LR, the SQ 345 is toast.
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 7:59 pm

Um - thanks, but I'm not after anything except a straight answer. Which, it seems, no one will give me.

As far as Ms. Hegemen and PlaneBusiness are concerned, I'm not sure what the problems of the A343 have to do with:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 22):
heaps of a.net members just wish SQ would dump their A345 fleet

Especially when SQ says that the performance and handling of the A345 is much better.

Of the A345, I read that there have been some problems, but that these problems have been "normal for the introduction of new aircraft types."

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 37):
SIA ... satisfied with dispatch reliability ... problems encountered have been normal for the introduction of new aircraft types … very seldom has it been pulled out for AOG

Then again, you tell me:

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 25):
I hear the loads are lower than expected

Which may be the configuration of the aircraft, but, as equally, may be that not so many people actually want to fly non-stop SIN/JFK. I wouldn't.

But that's just me.

cheers

mariner
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atmx2000
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 8:08 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 40):
Especially when SQ says that the performance and handling of the A345 is much better

Better than the A343-300 that is...

One would hope that Airbus had introduced improvements in a derivative of the A343.

[Edited 2005-05-11 13:14:24]
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monteycarlos
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 8:38 pm

Mariner I completely agree... all I heard was what was on forums here. I love the A345, in fact more than the 772LR so I hope it stays in SQ colours because its IMO the best looking plane in the world.

I mean, according to FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL SQ is happy with it... thats why its a little surprising they have cancelled their options. I was only speculating on your question because it seems no-one else can offer you a reason!
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 8:46 pm

If SQ was to dispose of the A345 it would be for one reason - fleet commonality, SQ is a huge 777 operator (the largest in the world) and maintaining a fleet of just 5 A345s is expensive.

SQ has wanted to offer nonstop service out of SIN to LAX and NYC for years and years - and went with the first aircraft available that could handle such routes. The routes are introduced and operating, that was SQ's primary aim. Now, a few years later, I am sure that SQ is taking a second look at ultra long range aircraft and is certainly sizing up the 777-200LR....at some point SQ may replace the A345s with 772LRs....and if SQ makes that determination, its not because there is something wrong with the A345, it will be because the economics and capablilities of the 772LR may be better, and as I said above, it will be because SQ could eliminate an aircraft subtype. The A345 had done is main job and accomplished it well, it allowed SQ to launch the ultra long haul nonstops, now we shall see if SQ decides to move along to the 772LR (or not?)
 
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 8:49 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 43):
If SQ was to dispose of the A345 it would be for one reason - fleet commonality,

There would be AT LEAST two other reasons - better performance (more payload and better range for less OEW) and superior operating economics.
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 8:51 pm

Monteycarlos:

I have no strong feelings either way.

I prefer four engines for long haul - I'd rather fly on the 747 than the 777 any day - but that may be generational. I'm old. I'm used to four engines.

I'm also used to choice. An all Boeing fleet? Boring. An all Airbus fleet? Equally boring.

(Oh, for some Stratocruisers and Constellations and Hermes and Viscounts - you guys have no idea what you missed. A Caravelle - or even a DC8, anything but all this bland crap).

I'm just fascinated that a bunch of a.netters have - apparently - convinced themselves that something is going to happen but can offer not one shred of evidence that it will.

Hey, ho.  

cheers

mariner

[Edited 2005-05-11 13:58:23]
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 8:59 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 43):
If SQ was to dispose of the A345 it would be for one reason - fleet commonality, SQ is a huge 777 operator (the largest in the world) and maintaining a fleet of just 5 A345s is expensive.

Well not untill the A380 get's introduced to the fleet. From what I understand, pilots can have both A345 and A380 ratings because of similer cockpit operations. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 9:04 pm

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 44):
There would be AT LEAST two other reasons - better performance (more payload and better range for less OEW) and superior operating economics.

But if that is the case, what is the need for aggressive discounting?

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 39):
if Boeing aggressively discounts the 772LR, the SQ 345 is toast.

cheers'

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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 9:34 pm

Quoting Mark_D. (Reply 11):
Probably safe to say that they're not taking the orders-- and even that they are going to order at least a half-dozen 772LRs and slough off the 345s as the new Boeings arrive.

So much for becomming the worlds largest operator of blow dryer powered aircraft!
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RE: SQ Cancels A340-500 Options

Wed May 11, 2005 9:39 pm

SQ want first class on the EWR and LAX flights. The 345 have been configured with 1/2 the body Raffles and half Exec Economy. I couldn't see why they did not put a first class section into the plane, and extend Raffles to the Econ Lav section.

It would be a shame to remove them, as they are so much quieter than the 777, and the shorter SQ Girls don't need assistance pushing those 777 bins in place.

The 345 does lack in performance in terms of cargo capability for these routes, so the more efficient 777 should win out, over mine and my fellow passengers requirements.