F9HNLPLZ
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:53 am

Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:13 am

Here is an email that is circulating from the Travelexpert.com:

"1. A judge Tuesday approved cash-starved United Airline's request
to hand over its pension obligations to the Pension Benefit
Guaranty Corp (i.e. you and me, the taxpayer). United's unions
have recently been threatening to strike if this came to pass.
While the bankruptcy judge revoked the right of the unions to
strike, there is the possibility of "go slow" actions known as
CHAOS (create havoc around our system) that can create
significant delays and flight cancellations. So watch the news
carefully over the next few days before you book on United. If
any strike or "go slow" occurs, United will likely enter a
death spiral as travelers book away, resulting in the threat
of liquidation."

So see, if the strike stuff continues or CHAOS happens, it will for sure do bad things to UNITED. I challenge the people in support of the strikes and CHAOS to prove this stupid Travel Agent email wrong and DON'T STRIKE!!
Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:16 am

Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me  Smile
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
sanjet
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:58 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:24 am

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me

At one point, you have to say no N754PR. These employees sacrificed a lot already and I hope this can get this solved soon.
Will Fly For Food!
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:24 am

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me

Sounds like a no-win situation to me. The workers are probably going to get screwed either way.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
aa777flyer
Posts: 1017
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 8:45 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:26 am

Both the FA's and the IAM have now stated the will not strike. So UAL is safe.
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
UALramperORD
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:59 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:27 am

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me

It beats working for 12 dollars an hour doing ramp work.  Yeah sure
"Roger, cleared to push spot 3"
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:29 am

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 4):
So UAL is safe.

Even without the strike they're still losing money, even worse than last year at this time.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
F9HNLPLZ
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:53 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:33 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 6):
Even without the strike they're still losing money, even worse than last year at this time.

But most of the loss this time was the bankruptcy stuff. Once they get this taken care of, they will be in the same position as everyone else, except Southwest and Jetblue.
Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
 
sebring
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:37 am

UAL has $2.2 billion in cash, and much of their first quarter loss was attributable to non-cash charges. They're not out of the woods by a long shot, but so long as there is no long-term labor disruption, they can certainly make it to next winter. This is the seasonally stronger time of year, and if fuel were to remain under $50 and even go a bit lower, they should add to their cash for the next few months.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:46 am

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 5):
It beats working for 12 dollars an hour doing ramp work. Yeah sure

Quit.

AAndrew
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:50 am

The unions are involved in negotiations with United regarding reaching a settlement before the judge rules.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050512/united_airlines.html?.v=15

I have read the companies proposal along with the IAM and AMFA counter proposals (available on their respective web sites) They are really not that far apart, with the unions basically having conceded to most of the companies needs. One must remember both the IAM and AMFA have been working for months under a court imposed temporary cuts which mirror the voluntary cuts taken by other unions in 2004. Much of these talks basically are to formalize the current terms of the temporary cuts.

I venture to guess AMFA is nearly complete, with IAM taking a bit longer.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 11:06 am

ualramperord,
dont know your situation but.....try and find a job in chicago that needs ramp experience that is gonna pay more than 12.00/hr your not fooling anyone but yourself if you think that you will be picked up by another carrier and make the big dinero...
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 11:40 am

*sigh*

Yet another anti-UA thread...they're making progress guys. Maybe not fast enough for you, but they're making it nonetheless. Look at the breakdown of the 1Q report. Yeah, they lost money, but look how they lost it. The base operation is showing a strong comeback as the result of reorganization. Were it not for higher fuel costs, UA would have had an operational profit for the entire quarter. Their cash balance increased during the quarter. Nearly 75% of the loss was due to one-time fees and other reorganization costs that won't have to be paid once they're out of Chapter 11.

There is work to be done, yes. But UA is far from dead, and I think we've discussed the situtation to death.
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 11:53 am

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 5):
t beats working for 12 dollars an hour doing ramp work.

You'd rather work for your 25$ a week strike pay than make 12 dollars an hour?

