FlyingTexan
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So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 2:55 am

So when does Southwest start Memphis?

http://www.abc24.com/news/local/stor...5BF340-A2FC-4517-AC04-E0446C043BBA

Mentions Southwest and Memphis in the same breath.

Memphis historically has high airfares. Suppose Northwest will oppose Southwest’s fight to remove the regulatory Wright Amendment?

And I heard a rumor that Southwest is eyeballing gates at Shelby. And now the article – coincidence?
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luv2fly
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 3:16 am

I believe there are bigger fish to fry then MEM right now.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 3:20 am

That article is all speculation, no substance at all. Some wishful thinking from the media that the Wright Amendent elimination would suddenly start service to MEM. In fact it would probably have the reverse effect and now WN would reallocate aircraft to fly to current destinations that cannot serve from DAL, not immediately opening up new stations.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 3:40 am

MEM=BNA! WN would LUV to fly DAL-BNA, and in order to rustle up some support for the elimination of Wright are dangling the carrot of WN service to MEM, but they really mean the state of Tennessee, ie: BNA.
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PanAm747
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 3:43 am

Too bad WN can't open up a new airport on the Arkansas side of the Mississippi river (or the Mississippi side for that matter)...then they could fly out of DAL to the Memphis area all they wanted.

I wonder how many people drive to LIT from MEM to catch WN.
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yyz717
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 3:44 am

The lack of WN service to MEM is like a big hole in the WN network. MEM is one of the few remaining cities in the mid-south not to receive WN service.

With tons of gate capacity and under-utilized runways, MEM would seem to be a sure bet for WN.
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FATFlyer
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 4:01 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
Too bad WN can't open up a new airport on the Arkansas side of the Mississippi river

You mean like using AWM? I've seen people suggest that facility before as a way for WN to servce Memphis from DAL. The runway is 6000 feet but I don't think the airport has the terminal facilities needed.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAWM
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Indy
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 4:15 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 1):
I believe there are bigger fish to fry then MEM right now.

I would have to agree. I was looking at metro areas for another topic and I still had the page open so I thought I would add a reason why WN wouldn't be in a big rush.

Memphis is the 42nd ranked metro area in the US with a population of 1.08 million. While I am sure WN will eventually fly to MEM simply because it is a top 50 market I don't know if it is big enough to make them put alot of effort in to it. WN seems to have its focus on big markets right now like MDW, DFW and PHL.
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sampa737
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 4:27 am

West Memphis, Ar, just across the river, has been metioned in years past as an alternative to MEM. There is no scheduled air service to West Memphis, mainly crop dusters. People drive or take the "Bette Bus" to Little Rock and Nashville to catch Southwest flights all the time. There has been speculation and outcrys from residents of MEM for years. Memphis Airport Authority always replies that Memphis has a premium airline and premium service at premium prices. I fly Delta.
 
Indy
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 4:28 am

That is a very tough call. Do you bring in WN and risk NW moving out because of it and lose all those NS routes that NW flies out of MEM just to save some money on a ticket? I guess it boils down to what is more important. Savings on a ticket or NS service.
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sampa737
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 4:49 am

And, just to mention...ABC 24/UPN 30 are the 4th and 5th rated newscasts in Memphis. It's sweeps weeks and they are trying to get viewers. Southwest has been a hot topic in Memphis for years. It draws attention when a station opens with "Southwest may be coming!" One of the other stations did a survey not long ago and asked people if they'd rather the service NW gives or cheaper airfares on WN. NW won out. They have become the hometown airline and NW continues to add destinations. There is a pride factor being a hub with several international nonstops. MEM just celebrated 10 years to Amsterdam.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 4:50 am

The article implies that WN would go to MEM if they could fly to DAL.
If the Wright Amendment is lifted, I highly doubt you would see WN quickly jump into MEM. In fact it would change a lot of their priorities.
You'd see WN open routes from DAL to MDW, PHL, MHT, BWI, RDU, TPA, LAX, SLC, MCI, MCO, OAK, ONT, SAN, SJC, etc.

Thus there are many bigger fish to fry should WN be able to fly to wherever they want from DAL than starting service to MEM.
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 5:08 am

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 11):
NW won out.

Did they survey those Memphis residents who drive to lower fares in Little Rock and Nashville?

Southwest will win out over time with reasonable fares, no gouging change fees, ability to change names on reservations, and their no BS attitude among numerous other things.

BTW – I just checked AA’s one way walk up fare DFW-MEM. Its $489 for a 1.5 hour flight. Say Wright is repealed and Southwest does start Memphis. Think it will change? Me thinks so. Even AirTran’s fare is a tolerable $219, albeit connecting in Atlanta.

