airlinelover
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A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 5:32 am

So.. Is there a date yet for the A380's evac test? Also, is it going to be (hopefully) the full possible pax # in the test or only partial?

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
Matt72033
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 5:38 am

Didn't they advertise in local gyms for 700 odd people to volunteer?
Seems to defeat the object by getting fit healthy gym goers to do the test!

Matt
 
DLKAPA
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Thread starter):
So.. Is there a date yet for the A380's evac test? Also, is it going to be (hopefully) the full possible pax # in the test or only partial?

I has to be full load in order to be legal, I believe.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
airlinelover
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 2):
I has to be full load in order to be legal, I believe.

That's what I thought.. I Was just going thru my bookmarks and found this article http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?model...7174&pathId=52&page=1&archive=true and reading others that mentioned that Airbus wants to do a partial evac to "Reduce the risk of injury" among participants..

However, you've gotta see what can happen..

I'm curious to see what the outcome will be..

chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
EMBQA
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 5:49 am

It has to be full load in order to be legal, I believe.

I'm not 100% sure about the CAA/JAA, but with the FAA it will establish the max number of passengers the plane can carry.

The passengers must evacuate the aircraft with limited light and several doors locked out. The number of passengers that can get off the aircraft in the allotted time without major injury will be the number of certified passenger the plane can carry. With the Boeing 777, several people where injured during the first test and Boeing had to reduce the max passanger load. Airbus is selling this as a 550 passanger aircraft but guess what, if only 400 can get off...400 will be all it can carry.

[Edited 2005-05-15 22:52:51]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
airlinelover
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 6:07 am

Would definately be interesting to see what would happen if it would only certifiy to 400-450 people max..

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
ImperialAero
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 6:09 am

The A380 will have the maximum load of 853 passengers for the evac test. At the end of 90 seconds, with only 8 of the 16 exits in operation, the number of people safely evacuated will be the number of people it is certified to carry.

Seeing as the 777-300 is certified to carry 550 people, who exited from 5 of the 10 available exits on the respective test, it seems logical that upto 880 people would be able to get out of the 8 A380 exits.

Forecasts of Doom for the evacuation test seem like A380-bashers grasping at straws...

It's all a little sad really...
ICURFC - Who Is Sylvia?
 
SATL382G
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting ImperialAero (Reply 6):
Seeing as the 777-300 is certified to carry 550 people, who exited from 5 of the 10 available exits on the respective test, it seems logical that upto 880 people would be able to get out of the 8 A380 exits.

Forecasts of Doom for the evacuation test seem like A380-bashers grasping at straws...

It would interesting to see how the upper deck evac goes. I think we'll see some folks frozen at the door.
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
ita350
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 6:38 am

I still think that for airbus to conduct the test fairly they should get average people with a different age span.
 
vt977
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 6:42 am

As I understand Airbus has to complete the EVAC test in 90 sec. How did they come up with that time frame?
A conclusion is what you reach when you get tired of thinking.
 
RedDragon
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 7:09 am

Quoting VT977 (Reply 9):
As I understand Airbus has to complete the EVAC test in 90 sec. How did they come up with that time frame?

That's the standard FAA-and-equivalent allowance for evacuating a maximum passenger load through half the available exits.

Rich
 
ImperialAero
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 7:51 am

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 7):
It would interesting to see how the upper deck evac goes. I think we'll see some folks frozen at the door

That's the problem with the simulated tests, as I'm sure in a real emergency situation, a lick of flames behind them would un-freeze anyone questioning their resolve...
ICURFC - Who Is Sylvia?
 
pelican
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 8:18 am

Quoting ITA350 (Reply 8):
I still think that for airbus to conduct the test fairly they should get average people with a different age span.

You're right.That's the reason why the authorities made regulations about certain numbers of a specific age group that have to take part in the evacuation test. Hence the probands will be of all ages and not only young men.

pelican
 
Jet-lagged
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting ImperialAero (Reply 11):
That's the problem with the simulated tests, as I'm sure in a real emergency situation, a lick of flames behind them would un-freeze anyone questioning their resolve...

How do people get paid?

Maybe this is a little cynical, and not to mention probably not ethical or legal, but the aircraft maker could say "if we get X number of people, everyone gets $100. but if we get 2X people, you all get $250".

