aeropiggot
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US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 2:19 am

Well, once again Airbus figures out how to sell a new model to the airlines. The article below mentioned that in return for the loan Us Airways and American West would be purchasing the A350. Airbus proves to be more innovative, and I bet Leahy as something to do with this. Boeing should offer this guy, the CEO job??? Big grin

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050515/us_airways_america_west.html?.v=4
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EA CO AS
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 2:32 am

Airbus proves to be more innovative

You mean by BUYING orders from customers?  Wink
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scbriml
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 2:36 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 1):
You mean by BUYING orders from customers?

Well, according to lots of the armchair CEOs here, Airbus has been giving their planes away for years, so this is the next logical step!  sarcastic 
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DeltaWings
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 2:47 am

With what do they want to replace USs 762s with? Isnt the A358 to much of a plane for that? Im shure the 783/8 would have been better as a replacement.


~DeltaWings
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PennPal
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 3:21 am

Didn't Airbus do something similar in the mid '70s with Eastern to introduce the A300 to the North American market?? Seems to me the airline was able to procure about 23 aircraft dirt cheap...
 
aeropiggot
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 3:27 am

Quote:
You mean by BUYING orders from customers?

My only question is, why Boeing didn't see this opportunity. With these carriers right in their "backyard"???
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akelley728
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 3:30 am

Some more information in this earlier (now locked) thread:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2113602/
 
QQFLYER28
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 3:31 am

Maybe Boeing took a look at the opportunity and decided to pass. The merger of these two carries is a financial risk to all of the lenders involved.
 
dutchjet
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting PennPal (Reply 4):
Didn't Airbus do something similar in the mid '70s with Eastern to introduce the A300 to the North American market?? Seems to me the airline was able to procure about 23 aircraft dirt cheap...

That transaction was not really the same, back then Airbus was sitting with many manufactured A300s that had no customers (white-tails)......Airbus made a deal with Eastern that allowed Eastern to fly 4 A300s for one winter season (1978 I believe) on its route system for a nominal leasing price - Eastern could return the A300s with no penalities. In other words, EA could try out the A300 and see how it liked it. EA went on to place a big order for the A300 at very sharp terms - this was all before anyone took Airbus very seriously. Did EA really need another 250 pax jet at the time (remember, EA also had a big 1011 fleet)? Not really, but thats another story. This was a good move by Airbus and very different from what is going on now. Remember, Douglas did the same thing with TW and AA with the MD80; the MD80 got off to a slow start and McDD allowed both TW and AA to try the type - each got 15 aircraft on favorable lease terms which allowed the aircraft to be returned at any time. Each went on to become big MD80 customers and the program was jump-started.

In the current situation, Airbus seems to be offering bankrupcty exit financing to the merged HP/US (and now there is a rumor that UA also has a like offer) that is contingent up or linked to these airlines placing orders for the A350.
 
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 3:44 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 3):
With what do they want to replace USs 762s with? Isnt the A358 to much of a plane for that? Im shure the 783/8 would have been better as a replacement.


~DeltaWings

You'd be suprised, but slip a company 250 million Washingtons and they'll find a way to make it work!

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8):
In the current situation, Airbus seems to be offering bankrupcty exit financing to the merged HP/US (and now there is a rumor that UA also has a like offer) that is contingent up or linked to these airlines placing orders for the A350.

I'l ltell you something, I had thought the industry was recovering. USAirways seemed better, and Untied seemed to be coming back. What happened in the past few months to screw these 2 companies. I hope this merger works out well as it will allow some legecies (Delta and AA namely, but also United) to recover and it will also help ease capacity. I also hope United recovers as well. Is there a way United could be involved in the merger at all?
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boeingfever777
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 3:48 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 1):
You mean by BUYING orders from customers?

HAHA...they can't win an order so they will buy American carriers loan them Airbus money to buy Airbus a/c???

Guess they need some sorta deal to jump start there almost dead A350 drawings?

Quoting QQFLYER28 (Reply 7):
Maybe Boeing took a look at the opportunity and decided to pass. The merger of these two carries is a financial risk to all of the lenders involved.

