Noise
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US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Sun May 15, 2005 10:26 am

With the possibility of making this Star Alliance member even bigger, how do you think the US/AW merger will affect United? Would a bigger US/AW compete against UAL? Or will it simple compliment their extensive Star Alliance route network?
 
levg79
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Sun May 15, 2005 11:48 am

I was actually wondering the same thing. However, I don't think the US/HP merger would make it automatic for HP to join Star. Would be interesting to see though. As far as competing with UA, HP doesn't have a route network which is even close to UA. It's an airline with two major hubs, LAS and PHX. UA, on the other hand, has its big hubs at DEN and ORD, as well as an extensive network of international routes, which HP doesn't have.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Sun May 15, 2005 12:32 pm

I highly doubt it...UA has no trouble competing with HP on the west coast, and the merged airline would have little presense in DEN or ORD area...UA will hardly be affected by this. If it works out however, DL might have some issues on the east coast.
 
Kahala777
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Sun May 15, 2005 1:07 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
UA has no trouble competing with HP on the west coast

That is funny. United Airlines, has had to do away with the Shuttle by United program, and in its place we are seeing more and more jungle jets!

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
the merged airline would have little presense in DEN or ORD area

United is getting it from all angles. America West combined with US Airways would be serving Denver to Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh. Combined from Chicago/ORD would be offering Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh. That is five cities that United Airlines, will take a hit on. Less you not forget that United Airlines has had to pull the 757, 744, and 763 out of Las Vegas in favor of TED!

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
DL might have some issues on the east coast

Actually, United Airlines, again would be the loser in this. Less you seem to have forgotten that US Airways has made a very nice fortress out of Washington/DCA, and has a very nice fleet of services from Washington/IAD was well. America West serves Washington D.C. from Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Los Angeles?

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 1):
As far as competing with UA, HP doesn't have a route network which is even close to UA

Considering that more United Airlines West Coast mainline has been converted to TED and Express flying, that statement no longer holds true. America West, Southwest, and Alaska are the key players on the West Coast!

Quoting Noise (Thread starter):
Would a bigger US/AW compete against UAL?

Yes, in both domestic and international!

US Airways serves FCO, MAN, DUB, SNN, VCE, and BCN. All of which would be sorely missed from the United Airlines code share agreement with US Airways!
US Airways would overnight compete against United Airlines in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, Charlotte, Boston, Ft.Lauderdale, and New York.


Regards - Kahala777
 
dagell
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Sun May 15, 2005 1:32 pm

Here's a recent discussion on the same topic
US/HP Merger Hurting United? (by Gkpetery Apr 20 2005 in Civil Aviation)
 
Planesmart
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Sun May 15, 2005 9:14 pm

The industry re-structure has hardly got started. Perhaps America West will add United (or selected assets) later this year, or they may be shared across a couple of airlines.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
United Airlines, has had to do away with the Shuttle by United program, and in its place we are seeing more and more jungle jets!

The shuttle died with the dot com boom, it had nothing to do with HP. If anything, WN may have played a roll.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
Actually, United Airlines, again would be the loser in this. Less you seem to have forgotten that US Airways has made a very nice fortress out of Washington/DCA, and has a very nice fleet of services from Washington/IAD was well. America West serves Washington D.C. from Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Los Angeles?

IAD is one of UA's weakest hubs. Delta is very strong on the east and would be hit a lot harder, while UA has ORD, DEN to fall back on.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
United is getting it from all angles. America West combined with US Airways would be serving Denver to Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh. Combined from Chicago/ORD would be offering Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh. That is five cities that United Airlines, will take a hit on. Less you not forget that United Airlines has had to pull the 757, 744, and 763 out of Las Vegas in favor of TED!

Five cities. Oh boy, UA is sure to die now...like I said, LITTLE PRESENSE. I didn't say no presense.
 
wingnutmn
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 6:42 am

I would have to say that ANY airline that is still operating in the US is affecting the outcome of United. NW in the pacific, AA/DL/CO/US/NW in Europe, All LCC in the US, plus all the majors.....EVERYONE is affecting UA! I still believe in the idea of get fixed, or get gone! IF this proposed merger saves US than congradulations and you fixed it so keep operating....praying that a bancruptcy judge lets you stay in court protection so you don't have to compete equally with other airlines....you deserve to go under....and sooner more than later.

THIS ISN'T UA BASHING......THIS IS REALITY!

WingnutMN
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
 
Kahala777
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 7:32 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
The shuttle died with the dot com boom

Nice Try... United Airlines dropped Shuttle by United post 9-11!

