squirrel83
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United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 8:54 am

United Airlines is not sure it can keep eight planes that a federal appeals court has ruled could be taken back by the aircraft's leaseholders. United rejected leases on six aircraft, these 8 are B767s, aircraft generally used for long haul. Already in November the leaseholders wanted to seize the aircraft. In the second half of the month United will not be out of Court, for several crucial court hearings. And Wednesday we will know if the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers will a strike: a strike that would be "suicidal."

Latest: United Airlines has won a court battle to keep hold of 14 of its aircraft.

United is challenging the right of the Chapman Group of creditors, which controls 175 of United's planes, to repossess 14 aircraft that have been used as collateral to back debt, alleging they are colluding with a broader group of aircraft creditors in violation of antitrust law.

But under the U.S. Bankruptcy Code, secured creditors have the right to repossess planes 60 days after the bankruptcy filing if they are not being paid in full, a right that is not limited by any other provision of the title or by any power of the court.

United won a temporary restraining order barring the creditors from repossessing the planes. 175 of the 460 planes United's fleet are owned by the same leaseholders, "the Chapman Group". United's unsecured creditors committee alleges the airline is being pushed to pay unfair prices on leases and loans for about 175 planes owned by a group of 30 financiers.

United has reduced its workforce by 38%.

If it turns out to be strike and leaseholders want their aircraft back the market will be flooded with some 200 aircraft. "

http://www.airfinancejournal.com/

[Edited 2005-05-12 02:02:38]
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C133
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 9:00 am

Where is the quote from?
Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
 
MarkATL
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 9:54 am

Here we go...Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am, TWA.......
"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
 
commavia
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 9:59 am

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
United Airlines is not sure it can keep eight planes that a federal appeals court has ruled could be taken back by the aircraft's leaseholders.

So are they giving them back or not? This sentence, together with the title of this thread, is a bit confusing.

Is UA merely unsure of their rights to these planes or the status of these planes' leases, or are they actively seeking to return 8 of the 767s?
 
Kahala777
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 10:21 am

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
the market will be flooded with some 200 aircraft.

America West, Spirit, Northwest, Jet Blue, Air Canada, and Mexicana would be more than happy with the availability of the A319/A320 products!

America West, Northwest, Continental, and American would be more than happy to take on the 757-200 ETOP's!

Northwest Airlines, Thai, Malaysia, Korean, JAL, Virgin Atlantic, Air France, Singapore, Cathay, China Airlines and others would be more than happy to snag a 747-400 or two!

Continental Airlines, and American Airlines are both in the market for 777-200ER's!

North American, ATA, American, and Hawaiian would all be to content with grabbing a 767-300 or two!

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
United has reduced its workforce by 38%

.. and more in the days ahead!


Regards - Kahala777
 
moose1226
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 10:52 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 4):

America West, Spirit, Northwest, Jet Blue, Air Canada, and Mexicana would be more than happy with the availability of the A319/A320 products!

America West, Northwest, Continental, and American would be more than happy to take on the 757-200 ETOP's!

Northwest Airlines, Thai, Malaysia, Korean, JAL, Virgin Atlantic, Air France, Singapore, Cathay, China Airlines and others would be more than happy to snag a 747-400 or two!

Continental Airlines, and American Airlines are both in the market for 777-200ER's!

North American, ATA, American, and Hawaiian would all be to content with grabbing a 767-300 or two!

Most of those airlines would have engine issues with UA's a/c.

A32X: UA uses IAE. NW and AC use CFM
757: UA uses PW. CO and AA use RR
744: UA uses PW. Thai, MH, JL, VS, and AF use GE. CX uses RR.
777: UA uses PW. CO uses GE. AA uses RR.
763: UA uses PW. ATA has no 767's. American uses GE.

