drinkstrolley
Posts: 484
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Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 4:54 am

Why hasn't Mr. O'Leary decided to have a stab at the long haul market yet?
 
pilot kaz
Posts: 4591
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 5:00 am

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Thread starter):
Why hasn't Mr. O'Leary decided to have a stab at the long haul market yet?

Because I dont think even Per@son could cope with FR long haul  Silly
-
 
avek00
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 5:04 am

Because as easyJet and Ryanair executives have noted in the past, their business models start to become unworkable for flights over approximately 4 hours.
Live life to the fullest.
 
drinkstrolley
Posts: 484
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 2):
Because as easyJet and Ryanair executives have noted in the past, their business models start to become unworkable for flights over approximately 4 hours.

What does 'unworkable' mean? Any money to be made on board (a crucial part of O'Leary's model) has and can be made inside one hour?
 
ImperialAero
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 5:31 am

I think the point with the business model is that there are very few people who would willingly chose to spend over 4 hours in the sardine-can conditions pushed by easyJet and Ryanair. Add to that lack of complementary, or inclusive meals and drinks, and it starts to fall apart...

I know for sure i'd pay the extra for comfort in long haul, but could just about stand the discomfort for a short hop to the continent, and i'd have thought this goes for most people...
ICURFC - Who Is Sylvia?
 
IanatSTN
Posts: 564
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting ImperialAero (Reply 4):
very few people who would willingly chose to spend over 4 hours

If I could pay less for a flight from London -> US, heck, I wouldn't mind putting up with a bit of tight legroom for a while. And I don't think I'm alone. Agreed, it is not going to be everyone's cup of tea. However, I am absolutely no expert in this field whatso ever. What other airlines, if any, have tried to adopt a new lowcost longhaul model?

Cheers,
Ian.
Ian@STN ::
 
ltbewr
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 5:37 am

There would probably be issues as to duty time, staffing hours and EU regulations on same on longer flights. As it is, aren't some of Ryanair's and EasyJets' flights up to around 3 hours already? They already serve many places in southern Europe, such as Spain, Italy and into Eastern Europe as well. What do you want them to serve next? Israel? Greece? Egypt?
 
rtfm
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting ImperialAero (Reply 4):
I think the point with the business model is that there are very few people who would willingly chose to spend over 4 hours in the sardine-can conditions pushed by easyJet and Ryanair. Add to that lack of complementary, or inclusive meals and drinks, and it starts to fall apart...

Plus the fact that their ability to maintain high utilisation rates would start to diminish if they flew longhaul. With many longhaul flights, even with a swift turnaround you can effectively only get one return trip in a day due to time changes, night restrictions, etc.
 
wunala
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 2:21 pm

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Thread starter):
Why hasn't Mr. O'Leary decided to have a stab at the long haul market yet?

Because after 4 hours on a FR jet, you would probably want to stab him. :>
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 2:24 pm

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Thread starter):
Why hasn't Mr. O'Leary decided to have a stab at the long haul market yet?



Quoting Wunala (Reply 8):
Because after 4 hours on a FR jet, you would probably want to stab him. :>

And most likly because he is so scared off all the Deep Vain court cases his airline would have stacking up againts it
 
EZYAirbus
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 5:54 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
What do you want them to serve next? Israel? Greece? Egypt?

Greece already served daily by easyjet!

Glenn
http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
 
trent900
Posts: 496
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 5:54 pm

I would rather pay the extra money and fly with a proper airline. You then at least get free WATER to drink and a packet of nibbles.

What sort of aircraft did you have in mind?

D.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 6:12 pm

Long haul does not fit their business model. Starting thatb they need a second A/C type in the fleet, overnight stay of crews at destination,no 25 mins turn-arounds possible up to the point that they have tom stock visa waiver and customs forms and always make sure the plane is catered with all the things you need for overseas / third country flights.

This may sound odd, but mnakes sense for a company that does not allow its employees to charge their private mobile/cellphones in the office. Scrooge O'Leary won't go for that, he does not even fly outisde the EU countries in Europe.

And, as mentioned in another thread, that market is served already by the leisure carriers
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olympicbis
Posts: 162
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 6:15 pm

Ryanair long haul : why not also starting "cheap" orbital flights like Virgin Galactic intends to do ? You would even have to pay for the oxygen....
As several others said before, there might be people ready to suffer in those cattle cars for a couple of hours, but I doubt that so many would do it on a transatlantic flight, as I do not think that Mr O' Leary's so-called business model would enable him to compete or do the same damage in that kind of playground... Now if he would like to give it a try, I would even support him if this could help precipitating the demise of his joke of an airline... and force him to swallow his misplaced arrogance.
 
backfire
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 6:36 pm

Quoting IanatSTN (Reply 5):
If I could pay less for a flight from London -> US, heck, I wouldn't mind putting up with a bit of tight legroom for a while. And I don't think I'm alone.