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
nothing to do with HP

Yes, that is why HP and WN offer mainline LAX-PHX and UA is offering Express service!

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
WN may have played a roll

Yes, along with partner in crime HP!

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
IAD is one of UA's weakest hubs

Yes, that makes sense. United Airlines main European gateway is its weakest hub! And some people say that United Airlines management are effective  no 

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
UA has ORD, DEN to fall back on.

Correction.. F9 also has Denver. AA also has Chicago, as does WN/TZ at Midway.. United Airlines is not the sole hub airline in either city. You seem to have forgotten that American Airlines is building Chicago more and more, poising it for a very nice Asian expansion over the next 5-10 years.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
Delta is very strong on the east

Delta Airlines has hubs at CVG/ATL/JFK, Focus Cities at BOS/FLL/MCO. US Airways, has Hubs at PIT/CLT/PHL, Focus Cities at FLL/DCA/BOS/LGA. American, has hubs at JFK/MIA, Focus Cities at BOS/RDU/LGA. Continental, has hubs at CLE/EWR. Southwest Airlines has a Hub at BWI. Focus Cities at MCO/FLL/PHL. Air Tran, has a Hub at ATL, Focus Cities at FLL/MCO/BWI. Jet Blue has a Hub at JFK, Focus Cities at IAD/BOS/FLL. All have a very commanding presence in the region. United Airlines has one of the weakest presences on the East Coast of any major U.S. airline!



Regards - Kahala777
 
COTXDFW777AA
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 7:53 am

So what will this proposed airline be classified as LCC or legacy?
Texas- it's like a whole different country!
 
Kahala777
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 7:56 am

Quoting CoTXDFW777AA (Reply 9):
LCC or legacy

LCC/Legacy - Domestic
Full Service/Legacy - International

The word Leagcy, by the way has a very broad use in the United States. Some refer to WN as a legacy, some refer to AS as a legacy. It seems to be more of an opinion than something set in stone!

Regards - Kahala777
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:08 am

Kahala777,
who is going to be your whipping boy when ual folds up??????my god you spend alot of energy on one airline....
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting CoTXDFW777AA (Reply 9):
So what will this proposed airline be classified as LCC or legacy?

Good question. Basically, I think the term "Legacy" refers to a major airline with a long history and relatively high costs with the emphasis on costs. So, I guess I would consider the new airline an LCC.
 
Kahala777
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:16 am

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 11):
you spend alot of energy on one airline

We all have our likes and dislikes!


Regards - Kahala777
 
TWA902fly
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:19 am

What i take to mean legacy is the same carriers that used to be referred to as the cartel carriers, being

United
USAirways
Delta
American
Continental
Alaska
America West
Northwest

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
Kahala777
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:24 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 14):
cartel carriers

Again, another term that has little or no solid standing!

Alaska Airlines a Cartel/Legacy?
America West Airlines a Cartel/Legacy?

If these two airlines are on the list, why would you not include Southwest Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines, or Aloha Airlines?

Regards - Kahala777
 
levg79
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
Considering that more United Airlines West Coast mainline has been converted to TED and Express flying, that statement no longer holds true. America West, Southwest, and Alaska are the key players on the West Coast!

Well, the last time I check TED was United. Anyone care to correct me?


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Kahala777
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 12:40 pm

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 16):
Anyone care to correct me

TED only offers certain markets on the West Coast.

DEN-LAS: Former Mainline - Faced competition from F9/HP
DEN-ONT: Former Mainline - Faces competition from F9
DEN-PHX: Former Mainline - Faces competition from F9/HP
DEN-RNO: Former Mainline - Faces competition from F9/HP

LAX-LAS: Former Mainline - Faces competition from AA/NW/HP/WN

SFO-PHX: Former Mainline - Faces competition from HP
SFO-LAS: Former Mainline - Faces competition from HP

United Airlines has surrendered Mainline service to Express in the following markets on the West Coast.

SFO-RNO
SFO-ONT
SFO-PSP
SFO-MFR
SFO-EUG
SFO-GEG
SFO-BOI
SFO-PDX

LAX-OAK
LAX-PHX
LAX-SJC
LAX-SBA
LAX-SMF (Only 1 Mainline per day, 5 Express)

That is a lot of blows on the West Coast!  Wink


Regards - Kahala777
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 3:17 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
Considering that more United Airlines West Coast mainline has been converted to TED and Express flying, that statement no longer holds true. America West, Southwest, and Alaska are the key players on the West Coast!