Its pure speculation, I just wanted to get some dialogue started on the issue. Thank you to all who have contributed so far.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
sampa737
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 5:31 am

The survery was done sometime ago and I don't remember the station. I bet it was during sweeps weeks! Memphis is served by AirTran and AmericaWest, 2 discounters. Memphis has close to 20 flights a day to Atlanta and neither Delta nor Northwest has pushed out AirTran. Dunno. NW will fight WN. Interesting to note...Tunica, the 3rd largest gaming hub just an hour south of MEM, now has a runway capable of landing 737s. Hmmmm....
 
stlgph
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 5:43 am

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 14):
Tunica, the 3rd largest gaming hub just an hour south of MEM, now has a runway capable of landing 737s. Hmmmm....

plus, it's in Mississippi.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
sampa737
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 5:54 am

Double up on the "hmmmmmmmm...." I didn't think about that. There are many charters into Memphis on the weekends just to gamble in Tunica!
 
cloudy
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 6:03 am

The trouble is, most of Southwests new aircraft are spoken for in the next few years. They will expand in Philledelphia and out of Chicago Midway. These will be huge expansions, with many long-haul flights.


They do keep mentioning that there will be one new city this year. I'd be very surprised if that new city is Memphis. Memphis would be a good opportunity if Northwest was in the same financial state as Usair is now. Southwest does not usually look to fill holes in its network. It seeks the best opportunities wherever they are. More recently, they have been influenced by the need to preempt Jetblue and Airtran. Both their entrance into Philidelphia and their codeshare with ATA (which got them some all-important Midway gates) were done for this purpose.

IN SHORT.... If WN does indeed enter a new city this year it will be either CLT or someplace like Fresno or Colorado Springs. They won't go for Memphis unless Northwest gets so weak they can't fight back.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Sat May 14, 2005 6:57 am

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 17):
or someplace like Fresno

It would be nice but I think we'll be seeing WN focused on the CLT and some of the other major cities in the eastern half of the US for the next year or so.

Then again, a HP/US merger could also make WN think about going after cities in the West where HP is strong. Hhhhmmmmm, so maaayyyybeeee.  pray 
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Wed May 18, 2005 4:02 am

As I said in the other thread....

...the biggest thing MEM could ~EVER~ do to royally f^ck up its level of aerial services, would be to usher WN in at the expense of NW.




Yes they'd get cheaper fares, and yes Joe Family & Wife might save a hundred bucks of so on their annual trip to MCO...... but that city could then forever forget about ever having nonstop service to Mexico, the Carribean, Europe, and most significant USA business markets ever again.
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ejmmsu
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Wed May 18, 2005 5:12 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 19):
but that city could then forever forget about ever having nonstop service to Mexico, the Carribean, Europe, and most significant USA business markets ever again.

There is currently no non-stop service from MEM to the Carrribean or Mexico.

Also, the lone European flight is a single DC10 to AMS.

A single flight to AMS is not justification for the entire city of MEM to pay exhorborantly high fares and have to drive to LIT or BNA to avoid being price gouged.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Wed May 18, 2005 5:30 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 20):
There is currently no non-stop service from MEM to the Carrribean or Mexico.

When did they discontinue the CUN and MBJ flights?? Don't keep up with the MEM schedule much these days, used to fly thru there quite often..

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 20):
A single flight to AMS is not justification for the entire city of MEM to pay exhorborantly high fares and have to drive to LIT or BNA to avoid being price gouged.

Maybe not that single flight to AMS, but those N/S flights to the major business centers I would bet are, even if a lot of it is on smaller regional jets..
 
txagkuwait
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Wed May 18, 2005 5:51 am

You really want to know what Memphis would look like if Southwest were there?

Look at Nashville or Kansas City.

Neither of those cities have had to put up "going out of business" sale signs due to not being a hub/having a large WN presence.

International flights? That's already been covered. One per day to Amsterdam.

Major business centers? Southwest will gladly carry folks to Chicago, South Florida, Dallas (assuming WA goes away), Houston, KC, St Louis, Phoenix, they blanket the west coast, and the Washington DC area. You can get to the Boston area, you can get to Philadelphia, you can get to Pittsburgh.

The carriers flying from Memphis to NYC are not going to discontinue service because WN has a flight or connection to Long Island.

If you are addicted to O'Hare, DCA, BOS, or ATL.....there will still be carriers to fly you those places.