Man, that makes a lot of sense.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 12:56 pm

freindlyskies,
its only in canales best interst to make this work and put a positive spin on it to dish out to the minions...funny thing is this strike vote was nothing more than to divert the attention away from the fact that they are stealing a boat load of $$$$$$ every month away from the ground workers and blame it on the company......factiod for all of those that are drinking from the well of rev jim jones canale.....IF and thats a big IF that randy pulls off a perfecta and get some paycuts back to us...guess what...we pay more in union dues....remember minions...our dues are based on our hourly salary...
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 1:24 pm

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Thread starter):
I challenge the people in support of the strikes and CHAOS to prove this stupid Travel Agent email wrong and DON'T STRIKE!!

CHALLENGE THIS...

United is already in a death spiral. The well compensated senior management IS NOT MAKING SACRIFICES that earn the respect of the rank and file and the business plan is destined to fail.

Sometimes you have to take a stand to protect your own sense of self worth. I was an Eastern Air Lines employee who participated in the strike against Lorenzo. We lost our jobs but Lorenzo was forever banned from the airline industry. Did we "win"? You bet we did. We lost our jobs but we kept our dignity and life went on....we got jobs at other companies and it's behind us now.

Today I'm with Delta, a fantastic company. Delta management, starting with Grinstein and all the way down, has taken the same pay cuts as the rest of us and is sacrificing every day just like the rest of us. If (when) Delta files bankruptcy, the employees will be behind management and we will recover.

(P.S. Good travel agents aren't "stupid", they're priceless.)
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18198
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 1:40 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 15):
If (when) Delta files bankruptcy, the employees will be behind management and we will recover.

Um - easy. Your CEO is so determined not to file that the cash balance is being drained to a precarious position.

It costs a deal of money to go into Chapter 11. You should cross your fingers that Delta has enough, because if it is delayed much longer, they won't have enough.

Or - to put it another way - people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 1:43 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 15):
The well compensated senior management IS NOT MAKING SACRIFICES that earn the respect of the rank and file

Were did you get the executive management team are not making pay sacrifices? Like all rank and file employees the management has taken repeated cuts since 9/11.
If you are talking about the bonuses received by members of the management that the unions want to make such a big deal about, these bonuses are exactly the same one each and every United employee received as part of the company meeting performance goals during early 2005. These performance bonus payments were a part of the previously union agreed upon paycuts that had been in place since 2004.

There have been plenty of threads here previously discussing pay rates for the UA CEO. One must keep in mind the board went looking for him and had to make him an attractive offer. The man headed one of the largest corporations in the US previously and certainly was not going to come over to United and work for pennies on the dollar.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
bigb
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 1:52 pm

I say, let em strike.
ETSN Baber, USN
 
AA B777-200
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 5:15 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 1:56 pm

Jetdeltamsy,

Matt... Thanks for a great reaction. I totally agree. It's about time people take a stand!
Where do you draw the line when it comes to making sacrifices.

But I do keep my fingers crossed for all the thousands of UAL employees!
 
User avatar
zippyjet
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 1:58 pm

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Thread starter):
"go slow" actions known as
CHAOS (create havoc around our system)

Here in the State Of Maryland, this is business as usual and we get to pay some hefty taxes!

Seriously, this sounds like a smear spam email. Look before you leep and good luck to you all!
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
hoya
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:25 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 2:02 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 6):
Even without the strike they're still losing money, even worse than last year at this time.

UA made a $54 million operating profit in March. This means that all the service cuts they imposed in March (remember, they were supposed to reduce domestic flying by like 10% or something around that in March) are working in producing positive cash flow. Key quote from the article linked below:

"Operating results are a good gauge of an airline’s performance, Mr. Gorden says, because they don’t include bookkeeping transactions that drive up net losses, but that don’t necessarily drain cash.

Air travel is a seasonal business that typically peaks in July and falls off during the fall and winter months. So, the fact that United performed well in March typically would bode well for its performance during the key summer months."

Source: Crain's Chicago Business
http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=16478

[Edited 2005-05-13 07:10:11]
Hoya Saxa!!
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9855
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RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 3:21 pm

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 5):
Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me

It beats working for 12 dollars an hour doing ramp work.

$12 per hour is better then getting nothing if you were unemployeed
Head Forum Moderator
moderators@airliners.net
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 3:22 pm

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Thread starter):
So watch the news
carefully over the next few days before you book on United. If
any strike or "go slow" occurs, United will likely enter a
death spiral as travelers book away, resulting in the threat
of liquidation."

