rootsair
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Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 4:45 pm

Hi folks,
Didn't know whether to post this thread up in the military or civil aviation forum since it concerns a bit of both. I decided to post it up here.


Many aircraft mnufacteres are active both in the military and civil air market. Such an example is Boeing or then again Lockheed!
Airbus has always focused on civil aviation as far as I know, but I was wondering if plans for it to build military planes have already been discussed!

Regards

BM
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antiuser
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 4:59 pm

They've pitched a tanker version of the A330 to compete with Boeing's 767 to the US Air Force, if I recall correctly.
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mauriceb
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 4:59 pm

Yes they are actually bussy with Some military projects on the moment...

1 is the A330 tanker
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kristof Jonckheere




and the second is the C-130 replacement, with over 190 orders or so , its called the A400

http://www.airbusmilitary.com/

[Edited 2005-05-16 10:01:01]
 
777ER
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 5:12 pm

As what has been said already, Airbus do build military aircraft.

A330 fuel tanker to compete with B767 fuel tanker
A400 military transport
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LifelinerOne
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 6:40 pm

Currently Airbus has the following military planes on sale:

*A310MRT
*A330MRT
*A400M

Now I could see the Eurofighter project being put under the Airbus Military program in the future as it's being build by the same companies that form Airbus. Eurofighter can also use the big Airbus PR-machine.

Cheers!
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VS74741R
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 6:56 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 2):
and the second is the C-130 replacement, with over 190 orders or so , its called the A400

I thought it was too big to replace the C130. I heard it was to compete with the C17. Is that right, or did I get it wrong?
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atmx2000
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 7:03 pm

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 4):

Now I could see the Eurofighter project being put under the Airbus Military program in the future as it's being build by the same companies that form Airbus. Eurofighter can also use the big Airbus PR-machine

Alenia isn't an Airbus company, and Italian companies don't own a part of Airbus, though they do contract work for both Airbus and Boeing. Moreover, there is no French participation in the Eurofighter, and I don't think the French would want the Eurofighter to be able to benefit from the "Airbus PR-machine" since it would interfere with Rafale and Mirage sales.
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atmx2000
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 7:04 pm

Quoting VS74741R (Reply 5):
I thought it was too big to replace the C130. I heard it was to compete with the C17. Is that right, or did I get it wrong?

It fits somewhere in the middle capacitywise, but rolewise it is supposed to be a C130 replacement.
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eha
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 7:05 pm

A400M is an Airbus military A/C.

It will be developped and built like a commercial A/C (certified like a civil and military A/C). Some equipment will be taken from existing commercial A/C (I believe, APU is A320 one and some flaps will be from A340)...

avionics/cockpit developped in Toulouse. Again, expect re-use/derivatives from A380 IMA (Integrated Modular Avionics).

E.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 7:06 pm

Not wanting to criticize anybody in person, but I must say I am stunned by the lack of knowledge many of us have about the existence of the A400M.

On numerous occasions I have met people who can tell you all possible details about the Airbus product line and their progress on all-new developments like the A350-800/-900 or the A380-800/-900, yet have never heard about that other all-new plane airbus is designing in parallel to all those above: the A400!

The A400 is set to be a modern, multi-role airlifter aimed at replacing the fleets of C-130 Hercules and C-160 Transall in service with the air forces around the world. The A400 has more than twice the payload and volume of the aircraft it will replace. The A400 is designed to civil certification standards complemented where appropriate by specific military requirements. The aircraft design incorporates leading state-of-the-art technology including:

-) High performance turboprop engines, allowing operation in civil air traffic control environment.
http://www.airbusmilitary.com/gallery/a400mfinalsturn1024.jpg

-) Fly-by-wire Flight Control System with sidestick control and Flight Envelope Protection, already proven in Airbus commercial aircraft.
http://www.airbusmilitary.com/gallery/a400mcockpit1024.jpg

-) High flotation landing gear, allowing operation from short, unpaved airfields.
http://www.airbusmilitary.com/gallery/a400mdesertland1024.jpg