This test must cost a lot of money! Well worth it of course.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 8:42 am

Quoting Jet-lagged (Reply 13):

Maybe this is a little cynical, and not to mention probably not ethical or legal, but the aircraft maker could say "if we get X number of people, everyone gets $100. but if we get 2X people, you all get $250".

This test must cost a lot of money! Well worth it of course.

To simulate emergency behavior, it's better to give money to those who make it out first.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
jfkaua
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 10:00 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 1):
Didn't they advertise in local gyms for 700 odd people to volunteer?
Seems to defeat the object by getting fit healthy gym goers to do the test!

I think thats the point lol
 
SATL382G
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting ImperialAero (Reply 11):
That's the problem with the simulated tests, as I'm sure in a real emergency situation, a lick of flames behind them would un-freeze anyone questioning their resolve...

Trouble is the guy with the flames licking at his backside is at the end of the line vs. the guy frozen at the door being at the front of the line.
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
ASAFA
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 11:04 am

Quoting VT977 (Reply 9):
As I understand Airbus has to complete the EVAC test in 90 sec. How did they come up with that time frame?

Studies were done showing that after 90 seconds the odds of survival if you're still inside a smoke-filled cabin drop to almost zero. This has been the amount of time used for every passenger aircraft in the sky.
 
prosa
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 11:13 am

Quoting ITA350 (Reply 8):
I still think that for airbus to conduct the test fairly they should get average people with a different age span.

IIRC there has to be a certain number of people over age 60. Even so, they'll probably be healthier and more fit than average, as older people with significant physical limitations aren't likely to volunteer for the test. There also won't be any children, which I suppose is unavoidable as it would be unethical to use children in a potentially dangerous test, and I would doubt if there'll be any disabled people.
Of course, these test limitations undoubtedly held true for tests of other aircraft types, but given the A380's sheer size they may be of greater concern.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Lemurs
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 1:33 pm

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 7):
It would interesting to see how the upper deck evac goes. I think we'll see some folks frozen at the door.

I could have sworn I read an article, perhaps on Airbuses site itself, that the upper deck slides basically inflated with canopies over them, so that you couldn't really see how far down you were sliding, and how fair in the air you were. You would look down, and see the slide curving outward, and that's it. Makes great sense to me.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
Matt72033
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 3:16 pm

what about mothers with young children? will they be included?
 
DLKAPA
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 3:31 pm

Quoting ITA350 (Reply 8):
I still think that for airbus to conduct the test fairly they should get average people with a different age span.

Again, in order for the test to be certifiable, there are set age/mobility requirements and the amount of people necessary from each group.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Gary2880
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 4:25 pm

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 16):
Trouble is the guy with the flames licking at his backside is at the end of the line vs. the guy frozen at the door being at the front of the line.

quick kick up the backside would sort that out
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
zkeye
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 4:52 pm

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 22):
Quoting SATL382G (Reply 16):
Trouble is the guy with the flames licking at his backside is at the end of the line vs. the guy frozen at the door being at the front of the line.

quick kick up the backside would sort that out

And that's what anyone diddling around in front of me would get. No manners required in that situation!
Bring out the gimp
 
tavve
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 5:23 pm

I read somewhere, probably on a.net, that the A380 evac will be carried out in a non dark environment. This to reduce the risk of injuries. Does anyone know more about this?
GOT, that's where I live
 
Finkenwerder
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 6:24 pm

The evac mock up is being used continuously at the moment prior to the real test. Will let you know more when there is more
 
DOC
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 7:20 pm

I was told, that they used water tank, equivalent of the weight of 700 people.
 
Finkenwerder
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 7:27 pm

Quoting DOC (Reply 26):
I was told, that they used water tank, equivalent of the weight of 700 people.

They use people to the equivalent weight of ............people. Just like EASA asks them to.
 
eha
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 7:29 pm

The test will be done with Airbus employees, 800.
 
Morvious
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 7:31 pm

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 5):
Would definitely be interesting to see what would happen if it would only certify to 400-450 people Max..

Chris

Why in the world would it be interesting to see? Airbus would loose a fortune again just to set the plane's goal!

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 16):
Trouble is the guy with the flames licking at his backside is at the end of the line vs. The guy frozen at the door being at the front of the line.

Strong steward(es) at the door will do the kick Eh, trick!!
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
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lightsaber
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 7:41 pm

Quoting Eha (Reply 28):
The test will be done with Airbus employees, 800.

