wingedarrow
Posts: 157
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Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

Mon May 16, 2005 3:31 am

A couple of months ago, I've been told by an airline representative that China Airlines is the next suitable candidate to join the Skyteam Alliance. In the recent past there were rumors about Aeroflot joining the group thanks to their agreements with Air France. Does anybody know something more about what airline could probably be added to Skyteam?
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slider
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RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

Mon May 16, 2005 3:38 am

It is indeed China Southern, with Aeroflot following.

There are a few others that are being massaged right now, but nothing coming to fruition as far as I've heard outside those 2.
 
DeltaA380
Posts: 84
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RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

Mon May 16, 2005 3:40 am

I have heard China Southern and Aeroflot as well; the other one I wouldn't be suprised to see is Emirates.
Vote Democratic in '06 and '08
 
slider
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RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

Mon May 16, 2005 3:42 am

Good point about EK; there is a considerable amount of x-traffic CO gets, and I believe DL as well.
 
B742
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RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

Mon May 16, 2005 3:43 am

I think Emirates might join Skyteam in the near future!

Aeroflot and China Southern are to join Skyteam, or so i've heard!

Rob!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

Mon May 16, 2005 3:46 am

Aeroflot will be the next one to join. They have already signed a MOU, and will officially join later this year. Following them is likely China Southern. They (along with Air China and China Eastern) have long wanted to join an alliance, but "higher powers" blocked such moves. China Airlines is another candidate, however I think it could be a problem to have a Chinese and a Taiwanese airline in the same alliance. About EK, I doubt that. While they do have some codeshares and agreements, they prefer to do their flying on their own, as is obvious with their continuesly huge expansion.
 
sllevin
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RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

Mon May 16, 2005 3:50 am

MH has expressed interest as well. I'd much rather see MH than CI, myself.

Steve
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6175
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RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

Mon May 16, 2005 10:01 am

I really hope MH will join the alliance soon. It will help SkyTeam improve its coverage of Southeast Asia and Oceania. I don't know if Aeroflot will join soon, but China Southern has been repeatedly mentioned. Other airlines that have been mentioned are CM (but now it's uncertain whether it will join since CO might sell its stake in CM), UX (probably unfounded rumors) and AV. Maybe an airline from Africa would be a nice addition as well. The latest rumor is that Brazilian LCC Gol will join but I find that hard to believe.

Wingedarrow, I see you are new to a.net so I want to welcome you to the forums. I hope that you will enjoy beginning threads, posting replies and watching the pictures as much as I have since I joined. Look forward to reading your opinions.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

Mon May 16, 2005 10:47 am

Probably will in the relatively near future:
  • China Southern
  • Aeroflot

    High potential to join:
  • TAM
  • Malaysia
  • Avianca
  • MEA

    Longshots, but with potential:
  • China Airlines [ Yeah sure]
  • Air India
  • Emirates
  • Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    TrappedinMKG
    Posts: 232
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 10:49 am

    Quoting B742 (Reply 4):
    I think Emirates might join Skyteam in the near future!

    Aeroflot and China Southern are to join Skyteam, or so i've heard!

    Rob!

    Is the period (full stop to you, I suppose) key broken on your keyboard? LOL (kidding...)
     
    Guest

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 10:55 am

    To use Conc's list...

    Probably will in the relatively near future:

    China Southern - yes
    Aeroflot - yes

    High potential to join:

    TAM - no
    Malaysia - 50/50
    Avianca - no
    MEA - no

    Longshots, but with potential:

    China Airlines - no
    Air India - no
    Emirates - no, but man that would be awesome.

    You'd see Kenya in before any of those...

    B
     
    EddieDude
    Posts: 6175
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 10:58 am

    Freddie, I dunno about TAM. As much as I'd love to see them in SkyTeam, it seems they could go with oneworld instead.
    Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
     
    aseem
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 11:03 am

    Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 10):
    You'd see Kenya in before any of those...

    a very good proposition. The best airlines in Africa after SA. Skyteam should start making inroad in Africa, unless they want to realize its potential at the very last moment.
    rgds
    VT-ASJ
    ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
     
    Guest

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 11:12 am

    Quoting Aseem (Reply 12):
    a very good proposition. The best airlines in Africa after SA. Skyteam should start making inroad in Africa, unless they want to realize its potential at the very last moment.