Yeah that and Airbus loses on the deal the French gov. will most likely pick up the pieces and reimburse Airbus.
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DAYflyer
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 4:01 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Reply 5):
My only question is, why Boeing didn't see this opportunity. With these carriers right in their "backyard"???

Boeing is not in the business of airline ownership or operations. They sell or lease aircraft, they do not provide financing of airlines themselves.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8):
In the current situation, Airbus seems to be offering bankrupcty exit financing to the merged HP/US (and now there is a rumor that UA also has a like offer) that is contingent up or linked to these airlines placing orders for the A350.

Providing this type of financing is very risky with the domestic overcapacity issues facing US carriers like US/HP/UAL.
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Danny
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 4:14 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 11):
Boeing is not in the business of airline ownership or operations. They sell or lease aircraft, they do not provide financing of airlines themselves.

What happened with Hawaiian then?
 
toltommy
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 4:40 am

Boeing didn't provide capital to HA. Boeing has leased aircraft to HA. When HA went to Boeing asking to renegotiate their existing leases, Boeing wasn't interested. HA wasn't bluffing, and filed CH11. Apples and oranges.
 
ouboy79
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 4:53 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 3):
With what do they want to replace USs 762s with? Isnt the A358 to much of a plane for that? Im shure the 783/8 would have been better as a replacement.

The 767-200s will be replaced by the A330-200s coming in a few years. The 350s will more than likely be expansion aircraft since they are still 5+ years away. A lot is going to change between now and then.

Quoting AeroPiggot (Reply 5):
My only question is, why Boeing didn't see this opportunity. With these carriers right in their "backyard"???

I think you seem to forget the relationship between US Airways and Boeing. It all came down to Flight 427 going down in Pittsburgh. Boeing blamed the airline for the crash happen, (then) USAir answered with the immediate cancellation of 40 737 and 10 757 confirmed orders and announced the 400 aircraft deal with Airbus.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 4:56 am

Brilliant Airbus, pay airlines money to fly your planes.

Its great advertising strategy  Yeah sure
 
dutchjet
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting PennPal (Reply 4):

My only question is, why Boeing didn't see this opportunity. With these carriers right in their "backyard"???

Maybe Boeing simply does not think lending $250 million to the combined HP/US is a wise investment. Its a lot of money to invest into a newly formed airline - and remember, HP and US have 3 bankrupcty proceeding between them in recent years and many unresolved financial issues, not to mention the difficulties of merging the two carriers to overcome. The loan has a good amount of risk associated with it, maybe Airbus is willing to take the risk and Boeing is not.
 
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mariner
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
maybe Airbus is willing to take the risk and Boeing is not.

So - in review:

(i) Airbus, a non-American company, which is owed millions by US Airways - is doing something bad in trying to protect those millions.

(ii) GECAS, an American company, which is owed millions by US Airways - and is also trying to protect those millions - is not mentioned.

Yeh. I got the picture.

mariner
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KL808
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 5:16 am

I would like to look at this as a win win situation for all parties involved.

US/HP will get extra needed funding, to keep them aloft. This intern will save thousands of jobs.

Airbus will definitely get an order. Who says it HAS to be the A350, I bet you there's a Claus in there that they could order any aircraft they want.

I dont see it useful for US/HP to have A350's at the moment, but who knows time will tell.
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Danny
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 5:31 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 13):
Boeing didn't provide capital to HA. Boeing has leased aircraft to HA. When HA went to Boeing asking to renegotiate their existing leases, Boeing wasn't interested. HA wasn't bluffing, and filed CH11. Apples and oranges.

Absolutely apples and apples. Boeing is an investor in HA period.

Airbus may do the same to:
1. Prevent a bunch of used Airbus aircraft hit the market if US sinks.
2. Secure a customer for the future.
3. Invest their profits and get a return on it.

It's a normal business. Remember when Boeing bought back Airbus aircraft to sell 777? Yeah apples and oranges  sarcastic .
 
aeropiggot
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 5:42 am

Quote:
from Dutchjet: Maybe Boeing simply does not think lending $250 million to the combined HP/US is a wise investment. Its a lot of money to invest into a newly formed airline - and remember, HP and US have 3 bankrupcty proceeding between them in recent years and many unresolved financial issues, not to mention the difficulties of merging the two carriers to overcome. The loan has a good amount of risk associated with it, maybe Airbus is willing to take the risk and Boeing is not.