You know...it's CRAP like this that REEEEEEAALLLLLLLYYYYY pisses me off. It's ignorant comments based on misinformtion and assumptions that just might kill UA anyway. Fucking ignorant people. Listen to whatever the "industry analysts" and the "experts" say...they book away from UA, and it becomes a self-fufilling prophecy. Remind me again why I hate the fucking ignorant news media again...

Quoting Mariner (Reply 16):
It costs a deal of money to go into Chapter 11. You should cross your fingers that Delta has enough, because if it is delayed much longer, they won't have enough.

Or - to put it another way - people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Yes sir...100% dead on. UA had $3B in cash, PLUS VALUABLE ASSETS, to put up as collateral when they entered Ch. 11 in 12/2002. Guess what? DL has NONE OF THAT...IF...IF...they sell their two regional carriers...they can DELAY a filing (assuming the tough revenue and fuel cost enviornment persists.) for Ch. 11. UA was able to secure DIP financiing using their LHR and NRT slots as collateral, plus their uncumbered aircraft as of 12/9/2002. DL ain't got them apples...

We'll see. Let's celebrate UA's death just yet, OK? UA is the one who will psot $54mm/month LESS going forward. They will now get exit financing needed to emerge. If DL files, maybe they reemerge, and maybe they don't.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 3:34 pm

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Thread starter):
So see, if the strike stuff continues or CHAOS happens

Remember, CHAOS means....

Customers
Have
American Airlines
On
Speed Dial
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
UAMAYBACH1239
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 3:48 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 11):
your not fooling anyone but yourself if you think that you will be picked up by another carrier and make the big dinero...

I ca

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 11):
dont know your situation but.....

You are right you dont know the situation.......
 banghead 
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
UAMAYBACH1239
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 3:53 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 17):
Were did you get the executive management team are not making pay sacrifices? Like all rank and file employees the management has taken repeated cuts since 9/11.

What have you been smoking ?? I'll take 2
 Confused
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
UAMAYBACH1239
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 3:56 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 22):
$12 per hour is better then getting nothing if you were unemployeed



Actually its not. Unemployment compensation is better.
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
UAMAYBACH1239
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 4:01 pm

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Thread starter):
I challenge the people in support of the strikes and CHAOS to prove this stupid Travel Agent email wrong and DON'T STRIKE!!

I challenge you not to write anymore threads.
 Cool
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
UAMAYBACH1239
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 4:07 pm

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me

I can only wish for you to be in this same position, and have sarcasm
directed at yourself.... I forgot the air is thin up there.  Embarrassment
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
UAMAYBACH1239
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 4:23 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 22):
$12 per hour is better then getting nothing if you were unemployeed

Its not about just 12 dollars its a number of things. Its for health care, retirement , workers rights. Its not about giving up benefits either.
the benefits was taken no real explanation...

It say a lot when employees would rather shut em down, versus giving up more concessions. It speaks volumes on how they treat workers.
 alert 
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11002
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 4:39 pm

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 5):
It beats working for 12 dollars an hour doing ramp work.

That's $24,960 a year, not counting overtime or holiday time. A pretty good (not a great) wage, unless you have to pay all those Chicago and Ill taxes.

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 9):
Quit.

Exactly!

I know Mcdonalds cannot beat $12 an hour, maybe Home Depot or Wal-Mart can.

 Wink
 
AussieItaliano
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 5:09 pm

Quoting BigB (Reply 18):
I say, let em strike.

LOL! This reminds me of the quote from the movie airplane, "I say, let 'em crash!"
Third Runway - LHR, Second Runway - LGW, Build Them Both!!!
 
B707Stu
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:15 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 7:16 pm

What's that sound I hear, I think it's the sound of the death knell.
 
zkeye
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:05 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 7:25 pm

I was prompted to join by some of these anti management posts.

Union people always seem to feel that they are owed a living by the company that employs then. For god’s sake - if you don't like the pay and conditions - leave! Don't moan, don't sabotage other peoples employment prospects, don't provide poor service, don't create CHAOS - leave! The market will decide if you were right - if someone picks up your job on its current pay and conditions then it proves that you are not irreplaceable. If the job isn't filled then the company will have to adjust pay and conditions so it is.