Well, i've flown Alaska, United, and Southwest many times up and down the west coast. I can't remember the last time I flew America West. Afterall, Pheonix isn't exactly in between the Pacific Northwest and California. Can it be done? Of course, but I'd only do it if the fair was way lower than AS or WN.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
Yes, that is why HP and WN offer mainline LAX-PHX and UA is offering Express service!

Well, I'd hope that HP and WN offered mainline LAX-PHX. WN only has mainline and PHX is the center of the universe to HP. For UA, PHX is a feeder to the Pacific, and the UAX ops can handle that, though obviously not as comfortably.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
WN may have played a roll



Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
Yes, along with partner in crime HP!

You make it sound like Batman and Robin. More like Shrek and Donkey. I remember when HP had services on the west coast separate from PHX and LAS. Where are they? Could UA and WN have had something to do with it?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 17):

SFO-RNO
SFO-ONT
SFO-PSP
SFO-MFR
SFO-EUG
SFO-GEG
SFO-BOI
SFO-PDX

LAX-OAK
LAX-PHX
LAX-SJC
LAX-SBA
LAX-SMF

And, I'm sorry, how many of those did HP compete in and drive UA under with?

With all due respect,

-Dave
-Dave
 
wgw2707
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 3:22 pm

Considering the massive systemwide codeshare between US Airways and United, I would say this merger is far more likely to hurt American Airlines, which doesn't have nearly as strong a domestic partner network. AA seems to be the odd man out with the DL+NW+CO and HP/US+UA alliances forming. I think they'll be stuck in that position as well, since this really leaves no other network carrier to merge or partner with.

-WGW2707
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 3:26 pm

Quoting WGW2707 (Reply 19):
AA seems to be the odd man out with the DL+NW+CO and HP/US+UA alliances forming.

I haven't read everything, but I hadn't seen it said that the codeshare between UA and US would continue post-merger. I'm not sure if it would even be allowed, though NW+CO+DL was approved. If so, then I definately think the Caribbean/Central/South American market will be a great growth vehicle for US+HP. UA could continue to focus on the Pacific and Atlantic and possibly downsize their domestic ops a little. And Chicago/Denver would provide the necessary midwestern feed for them as well.

-Dave
-Dave
 
wgw2707
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Mon May 16, 2005 5:17 pm

Given the current attitudes of the US government when it comes to antitrust regulation, especially in the airline industry, I would be very suprised if the US+UA codeshare partnership was terminated, forcibly or otherwise.

-WGW2707
 
Trvlr
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 7:48 am

Okay, so it looks like Air Canada is providing financing for the merged airline. Moreover, US will stay in Star Alliance. Therefore, it is likely that United will actually benefit from the merger, because they will gain access to America West's network through codeshare and alliance agreements that will most likely stay in place.

Aaron G.
 
ouboy79
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 7:53 am

The UA/US alliance, I assume, will be one of the main issues brought up for DOJ approval. I would expect it to be greatly scaled back to just ORD and DEN hubs and international routes for the other hubs.
 
avek00
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 7:54 am

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 22):
they will gain access to America West's network through codeshare and alliance agreements that will most likely stay in place.

In other words, UA would be gaining access to nothing that it does not already possess, and would stand to LOSE customers to US/HP.
Live life to the fullest.
 
Kahala777
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 7:59 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 18):
Pheonix isn't exactly in between the Pacific Northwest and California

Ever heard of a place called Las Vegas, due East of Los Angeles!

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 18):
how many of those did HP compete in and drive UA under with?

United Airlines, has not gone under yet... Unfortunately.

America West has been whipping United Airlines rear in Las Vegas, and Phoenix networks. In addition Southwest Airlines, damn near knocked United Airlines clear out of the Intra-California, and California to Northwest markets. Remember the days of United Airline mainline SMF-PDX, SMF-SEA??? United, is reduced to flying jungle jets where WN and HP are loading 130 pax, 5 to 8 times a day!

Buh Bye....

 yes 


Regards - Kahala777
 
UA744Flagship
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 8:16 am

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 23):
The UA/US alliance, I assume, will be one of the main issues brought up for DOJ approval. I would expect it to be greatly scaled back to just ORD and DEN hubs and international routes for the other hubs.

Why? The government hasn't disallowed SkyTeam NW/CO/DL from intra-US codeshares.
no wire hangers!
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 8:22 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 1):
However, I don't think the US/HP merger would make it automatic for HP to join Star. Would

The merger press release indicated they'd be expanding their participation in Star Alliance.