If it was that easy, we'd have low-cost long-hauls sprouting up all over the place. I've yet to see one which has actually cracked how to do it.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 7:24 pm

LLC have advantages in certain areas of the cost structure, which more and more work out with shorter flights. Extremely roughly sumarized and non-exhaustive enumeration of these


  • low share of fuel cost within overall cost (as opposed to long haul flights)
  • many cycles per day --> many passengers --> spread your fixed costs over many people
  • many passengers per day--> better performance of onboad sales
  • only short-haul/low-medium-haul --> one fleet type
  • rigid stationing of airplanes --> very effetive airplane/crew deployment --> almost no overnight stays, no deadheads, no aircraft positioning.


Other (unpopluar) cost saving measure which are known from the press, e.g. no unions, bad payment of staff, short turn-around times on the ground, are part of the business model, but won't work out to the same extent on long-haul.

As you can see, LLC's business strategy is through and through aligned to short haul service. But many cycles result in high airport costs, which is the reason Mr Leary is exerting so much pressure on airports and is generally avoiding big, expensive airports.

Especially at RyanAir air fares have barely any relation to the leg distance, which underlines that distance-dependent cost only have a low impact on costs, BECAUSE distances are short (and also AS LONG AS distances are short). With long-flights all these advantages simply don't work out anymore.

[Edited 2005-05-12 12:29:53]
 
Gman94
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 7:30 pm

If a 767/777/787/747/A330/A340/A380 ever takes off in Ryanair colours on a long haul service, world air forces should be immediately scrambled to shoot down the offending airfcraft and Leahy be arrested for crimes against humanity. Big grin
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
diesel1
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 7:44 pm

As usual, a thread regarding Ryanair turns into the usual O'Leary/Ryanair diatribe... In amongst the prejudice, ill informed opinion and smart@rse comments, a few salient points are introduced (but are often smothered by the naysayers...  Smile)

Let's look at the facts...


  • The Low Cost business model used by Ryanair/easyJet (and other LCCs) is suited to relatively short journeys on a point to point basis.

  • Low Cost trans Atlantic travel has been tried, and has failed - Laker AW and PeoplExpress come to mind, and no recent planned start-up has managed to launch as they can't make a business plan work.

  • Trans Atlantic flights have always been available at a far lower flight/mile cost for the passenger than intra European short haul flying (until the advent of the LCC). There are seasonal variations, but a scan of Expedia or a long distance seatbroker like Trailfinders will show this. As with the LCCs the earlier you book, the more likely you are to get a good deal

  • Trans Atlantic economy flying is not a huge profit generator for the airlines, it's the business and first class seating that's the profit cash cow

  • The 'sardine can' conditions offered by Ryanair and easyJet are no different to what is offered by many of the charter carriers, and this includes their trans Atlantic flights to the delights of the Caribbean or Florida. There's no doubt there is a demand for more comfort/service on these flights, and it will be interesting to see whether First Choice's upgraded service becomes the norm, or whether market demands for the cheapest holiday possible mean that they have to revert to the sardine can conditions for the majority of passengers

  • Deep Vein Thrombosis is an industry issue and not one that would be confined to Ryanair or indeed would be anymore prevalent to them - the best way to help avoid it is to follow the advice given, not to stick a couple of extra inches onto the seat pitch...

  • Many of the LCCs are hugely successful - they are no 'joke' and stand as independant profitable businesses that require no support from their governments to fly.


So... the facts are clear - O'Leary / Webster and many of the chief execs of other LCCs in Europe know what their market is and know what they need to do to be profitable. They don't need trans Atlantic flights - it adds no value to what they offer, instead only adding risk and cost to their existing business and thus compromising profit.
I don't like signatures...
 
drinkstrolley
Posts: 484
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 8:13 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 15):
only short-haul/low-medium-haul --> one fleet type

Don't fancy a trip LHR-LAX on a 737-200 then?
 
YOWguy
Posts: 123
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 8:15 pm

Laker airlines was a relatively successful long haul lcc, until BA put the pressure on them. That was a number of years ago , and the world economy has changed since, with much higher gas prices, fickle passengers as well as other pressures.
 
drinkstrolley
Posts: 484
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 8:20 pm

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 17):
Low Cost trans Atlantic travel has been tried, and has failed - Laker AW and PeoplExpress come to mind, and no recent planned start-up has managed to launch as they can't make a business plan work.