I would be very surprised if Airbus tests with less than the 880 target. That way if any passangers get scared and are unable to evacuate, the total is deducted down to a level the airlines will be happy with.

Quoting Morvious (Reply 29):
Strong steward(es) at the door will do the kick Eh, trick!!

Give them heals! That kick in the backside would motivate! Maybe import ex-border guards to help persuade...  duck 

Seriously, I have no doubt that airbus will be able to evacuate over 700 from the A388. What I'm curious about is the final number. Will it be 800? 850? 880? Mostly intellectual curiosity.


Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 21):

Again, in order for the test to be certifiable, there are set age/mobility requirements and the amount of people necessary from each group.

Thanks for adding sense and facts to this discussion.

One question: I would assume that the upper and lower decks would have their own passenger limits. Will this be the case? For instance, the 744 has a limit on the number of passengers allowed in the "hump" and that number is a function of the interior stair case that is installed too. So my question is in two parts: 1) Will the upper and lower decks each have their own limit? 2) Will the upper deck limit be effected by any customer options?

Lightsaber
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HT
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 9:10 pm

The current issue of german aviation publication "Aero International" (not available online) has a feature article about the pending evac test.
Some excerpts:


  • Will take place in Hamburg-Finkenwerder in late summer 2005.
  • Will use 873 probands (= the max. number of people allowed on board: pax + crew)
  • Probands will be from outside the aviation business; have to be healthy; age limits apply (can´t recall them); are not allowed to have participated in an evac test for xx months (don´t know, if a repetition of the test requires a new "batch" of probands)
  • The evac tests of both decks will be performed and evaluated seperately.
  • Test(s) may be repeated if initial test(s) fail.
  • As it is standard procedure, only half of the emergency exits will open (all on one side of the a/c); it will not be known which exits will open; the cabin will be dark (with emergency lighting on)
  • Crew will have to evacuate from its cockpit.
  • The official time limit of "90 seconds" can be interpreted as "9x10^1", thus meaning that "94 seconds" still is an acceptable result; however "95 seconds" is not accetable (that was in that article).


Regards,
HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
RedDragon
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 9:16 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 31):
The official time limit of "90 seconds" can be interpreted as "9x10^1", thus meaning that "94 seconds" still is an acceptable result; however "95 seconds" is not accetable (that was in that article).

In other words, they can round the resulting time to the nearest ten seconds?

Interesting that the upper and lower deck tests will be tested separately - albeit entirely consistent with Airbus' planning/assertion that evacuations will be deck-separated and not use the internal stairs. Perhaps not the most realistic, but then this is a standardised benchmark test, so...

Rich
 
UAalltheway
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 9:21 pm

Is the cabin even fully outfitted yet?
 
HT
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 9:24 pm

Quoting UAalltheway (Reply 33):
Is the cabin even fully outfitted yet?

They will outfit one of the a/c used in the certification tests for this; I think it was #4.
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
sabenapilot
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 9:35 pm

Indeed HT, your source is correct:

Airbus will NOT run a full show in which you will see an evacuation being demonstrated like you would (hopefully never) see it in real; they will however conduct separate evacuation trials, meaning lower deck will be done first (repeated if the number is too low) and only when the evacuation test of the lower deck has been successfully completed, the upper deck evacuation test will be performed till satisfaction. Both results will then simply be added up.

Before somebody cries scandal about this new method: the reason is that contrary to a real evacuation, this test will not be done in the open field and Airbus knows from past experiences people do not stay clear from the area around the plane quickly enough when the test is done in a hangar and often hinder those still coming of the slides.... By doing the test in 2 steps, airbus takes out around 450 idle persons basically standing in the way under the slides.
 
Finkenwerder
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Mon May 16, 2005 9:37 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 31):
The current issue of german aviation publication "Aero International" (not available online) has a feature article about the pending evac test.

Whilst I'm sure this is an august peridoical, I can confirm having actually been inside the mock up that ...

1. It's very high
2. Sports club members from Hamburg seem to be the latest recruits (climbers in particular )
3. It's very high

Whilst press speculation is useful it's only that....speculation
 
AR385
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 3:05 am

I was once in a 727-200 REAL evacuation due to no. 2 engine blowing up at V1. I exited via the R-1 slide.

1. I can tell you that unless the test includes some element of urgency on its "probands", or a real motivator for such to get out first ( like money ) or something, the test is really a pretty irrelevant exercise. And I say this whether it's the 777-300 or the A-380

2. The mind works funny tricks. Even from the 727, when I got to the slide, it looked high. However I did not hesitate to jump into the slide, but others might.

