quickmover
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Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 4:23 am

Whatever works. How long can they keep doing this?

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050516/dcm029.html?.v=10
 
quickmover
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 4:27 am

That's $150 IAD-LAX or IAD-LAS round trip. I'm having a hard time finding DEN-MCI for less than $300 and that's only 540 miles, not 2300 miles for half the money.
 
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posti
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 4:41 am

FYI I've payed $19 each way on IND - IAD on DH in the past. The CRJ was half full, I have no idea how they make any $ but I like the fares.
LGW via RAC, LAF, & SEA
 
quickmover
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 4:50 am

I wish they flew out to DEN. I'd try them for that kind of money, but not too far into the future.
 
commavia
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
How long can they keep doing this?

Not very much longer.

Quoting Posti (Reply 2):
FYI I've payed $19 each way on IND - IAD on DH in the past. The CRJ was half full, I have no idea how they make any $ but I like the fares.

They aren't making money, they are losing it -- lots of it! They are just desperate for cash to keep their operations going but they are losing so much and drawing down so much debt that this equation (low fares, and still low load factors) won't be able to work too much longer.
 
toltommy
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 4:51 am

I needed to fly to HPN this week, looked flying em out of DTW. $370 for a same day round trip. NK and NW are asking $250, DTW-LGA. I'm flying Spirit since Spirit Plus was only $17 more each way. Sorry FlyI, maybe if you were competitive on an everyday price, you wouldn't have to give seats away!
 
zrb2
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 4:53 am

I've flown FLYI a few times and found them to be very good and reliable....and about 75% loads.

That's $150 IAD-LAX or IAD-LAS round trip. I'm having a hard time finding DEN-MCI for less than $300 and that's only 540 miles, not 2300 miles for half the money.

You want to talk about inequity? How about a roundtrip PHL-BUF nonstop this summer. The 278 miles will cost anywhere between $495 - $582 on US. For $308 you can get nonstop r/t BUF-PIT (186 miles). What a bargain!
 
dutchjet
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 4:55 am

And I-Air stated that its yeilds and financial performance would improve over the summer season due to higher demand and the introduction of the A319s.

These fares do have limited availability, but these very low prices are going to have a big impact on I-Air's finances....many do not think that I-Air will make it through the end of the year. I hope the analysts are wrong, but this type of wholesale fare sale is not a great sign.
 
quickmover
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 5:01 am

When an airline says limited availability, how many seats are they talking about? Would it be as much as half the seats?

I just can't see many bookings outside of these special deals. If the price and schedule are the same, most people go with a major. I'm not a fan of that because the little guy is often the reason for the sale fare on the major, but that's reality. However, I can't see anyone matching these almost give away fares.
 
ouboy79
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 5:10 am

Keep it up...and then we'll see more of this...  Smile



Shot this on the ramp of OKC last week - sorry for the poor quality, had to take a quick shot from SW 59th St.

Link to the photo itself: http://flytoledo.com/gallery2/main.p..._view=core:ShowItem&g2_itemId=3064
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 5:45 am

there are also 6 DH CRJ's sitting in Tucson. I just saw them there this morning. The tails had the "I" removed inside the white circle.

so that is 12 of these CRJ's parked plus the ones they sold.

I better use my free ticket on them very soon!
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 6:51 am

Then only thing that's unbelievable is how they are still in business. I guess they must be doing something right, because they should have run out of money by now.
 
ouboy79
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 8:02 am

Quoting 1millionflyer (Reply 10):
there are also 6 DH CRJ's sitting in Tucson. I just saw them there this morning. The tails had the "I" removed inside the white circle.

so that is 12 of these CRJ's parked plus the ones they sold.

There are actually 7 in OKC. It is hidden behind the 3rd and 4th tail if you look closely (count directly across).
 
galapagapop
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 8:07 am

Is it possible those are the ones returned in Feb?
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 8:10 am

When will we be saying "goodbye" to DH??

Thanks


Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 8:22 am

What's that Lauda 737 doin' in OKC? Lease?
 
havaloc
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 8:30 am

They need to adopt a WN pricing model. DH is either way too low, or way too high. There is never any fares in the middle.

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 5):
Sorry FlyI, maybe if you were competitive on an everyday price, you wouldn't have to give seats away!


[Edited 2005-05-17 22:27:22]
DC-9
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 9:13 am

Like him or hate him, Mike Boyd has some related comments in this week's "Hot Flash" at:

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm

Check out: "Survivor: RJ"
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
iadguy73
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 10:12 am

Why is everyone wish DH to fail? Ok so they are not doing so great right now, but they are not the only one in bad shape. Besides United has been in Ch 11 for 30 agonizing months with no end in sight. I'm tired of propping up ailing airlines with my tax dollars.
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 11:14 am

"So far, the big winner seems to be Sherwin-Williams."
This refering to the Regionals shifting operations from carrier to carrier from the Mike Boyd "Survivor RJ" link above. Quite funny and realistic approach to the situation!
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
Reggaebird
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 1:27 pm

The "amazing fare sale" is a classic sign of an airline in its final death-throws. I remember the same thing happening at Eastern Airlines, Pan American World Airways, Braniff and so many others. If history repeats itself, Independence Air is not long for this world. I give it one or two months at the most. I feel badly for the staff who went for the ride on this now-sad experiment in growing from a regional to a major.