    Agreed, tho what I think is holding them back is Africa is already covered well enuff with AF and KLM, plus they don't serve the US yet. If I had to rank potential members tho, they'd be at the top of my list.

    Malev may have some type of association too, we'll see.

    Malaysia would bring in the Australasian continent, which is not covered yet

    Avianca maaaaaaay have a slim clance along with Copa, other than that, anything else named here is a pipe dream.

    [Edited 2005-05-16 04:17:01]
     
    MD11junkie
    Posts: 2499
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 11:22 am

    Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 13):
    MH would bring in Australasia, which is not covered yet

    Isn't this covered by KE?

    Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 13):
    Avianca maaaaaaay have a slim clance along with Copa

    Agreed, I think CM has a bigger chance than AV because of her big sister, CO Big grin

    Wouldn't AT be suitable enough to cover up Northern Africa? Or Africa as well?
    Otherwise I think SkyTeam should focus on the Asian network which needs a tiny bit more attention Big grin

    Cheers! wave 
    Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie
    There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
     
    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 11:33 am

    Quoting EddieDude (Reply 11):
    Freddie, I dunno about TAM. As much as I'd love to see them in SkyTeam, it seems they could go with oneworld instead.

    ...why?

    Their relationship with AA has been stand-offish at best, and they'd have the advantage of being the only SkyTeam member in S.America (barring Avianca) should they strengthen their ties with AF and then join.
    Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    EddieDude
    Posts: 6175
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 11:43 am

    But I believe that their relationship with AF is not that good either. I am not sure about it but it seems that AF is angered by the fact that JJ is adding more CDG-GRU frequencies. Hopefully someone from Brazil can give more details (despite my flag, I am not Brazilian, nor do I live there).
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    Guest

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 12:30 pm

    Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 14):
    Isn't this covered by KE?

    Just Auckland, and you have to conx via Seoul.

    Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 14):
    Wouldn't AT be suitable enough to cover up Northern Africa? Or Africa as well?

    Africa is covered well with AF and KLM.

    Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 14):
    Otherwise I think SkyTeam should focus on the Asian network which needs a tiny bit more attention

    With Korean, China Southern, and possibly Malaysian, I think it's covered. Australia and South America are the only holes in the network.

    Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 15):
    Their relationship with AA has been stand-offish at best, and they'd have the advantage of being the only SkyTeam member in S.America (barring Avianca) should they strengthen their ties with AF and then join.

    If an airline is gonna represent South America in SkyTeam, it'll be Avianca, that that's still a long shot. TAM isn't on the radar.

    B
     
    mauriceb
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 4:23 pm

    Kenya airlines will join for sure... i think even before China Southern and Aeroflot, because KL has a stake in them....

    i see these airlines , in order of most probably, joining SkyTeam:


    Kenya airlines
    China southern
    Aeroflot
    Malaysian airlines
    Royal Air maroc/Ethidad/ and maybe EK to strenghten the african continent, were Kenya is a bit to small to cover the whole continent.


    i actually think that AZ will pull out soon, since after numerous requests they still can't join the AFKL alliance and the strong rumour about EK taking over AZ.......
     
    DeltaA380
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    Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:18 am

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 5:19 pm

    EK taking over AZ? That sounds like a thread in and of itself. On another forum someone mentioned UA taking over Atlas. Well, if all that can happen maybe Delta really will get A380's!

    In any case, with CZ in SkyTeam and SU seeming very likely, Malev would seem redundant to me.

    Even if CO sells Copa and Air Mike no reason they couldn't still join Skyteam.

    I agree with those that call for more Asian presence; that needs to improve. At least we have NW now to help with that (along with KE.)
    Vote Democratic in '06 and '08
     
    JGPH1A
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 5:56 pm

    Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 10):
    High potential to join:

    TAM - no
    Malaysia - 50/50
    Avianca - no
    MEA - no

    Re ME, I would beg to differ. Info we've had from ME indicates a strong wish and a reasonable likelihood of joining Skyteam. Maybe only as a regional partner, but still. We shall see.
    Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
     
    hardiwv
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 6:06 pm

    Quoting EddieDude (Reply 16):
    am not sure about it but it seems that AF is angered by the fact that AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ is adding more CDG-GRU frequencies. Hopefully someone from Brazil can give more details

    I would love to see TAM part of Syteam.