All the bitching about management getting paid large sums is nonsense. They are paid for the skills and experience they bring to the job and they are not easily replaced – there just aren’t that many people in the world who are genuinely capable of the job. I mean no disrespect to anyone in a $12.00 per hour job but you don't have the skills of Bethune (though I don't much care for the guy) - that’s why he was paid big $$$$$ per year.

End of rant. I am sorry that my 1st post was such a negative one.

[Edited 2005-05-13 12:40:05]
Bring out the gimp
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 7:32 pm

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 5):

It beats working for 12 dollars an hour doing ramp work.

If your life is so bad, why don't you just end it? Or at least quit the job you so hate? If you choose the latter, be sure to practice saying "Would you like fries with that?"
 
galapagapop
Posts: 861
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 8:15 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
That's $24,960 a year, not counting overtime or holiday time. A pretty good (not a great) wage, unless you have to pay all those Chicago and Ill taxes.

Actually thats a low wage and well below the average for the US.
 
F9HNLPLZ
Topic Author
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:53 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 9:14 pm

Quoting UAMAYBACH1239 (Reply 28):

I challenge you not to write anymore threads

Ah excuse me, but this is America and I can do what I want, as long as its legal. I posted this thread because that email goes out to about 1 million people. I am trying to show that people like ualdc8contral and others like him that work for UAL are right and telling the union they are way off base. It is obvious that you feel your business of concrete pumps will not be affected by this. Well, the whole Reaganomics thing will come back into play. Yes, I don't like it either, but money works its way down the system.  

LONG LIVE UNITED AIRLINES---- IT'S TIME TO FLY!!!
IT'S ALSO TIME TO BUY TICKETS ON THEM AND GO SOME PLACE THIS SUMMER, SO DO IT!!!!  Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile

[Edited 2005-05-13 14:17:26]
Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 9:32 pm

Word from my sources at United Customer Service and Ramp at Dulles is that a strike would start on Thursday, May 19, if an agreement isn't reached with management.

My neighbor says that management brought in cake and ice cream (is this kindergarten??) yesterday to thank employees for United Dulles' great on time performance, etc. The employees refused to eat it. Cake and ice cream don't really make up for massive pay and benefit cuts.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 9:36 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 35):
? If you choose the latter, be sure to practice saying "Would you like fries with that?"

Yes because Ramping is the same as flipping burgers.  no 

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 35):
If your life is so bad, why don't you just end it?

Please....I don't see anyone jumping off a cliff.  irked 
"The low fares airline."
 
LO231
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 9:45 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 23):
So watch the news
carefully over the next few days before you book on United. If
any strike or "go slow" occurs, United will likely enter a
death spiral as travelers book away, resulting in the threat
of liquidation."

It pisses me off that some of the travel agents are so stupid. As for us, we DO issue UA tickets and continue to do so as long as they keep flying to Brussels.

I remember when SR as SN were in trouble, that's when they needed support the most. And when they folded, passengers weren't left behind, there are insurances in cases like this to refund issued tickets or accomodate pax on different airllines. Been there, got the T-shirt.

Good luck UA and the employees...

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 15):
(P.S. Good travel agents aren't "stupid", they're priceless.)

Thank you.  praise 

LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:41 pm

Quoting ZKEYE (Reply 34):
All the bitching about management getting paid large sums is nonsense.

You mean, just like all the bitching about unions being out to destroy whatever company they contract with is nonsense?

Quoting ZKEYE (Reply 34):
They are paid for the skills and experience they bring to the job and they are not easily replaced – there just aren’t that many people in the world who are genuinely capable of the job.

In the US, some CEO's are paid 400 times what their lowest paid worker gets. I've seen folks who work their ass off and willingly give up their whole life for the good of the company. Even these extremely motivated and determined folks are worth maybe 2 or 3 other people. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is worth 400 other workers. On top of that, many CEO's are guaranteed fat severance packages even if they screw over the company and leave everyone else to find their own parachute. How can this be?

It's almost like we're still living with rail barons and oil tycoons.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
tothestars
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:52 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 10:55 pm

Travel Agents opinions? They don't have the power that they once had.
Much luck to the hard working employees at UA from a former TWer.
TWA-Airline To the Stars
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 11:00 pm

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me

Sure, lets shut the place down for good...that will really show them who the boss is.......
 drunk 

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 15):
Delta management, starting with Grinstein and all the way down, has taken the same pay cuts as the rest of us and is sacrificing every day just like the rest of us. If (when) Delta files bankruptcy, the employees will be behind management and we will recover.