Reggaebird
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 1:49 pm

DH failing...just in time to help UA for the summer at IAD.

Keep lowerin' them fares, boys...Glenn and Jake will take time out to attend your funeral.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 2:43 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):

They aren't making money, they are losing it -- lots of it! They are just desperate for cash to keep their operations going but they are losing so much and drawing down so much debt that this equation (low fares, and still low load factors) won't be able to work too much longer.

Well said. Enthusiast or not, one must accept that an airline is a business that must be run as a business.

Quoting Havaloc (Reply 16):
They need to adopt a WN pricing model. DH is either way too low, or way to high. There is never any fares in the middle.

Interesting. While I have no facts to back you up, it does seem like DH fire sales or charges more than the market will bear. I have liked the idea of this plucky little airline since day 1. But... The market is brutal. Is their enough demand anywhere to accept their CRJ's? Does anyone know what the resale market for CRJ's is right now?

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 19):
"So far, the big winner seems to be Sherwin-Williams."

 rotfl  Good one!

While I don't want any one airline to fail, I do wish those that lack a viable business case to get out of the game to make room for those that are managed half decently. Yes, I know people will loose jobs, but businesses should be run with decent return on assets and decent income vs. revenue (~15% in such a mature industry).

I'm sticking with my prediction that DH has 60 days. Oh... that would be about 53 left...

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
northwestair
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 3:14 pm

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 12):
There are actually 7 in OKC. It is hidden behind the 3rd and 4th tail if you look closely (count directly across).

I think there are 8 DH CRJ'S in OKC, cause another one arrived today 16May
I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
 
DOC
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 8:18 pm

They won't last too long, look what happenned at Jetsgo in Canada
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 8:29 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 21):
DH failing...just in time to help UA for the summer at IAD

Actually, I don't know how UA can absorb the passengers. Their flights and those of Express are full, full, full out of Dulles. Of course, without Independence, UA might actually be able to charge a reasonable airfare to cover its costs.....something Independence Air should have been doing.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
IFly4UAL
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 9:11 pm

Quoting DOC (Reply 24):
They won't last too long, look what happenned at Jetsgo in Canada



Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
Not very much longer.

Some of you would have had Independence out of the game a month after they started, but yet here they are, almost a year later, still airborne. Until I see a press release stating "Independence Air Ceases All Operations" I will keep my faith in them and hope they prove all the nay-sayers wrong.
BGR--Vacation Spot for All the Flying Crazies
 
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BNE
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 9:52 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 17):
Like him or hate him, Mike Boyd has some related comments in this week's "Hot Flash" at:

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm

Check out: "Survivor: RJ"

I thought it was hilarious, though I thought that Episode 1 should have been United Bankruptcy and Independence Air going it alone. In the past Air Wisconsin did some flying for Airtran so the CRJ200 are going to have a few repaints. I can't believe airlines are still ordering the things.

I thought that Independence Air had a lousy business plan from the beginning but what were they to do.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
flightopsguy
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 10:04 pm

Any comments on FlyI's 10-Q statement just filed? I can't quite figure out their cash position from the statement, other then their resources are substantially lower than December 2004.
A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
 
Lindy
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Tue May 17, 2005 11:01 pm

We had a discussion between ourselves (group of aviaton nuts from DC area).
We think that Indy wanted to loose those CRJs in favor of 319s. They didn't want to alarm United that they are becoming head to head competitor on flights to Florida and the West coast. It seems that our thoughts are coming to reality.

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Wed May 18, 2005 4:46 am

Quoting BNE (Reply 27):
I can't believe airlines are still ordering the things.

Read the Boyd report and I have to say I agree that there is going to be quite a dance to place RJ's when this is done.

Quoting Lindy (Reply 29):
We think that Indy wanted to loose those CRJs in favor of 319s. They didn't want to alarm United that they are becoming head to head competitor on flights to Florida and the West coast. It seems that our thoughts are coming to reality.

Yes, but until they can find buyers or lessors who will "take back" CRJ's, Indy is stuck. Also, Indy needs to do something about yields and factors before going to larger aircraft... Its not always expenses that are the profit problem.

My bet on Indy hasn't changed, 52 operating days is my estimate for them. Or put another way, the bank gets the remaining 58 CRJ's on July 4th.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
ouboy79
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RE: Independence Air/ Unbelievable Fare Sale

Wed May 18, 2005 1:42 pm

Quoting Northwestair (Reply 23):
I think there are 8 DH CRJ'S in OKC, cause another one arrived today 16May

That would make 8 then.

Not sure on the Laudia 733...we get a lot of interesting birds in OKC all the time. Usually heading to the AAR facility for mx or paint.