Why did these two go skint? And didn't Laker have another go at it some years later?
 
Doona
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 8:23 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
Scrooge O'Leary won't go for that, he does not even fly outisde the EU countries in Europe.

Since when is Norway a part of the EU?

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 8:27 pm

Quoting IanatSTN (Reply 5):
If I could pay less for a flight from London -> US, heck, I wouldn't mind putting up with a bit of tight legroom for a while.

Most long haul carriers, especially across the pond, make most of their money oin premium travelers. LCCs have been tried, and mostly failed.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
This may sound odd, but mnakes sense for a company that does not allow its employees to charge their private mobile/cellphones in the office.

Many things make sense out of principle, but the power consumption of those cellphones chargers is negligeble. Giving employees small perks which cost the company almost nothing (coffee, charging cellphones) is good for morale. I hate working for companies that feel the need to be stingy on the little things. I always focus on those instead of work...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
avek00
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 8:46 pm

Quoting IanatSTN (Reply 5):
If I could pay less for a flight from London -> US,

Is 198GBP + tax (usually available on LON-NYC/BOS for up to 6 months out of the year) not cheap enough already? Practically every TATL airline serves as a low-fare carrier during the slower periods - hence, there's little unserved demand for low TATL fares that a LCC like Ryanair can tap into.
Live life to the fullest.
 
BCAL
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 9:03 pm

It is wrong to say that low cost trans Atlantic travel has been tried and has failed, citing Laker as an example.

If anything, low cost trans Atlantic travel was a huge success. When Laker's Skytrain started, people queued outside their ticket office at London Victoria for days to get a ticket, as initially tickets were only available on the day of travel. The queues became so long (people sometimes waited for over 7 days) that the UK Government lifted the restrictions and allowed tickets to be purchased for the next available flight eventually extending to any flight. The Skytrain network expanded to include LAX, SFO and Miami.

Although the legacy carriers did not initially see Laker as a threat, when the booking restrictions were lifted they started to feel the heat. The legacy carriers offered competitive fares to Laker's Skytrain (although the number of available seats was limited). When Laker started to eye up business passengers and offered his Regency Class, and then announced that Skytrain would be expanding with European routes, the legacy carriers conspired against Laker and this is when his first airline started to go downhill leading to the liquidation.

Laker did leave his mark as trans Atlantic travel was opened up to the masses. The Skytrain concept was different to LCC's concept. As to why LCCs might not work on long haul, see the thread Would A Transatlantic L.C.C. Work? (by OB1504 Aug 23 2004 in Civil Aviation)
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
richardw
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 9:19 pm

GBP199 return flights LON-NYC/BOS are only available to those who stay a Saturday night, they are not available to many business travellers who can't stay a saturday night, they pay a lot more.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 9:29 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 21):

Since when is Norway a part of the EU?

Cheers
Mats

It is not, but it is part of Schengen and it has an air agreement with the EU, same as Switzerland (which is not part of Schengen) allowing any EU airline to fly to, from and if they want, domestic. No third country traffic rights involved.

But you 're right, its not and I made that stupid mistake once at a presentation in OSL, because I walked through the airport that day without passport or customs. Should have remembered.

Cheers
Kurt
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olympicbis
Posts: 162
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 9:38 pm

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 17):
The 'sardine can' conditions offered by Ryanair and easyJet are no different to what is offered by many of the charter carriers

These do have at least some window shades, some seat recline, and are even being upgraded ( First Choice just started it )

[quote=Drinkstrolley,reply=18]Don't fancy a trip LHR-LAX on a 737-200 then?

Knowing O' Leary, he might even be able to find a 737-100 for the occasion.
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 9:57 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 25):
GBP199 return flights LON-NYC/BOS are only available to those who stay a Saturday night, they are not available to many business travellers who can't stay a saturday night, they pay a lot more.

Yes, but the point still stands - low fares are available on Transatlantic flights, in both Economy (winter months) and Business Class (summer months).
Live life to the fullest.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 9:59 pm

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 27):

Knowing O' Leary, he might even be able to find a 737-100 for the occasion.

msn 3, 203 and 217 are said to be stored, condition unknown
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Sammyhostie
Posts: 467
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 10:00 pm

Just to go off topic slightly, the Easy group have the brand name "EasyAtlantic" protected!
 
olympicbis
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:32 pm

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 10:02 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 29):
msn 3, 203 and 217 are said to be stored, condition unknown

If it is for Ryanair, msn 3 sould be more than OK as it is probably the oldest, so cheapest one. Will be a flight to remember.......Thanks for the info PanHAM
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 10:07 pm

LCC business models work best in markets that are significantly underserved and/or where aggressive discounting is not commonplace. Neither of these traits apply to the Transatlantic market generally.