I doubt that NW would close up their hub due to the arrival of Southwest. By their own admission, the bulk of the traffic at their Memphis hub is all connecting stuff....not a whole lot of O&D.

Southwest never gets in to the connecting stuff anyway...all their business, for the most part, is O&D.

Folks have said there is insufficient O&D at Memphis to get anything better than the air service they currently have.

One reason the O&D is so woefully insufficient is that the prices are so high. Lower walk up fares stimulate additional traffic, lots of it.

BTW in addition to AWM (West Memphis) another really neat airfield on the outskirts is Olive Branch, Mississippi. It is right over by the suburbs of Memphis where people have quite a bit of money and spend a chunk of it flying around. The downside is the airport and the infrastructure (roads to airport, parking facilities, etc etc) would require quite a bit of work.

Wright needs to perish, and then WN can begin Memphis. I liked the idea of OLV for a long time (if you'd ever been to West Memphis, you would understand why that is a bad idea) but an even better idea is DAL-MEM-BWI and DAL-MEM-ORF and HOU-MEM-PIT and HOU-MEM-MDW etc etc
 
burnsie28
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Wed May 18, 2005 5:53 am

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 13):
no gouging change fees

Gouging change fees, wtf are you talking about a whopping $25?

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 13):
Say Wright is repealed and Southwest does start Memphis. Think it will change? Me thinks so

Just because Southwest comes to down doesnt mean fares will drop.
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Wed May 18, 2005 10:59 am

Quoting Txagkuwait (Reply 22):
Major business centers? Southwest will gladly carry folks to Chicago, South Florida, Dallas (assuming WA goes away), Houston, KC, St Louis, Phoenix, they blanket the west coast, and the Washington DC area. You can get to the Boston area, you can get to Philadelphia, you can get to Pittsburgh.

Yes, you will be able to get to these cities, but there will obviously be connections involved on WN. If NW carried thru with their threat to pull out of MEM, do you think WN will jump in with N/S service to all the cities you mentioned above?? I personally don't think so. At best you might see 12-15 flights a day to MDW, PHL, BWI, etc, no more than they set up at other locations to start with.

Quoting Txagkuwait (Reply 22):
I doubt that NW would close up their hub due to the arrival of Southwest. By their own admission, the bulk of the traffic at their Memphis hub is all connecting stuff....not a whole lot of O&D.

I believe I have read here that the MEM O&D numbers for NW are around 20%. I guess those outrageous fares they charge to locals in Memphis are enough to keep the whole operation afloat.

Quoting Txagkuwait (Reply 22):
One reason the O&D is so woefully insufficient is that the prices are so high. Lower walk up fares stimulate additional traffic, lots of it.

I agree, and would love to see the ugly birds at MEM and every other airport in the US, because I believe they do absolute wonders to stimulate air travel for all. I think that the threat by NW to pull out is an idle one, and at worst I could see them scaling down their operation to something along the lines of IND, with mainline to DTW and MSP and several daily CRJ's to LGA, DCA, etc catering to the business client. Although the O&D is small, I believe it is sufficient to warrant flights to these cities, and let NW gouge their customer for whatever they can get away with....

FWIW, I believe you will not see any WN metal in MEM for a long time, if ever. As a few have already stated, their focus seems to be elsewhere..
 
OPNLguy
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Wed May 18, 2005 11:28 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 23):

Just because Southwest comes to town doesnt mean fares will drop.

Ever hear of the "Southwest Effect"?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 1:37 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 7):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 1):
I believe there are bigger fish to fry then MEM right now.

I would have to agree. I was looking at metro areas for another topic and I still had the page open so I thought I would add a reason why WN wouldn't be in a big rush.

I third that! WN is not going through all this trouble to lift the Wright Ammendment just to fly to an airport just across the river. They'll probably do BNA, BWI, PHL, MDW, LAX, LAS, PHX, MCO, TPA, maybe FLL first and then after connecting the dots go back to opening new stations. I wondering what would happen to some other routes though, as I'm sure WN is a little low on aircraft after launching PIT.
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luv2fly
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 1:50 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 19):
There is currently no non-stop service from MEM to the Carrribean or Mexico.

WOW then why do the board the flights everyday to MBJ and CUN, where are those planes actually flying to?
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northwestair
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 5:30 am

Why would WN spend their Cash on opening up MEM when they can get the MEM Psgr to drive to LIT to catch a flight. If WN wanted to hurt NW then WN would increase their LIT service. I know there are a lot of psgrs that drive from MEM to LIT to catch a flight, cause it's cheaper. I think we board maybe 5 people a day that are just going to MEM From OKC. I do agree with the WN people that the Wright Agreement is stupid and should be lifted and when it is and no other Airlines move into DAL than so be it.
I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 5:44 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 19):
There is currently no non-stop service from MEM to the Carrribean or Mexico.