Flooding the market with 200 airplanes is not at all good for Boeing OR Airbus...
 
ltbewr
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 11:09 am

Of course the problem with having to return these a/c is that they are probably usable for many long-haul, mainline/Hawaii, USA-Europe flights, which I would presume are UA's main profit centers. Kinda stupid isn't it, especially with the summer peak season comming soon? A question for the lessor is if they take them back, wouldn't they be out of service for a couple of months for redos for their new lessees so would lose income for a while then?
 
MarkATL
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 11:15 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
A question for the lessor is if they take them back, wouldn't they be out of service for a couple of months for redos for their new lessees so would lose income for a while then?

Perhaps they see UA as "Dead Airline Flying"? This would let them get the aircraft in the pipeline and out to new lessees at decent rates. Before the whole fleet hits the market.

[Edited 2005-05-12 04:17:07]
"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
 
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STT757
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 11:24 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 4):
America West, Northwest, Continental, and American would be more than happy to take on the 757-200 ETOP's

AA, CO and HP operate RR powered 757s, NWA and DL operate Pratts which are compatible with UAL's.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 12:04 pm

Quoting Moose1226 (Reply 5):
A32X: UA uses IAE

Great news for HP. That's 55 IAE A320's and 22 A319's to come on the market.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
tundra767
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 12:27 pm

Quoting Moose1226 (Reply 5):
763: UA uses PW. ATA has no 767's.

ATA is in the market for 767's and can't seem to find any. This would be a great source. I guess the reason for the leasing companies to take the planes would be other potential customers willing to pay for them. Asian, European airlines seem to be making money while U.S. airlines for the most part are loosing it by the plane load.
 
sv11
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 12:35 pm

I believe there may be quite a demand in Asia for these aircraft, especially the widebodies.

sv11
 
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HA_DC9
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 12:36 pm

Quoting Moose1226 (Reply 5):
763: UA uses PW. ATA has no 767's. American uses GE.

HA uses PW 763s. It is well known that they will be looking for new aircraft once they leave chapter 11 around the beginning of next month. I'm sure the UA leaseholder is well aware of this.
 
quickmover
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 12:40 pm

No offense intended to the posters on this thread, but with all of this talk about other carriers picking up bargains on aircraft, where would they get the money? I think we are about to see some major reality checks on the value of airline assets. If you can't make money flying these jets to "wherever", why paint them in your colors. Call me a pessimist, but I think these desert parking lots are going to fill up until oil drops or capacity is reduced. Keeping these same planes flying in a different livery doesn't change anything unless costs are dramatically lower or revenue is higher. Even the LCCs are challenged and if WN didn't have hedges in place for fuel, they would be losing money right now too.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 1:55 pm

ATA wants RR-767's ...

However it's not as simple as Kahala777 thinks ... and you don't get ETOPS cerification by taking over a couple of certified aircraft. It's the AIRLINE that must be certified.
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
ContinentalFan
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 2:00 pm

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 14):
ATA wants RR-767's ...

However it's not as simple as Kahala777 thinks ... and you don't get ETOPS cerification by taking over a couple of certified aircraft. It's the AIRLINE that must be certified.

There are very few RR-powered 767s in existence (mostly with BA, Qantas, and a handful of others).

True that the whole airline needs to be ETOPS certified, but it sure helps to have a plane that is already qualified.
 
777ER
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 2:29 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
United Airlines is not sure it can keep eight planes that a federal appeals court has ruled could be taken back by the aircraft's leaseholders.

So are they giving them back or not? This sentence, together with the title of this thread, is a bit confusing.

Totally agree, is UA returning aircraft or not?
 
UA772IAD
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 2:33 pm

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
nited rejected leases on six aircraft, these 8 are B767s, aircraft generally used for long haul.

Is this legitimate or is it me? First it says SIX (6) A/C, then it says EIGHT (8), then it goes on to 14 (thread topic) which is it? Or do I have the feeling that this is someones "professional opinion" or for-instance scenereo...

[Edited 2005-05-12 07:34:21]
 
stlgph
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 2:56 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
United Airlines is not sure it can keep eight planes that a federal appeals court has ruled could be taken back by the aircraft's leaseholders.