    TAM would be a major addition to SkyTeam, and AF has tried very hard to attract TAM to Sky. TAM now is the biggest domestic airline in Brazil, with 40% market share. TAM as a member of Sky would boost Sky operations in Brazil, which currently have the folllowing flights: AF - 2 daily; KL - 1 daily; CO - 2 daily; DL - 3 daily; AZ - 1 daily; AM - 1 daily Total: 10 daily flights to Brazil. [CZ - operates 2 x week charters to Northeast Brazil].

    However, TAM is much closer to OW because of its important association with AA, and AA's MIA hub is vital for TAM. That's why at the end there are strong indications that TAM will decide to join OW instead...sad news...

    Rgs,
     
    OO-VEG
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 6:07 pm

    Kenya Airlines is just as likely to join as Northwest would after the merger between KL/AF.

    Malaysia, China Southern are co-operating with KL, so I wouldn't be surprised seeing them join.
     
    AlitaliaMD11
    Posts: 3704
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 6:22 pm

    Does anyone know if Air Europa has any plans to join Sky Team? They have pretty good connections with Continental, Air France, KLM, and Alitalia.
    No Vueling No Party
     
    wingedarrow
    Posts: 157
    Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 9:11 pm

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 8:21 pm

    Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):
    Wingedarrow, I see you are new to a.net so I want to welcome you to the forums. I hope that you will enjoy beginning threads, posting replies and watching the pictures as much as I have since I joined. Look forward to reading your opinions.

    Thanks a lot, EddieDude, that's very kind of you. I've surfed on a.net for a long time before deciding to register and I'm glad I'll have forum mates like you!

    [Edited 2005-05-16 13:43:10]
    אליטליה
     
    wingedarrow
    Posts: 157
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 8:39 pm

    Quoting MauriceB (Reply 18):
    i actually think that AZ will pull out soon, since after numerous requests they still can't join the AFKL alliance and the strong rumour about EK taking over AZ.......

    I don't want to appear parochial, MauriceB, but I think Alitalia seems to be doing fine in the Skyteam Alliance. We've just started a new codeshare activity with KLM besides the already existing and effective one with Air France.

    You have to consider also that Alitalia is still fighting for its existence and has got top priority problems to solve in Italy first before thinking to expansion projects, even through an alliance, so everything about it forcedly slows down.

    As far as an Emirates interest in the Italian air market is concerned, though, I wouldn't be so worried. There have been several attempts from many in the past decades to put their hands on Alitalia, but no one brought to positive results...
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    keno
    Posts: 1809
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 11:15 pm

    Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 14):
    Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 13):
    MH would bring in Australasia, which is not covered yet

    Isn't this covered by KE?

    MH has a total of 54 flights a week to Australasia, serving SYD, MEL, BNE, PER, ADL & AKL. The first two on the list are served twice daily. KE on the other hand, only has 15 flights a week in total to SYD, BNE & AKL. If Skyteam needs Australasian coverage, MH is their only answer.

    MH will join Skyteam for sure from what I've heard, but we just have to be patient...
     
    Zone1
    Posts: 894
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 11:39 pm

    MH already has codeshare agreements with DL and KE. They are probably going to be number three in joining SkyTeam, behind China Southern and Aeroflot. They will be a great addition, I think. Someone posted a trip report about MH a couple of weeks ago, and the service looked great!
    /// U N I T E D
     
    worldxplorer
    Posts: 360
    Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:12 am

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Mon May 16, 2005 11:50 pm

    What about Qatar Airways? Their network is impressive, their fleet is new, the service is excellent (from what I here, I have not flown them), and several of the routes they serve are holes in the current SkyTeam network.

    WorldXplorer
     
    keno
    Posts: 1809
    Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Tue May 17, 2005 12:10 am

    Quoting Zone1 (Reply 27):
    MH already has codeshare agreements with DL

    MH only codeshares with KL & KE. There are no DL nor NW flights that carry MH codes, or vice versa.

    DL's Skymiles members however, can accrue mileage on MH flights (F or C only). MH's Enrich FFP on the other hand are not linked to DL, only to KL & NW.
     