When they lay off 29 unneeded VP's of this or that, then I'll believe it.
One Nation Under God
 
christao17
Posts: 902
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:14 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 11:01 pm

Arrggh! It is so frustrating when people make statements that simply are factually incorrect. The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is not funded from general taxes, it is funded by the companies that have the pension programs that PBGC covers. It even says so on their own web site: http://www.pbgc.gov/about/default.htm

Scare tactics, all scare tactics!

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Thread starter):
Here is an email that is circulating from the Travelexpert.com:

"1. A judge Tuesday approved cash-starved United Airline's request
to hand over its pension obligations to the Pension Benefit
Guaranty Corp (i.e. you and me, the taxpayer).
Keeping the "civil" in civil aviation...
 
slider
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RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 11:19 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 23):
It's ignorant comments based on misinformtion and assumptions that just might kill UA anyway. Fucking ignorant people.

Don't look at the article on CNN.com in the Travel section then.

Focuses on the threat of "booking away" and interviews several fliers.
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
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RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Fri May 13, 2005 11:50 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 23):
It's ignorant comments based on misinformation and assumptions that just might kill UA anyway. Fucking ignorant people. Listen to whatever the "industry analysts" and the "experts" say...they book away from UA, and it becomes a self-fufilling prophecy.

Why is it "ignorant" for a travel agent to book away if they're seeing report after report that indicates a strike might be imminent? A travel agent's responsibility is to his/her customers, not United, and protecting a customer (especially a business traveler, who's time is valuable) is just good business.

I usually buy my tickets well in advance. Right now, I wouldn't buy a ticket on Independence Air for more than a month or two out, because - unfortunately - my best judgement is that I-Air is going to fail before the end of the year. Yeah, I could get the money back from my credit card and all that, but it's just hassle I can live without. Am I "ignorant" for taking I-Air's situation into account when making decisions and booking away?

You're right in the sense that some of the analysts overplay the stories and people (and travel agents) can over-react, and there is the risk of it becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, but both UA and the unions have to take that into account when they're beating each other up in the media and threatening to go on strike.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 40):
It pisses me off that some of the travel agents are so stupid. As for us, we DO issue UA tickets and continue to do so as long as they keep flying to Brussels.

I remember when SR as SN were in trouble, that's when they needed support the most. And when they folded, passengers weren't left behind, there are insurances in cases like this to refund issued tickets or accommodate pax on different airlines.

Again, why is it "stupid" for a travel agent to want to help her/his customers avoid hassles? It's not the job of travel agents, or passengers, to "support" airlines...they're just vendors we buy services from. And sure, passengers will get reaccommodated...after hours, and in many cases days, of problems, inconvenience, and, for those stranded away from home, hotel expenses. And UA is a hell of a lot larger than SN was - this process will be an order of magnitude more difficult.

Last Monday, if I was a travel agent and I saw the reports in the press and read the AFA's website, I probably would have suggested that travelers consider avoiding UA for same-day or next-day travel for a few days until the pension ruling came out and we saw the unions' reactions, and until we saw whether or not aircraft reposession was imminent. In hindsight, it wouldn't have been necessary, but it would have been prudent.

Quoting SATX (Reply 41):
In the US, some CEO's are paid 400 times what their lowest paid worker gets. I've seen folks who work their ass off and willingly give up their whole life for the good of the company. Even these extremely motivated and determined folks are worth maybe 2 or 3 other people. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is worth 400 other workers.

Well, yes and no. Yes, there has been an upward spiral of COO compensation in the US lately, and the "gut reaction" of a lot of people - even a die-hard capitalist like me - is that this is getting out of hand.

But "2 or 3 other people"? Well, even if I presume you mean "average employee", not the lowest-paid people, it doesn't work. Let's take my company, for example. I work for a very large bank. If I had to take a SWAG at our average compensation only for the most expensive places - US, Western Europe, Japan, it'd be in the neighbourhood of $125k/year.

So if I used your "3 other people", that'd mean that the COO of a concern with tens of thousand of employees scattered across the entire planet, assets measured in billions, and all the responsibility that comes with that...would get paid $375,000 per year. Not realistic. Not even close.