So are they giving them back or not? This sentence, together with the title of this thread, is a bit confusing.

you're not kidding. this has to be one of the most backwards thread starters i have ever read in my life.

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
In the second half of the month United will not be out of Court, for several crucial court hearings.

what the??!??!!

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
Latest: United Airlines has won a court battle to keep hold of 14 of its aircraft.

but i thought 14 aircraft were being given back

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
But under the U.S. Bankruptcy Code, secured creditors have the right to repossess planes 60 days after the bankruptcy filing if they are not being paid in full, a right that is not limited by any other provision of the title or by any power of the court.

and it gets worse.

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
United won a temporary restraining order barring the creditors from repossessing the planes.

and worse....
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doug_or
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 3:30 pm

Read a breif snipet in the NYT or WSJ on the plane yesterday- IIRC 14 a/c are eligiable for reposestion. 6 have either been given back since proceedings began or UAL was planning to get rid of anyway (don't remember). that leaves 8 that UAL may have to part with.
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EnviroTO
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 4:01 pm

I don't think AC is looking for A32x series aircraft now. They purchased the E190s which should free up some A32x series. They were looking for long haul to hold them over until their Boeing deliveries and that is all they are looking for AFAIK. This means that, if AC is still looking for long haul, they would likely only be interested in UAs 763ERs for a cheap 5-10 yr stint after winglets have been attached. They probably still are on the market for long haul in the short term because they currently seem to be having a hard time starting a new route without minor frequency reductions somewhere else to free up aircraft.
 
AussieItaliano
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 4:13 pm

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 13):
Even the LCCs are challenged and if WN didn't have hedges in place for fuel, they would be losing money right now too.

But even though most US carriers are losing money, many foreign carriers are posting record profits. It is those airlines that would most likely be in the market for picking up some of UA's aircraft if UA were to liquidate (which I hope doesn't happen).
Third Runway - LHR, Second Runway - LGW, Build Them Both!!!
 
AADC10
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 4:26 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 17):

Is this legitimate or is it me? First it says SIX (6) A/C, then it says EIGHT (8), then it goes on to 14 (thread topic) which is it? Or do I have the feeling that this is someones "professional opinion" or for-instance scenereo...

Of 14 aircraft, six have already been returned. The remaining 8 that are likely to be reposessed are 767-300s. UA could of course make a deal to keep them. There was an attempt to seize them during Thanksgiving weekend last year.

What are the other airlines that use PW powered 767-300s? I do not really know how eager airlines are to acquire 767s since Boeing is going to shut down the line due to a lack of orders. It may be mostly posturing by the leasing company to get a better deal. UA is switching some Pacific routes to 744s during the summer which could free some 772s to replace the lost 767s. UA also owns 10 old 767-200s that they could do a D-check on and return to service.
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 7:19 pm

If United folds, I think they would want the larger aircraft quickly. I know these airlines, especially CO, like the 757 on international routes, but the market would be flooded with customers.

What a mess it would be! Go United! Go United employees! I am hoping for the best.

M
 
PapaNovember
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 8:23 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 17):
Is this legitimate or is it me? First it says SIX (6) A/C, then it says EIGHT (8), then it goes on to 14 (thread topic) which is it? Or do I have the feeling that this is someones "professional opinion" or for-instance scenereo

I think this is just a very poorly written synopsis of what the http://www.airfinancejournal.com article says.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Thu May 12, 2005 10:21 pm

A loss of long haul aircraft plus a strike would spell the end of the carrier.

I smell an EA type of end coming on........
One Nation Under God
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 12:50 am

I have a feeling that UA will do anything it can to keep these 767s, even if it means paying the leasing company what it wants. Unless they can find another leasor to give them 8 PW 767s that is. UA was returning 737s anyway, but they need the 767s badly.
 
aa777jr
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 1:06 am

Quoting Moose1226 (Reply 5):
Flooding the market with 200 airplanes is not at all good for Boeing OR Airbus...

It's not gonna get better for airlines or the industry when/if Chp 7 happens for UA. (immediately anyways...)