    Guest

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Tue May 17, 2005 1:30 am

    Quoting MauriceB (Reply 18):
    Kenya airlines will join for sure... i think even before China Southern and Aeroflot, because KL has a stake in them....

    CZ and SU are for sure going to join. They've already been invited, so they are the only sure things. Let that be clear. Kenya has a lot of potential, but that's a ways off. As I said, Africa is covered with KLM and AF. The more I think about it the more I think MH would come in before Kenya.

    Quoting MauriceB (Reply 18):

    Royal Air maroc/Ethidad/ and maybe EK to strenghten the african continent, were Kenya is a bit to small to cover the whole continent.

    None of the above. Africa is fine.

    Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 20):
    Re ME, I would beg to differ. Info we've had from ME indicates a strong wish and a reasonable likelihood of joining Skyteam. Maybe only as a regional partner, but still. We shall see.

    Some of you have been saying that for a year now. It's not happening.

    Quoting DeltaA380 (Reply 19):
    I agree with those that call for more Asian presence; that needs to improve. At least we have NW now to help with that (along with KE.)

    Asian presence is fine. Korean, Northwest, and China Southern.

    Quoting DeltaA380 (Reply 19):
    Even if CO sells Copa and Air Mike no reason they couldn't still join Skyteam.

    I don't give Copa a lot of hope of joining, none at all if CO sells off their portion. They don't really provide anything ST needs.

    Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 23):
    Does anyone know if Air Europa has any plans to join Sky Team? They have pretty good connections with Continental, Air France, KLM, and Alitalia.

    Not happening.

    Quoting KEno (Reply 26):
    MH will join Skyteam for sure from what I've heard, but we just have to be patient...

    Nothing is for sure until an invitation has been issued. MH is very attractive tho.

    Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 28):
    What about Qatar Airways?

    No.

    B
     
    afay1
    Posts: 1206
    Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 2:37 pm

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Tue May 17, 2005 4:07 am

    Aeroflot has a press release from May 12, 2005 on its website annoucing codesharing on the SVO-MXP route and describes it as another step towards Skyteam membership. See http://www.aeroflot.ru/eng/news.asp?ob_no=712&d_no=3868 for more info...
     
    MEA330
    Posts: 179
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Tue May 17, 2005 6:57 am

    NonRevKing

    Working for Delta is not enough to negate everybody else's analysis on future SkyTeam partners.This is an internet forum and everybody has his own opinion.
    Kenya is already a partner in AF/KLM FFP Flying Blue with their logo on the back of the card, so they have the best chance of getting in.
    As for MEA's application to SkyTeam, the situation in Lebanon since Feb2005 does not help but things are looking bright in the Future. MEA's IST flight feeds half of DL's flight IST-JFK and more pax will feed into the DL flights at ATH also. AF wants MEA in SkyTeam and eventually it will happen.
     
    RCS763AV
    Posts: 3645
    Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Tue May 17, 2005 11:26 am

    About TAM. Very unlikely. Pathetic international network and more ties with AA than AF.

    About UX its been rumoured.

    MH has a tough relationship with AF as KQ do. It will be a tough work to be done.

    AV has strong ties with DL and agreements with both CO and AF. But they also codeshare with IB and its possible Efromovich will buy Varig, wich would turn the radar over to star.

    CZ and SU already signed MOUs and if you look in the skyteam website youll find the press releases.

    This discussion has come up so many times that all this im saying is just info taken from other threads.
     
    Guest

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Tue May 17, 2005 12:14 pm

    Quoting MEA330 (Reply 32):
    Working for Delta is not enough to negate everybody else's analysis on future SkyTeam partners.This is an internet forum and everybody has his own opinion.

    Your right, this is an internet forum. Where people can spout off whatever they want with no basis in fact, and those with actual information are questioned. I keep forgetting.

    So does that mean I get an opinion? Well, since this is an internet forum, I think Spirit will be the next member in SkyTeam. Wow, that feels good. It's much easier to just pull stuff out of my ass than to try and interject with logic.

    You're welcome to believe whatever you like. I stand by everything I've said.

    Quoting MEA330 (Reply 32):
    Kenya is already a partner in AF/KLM FFP Flying Blue with their logo on the back of the card, so they have the best chance of getting in.

    I disagree, and I'm closer to this than you are.

