AirWillie6475
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Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 2:44 pm

I don't know if this has been posted before but a Cessna 152 entered the restricted airspace around D.C today. The occupants of the 152 were a couple of average Joes that claimed they were lost. They came within 3 miles of the white house, come on how stupid can you be?
 
L-188
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 2:53 pm

Not near as stupid as the feds that evacuated heaven and earth in DC.

I hope these guys get those NASA forms filed ASAP.

I wonder how much that needless panic on the part of the feds cost us the taxpayer.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
stlgph
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 2:58 pm

and now for the zinger--

i wonder how much that private pilot got paid by the feds to fly into that airspace to make it look like..."we're still vulnerable"

ho ho hum!

:p
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
L-188
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 3:01 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 2):
i wonder how much that private pilot got paid by the feds to fly into that airspace to make it look like..."we're still vulnerable"

I wasn't going to say that but I wonder if that isn't the case, after all they don't want to open up Reagan National for non-airline traffic, but AOPA and NBAA has been pushing for it.

This may have been a stunt by DHS and TSA to keep that airport closed.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 3:48 pm

A cessna 152 holds like 26 gallons of fuel thats less then a full size Suv I doubt that it would dent the white house wall as long as its going less than 100. A Honda Civic can cause more damage then a 152. Obviously there were some needless evacuations that took place. I don't think the NASA forms would help the pilots much though in getting their charges reduced.
 
EnviroTO
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 4:09 pm

The size of the aircraft didn't fit the reaction. I have seen what happens when a Cessna 152 hits a house and I can tell you the damage is less than what a car does in damage and far less than what a truck or bus could do. Even more sad is that although they overreacted (personal opinion) the plane was less than 1 minute from the White House before they intercepted it. Cessna 152s are relatively slow so a larger aircraft which travels much faster... scary to think.
 
nosedive
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 4:11 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 3):
This may have been a stunt by DHS and TSA to keep that airport closed.

Are you suggesting that TSA is intelligent?
 
stlgph
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 4:36 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 3):
I wasn't going to say that but I wonder if that isn't the case, after all they don't want to open up Reagan National for non-airline traffic, but AOPA and NBAA has been pushing for it.

seriously....a student pilot and an instructor....they cannot be that ignorant to the no fly zone around the nation's capital, especially if they are going to be going to an air show. they have got to know something about aviation.

i'm going with it's a stunt, myself.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
AgentM
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 5:36 pm

From what I've read they did know about the ADIZ, and even planned 'around' it. One account I read was saying that they planned to fly in between two restricted areas. What I get from that is they were either planning to fly between Camp David and the DC ADIZ, or they just misunderstood how the DC ADIZ works. There is a lot of misunderstanding in that you can fly around & under the IAD/DCA/BWI/ADW airspace like it's a normal class B, but the ADIZ encompasses all the class B from it's outermost 10000ft ceiling all the way to the surface (so those 1500, 2500ft, etc floors don't mean anything if you didn't file an ADIZ flight plan). That's just the north side of it.

I can't see why they flew so close to the capitol, I mean it's not hard to see that you're over or approaching a large metropolitan area and just maybe you should be talking to someone.

Does anyone know the exact path of their flight? I haven't seen anything on news sites yet. I would be really surprised if they came over the Baltimore area because of the obviousness of being around Baltimore, and enough time for the F-16 pilots to eat a nice meal before intercepting.

I'll agree with TSA stunt  Smile
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 5:38 pm

Any possibility of a "Drill".  Smile
regds
MEL
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JGPH1A
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 5:42 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
Any possibility of a "Drill".

Any possibility of a massive, hysterical, paranoid over-reaction ? I think so !! If that Cessna had hit the Capitol or the White House, it would probably have bounced off into the flower beds.

Get a grip, America !
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clipperhawaii
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 6:23 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 10):
Get a grip, America !

Get a grip? We have a grip. And the grip is strong around any perceived terrorist or terrorist act. Now, where was I before I responded to this silly comment from a foreigner?
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
flybulldog
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 10:27 pm

What I don't get is how close the plane actually got to the White House. What if it was a terrorist really bent on crashing a plane into the White House with some type of explosive in his plane? What if he was flying something a little faster than a Cessna? Seems like there are some major holes in the security system around DC.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 10:37 pm

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 5):
the plane was less than 1 minute from the White House before they intercepted it. Cessna 152s are relatively slow so a larger aircraft which travels much faster... scary to think.

Good point. Based on their reaction time, a much faster plane could have made it all the way!
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 10:49 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Thread starter):
I don't know if this has been posted before

I’m sure it was pontificated about in real time of this board.

I had a co-worker on Capitol Hill yesterday. He said it’s not too pleasant having machine gun clad officers burst into an office and tell you to run for your life with no info.

And our country deploys an army in and around DC. Much ado about nothing, in my opinion.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 10:54 pm

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 11):
Get a grip? We have a grip. And the grip is strong around any perceived terrorist or terrorist act. Now, where was I before I responded to this silly comment from a foreigner?

Thank you, well said!!

Quoting Flybulldog (Reply 12):
What if it was a terrorist really bent on crashing a plane into the White House with some type of explosive in his plane?