...do they know that??

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 19):
Also, the lone European flight is a single DC10 to AMS.

which is a hella lot more than they're going to have if they send NW packing.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
northwestair
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 5:55 am

Don't forget about the MEM-NAS
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ejmmsu
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 1:20 pm

My bad on claiming that there were no carribian flights....

But i mean really, is it worth not having to connect in IAH to get to the carribian in exchange for paying fares that are often twice as much as the same destinations from BNA?

I don't think so.

I'd much rather make a connection here and there and pay half as much.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
avek00
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 1:31 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 30):
I'd much rather make a connection here and there and pay half as much.

No, you will be making connections to go pretty much ANYWHERE except for flights to legacy hubs + whatever cities WN served ex-MEM on a nonstop basis. On account of its piss-poor O&D market, WN is unlikely to come there anytime soon to begin with - but if they did, NW would run away from MEM in a hurry, and the airport would become as insignificant a national/international pax gateway as say...Nashville.

[Edited 2005-05-30 06:34:26]
Live life to the fullest.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 1:47 pm

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 31):
and the airport would become as insignificant a national/international pax gateway as say...Nashville.

If MEM is a much better airport, amazing international gateway, etc. than BNA, why do so many more people fly from BNA over MEM, two cities of almost equal size in the same part of the country?

I would think that if the situation in MEM was so much more amazing and special than that of BNA, then more people would fly in MEM as opposed to BNA.

However this is not the case.

I guess i'm just too stupid to understand your logic.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
avek00
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 2:02 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 32):
I would think that if the situation in MEM was so much more amazing and special than that of BNA, then more people would fly in MEM as opposed to BNA.

They DO fly into MEM - MEM lives almost exclusively off of connecting traffic, while BNA relies much more heavily on O&D. Hence, MEM can support nonstop services to most major North American business markets plus some international flying while ex-BNA travelers are SOL if WN doesn't fly (or a legacy hub isn't located) where they're going.
Live life to the fullest.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 2:12 pm

I think the thinking here is that even though MEM is a connecting hub with lots of nonstops, its still much less O&D friendly airport than BNA. Its great for people connecting, but it sucks for MEM pax. Thats why they don't fly, its too expensive. Give me BNA any day, a place from which i can actually afford to fly.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
ejmmsu
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 2:39 pm

I think the thinking here is that even though MEM is a connecting hub with lots of nonstops, its still much less O&D friendly airport than BNA. Its great for people connecting, but it sucks for MEM pax. Thats why they don't fly, its too expensive. Give me BNA any day, a place from which i can actually afford to fly.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
N200WN
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RE: So When Does Southwest Start Memphis?

Mon May 30, 2005 3:00 pm

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 16):
If WN does indeed enter a new city this year it will be either CLT or someplace like Fresno or Colorado Springs

From the horses mouth..."there's a reason all of those gates at COS are empty." (HK) So no, COS is not coming anytime soon.

FAT is not ready yet...the population there is booming but I don't think it yet has the business climate to support the level of service that Southwest likes to start with. In spite of what a lot of A-Netters seem to think, WN is indeed an airline oriented towards the business traveler and looks for cities that can support high frequency service. Of course there is an anomaly there with JAN but that was clearly a political move (was it the "segment tax" that was the issue then?)

So CLT is a possibility but I still think everyone is forgetting Herb's statement to RIC shortly after the announcement of ORF in '01..."we are coming." I think that promise may be fulfilled shortly. Reason? Because Southwest wants to continue to build up MDW, PIT, and PHL, plus connecting some dots. That will take a lot of the new aircraft scheduled for delivery...but RIC can be opened up with 12 to 14 flights per day just to get established then let it sit for a couple of years. CLT would require a faster rate of growth to be competitive with US. I think it would be difficult to grow CLT while at the same time building up the other cities mentioned

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 18):
that city could then forever forget about ever having nonstop service to Mexico, the Carribean, Europe, and most significant USA business markets ever again

Regarding MEM...as several have already said, just look at BNA for an example of what may happen at MEM. BNA had a large AA hub with a N/S to London. The hub is now gone but there is still nonstop service to the "the most significant USA business markets" on not only WN but other airlines as well.

When will all of the pinko's on Anet ever learn the basic free market principles of supply and demand and competition?

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