Quoting HA_DC9 (Reply 12):
It is well known that they will be looking for new aircraft once they leave chapter 11 around the beginning of next month. I'm sure the UA leaseholder is well aware of this.

Agreed. Would look for HA to try and pick up some of the repossessed 763.

So if UA is losing their big a/c in the future, are they gonna have to keep depleting their route system as a result of not having enough a/c to service them?

Comments?
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 1:08 am

This is very sad sad news indeed. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end of that great airline...I dont understand how the 2nd largest airline in the world can be going through this mess and be on the verge of ending operation.
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
aa777jr
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 1:10 am

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 28):
I dont understand how the 2nd largest airline in the world can be going through this mess and be on the verge of ending operation

Management has had UA in a nose dive for the last 10 yrs. This shouldn't come as a surprise for anyone that knows anything about comercial aviation.

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
PVD757
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 1:11 am

Other airlines with common aircraft + engines:

UA Airbuses (IAE):

HP: could play into the potential US deal...
NK: could complete MD80 retirement/replacement almost overnight
B6: I'm sure they could use the aircraft to grow as UA shrinks
DH: unlikely, but if they turns things around and UA is forced to reduce IAD ops, could be a possibility

UA 735/733:

Univerasally common with any other carrier (for the most part):
WN, HP, CO would be likely candidates.

UA 757s (PW):

DL: unlikely, too many problems already, but maybe SONG expansion?
NW: financially able, not sure if they are willing...
UPS: just announced 5 major hub expansions...

UA 762's (PW)

I could only find ABEX/DHL with the same engines (in North America)

UA 762ER's (not sure)

charter or cargo could draw some interest in these.

Not sure what the 175 aircraft's mix is, but there are options for other carriers to use these narrowbody (and 767s) that are in UA current fleet. I do agree that engine commonality is key for any airline to be remotely intersted in acquiring additional aircraft in today's industry.
 
Kahala777
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 1:23 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 30):
Univerasally common with any other carrier (for the most part):
WN, HP, CO would be likely candidates

WN is looking for only NG 737's at this time!

HP is dropping its 737-300 in favor of A319/A320!

CO is looking for only NG 737's at this time!


Regards - Kahala777
 
UA772IAD
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 3:24 am

Thanks for the clarification everyone, I appreciate it! I also hope it's not true too, CORULEZ05...

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 26):
I have a feeling that UA will do anything it can to keep these 767s, even if it means paying the leasing company what it wants.

I agree. With what, only 37 in the fleet and my guess is 5-8 of them are domestically configured, they desperately need the long range aircrafts for INTL' flights (but they need more planes in general). I think they have a fighting chance to keep them.
 
B757capt
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 3:46 am

Hooters/ Pace is looking for some -400's and -300's.
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
douwd20
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting Quickmover:

Even the LCCs are challenged and if WN didn't have hedges in place for fuel, they would be losing money right now too.



I can guarantee that even if Southwest didn't hedge their fuel they would be making money. They've been doing it for 20yrs without a loss. They have pricing power and it comes from doing many things right and the fuel hedging is just ONE of the many things they do right.
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 29):
This shouldn't come as a surprise for anyone that knows anything about comercial aviation.

So now I don't know about commercial aviation?????????????
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
drerx7
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 6:19 am

Continental definately does not want anything to do with the 735. They are actually the least economical aircraft in the fleet. They would like to get rid of them but lease contracts (from my understanding) prevent this from happening.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
gigneil
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 6:22 am

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 14):
ATA wants RR-767's ...

I doubt that sincerely.

N
 
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mariner
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting Douwd20 (Reply 34):
I can guarantee that even if Southwest didn't hedge their fuel they would be making money.

Be careful what you guarantee - those fuel hedges are critical to Southwest's profits.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050414/earns_southwest.html?.v=8

Note especially:

"Southwest would have lost money in the quarter" as in:

"Southwest would have lost money in the quarter except for a calculated gamble made several years ago and repeated several times since. The airline has insulated itself from rising oil costs by hedging, taking options to buy most of its jet fuel in advance at lower prices."