Again $250 M might not be a bad investment, if the return could be Billions in airplane orders, and take away a very important Airbus operator in the US. At least that is my thinking process here. I am also aware of the spat between US Air (Stephen Wolf, he did the same thing while at UA with the A320 order) and Boeing, it seems like a good opportunity to repair that dispute also??
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dl021
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 5:52 am

Wow.....talk about throwing good money after bad....


I wonder when the investors at Airbus will raise a flag on this idea...the airlines still have the same route structure, same union labor issues and more debt, even though they will be merged.

Who else doubts if they'll consider any orders from such an arrangement strong enough for the purposes of giving the ok for production?
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gigneil
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 5:55 am

They won't have the same route structure, obviously, and they'll probably add significant connecting the dots sorts of things.

In terms of a domestic network, it'll be stronger than Continental's, for example.

N
 
Ruscoe
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 5:56 am

I have two questions:

1. If Airbus have $250 million to give away why don't they put it into discounts at a more viable airline to win an order?

2. Is this really Airbus money, or is it Govt money? This would be a very smart way for Europe Inc to assist Airbus, without it being a subsidy!

Ruscoe
 
jmc1975
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
Well, once again Airbus figures out how to sell a new model to the airlines. The article below mentioned that in return for the loan Us Airways and American West would be purchasing the A350.

It's America West! How do you get the heading correct but screw up the rest????
.......
 
NYC777
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:13 am

Let's see..a $250mm loan (adding debt to the b/s)
buy 20 A350 (assuming $150mm per plane) $3bn that needs to financed (read: more debt)
No cash reserve to speak of
debt up the wazoo
high operating cost
Airbus desperate to sell a plane that isn't selling

equals

LOSE-LOSE
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mariner
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:20 am

NYC777:

Let's see: the deal only goes ahead if there is at least $500 million in new funding.

Of which the majority will come from PAR Capital. Some ($150 million) may come from ACE Holdings (Air Canada).

Some ($125 million) will come from Air Wisconsin. Some ($125 million) will come from Republic.

Some - an undisclosed amount - will come from GECAS, in the form of loans for new aircraft.

They scarcely need Airbus at that rate, who are only providing funding for some new aircraft.

So your point is - ?

mariner
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Ruscoe
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:20 am

NYC777,
You forgot to add that Airbus needs to spend 5 billion or so Euro to develop it also, and it does not appear to have wide customer appeal.

Ruscoe
 
SFORunner
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:26 am

EU governments will spend money to "subsidize" the development of the A350.

Airbus will spend money to "subsidize" US Airways and America West, United States companies.

WTO =  scratchchin 


Maybe if UA were in better shape, Airbus would have used them as the A350 launch customer as Airbus is a large UA creditor ....of course, they still could.
 
NYC777
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 26):
NYC777:

Let's see: the deal only goes ahead if there is at least $500 million in new funding.

Of which the majority will come from PAR Capital. Some ($150 million) may come from ACE Holdings (Air Canada).

Some ($125 million) will come from Air Wisconsin. Some ($125 million) will come from Republic.

Some - an undisclosed amount - will come from GECAS, in the form of loans for new aircraft.

They scarcely need Airbus at that rate, who are only providing funding for some new aircraft.

So your point is - ?

mariner

You missed the point. I'm looking at it from the Airbus-HP/US point of view.

Airbus will commit to a plane that doesn't appear to have any customer appeal or raises the bar like the 787 does. They invest a whole boatload of European money in order fiannce a non-competitive product. In addition if US/HP does fail (three ch. 13 filing between the two airlines) Airbus (and other creditors will be holding a lot of airplanes which will drive down prices for existing Airbus models (as both HP and US have a majority of Airbus planes). LOSE

It saddles the new US/HP airline with a larger debt load via the financing of these newairplanes with out any thought to route structure or any other economic analysis. In other words Airbus' offer to HP/US is $250mm for an order of 20 A350 that you may or may not need. Take it or leave it. LOSE.