N
 
planecrazy2
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 8:27 am

Going back to the list you say UA has surrendered SFO-RNO to all express. I thought they still had one A319 arrive late at night and depart the next morning. Am I correct or is it all express?
United Airlines - Worldwide Service
 
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 8:47 am

America West serves Washington D.C. from Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Los Angeles?

HP flies to DCA from LAX? I don't think so...

AS does, though. They're the only carrier that has the authority.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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travelin man
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 9:16 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 18):
Well, i've flown Alaska, United, and Southwest many times up and down the west coast. I can't remember the last time I flew America West. Afterall, Pheonix isn't exactly in between the Pacific Northwest and California. Can it be done? Of course, but I'd only do it if the fair was way lower than AS or WN.

Totally agree with PlanesNTrains. HP is a non-entity out West (specifically from Los Angeles), unless you want to go to PHX. I'll fly WN, AS, AA, or UA before flying HP. WN is the behemoth in California, and United has reacted to them, not HP.

United doesn't gain anything from the HP network that it doesn't already do itself. I don't see how this is good for United, unless more current HP customers start flying United as a result of the codeshare/frequent flyer agreements.
 
9844
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 9:19 am

Listen when these two pigs finish slapping lip stick.They will both go under.

AWA bad move...Like TECH, airline mergers NEVER work!
 
potomac
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 9:20 am

i was looking for the data but couldn't track it down, but i recall information from MWAA about how IAD was actually one of UAs more profitable hubs. the steady if not increasing service across mainline, express, and international routes isn't for the heck of it. either way, i cant see the existing US focus city out of DCA and the new US focus city out of DCA taking away the demand that sustains UA at IAD.
 
kdeg00
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 9:26 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 17):
SFO-RNO
SFO-ONT
SFO-PSP
SFO-MFR
SFO-EUG
SFO-GEG
SFO-BOI
SFO-PDX

Strange, but I don't remember flying express for any of my last 6 PDX-SFO flights.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 25):
Ever heard of a place called Las Vegas, due East of Los Angeles!

Not to burst your bubble, but LAS isn't exactly between Cali and the Pacific Northwest either.  Wink

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 25):
United, is reduced to flying jungle jets where WN and HP are loading 130 pax, 5 to 8 times a day!

Tell me why the HELL UA should be flying anything else if they can't turn a profit on it? And show me the expansive FFP and international connections (WORLDWIDE connections mind you) that HP and WN have. Well, WN doesn't codeshare with anyone but their slave TZ...HP has a few Mexican routes...

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 25):
United Airlines, has not gone under yet... Unfortunately.

Do you have a reason to hate UA? Is it overcapacity? Well, here's a little lesson. You can kill off all the airlines you want, but if the other remaining carriers aren't willing to make drastic changes in the way they do business (and despite recent efforts, none of the legacies have succeeded thus far in doing this), the problem will just come back. UA's death would be a patch to the industry, not a solution. There will be no long-term effect other than one less livery flying around. And the short-term effects to Chicago, San Fran, Denver, and Washington, not to mention the 62,000 employees that aren't just going to be picked up by other carriers (hello, if they can't make money now, how is UA's death going to change that?) will be devastating.

So tell me, why should UA really die? I have nothing wrong with an honest dislike of the airline, but I'm just looking for reasoning. I will not buy the overcapacity issue, because it isn't an issue. Airline L/F are at record levels. That doesn't sound like too many seats to me.
 
flashmeister
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 10:08 am

Corrections to the mainline-to-express "surrender" post:

SFO-PDX is very much mainline. In fact, no express at all.

DEN-EUG was also converted to express, as I'm sure DEN to a number of the now-express Western cities was.
 
PPVRA
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting Noise (Thread starter):
how do you think the US/AW merger will affect United?

Maybe they'll merge with UA next year  Wink

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Bridogger6
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 34):
show me the expansive FFP and international connections (WORLDWIDE connections mind you) that HP and WN have. Well, WN doesn't codeshare with anyone but their slave TZ...HP has a few Mexican routes...



Oh I am sorry, last time I checked, HP has codeshares with NW, HA, QF, and BA to name a few.  Wink
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 10:30 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 34):
Do you have a reason to hate UA?

My friends who work for UA hate working there and told me that UA sucks. So, I hate them now, too. Besides that, I don't have any good reason.