    Quoting MEA330 (Reply 32):
    As for MEA's application to SkyTeam, the situation in Lebanon since Feb2005 does not help but things are looking bright in the Future. MEA's IST flight feeds half of DL's flight IST-JFK and more pax will feed into the DL flights at ATH also. AF wants MEA in SkyTeam and eventually it will happen.

    I'm sorry you're gonna be disappointed.

    [Edited 2005-05-17 05:15:24]
     
    hjulicher
    Posts: 649
    Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:26 pm

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Tue May 17, 2005 1:57 pm

    Aeroflot would have already joined except that they do not meet the skyteam entrance requirements, which is what hinders their invitation. Yes, they are in the alliance, but cannot actually act as a member because they do not have their own terminal, one of the requirements to enter the alliance. hence, the reason aeroflot is pushing so hard to build Sheremeteyevo 3. If they can begin construction, then it is likely that an official statement will be made. Aeroflot has also been making gains on their customer service and image. That's why they have a new color scheme, and all employees have undergone rigorous training in standard company practices. Additionally, aeroflot's decision to switch so sabre airline solutions is also in response for them to join the alliance and therefore code share.
    LH 442
     
    hardiwv
    Posts: 4341
    Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Wed May 18, 2005 12:53 am

    Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 33):
    About TAM. Very unlikely. Pathetic international network and more ties with AA than AF.

    What do you mean "pathetic"? TAM and its subsidiary TAM Mercosur operate flights to Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia plus two daily flights to CDG, two daily to MIA and one daily to JFK as of October/05. In addition, the sole fact that TAM is the biggest domestic airline in a country which is half of South America already means it is important. TAM is the second biggest ailine in LatAm measured in terms of destinations served, pax carried, fleet size.

    Of course, you cannot compare JJ's international network with VARIG.

    Rgs,
     
    mauriceb
    Posts: 2150
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Wed May 18, 2005 12:55 am

    Quoting Wingedarrow (Reply 25):
    I don't want to appear parochial, MauriceB, but I think Alitalia seems to be doing fine in the Skyteam Alliance. We've just started a new codeshare activity with KLM besides the already existing and effective one with Air France

    with all the respect , but AZ isn't doing fine at all..... they had money from the government and they are going to need a new plan, wich is already done for some parts....
     
    chinaeastern
    Posts: 320
    Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:09 am

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Wed May 18, 2005 11:32 am

    any possibility than Air Tahiti Nui might join that alliance as well?
     
    JOYA380B747
    Posts: 663
    Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:31 pm

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Wed May 18, 2005 3:08 pm

    Hey Guys,
    You must have missed out Jet Airways. It has a lot of probability to join the SkyTeam although I've learnt on the Forum that it may join STAR, considering the fact that it is (probably)using some UA slots on LHR. I think Jet should join the former with AI joining STAR. Remember Jet's alliances with KLM-Northwest...

    Regds

    JOY
    If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
     
    wingedarrow
    Posts: 157
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Wed May 18, 2005 8:50 pm

    Quoting MauriceB (Reply 37):
    with all the respect , but AZ isn't doing fine at all..... they had money from the government and they are going to need a new plan, wich is already done for some parts....

    Just different point of views...
    אליטליה
     
    RCS763AV
    Posts: 3645
    Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Thu May 19, 2005 11:10 am

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 36):
    What do you mean "pathetic"? TAM and its subsidiary TAM Mercosur operate flights to Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia plus two daily flights to CDG, two daily to MIA and one daily to JFK as of October/05. In addition, the sole fact that TAM is the biggest domestic airline in a country which is half of South America already means it is important. TAM is the second biggest ailine in LatAm measured in terms of destinations served, pax carried, fleet size.

    So you call like 9 destinations a good international network for an airline that size.....
     
    MD11junkie
    Posts: 2499
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    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Thu May 19, 2005 11:28 am

    Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 41):
    So you call like 9 destinations a good international network for an airline that size.....

    Hardiwv is naming countries not actual destinations.There could be several destinations in one country. And if it's 9... it's MUCH more than what the SkyTeam members have in South America. JJ would be a great addition to SkyTeam, though I'd like to see AR in it Big grin

    Cheers! wave 
    Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie
    There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
     
    Kahala777
    Posts: 1513
    Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Thu May 19, 2005 11:29 am

    Quoting Sllevin (Reply 6):
    I'd much rather see MH than CI,

    CI - China Airlines, has improved their service like night and day. The airline has recently revamped its premium products and increased its presence in the North American market. CI now serves YVR, SEA, IAH, HNL, SFO, LAX, JFK.