Now if you took the "3 next highest paid people" in my firm, the COO'd probably get a huge raise, since there are traders who make as much, or more, as he does. Bottom line, though, is there is no simple or arbitrary "3x" or "10x" or whatever equation to determine COO pay.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Sat May 14, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 12):
Yet another anti-UA thread...they're making progress guys. Maybe not fast enough for you, but they're making it nonetheless.

And it's a United backer to the rescue!! Let's face it...People that are critical of United will always find bad news to report, and backers of United will always make those people out to be United haters, who just want to see the company go down in a burning ring of fire...

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 23):
You know...it's CRAP like this that REEEEEEAALLLLLLLYYYYY pisses me off. It's ignorant comments based on misinformtion and assumptions that just might kill UA anyway. Fucking ignorant people

Uh, StevenUhl777?? One word. "Meow".

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Reply 37):
Ah excuse me, but this is America and I can do what I want, as long as its legal.

Man you are a patriot. I wish everyone was as "American" as you are Yeah sure
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Sat May 14, 2005 12:36 am

Actually, I would personally welcome $12.00 per hour as I have been working for Travel Agency 100 miles west of a Chicago and STILL make less than $9.00 per hour. When I started at this agency back in 1989, I was hired on at $3.50 per hour...Of course thats when minimum wage was still stuck at $3.35 per hour....
I too have no medical/dental bennies and whatever we now as Travel Agents are given by airlines as travel benefits is a FRIGGING JOKE. When I started in 1989....It was great, Airlines actually worked with us and we happily sold them and they made money and they gave us lots of perks.
Its kind of funny at about the time that airlines too and including United decided to cut our commsions and do all their reservations CLIENT DIRECT via the INTERNET, they all seemed to take great nosedives....
You all may say that Travel Agencies charge fees, well because airlines took away our commisions we are forced to. Basically, Airlines have passed on the burden of paying a Travel Agent to the Passenger.
Before commsion cuts and before internet booking client direct, the majority of airline reservations were made thru travel agencies and airlines could get away with charging airfares that actually let them pay their bills and payroll ratehr than bleeding them to death... and no one bitched about it. Now everybody thinks they have to have the "El-Cheapo" fares and now the airlines are dying.
ETKTS ETKTS ETKTS to save the airlines money......ValuJet was the FIRST!!!
Travel Agent commsions were cut then eliminated to Save airlines money....
Next, 10% Senior Citizen Discounts went byebye, to save airlines money...
9/11--Airline scapegoat for all to blame for their losing money...
Removal of Creature comforts such as inflight meals or specialty meals or any other expected luxury for being stuck in an aluminum tube for a few hours...
Dumping massive fleets of owned aircraft just to keep up with the "AirlineJone's" and taking on massive fleets new leased aircraft that in a million years they could never make the monthly payments on....

Why do we even ask, why airlines like UAL are headed for history books????
Maybe United should be left to die....No one helped the likes of Eastern Airlines nor did anyone Help Braniff International when they shut down in 1982. How about poor Vanguard Airlines or Las Vegas based National Airlines?? No one stepped in to help them....I hate to say it but I think that the guys in Elk Grove Village need to either crap or get off the pot. The Upper Echelon of UAL needs to take serious pay cuts and to put that money back into the company. It may not be much but it certainly would help a little.

As a sidebar, I just wonder if UAL does go TU..will Southwest move its operation over to O'Hare...Thats alot of space to fill and I am sure they could do it...and to add insult to unjury make money at it....

Anyway, thats all I have to say.

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
mrcomet
Posts: 575
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RE: Warnings Start About UAL

Sat May 14, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 15):
Sometimes you have to take a stand to protect your own sense of self worth. I was an Eastern Air Lines employee who participated in the strike against Lorenzo. We lost our jobs but Lorenzo was forever banned from the airline industry. Did we "win"? You bet we did. We lost our jobs but we kept our dignity and life went on....we got jobs at other companies and it's behind us now.

This is a load of horsecrap. If you don't like UAL or any carrier: quit. Don't bring the carrier down with you. That's your idea of dignity? Sounds like self justification by some pretty low people.

I'm not defending UAL management who has been fantastically inept but there is a reason unions are irrelevant everywhere in America except in the airline industry. But that will change too when they kill off their last part of the industry that will hire them (full service carriers).
The dude abides