Signed,
Kahala777
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Trvlr
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 11:08 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 24):

United doesn't have any agreements with America West.

If USAirways stays in Star (which it claims it will), then I don't see the merged airline being any more of a "threat" to United than a USAirways that enlarged itself through natural growth.

Aaron G.
 
ScottB
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RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 2:19 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
That is funny. United Airlines, has had to do away with the Shuttle by United program

Which was almost entirely due to Shuttle's inability to effectively compete with Southwest; it had almost nothing at all to do with Southwest. United had discontinued Shuttle well before AWA claimed it was restructuring its fares in 2002. Shuttle was initially designed to compete with Southwest out West; it was also used on selected routes from DEN to compete with Frontier.

So bzzzzzzzt, you're wrong.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
United is getting it from all angles. America West combined with US Airways would be serving Denver to Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh. Combined from Chicago/ORD would be offering Phoenix, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh. That is five cities that United Airlines, will take a hit on.

And United is serving LAS, PHX, PIT, PHL, LGA, BOS, and IAD from DEN. They're serving LAS, PHX, CLT, PIT, PHL, DCA, LGA, and BOS from ORD. They're serving PIT, PHL, LGA, BOS, FLL, PHX, and LAS from IAD. Looks like the combined US/HP is going to be "getting it from all angles" from United in most of their hubs.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
Less you seem to have forgotten that US Airways has made a very nice fortress out of Washington/DCA, and has a very nice fleet of services from Washington/IAD was well. America West serves Washington D.C. from Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Los Angeles

Actually, US Airways' presence at IAD is virtually non-existent. America West does not serve LAX non-stop from any of DCA, IAD, or BWI.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
Considering that more United Airlines West Coast mainline has been converted to TED and Express flying, that statement no longer holds true. America West, Southwest, and Alaska are the key players on the West Coast!

America West is a minor player on the West Coast. HP was ninth in market share at LAX (behind UA, AA, WN, DL, AS, OO, NW, and CO) in 2002. Yep, regional carrier SkyWest had a bigger market presence. In 2002, they were sixth in market share at SFO, fifth at SJC, ninth at SEA, seventh at PDX, sixth at SAN, fourth at SNA, sixth at OAK, fourth at ONT, fourth at RNO, fourth at BUR, and their best was third at SMF (behind WN and UA). America West is second in O&D market share at both of its hubs. Even CO and US have larger market share in some West Coast airports than HP.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 3):
US Airways serves FCO, MAN, DUB, SNN, VCE, and BCN. All of which would be sorely missed from the United Airlines code share agreement with US Airways!

Oh, and of course there's no way that United could put those passengers on its own flights to FRA or LHR and then have them on Lufthansa or bmi codeshare flights, right? D U H. Not that bmi isn't flying from MAN to UA's hubs of ORD and IAD. US would lose access to Star Alliance if UA didn't approve of the merger.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 10):
The word Leagcy, by the way has a very broad use in the United States. Some refer to WN as a legacy, some refer to AS as a legacy

Virtually no one with half a clue refers to Southwest as a "legacy" -- they are more-or-less the anti-legacy. The "legacies" are the carriers with most of the following attributes: network (often banked) hubs, full service, extensive interline agreements, first/business-class seating, airline clubs, international flying, high fares on monopoly routes, etc. Most, if not all, of these attributes can be found at AS and HP.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 25):
America West has been whipping United Airlines rear in Las Vegas, and Phoenix networks.

Nope. UA has greater market share on SFO-LAS than HP with a higher yield. UA beats HP on DEN-LAS with greater market share and higher yields. UA dominates PHX-SFO with over 50% of the market. Southwest kicks America West's tail in virtually all competitive short-haul markets from both PHX and LAS.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 25):
Remember the days of United Airline mainline SMF-PDX, SMF-SEA

America West has how much presence in thse markets? Z E R O

Too bad airliners.net doesn't have a FACT CHECK feature.
 
WeAreUnited
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:02 pm

RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 2:50 pm

Love the facts ScottB. Glad someone knows what they're talking about.
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 3:03 pm

...And Kahala777 goes down in flames again... Wink

Better luck next time! :I

ScottB: Welcome to my RU list... Wink
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
ScottB
Posts: 5414
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: US Airways-America West Merger To Hurt United?

Fri May 20, 2005 4:57 pm

Correcting a blond moment I had while typing; correction is in bold:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 40):
Which was almost entirely due to Shuttle's inability to effectively compete with Southwest; it had almost nothing at all to do with America West.

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