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
commavia
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 6:32 am

Quoting Douwd20 (Reply 34):
I can guarantee that even if Southwest didn't hedge their fuel they would be making money. They've been doing it for 20yrs without a loss.

Not true. Southwest was almost completely hedged for Q1 2005 at approximately $26 per barrel. Given a general average of today's market oil prices at $49 per barrel, they would have paid approximately 88% more, or $245.2 million more, for oil in Q1, easily erasing their $76 million net profit.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 6:38 am

Neil,

He knows a lot more about the subject than you do..he is a station manager for ATA.
 
ATAV2pls10
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 14):
ATA wants RR-767's ...

No, we want GE powered 767-300ER's. The ones that are the hardest to find.
The ones that are in the highest demand. Hence, the ones we can't get a good deal on. Two chances of this happening any time soon. 1-SLIM, 2- NONE.

V2
 
PVD757
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 7:03 am

If these planes get a new home, it will not be in North America. There are LCCs in Europe and Asia that have the markets and the money to snatch the narrowbodies up tommorrow. The 767s have cargo conversion written all over them, just like the others currently flying around. Cargo planes can be old and then some. No one else wants launch-customer-age 762s except cargo boys.
 
Planesmart
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 7:10 am

Quickmover

'No offense intended to the posters on this thread, but with all of this talk about other carriers picking up bargains on aircraft, where would they get the money? I think we are about to see some major reality checks on the value of airline assets.'

Well said.

A new lease is just like a new line of credit. Do you see financiers keen to increase their exposure before the industry-wide re-organisation?

As most US-based airlines are being closely overseen by creditor teams, do you think they will be keen to have new players around the table, increased risk and further delays to a shakeout?

In the scheme of things, aircraft are a just a part of a very complex jigsaw puzzle, which will include many being taken straight out of service and dismantled to ensure they never fly again.
 
douwd20
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 7:33 am

Quoting ATAV2pls10

Not true. Southwest was almost completely hedged for Q1 2005 at approximately $26 per barrel. Given a general average of today's market oil prices at $49 per barrel, they would have paid approximately 88% more, or $245.2 million more, for oil in Q1, easily erasing their $76 million net profit.


Southwest would have simply raised their fares to compensate for any anticipated loss. They have pricing power. You can do that when your costs are lower than all the others. Do you honestly think they would have not raised fares and posted a loss? They don't have to post a loss like the other airlines. They can raise their fares, pretty much, without fears of being undercut.
 
highliner2
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 7:33 am

Anybody know roughly how many of each type UA currently has in service?
Go Cubs!
 
squirrel83
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 11:50 am

Quoting Highliner2 (Reply 45):
Anybody know roughly how many of each type UA currently has in service?

Try that ~ I found somthing interesting on UA's webpage They post their old Aircraft Fleet History . . All Ten eras . http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,2302,00.html

http://www.planemad.net/Airline/US/United_Airlines_(UA_UAL)/Fleet.htm
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
LAXintl
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RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 12:02 pm

Quoting Highliner2 (Reply 45):
Anybody know roughly how many of each type UA currently has in service?

As of May 1, 2005.

30 B737-500
62 B737-300
55 A319
97 A320
98 B757-200
36 B767-300
52 B777-200
31 B747-400
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
padcrasher
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Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:17 am

RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 12:04 pm

Quoting Douwd20 (Reply 44):
They have pricing power. You can do that when your costs are lower than all the others

Simply a guess on your part. Southwest actually did raise their fares in April and wound up with a 7% load factor drop. Compared to the industry where load factor went up. That is not pricing power.
 
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mariner
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Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: United Airlines To Return 14 Aircraft Back ..

Fri May 13, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 48):
Southwest actually did raise their fares in April and wound up with a 7% load factor drop.

To be fair, their traffic went up. It is just that their ASM's went up faster, by over 13%.

cheers

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