To make matters worse, the ability of LCCs to maintain a significant cost advantage against their full-service competitors is severely limited on TATL flights. LCCs would endure the same turnaround times, place their crews in the same layover hotels, fly more or less the same aircraft, and establish the same complex administrative infrastructure for handling international flying (e.g., forex issues) as their full-service rivals.

On the USA side, should LCCs seek to expand into international flying, their best bet would be to points within Latin America, where aggressive dicounting isn't the norm, markets are badly underserved, and the VFR traffic could actually SUSTAIN a LCC on its own.
Live life to the fullest.
 
diesel1
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 10:36 pm

BCAL, thanks for the reasoned, fuller explanation behind Laker's failure - at the end of the day, the fact is, the airline failed.
In the more restrictive days of the early 80s, there were no guarantees that the European network was going to come to anything, and it can be argued that the introduction of a business class was simply means of attempting to introduce a profitable revenue source as the economy service wasn't working.
I'd make the point again - it (trans Atlantic low cost) doesn't exist because it won't work. I'd be sure that if the figures stacked up, that there would be some players in the market, but.... there aren't any.

The way I'd see it would be that Laker's trans Atlantic services were certainly successful from a customer perspective, though less so from the business angle - this is regardless of any dirty tricks campaigns played by his competitors.

RichardW, you make your point about business travellers paying more - though many of these travellers aren't actually paying for their tickets, and although the LCCs do carry many business travellers, in many cases their operations are more aimed towards the leisure traveller.

Olympicbis.. more fatuous commentary... cheap shots with no foundation when it comes to what aircraft would be used. Why not base your contribution around some facts? Ryanair have one of the most modern fleets in Europe. Don't bother coming back with a comment about the Ryanair '200 series 737s - both you and me know these are being phased out and when these have gone it will be a single model, young fleet.
I don't like signatures...
 
olympicbis
Posts: 162
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 11:34 pm

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 33):
Olympicbis.. more fatuous commentary... cheap shots with no foundation when it comes to what aircraft would be used. Why not base your contribution around some facts? Ryanair have one of the most modern fleets in Europe. Don't bother coming back with a comment about the Ryanair '200 series 737s - both you and me know these are being phased out and when these have gone it will be a single model, young fleet.

Diesel1, no hard feelings. This was just for fun with the other guy who posted
" fancy LHR -LAX in a 737-200" Who doesn't know about the hundreds of 737-800s on order for Ryanair ? Btw, the -200 was and still is by far my favourite 737 - albeit not in FR colours of course, sorry.
As far as I am concerned, and again no offense, they may have a fleet of 737-800s, Fokker A380s or Concordes, good for them, I will NEVER EVER fly with them, but that 's my choice.
 
OO-VEG
Posts: 1208
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 5:31 pm

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Thu May 12, 2005 11:59 pm

Cramp an A380 with 500 seats on the lower deck and a big Casino on the upper-deck. Katsjing, there's your revenue! Big grin

OK seriously now, there will probably be some kind of long-haul low-cost operation, but there are things that need to be worked-out.
You need feeders & connection to fill a e.g. a 767 to JFK. There needs to be food on board (you can't let people die), there needs to be some kind of entertainment on board for that amount of time, and still the flight needs to be cheap. Though that may be established by feeder flights. If you get a bargain from STN to JFK you need to get to STN first. And after one bargain you probably don't mind paying that little bit extra on your flight to STN, you made your profit anyways.

And how much money will such a flight actually generate?? With the same investment you might be better of with some intra-continental flights instead.
 
TPASXM787
Posts: 1667
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:31 am

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 12:05 am

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Thread starter):
Why hasn't Mr. O'Leary decided to have a stab at the long haul market yet?

He can't fly a 737 from LHR-SYD  Silly
This is the Last Stop.
 
zonky
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:31 pm

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting OO-VEG (Reply 35):
You need feeders & connection to fill a e.g. a 767 to JFK

Do you?

I would imagine the existing LCC networks feed each other already. The LCC's just shift liability to the consumer by deeming themselves point-to-point only.
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 12:12 am

Quoting Zonky (Reply 37):
I would imagine the existing LCC networks feed each other already.

The moment you start talking connections, the costs of your operation increase significantly.
Live life to the fullest.
 
drinkstrolley
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:50 pm

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 1:16 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 23):
Is 198GBP + tax (usually available on LON-NYC/BOS for up to 6 months out of the year) not cheap enough already?