3. Designers of these tests underestimate the craziness on board. The plane was filling with smoke. I am 1.86 mts tall, 100 kg and work out regularly. I was on a window seat and could not leave it and get to the aisle. Finally I said screw politeness and if it weren't for my elbows, fists, kicks, pushing, and shoving I would still be seated on that lovely window seat getting a real high from the noxious fumes to the tune of "Lucy in the sky with diamonds".

4. Even though wearing tough jeans, going down the slide, I chaffed my butt, and underside of legs and they remained chaffed for a week. I don't know what would happen to the butts of people sliding from the upper deck of the A-380 or to those wearing shorts. They will probably leave their epidermis smeared on the slide on the way down.

5. Doing one deck first and then the other deck is an exercise in futility just to satisfy designers and FAA, JAA and ICAO bureaucrats.

My message is, whatever the results of the test, don't pay attention to them. Think of them as a joke, really. Always "read the safety card in the seat pocket in front of you", do not wear shorts or short sleeved shirts on a plane trip, be prepared to make your fear of heights disappear pretty quickly and only think of getting out. Nothing else should be on your mind. Believe me, nobody is going to go back and get you, specially if there is smoke in the cabin.

Sorry if I got off topic.
 
HT
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 37):
Sorry if I got off topic.

Nothing to worry about; I really appreciated reading your post !

HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
jamesbuk
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 3:26 am

lets work this out
853 / 8 = 106.625 106.625/90=1.18472222R / = divide
so that means they have to get pax out 1.18 a second sounds a little hard especially getting them out of the way at the bottem
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
MKEdude
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 3:39 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 37):
Sorry if I got off topic

Totally on topic, and more relevant than most. How can you accurately simulate an emergency situation? The 380 will get certified no matter what, but we still won't know how it handles an emergency evacuation until there is a real one.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
aeropiggot
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 3:42 am

I participated in the 777 evacuation test, and a passenger did freeze up at the door. The stewardess promptly pushed her out on the slide. The test is fairly scientific, we were each given numbers to wear over our clothes, and a video camera recorded the exit as we came down the slides. The outside environment was also darkening to simulate night time I guess. I remember two or three ladies getting carried away by ambulances, and some passengers were treated for burns from the slides. All Boeing gave us was a lunch, and a thanks for participating speech.
A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
 
eg777er
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 3:48 am

I'm reminded of the Billy Connoly sketch:

Ladies and Gentlemen, when we hit the water at 200mph calmly remove your lifejacket from its container and place it.....
 
2H4
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 4:04 am



I've always wondered....if you're evacuating in heavy rain, does this:





Turn into this?





2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
AR385
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 4:56 am

2H4,

No, that's why you burn or chaff your lower extremities, including the one between your legs if you are unlucky. The slide is designed to prevent people from flying out of control at the end of their slide, no matter the weather.
 
norcal
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 43):
I've always wondered....if you're evacuating in heavy rain, does this:

LOL that would be awesome!
 
Luv767s
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Reply 41):
passengers were treated for burns from the slides

That's why you shouldn't wear pants that are made of synthetic material because they will no longer be pants when you make it to the end of the slide...just a melted mess. An airline maintenance employee friend of mine told us to always wear cotton (or natural material) pants when you fly just in case you have to evacuate and you don't want your pants catching fire.
-"...never have I been a blue calm sea, I have always been a storm"
 
AJRfromSYR
Posts: 439
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 6:10 am

On the slide or in a cabin fire you don't want your polyester melting to your legs.
-AJR-
 
greasespot
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Tue May 17, 2005 6:25 am

Think of the fun careening off the end of the slide accross the pavement.....(while leaving a trail of skin behing) Jumping up and screaming .....Again....A total amusement park ride.

I would sign up for the test in a min.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
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PipoA380
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RE: A380 Evac Test

Fri May 20, 2005 7:00 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 48):
I would sign up for the test in a min.

So would I!

Anyway, 880 people out of 8 doors makes just about 110 per door, and if I count well 110 people in 90 seconds makes over one person per second, without even counting the time it will take the FAs to open the doors and for the slides to deploy. How much time is there to be taken away? 15 seconds? That leaves 75 seconds, and that makes just about 1.5 person a second!

Possible?
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.

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