-) Advanced structural design incorporating extensive use of composite materials, more so than on the 787 even!
http://www.airbusmilitary.com/gallery/a400mfrancazal1024.jpg

Once certified, the A400 will also be offered to civil cargo airlines and Airbus expect modest sales.

edit: added some pictures

[Edited 2005-05-16 12:18:28]
 
N766UA
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 7:57 pm

They kind of are already. Airbus is a subsidiary of EADS and EADS does alot of military work, among other things. Although not as directly involved as Boeing, Airbus certainly does do some gov't and military work already.
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LifelinerOne
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:05 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):
Moreover, there is no French participation in the Eurofighter, and I don't think the French would want the Eurofighter to be able to benefit from the "Airbus PR-machine" since it would interfere with Rafale and Mirage sales.

Word is that Dassault and Eurofighter are looking into more cooperation. So, who knows what the future will hold. Both companies realise that they are to small to survive on their own.

Cheers!  wave 
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LifelinerOne
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:13 pm

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 11):
Both companies realise that they are to small to survive on their own.

And with that I mean the military division of Dassault, not the executive jets. However, Airbus businessjets.... Big grin

Cheers!
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eha
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:24 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):
Moreover, there is no French participation in the Eurofighter, and I don't think the French would want the Eurofighter to be able to benefit from the "Airbus PR-machine" since it would interfere with Rafale and Mirage sales.

But EADS is part of Eurofighter. So...your assumption ("no french participation") is wrong. Even if the EADS part of Eurofighter is german, EADS is a company with "french" shareolders.
 
monteycarlos
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:27 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
Airbus has always focused on civil aviation as far as I know, but I was wondering if plans for it to build military planes have already been discussed!

They have sold at least 5 A330MRT's to the Royal Australian Air Force, as well as developing the A400M. There are also several A310 Military aircraft flying...
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atmx2000
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:48 pm

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 11):
Word is that Dassault and Eurofighter are looking into more cooperation. So, who knows what the future will hold. Both companies realise that they are to small to survive on their own.

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/050511/323/filem.html

So if Dassault buys into EADS, only Alenia on the Eurofighter side is outside. Of course the problem with Alenia is that it is a major Boeing contractor as well.
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lazyshaun
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:50 pm

Airbus are too safe to go military!!!
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LifelinerOne
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 8:55 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 15):
So if Dassault buys into EADS, only Alenia on the Eurofighter side is outside. Of course the problem with Alenia is that it is a major Boeing contractor as well.

Well, Stork in The Netherlads is a big Airbus contracter, but also won a big Boeing contract for the new B747 Supertransporter. I think a company can work on both things, you just need to make good and clear rules.

Cheers!  wave 
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atmx2000
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 9:04 pm

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 17):
Well, Stork in The Netherlads is a big Airbus contracter, but also won a big Boeing contract for the new B747 Supertransporter. I think a company can work on both things, you just need to make good and clear rules.

As long as they aren't a shareholder in EADS, it isn't likely to be a problem. The question is how does EADS fully integrate the Eurofighter into its offerings with Alenia (and BAE) outside.
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squirrel83
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 9:42 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
Airbus has always focused on civil aviation as far as I know, but I was wondering if plans for it to build military planes have already been discussed!

Airbus Military has been around for years. . . There are now eight European Countries involved in the 400m Program, South Africa I belive is number Eight.





I have a cuple questions - -

Where do they build the aircraft? (Obviously if you take a look in the pictures that is not Farbrough or TLS . . )
Where are they tested?
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eha
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 9:51 pm

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 19):
Where do they build the aircraft? (Obviously if you take a look in the pictures that is not Farbrough or TLS . . )
Where are they tested?

FAL is in Spain, close to Sevilla (EADS-CASA).
 
cymro
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RE: Could Airbus Go Military?

Mon May 16, 2005 9:56 pm

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 19):
I have a cuple questions - -

Where do they build the aircraft? (Obviously if you take a look in the pictures that is not Farbrough or TLS . . )
Where are they tested?

Try this link it gives an idea of work share.

http://www.defence.com/prog5.aspx