I can see your point, but it would be nice to see the famous Ryanair "99p" job for transatlantic (one way of course + taxes, charges, wheelchair levy and every other levy that they lump on you!!!).

In saying this, I fly often BOH-DUB with them and although the flight averages fifty odd minutes I probably spend a tenner on a drink(s)(needed for Dublin!!), a snack and maybe a scratchcard (becuase I'm a sad bast*rd!!). Suffice to say if I was on a Ryanair jet for eight hours I would probably drink two bottles of wine, eat four baguettes, buy 86 scratchcards and I now understand they've got in-flight films you can pay for so I'd have plenty of that as well. So once drawn in with the 99p return fare I'd spend in the region of £50.00 just for me so there's revenue there of say approximately £150.00 for a return flight.

I know he's a very controversial operator, and I am aware the heavy players rely on business class money but I would like to see him have a go. Lunatic or not / love him or hate him he has had made a major impact on the short haul euro market and everyone does take stock of what he does so it would be interesting.

Not too sure about banning his staff charging their mobile phones at work though, how much would save him on his electricity bill??? (See link below!)

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm...-ban-staff-chargers-name_page.html
 
drinkstrolley
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:50 pm

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 1:21 am

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 34):
fancy LHR -LAX in a 737-200

It was meant to highlight a typical Ryanair flight for eight hours or more in the back of a dirty, noisy 25 year old aircraft.

[Edited 2005-05-12 18:26:11]
 
drinkstrolley
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:50 pm

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 27):
Knowing O' Leary, he might even be able to find a 737-100 for the occasion.

Good friend is he?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
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RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 1:23 am

PeopleExpress when they offered EWR-LGW and EWR-BRU flights, they didn't offer meals (except snack packs for sale) all beverages were for purchase only, they had a network of flights to other cities in the USA, had a small biz/1st class on international flights, cheap prices, yet they still failed. In the early to mid-1980's the USA and UK agreed that at least two slots between the USA and the UK, mainly through EWR and LGW that was to be serviced by a LLC. There was a Scottish base charter airline service, the BCal, then PE, then PE & VS. Eventually that changed, with PE collasping for a variety of well documented reasons, and VS evolving into a mainline carrier.
So the idea of tranatlantic LCC's has been done a number of times and eventually failed for operational, economic and political reasons. It would be unwise for Ryanair or EasyJet to get into transatlantic LCC's, just keep it in the hands of charter companies with agency bookings.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5421
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 2:21 am

Ryanair long-haul? Maybe they could market the product as the "Torture Express"...
 
OO-VEG
Posts: 1208
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 5:31 pm

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 3:24 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 42):
There was a Scottish base charter airline service, the BCal, then PE, then PE & VS. Eventually that changed, with PE collasping for a variety of well documented reasons, and VS evolving into a mainline carrier.
So the idea of tranatlantic LCC's has been done a number of times and eventually failed for operational, economic and political reasons.

Though I have my doubts on the success of LCC (it needs requirements), this stuff is focussing on the '80s and early '90s. We are at 2005 now and the market may look a bit different for these kind of operations. Though we still have the food problem.

Quoting Zonky (Reply 37):
I would imagine the existing LCC networks feed each other already. The LCC's just shift liability to the consumer by deeming themselves point-to-point only.

VG Airlines tried something like this when SN went bankrupt. They had some A330 flying to JFK & BOS. from BRU. SN could get these aircraft filled but VG couldn't due to lack of feeders. I believe they signed some kind of agreement with VEX for connecting passengers, and later they started flying to the Middle-East (or Asia?) to pick-up passengers flying to the USA with a stop at BRU. But it didn't help and VG went bankrupt.
 
drinkstrolley
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:50 pm

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 3:35 am

Air Scotland (who I think market themselves as low cost) seem to be having a go at the long haul thing by leasing a couple of Tristars (L1011-500)......

http://www.air-scotland.com/otherinfo/news.asp#6
 
British767
Posts: 1523
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:17 am

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 5:02 am

I have actually just had an exam on this at school in Business Studies.

The 787 will aparentely be targetted towards LCC's, just because of the fuel effiencey whilst still have a long haul range. So I see it as perfectly possible for airlines such as U2 and FR go long haul. It's just a matter of time!
 
jmc757
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 3:36 am

RE: Ryanair Long Haul

Fri May 13, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Reply 45):
Air Scotland (who I think market themselves as low cost) seem to be having a go at the long haul thing by leasing a couple of Tristars (L1011-500)......

I literally cannot wait for this floor show to start!

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