Therefore it is a LOSE-LOSE proposition.
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Aloha717200
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:31 am

It seems to me that Airbus will do ANYTHING to sell their A350 now. These little "business deals" are making my blood boil. I just saw the UA thread about Airbus rumoured to be offering help to United for exit financing in return to an exclusivity contract.

I hope Boeing takes them to the WTO and nails their asses to the wall. This is bullshit!
 
NYC777
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:32 am

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 30):
I hope Boeing takes them to the WTO and nails their asses to the wall. This is bullshit!

Absolutely but this is the only way that Airbus feels it could compete given all the recent big wins by Boeing.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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mariner
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 29):
In other words Airbus' offer to HP/US is $250mm for an order of 20 A350 that you may or may not need. Take it or leave it. LOSE.

Why do you ignore all the other investors, from PAR Capitial through Air Wisconsin, through Republic through Air Canada.

And GE.

You do not explain how it is only Airbus monmey (which isn't even money, but goods and service) which will saddle the new airline with debt.

Nor do you explain why America West shares went up 9% today on Wall Street.

mariner
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AJRfromSYR
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:36 am

How many firm orders does Airbus have right now for the A350?
-AJR-
 
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glideslope
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:37 am

Holy COW!! I had no idea Airbus was in such dire straits. If I were an EU Taxpayer I would be appalled at this unimaginable waste of my hard earned money. To think the only way to sell the A350 is by these means? My, what has the company become?
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:38 am

Compete by cheating. Yeah, that's real ethical. "We'll give you 250 million if you order A350s, and then we'll tell the news media that our plane is clearly superior to Boeing's because we've 'won' your order. You scratch our back, we'll scratch yours"


I always favoured boeing but never had anything against Airbus. But I quickly am finding a reason to dislike them, and it's garbage like this. What'd be REAL priceless is if UA were to call airbus on this and actually address the media themselves about it, and then order a buttload of 787s.

Airbus can't sell their inferior plane so they're going to be sneaky about it. Airbus...here's an idea...a novel one at that. Build a better airplane.
 
aeropiggot
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:40 am

Quote:
It's America West! How do you get the heading correct but screw up the rest????

OK "Jmc1975" I stand corrected.
A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
 
NYC777
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:43 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 32):
You do not explain how it is only Airbus monmey (which isn't even money, but goods and service) which will saddle the new airline with debt.

They're making HP/US commit to buying 20 A#%0. Do the yhave the cash NO! How do they get the money to buy these planes...issue debt or get bank financing....this adds to the debt load of the company.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 32):
Why do you ignore all the other investors, from PAR Capitial through Air Wisconsin, through Republic through Air Canada.

And GE.

It's irrelevant to my discussion. I'm looking at it from the Airbus-HP/US POV as I had already stated.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 32):
Nor do you explain why America West shares went up 9% today on Wall Street.

Only because they have a greater access to market where they are, at best, marginal players. That market beingthe US East coast where US is stronger.

The same thing with the proposed US/UA deal. US was strong in the East Coast while UA had strong market presence in the midwest and west.

HP will benefit from the synergy by merging with US not because they'll be getting the A350. For god sake they're largest aircraft is the 757.
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NYC777
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting AJRfromSYR (Reply 33):
How many firm orders does Airbus have right now for the A350?

0

Only a MoU from Air Europa for 10.

They haven't even decided to go with development.

[Edited 2005-05-16 23:50:28]
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
AJRfromSYR
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:47 am

What's so unethical about this?

I imagine Airbus knows the A350 won't stack up to the 787, so they are doing what they can to sell it. Giving 250mil to a company who promises to buy 2bil worth of aircraft down the road doesn't sound like a bad business idea for Airbus.
-AJR-
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting AJRfromSYR (Reply 39):
I imagine Airbus knows the A350 won't stack up to the 787

That's what makes it unethical. They are bribing airlines to buy an inferior product.
 
NYC777
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:51 am

Though it would be a win for Boeing. It commits Airbus to producing an inferior product which won't sell in too many numbers vis a vis the 787. However the Europeans will most certainly bail out Airbus in the event of any large losses.
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mariner
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:53 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 37):
HP will benefit from the synergy by merging with US not because they'll be getting the A350. For god sake they're largest aircraft is the 757.