Of course, that's why I'm surprised at all the comments implying that a C-150 would bounce off into the garden. Thank God some of you aren't in charge. Do you remember after 9/11 that they found that there was an attempt to get cropdusters for chemical/bacterial distribution? yeah, I know, not unlike "Goldfinger". Agree with the rules ,actions, etc. or not there has to be zero tolerance or why do anything.
I would prefer this post to end or some of us may say things that should be avoided on this nice aviation website.
 
sacflyer
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 11:21 pm

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 15):
on this nice aviation website.

Which website is that? Do you have a link?
I'm just happy that RR ratings can't be in negative numbers!
 
theunclesam
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Thu May 12, 2005 11:30 pm

Oh great, Daley's at it again!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,1,7425994.story?coll=chi-news-hed

If you can't read it, basically Daley wants to have the airspace over Chicago restricted. I wonder how long until he poses a toll for wanting to fly in his air?  Yeah sure
"So what's your robot do?" "Collects data about the surrounding enviroment. Then drives into walls."
 
lapa_saab340
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Fri May 13, 2005 12:58 am

There is a lot of misunderstanding in that you can fly around & under the IAD/DCA/BWI/ADW airspace like it's a normal class B, but the ADIZ encompasses all the class B from it's outermost 10000ft ceiling all the way to the surface (so those 1500, 2500ft, etc floors don't mean anything if you didn't file an ADIZ flight plan).

The ADIZ includes all the surface area of the class B from the surface up to 17,999ft (not the class B ceiling). Above that you're in class A so you're under a flight plan anyway.

The restricted areas they said they'd be flying between could be the Camp David prohibited area to the northwest and the ADIZ, or the ADIZ and the retricted area around NAS Patuxent River southeast of DC.

While ADIZ violations are common, I find it hard to believe these guys managed to penetrate so deep and not realize they were near downtown DC until they were 3 miles from the White House (if that is indeed as close as they got...?).

Interestingly enough, AOPA had recently been making a strong push to relax the ADIZ restrictions in the DC area, and reopen National to GA traffic...
 
ltbewr
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Fri May 13, 2005 1:08 am

As noted above, the issue with a small general private aircraft in such critical airspace as a major city like DC, is the fear of it containg high explosives, chemicals, biohazrds, or nuclear material and dumping/exploding it. And it wouldn't have to be 'middle eastern males' doing it either, as it could also be some anti-government nutcase. I recall that about 10 years ago a small GA crashed within the White House grounds, piloted by a nutcase.
As the pilot here did enter space he should have been well aware to be careful of, good VFR situation, clear signs of a place not to be in, not responding by radio when first entered the embargoed area and legitment fears, then there was a good case for the attention given to this incursion. I hope this pilot gets a substantual suspension of his license and be required to learn the special rules for flying in the DC and other urban areas.
 
theunclesam
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Fri May 13, 2005 1:15 am

The real problem here is that Joe Public will believe anything these idiots (Politicians) say when it comes to "National Security". The safety of the Capitol is NOT what these politicians care about; it's about getting re-elected. And to do that you have to make Joe Public think you are a good guy and what better scapegoat than something that most people don't have a clue about?

I think it's very important for those of us who do have a clue to educate people about this kind of stuff. If you fly, please take a friend or colleague at work up sometime. Don't put them through steep turns, and short finals; but show them the beauty of flight and the knowledge and skill you have acquired from your years of practice and the thousands you have spent. The more educated people are about what we do, the more they'll understand that these politicians are out ONLY to keep their jobs.
"So what's your robot do?" "Collects data about the surrounding enviroment. Then drives into walls."
 
sacflyer
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Fri May 13, 2005 7:49 am

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 11):
Get a grip? We have a grip. And the grip is strong around any perceived terrorist or terrorist act.

I think it was the perception part of it that he was talking about.
I'm just happy that RR ratings can't be in negative numbers!
 
SPREE34
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Fri May 13, 2005 9:55 am

All of this non-sense in D.C. has proven one thing. The terrorist have been successful. Paranoia now rules the day. Freedom has been diminished, and will continue to be, because we can't seem to "get over it" and move on.

JGPH1A said..."Any possibility of a massive, hysterical, paranoid over-reaction ? I think so !! If that Cessna had hit the Capitol or the White House, it would probably have bounced off into the flower beds.

Get a grip, America ! "

Like it or not, the guy is right. Closed borders, with airliners landing outside of the US for screening, then taking off again for the US destination may be in our future.

Ready for the National ID card?
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: Plane Enters DC Restricted Airspace

Fri May 13, 2005 10:47 am

Why does everyone make such a security fuss!! I would rather be safe than sorry, and I know that I'm not taking anything onto a plane that could cause harm to it. LET THE PEOPLE DO THEIR JOBS!! I know everyone says we haven't gotten over it, well o well maybe we have maybe we haven't who knows. As a matter of fact I would love wonder maybe JUST MAYBE how many peoples lives just may have been saved do to the upping in security. I would never have guessed that aviation enthusiasts would complain about trying to keep what they care about safer it almost disgusts me. I know that some rules are to harsh but there's always the good and bad, it just seems to me that most of the people on the boards love to bring out the bad. But hey that's only my opinion Big grin
~Brandon
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