    MH - Malaysia Airlines has a very limited presence in North America, where they only serve EWR, and LAX. Malaysia Airlines, offers an incredible product, however they at current have only a limited number of options from North America.


    Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 10):
    Avianca - no
    MEA - no

    Less you have forgotten:

    AV -Avianca, was on Continental Airlines list of airlines to purchase up until not to long ago. Avianca, would be a great addition to Sky Team and would offer increased capacity and service to South America. At current AV offers service to JFK, FLL, MIA. Connections can easily be made to SCL, LIM, UIO, GYE, CCS, GIG, GRU, and EZE.

    ME - MEA, is a partner for Air France and offers connections in Paris via Air France. Air France, offers connections in Beirut via MEA to the Middle East. MEA, as of recent has expressed a desire to serve more of Africa, and inaugurate service to Brasil, or Argentina. MEA, would be a very suitable addition to Sky Team. It is a great airline, with a great route system.

    Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 14):
    Isn't this covered by KE?

    KE - Korean Airlines offers service to AKL, SYD, BNE. The main problem with KE, is that all fo their service has to be routed via Seoul. Seoul, is not exactly in the best location for connections to the South Pacific from North America. For example, a person in New York wanting to go to Sydney would have to fly to Seoul - 14 hours, and then Sydney 10 hours. Including transit time, you are looking at a shocking 27-30 hour journey. Not enviable for anyone!

    Quoting Chinaeastern (Reply 38):
    Air Tahiti Nui

    TN - Air Tahiti Nui currently has code share deals in place with Qantas, and Air France. However, the relationship with Air France seems to have heated up a bot and things are looking good for both airlines. At current TN serves, will serve LAX, JFK, YVR. This year has brought the addition of SYD as well. This allowing connections to Sky Team partners in LAX, JFK!

    Regards - Kahala777
     
    keno
    Posts: 1809
    Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Thu May 19, 2005 9:24 pm

    Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 43):
    Malaysia Airlines, offers an incredible product, however they at current have only a limited number of options from North America.

    Agree. But MH offers excellent connection for travellers travel between Europe<->Australasia, Europe<->SE Asia, SE Asia<->Australia, South Africa<->Far East etc. Even KE can't really claim to handle all these markets well at the moment. It's not all about pleasing North American travelers you know  Wink.

    Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 43):
    For example, a person in New York wanting to go to Sydney would have to fly to Seoul - 14 hours, and then Sydney 10 hours. Including transit time, you are looking at a shocking 27-30 hour journey. Not enviable for anyone!

    That's exactly the reason why Skyteam should have their own direct N America<->Australasia service (GUM-CNS doesn't count, ok?). Connecting via East Asia doesn't make much sense. TN should be able to fill the gap, but a non-stop N America<->Australasia would be better.
     
    RCS763AV
    Posts: 3645
    Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Fri May 20, 2005 6:39 am

    Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 42):
    Hardiwv is naming countries not actual destinations.There could be several destinations in one country. And if it's 9... it's MUCH more than what the SkyTeam members have in South America. JJ would be a great addition to SkyTeam, though I'd like to see AR in it

    Really?

    CO in south america:

    GRU
    GIG
    BOG
    CLO soon
    CCS
    LIM
    UIO
    GYE
    EZE soon (i think)

    DL:

    SCL
    BOG
    CCS
    LIM
    GRU
    GIG soon
    EZE

    Sodeshare with AV:

    MDE
    CLO
    CTG
    PEI
    UIO
    GYE

    AF/KL:

    BOG
    CCS
    GIG
    GRU
    EZE
    SCL
    UIO
    GYE
    LIM

    Plus codeshares with JJ and others.

    JJ ALL international destinations

    EZE
    SCL
    VVI
    LIM is still a plan
    CDG
    MIA
    JFK (soon)
     
    hardiwv
    Posts: 4341
    Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Fri May 20, 2005 6:51 am

    RCS763AV:

    Sorry to say, but Skyteam is more interested in TAM's domestic network in Brazil (half of South America) rather than their "international network".