Now I am completely confused. Until this morning, Wall Street was extremely against the merger. HP shares have been taking a major hit since it first leaked.

Today, since the financing story came out, the shares went up 9%.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 37):
They're making HP/US commit to buying 20 A#%0. Do the yhave the cash NO! How do they get the money to buy these planes...issue debt or get bank financing....this adds to the debt load of the company.

I am delighted that you can seperate one group of debt from another. On a balance sheet, all debt is the same. Debt.

Nor is this kind of deal new for America West and Airbus. They have done it before.

I would also point out that GECAS - a subsidiary of the US company GE - will actually be financing the aircraft. $250 million would pay for - what - one plane?

And since GECAS is the prime mover in the merger - and have clearly invited Airbus along - are they "forcing" anything on anyone?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
AJRfromSYR
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 40):
That's what makes it unethical. They are bribing airlines to buy an inferior product.

If the product is inferior the price will be adjusted id assume. You don't pay Ruth Chris prices for a Big Mac.

EDIT: Hence the $250mil "discount"

[Edited 2005-05-16 23:58:13]
-AJR-
 
NYC777
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 42):
I am delighted that you can seperate one group of debt from another. On a balance sheet, all debt is the same. Debt.

Ok I don't no what you're smoking but let me know who your dealer is. I never seperated any debt load from another. All I said is that to purchase these planes it will add to the debt load. That and the $250mm from Airbus is not simply money that they're giving US/HP but A LOAN!! MEANING IT HAS TO BE REPAIDED!!!!!

Quoting AJRfromSYR (Reply 43):
If the product is inferior the price will be adjusted id assume. You don't pay Ruth Chris prices for a Big Mac.

List price for a 787 is about $120mm whereas the list price for a A350 is around $150mm. Even with discounts I doubt that the A350 will be able to compete effectively with the 787 on price. So far that has been bourne out with with over 250 orders for the 787 and only 10 for the A350.

[Edited 2005-05-17 00:03:33]
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mariner
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 44):
That and the $250mm from Airbus is not simply money that they're giving US/HP but A LOAN!! MEANING IT HAS TO BE REPAIDED!!!!!

Yes, like all the other loans - which will have to be repaid.

Nor is the Airbus loan actual money, but goods and services which can be worked off, not paid off.

So why is Airbus the only villain here?

Oh, no, wait, silly question. I already know the answer.

mariner
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NYC777
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 7:09 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 45):
Yes, like all the other loans - which will have to be repaid.

Then you agreed that this deal will add significantly to HP/US already heavy debt load mainly because they will have to purchase $3bn worth of planes.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 45):
So why is Airbus the only villain here?

I never said that they're a villian that this a very bad deal for them and also raises a lot of issues like: Can an airplane manufacturer essentiall own part of an airline? Sounds anti-competitive to me.
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NYC777
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 7:12 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 45):
Nor is the Airbus loan actual money, but goods and services which can be worked off, not paid off.

Worked off? How? They're not going to work off anything if they're saddled with more debt, a route structure that is unfavorable to them because of LCC competition, no international service to speak off (which is where the real money is), continued high labor costs, continued high fuel costs.

[Edited 2005-05-17 00:15:33]
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mariner
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 7:15 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 46):
Then you agreed that this deal will add significantly to HP/US already heavy debt load mainly because they will have to purchase $3bn worth of planes.

No. Given the numbers we are talking about, $250 million is but a splash in the pond and can be worked off, not paid off.

The only you should be worried about is GECAS, if they fund 20 x A350's.

I mean, HP/US could always go Chapter 11 again, leaving GECAS on the hook - to Airbus - for 20 x A350's.

So if this deal is such a bad one, you might want to think twice about buying shares in GE.

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avek00
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RE: US Airways, America West To Get $250M Airbus Loan

Tue May 17, 2005 7:16 am

The investment proposal is actually a very SMART move from Airbus - both HP and US are at risk of liquidation within the next twelve months, and the dumping of close to 200 low-cycle A320-family aircraft on the market would absolutely kill any new orders till the end of the decade. The A350 move is low-risk - if the airline isn't around, the manufacturer will likely find someone to take them (warts and all), even if on sweetheart terms.
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