    TAM as a member of Sky would boost Sky operations in Brazil, which currently have the folllowing flights: AF - 2 daily; KL - 1 daily; CO - 2 daily; DL - 3 daily; AZ - 1 daily; AM - 1 daily Total: 10 daily flights to Brazil. [CZ - operates 2 x week charters to Northeast Brazil].

    In addition, foreign airlines arriving in Brazil are mainly interested in: 1) GRU-GIG; 2) domestic connections in Brazil; 2) international connections to deep South America: EZE, SCL, ASU, VVI, MVD - of these, JJ does not serve only one: MVD.

    TAM would be a major asset for Skyteam, and they know this. [unfortunately TAM has already decided for OW instead of SKy. TAM will join OW by the end of the year].

    Rgs,
     
    RCS763AV
    Posts: 3645
    Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Fri May 20, 2005 6:56 am

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 46):
    Sorry to say, but Skyteam is more interested in TAM's domestic network in Brazil (half of South America) rather than their "international network".

    TAM as a member of Sky would boost Sky operations in Brazil, which currently have the folllowing flights: AF - 2 daily; KL - 1 daily; CO - 2 daily; DL - 3 daily; AZ - 1 daily; AM - 1 daily Total: 10 daily flights to Brazil. [CZ - operates 2 x week charters to Northeast Brazil].

    In addition, foreign airlines arriving in Brazil are mainly interested in: 1) GRU-GIG; 2) domestic connections in Brazil; 2) international connections to deep South America: EZE, SCL, ASU, VVI, MVD - of these, JJ does not serve only one: MVD.

    An alliance rarely welcomes a member for their domestic network. (unless its star)

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 46):
    TAM would be a major asset for Skyteam, and they know this. [unfortunately TAM has already decided for OW instead of SKy. TAM will join OW by the end of the year].

    Really? I want to see the press release...
     
    MAS777
    Posts: 2757
    Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Fri May 20, 2005 7:03 am

    I seem to recall that MAS and NWA still have Antitrust Immunity which was never exercised as a fallout after 9/11. MAS and NWA had originally planned to coordinate their schedules at TPE, ICN, NRT, NGO and KIX for transpacific operations prior to that disasterous event in history.

    MAS had also approached CO to code-share on its then KUL-DXB-EWR route but things seem to have gone rather pear-shaped with the route being rerouted via ARN - which CO then decided to compete and launch their own ARN-EWR service.

    MAS as someone else had mentioned is also at loggerheads with AF and has been for years.

    On the upside though - MAS has a very cordial relationship with KLM which has seen AMS fast become MAS' second busiest route in Europe and both airlines are enjoying fantastic loads on the almost twice daily AMS-KUL run. MAS and KE are also enjoying rather friendly skies with Korean continuing to expand into the Malaysian market whilst MAS has been able to tap into Koreans transpacific routes.

    I think MAS will join Skyteam...

    a) when the Malaysian government finally sees it as an excellent opportunity to expand as oppose to 'selling out' to the other carriers.
    b) when KLM proves itself to be able to hold its own with its new 'partner' AF - as KLM would be MAS' strongest supporter within Skyteam.
     
    LipeGIG
    Posts: 5048
    Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

    RE: Who's Next To Join Skyteam?

    Fri May 20, 2005 8:17 am

    Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 36):
    What do you mean "pathetic"? TAM and its subsidiary TAM Mercosur operate flights to Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia plus two daily flights to CDG, two daily to MIA and one daily to JFK as of October/05. In addition, the sole fact that TAM is the biggest domestic airline in a country which is half of South America already means it is important. TAM is the second biggest ailine in LatAm measured in terms of destinations served, pax carried, fleet size.

    Of course, you cannot compare JJ's international network with VARIG.


    Agree. And note, TAM stopped accrual miles in AF flights (keep with code-share) and increase their relationship with AA. I do believe they become a new member of OW soonest.

    Without JJ the last chance for a good domestic network in Brazil will be Gol. GRU is a strong hub and a powerful profit maker but don't forget that 60% of it's international pax come from other cities thru domestic connections. BSB is bigger than EZE (and it's all domestic) and SSA / REC / FOR / CNF are all important markets too.
    New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !