PSU.DTW.SCE
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US To Drop Mesa

Wed May 18, 2005 7:23 pm

This is pretty much what we've already known, but now its being said by the man himself.

http://www.timesonline.com/site/news...=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478569&rfi=6

US to end agreement with Mesa, and to pick up Air Wisconsin instead.
Mesa aircraft will be reallocated to additional flying at United and for the new Delta contract.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Wed May 18, 2005 11:32 pm

"Though passengers might not notice, alliances being forged, renewed and broken in the airline industry will change which regional operator is flying for major airlines."

Passengers most definitely will notice. US Airways Express flights will finally be on time!
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
ouboy79
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 12:55 am

Granted Johnny O gets back in to the US gig through HP. I think it is safe to assume the HP agreement was cheaper than the US one, unless someone has the numbers to say otherwise.  Smile
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 6:17 am

Regional airlines are sleeping around like Paris Hilton, I hope they have protection.

[Edited 2005-05-18 23:18:01]
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
Piedmontbrat
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 6:30 am

Finally, someone at US Airways woke up and smelled the coffee! Mesa has been one of US's biggest problems for the past three years. Their flights haven't been on time or they cancel all together and their service, when operating, is lousy at best.

The sad part about it is that now Delta is going to have to go through the same trauma that US Airways did with Mesa.

Quick...could someone at US Airways give Delta a phone call and let them know what's about to happen????
 
skymileman
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 6:31 am

It's about time US dropped Mesa. I fly Mesa pretty frequently and they're the shoddiest carrier I've ever seen. I can't even name the last time I've been on one of their planes that departed on time.
 
MAH4546
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 6:40 am

I am curious to find out what will happen to the Mesa flights out of MCI, which were US Airways codeshares.

They are EAS, so they are not going anywhere, but I wonder if DL or UA will pick up the code, or if Mesa will be opearting them on their own.
a.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 6:47 am

If they are B1900 flight, they should remain US flights..
Aiming High and going far..
 
GroundStop
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 6:50 am

Aren't the MCI flights operated by Air Midwest, which is a seperate entity owned by Mesa? Air Midwest was flying for USAirways Express before Mesa RJ's were.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 6:51 am

ok. so all mesa flights will be repaced by wisky? what about piedmont how are they doing for us?
 
Piedmontbrat
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 7:05 am

IMUO, they should bring back the Piedmont name to the side of the planes along with a little of the old "can do" spirit that made Piedmont a great carrier up until the Piedmont/US Air merger in the mid 80's.

Of course, I'm just a little prejudiced to Piedmont...first flight on them and all. They did know how to fly and kick butt back in those days though!


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ORDZW
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 10:30 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 1):
Passengers most definitely will notice. US Airways Express flights will finally be on time!

Thanks buddy, you just added one more person to your "Respected by:" list!

It's nice to see that someone has noticed the job we've been doing!
9E, AA, AQ, AX, BA, CO, CP, DH, DL, EV, F9, FL, HA, HP, KL, NK, NW, OH, OO, QX, RP, RW, S5, TW, UA, US, WN, YV, ZK, ZW
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 11:10 am

i guess you could say that... but the air wiisconsin flight out of crw is ususally late... but i gues its an exception because its going to ord. the plane is always boarded and ready to go though Big grin even goes and sits on the taxiway at the end of the runway throughout the delay.

anyways.... do you think they'll replace the mesa scheduel exactly, at least in the 50 seat markets?
 
SegmentKing
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 11:27 am

I've flown quite a few USAirways Exp/Mesa flights and they were ok.... nothing out of the ordinary. Maybe the ERJs are just a bit more delay prone?

-n
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SHUPirate1
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 12:30 pm

Quoting ORDZW (Reply 11):
Thanks buddy, you just added one more person to your "Respected by:" list!

You're welcome. It's amazing how Mesa ends up being 2005 Regional Airline of the Year with their slipshod operation, when there are other regional carriers (Air Wisconsin and Chautauqua come to mind) who are absolutely outstanding. Unfortunately, so much has gone the way of the bean counters in Fort Worth, Elk Grove, Atlanta, Eagan, Houston, and Arlington that those airlines don't realize (well, the ones in Arlington finally are, as evidenced by the title of this thread) that with the amount of money they are saving by having consistently-late Mesa running routes instead of usually-on-time, always-pleasant Chautauqua, it is costing them that much money in rebooking passengers (particularly if flights are full, and a little-known provision in US' CoC is that if a flight goes out full and passengers misconnect, those misconnected passengers are treated as involuntarily-denied-boarding), as well as meal and hotel vouchers for their (be it USX-US connections, or USX-USX connections) passengers...BTW, and somebody else would know this, if a legacy has to spend a hotel room because a regional affiliate has a misconnect because of maintenence, do the regional carriers have to reimburse that legacy?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
commavia
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 12:33 pm

This RJ orgy among the legacy carriers (sans AA and CO) with regional operators like Mesa, Chautaqua and Air Wisconsin is such a mess!

An excellent analysis of the situation in Michael Boyd's Aviation Hot Flashthis week.
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 1:30 pm

boyd is a idiot........and good luck to usair....zw crews have a tendency to have no concept of time(that great idea to not equip the a/c with accars)to make them more accountable....lets see what tune your singing a yr from now....im sure it will be to some extent what is being said today about mesa....
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
apodino
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 1:39 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 16):
boyd is a idiot........and good luck to usair....zw crews have a tendency to have no concept of time(that great idea to not equip the a/c with accars)to make them more accountable....lets see what tune your singing a yr from now....im sure it will be to some extent what is being said today about mesa....

Thats not true. We are in the process of retrofitting our RJ's with ACARS, and the responses have been positive from both the crews and dispatchers alike. I would say that a little more than half of the airplanes have been retrofitted. The 146's will not be fitted, as they will be retired by the end of next winter, in fact ZW is already in the process of closing down the ATW crew base and reallocating a bunch of 146 pilots to the CRJ's, which should be very interesting.

And according to statistics and letters that United has sent us, we were number 1 in on time of all the UAX carriers last month, on time more often than even United themselves.
 
GroundStop
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 1:46 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 16):
zw crews have a tendency to have no concept of time(that great idea to not equip the a/c with accars)to make them more accountable

First of all, it's ACARS. You might want to know how to at least spell what you are speaking of if you intend on making a point that people might consider worthwhile. Second, ZW is in the process of having its entire fleet fitted with ACARS now, a process which I believe is more than half way complete. And third, having worked Mesa flights while at USAirways and Air Wisconsin flights while at AirTran...there is absolutely no comparison. Talk about a concept of time? Mesa crews continually showed late for our CRJ originator to CLT, the dispatch was rarely ready at departure time, and the flight attendants all seem to feel that starting the boarding process five minutes prior to departure is standard. ZW crews that I encountered in ATL were always professional, friendly, and very understanding of issues which may have caused them delay...i.e. our gate space problems. In any event...hope you enjoy your experience with M(aking) E(veryone) S(tranded) A(lways). USAirways landed a far superior product.

JP
 
monkey
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 2:03 pm

if mesa does stop flying for US. What a/c will be used on the now be1900 runs into smaller cities like pkb or ckb?

john
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 2:10 pm

apodino&groundstop,
just because you have acars, doesnt mean that zw and ua have a common link when it comes to unimatic,apollo.....how many times have you gotten calls from zw OR mesa for that matter and were given times(out,off)and the plane IS still sitting at the gate???ALOT....you wanna be the cheerleaders for zw then fine...i call it like i see it...im no means a mesa fan.ual should have learned the first time but money talks....you think ord is congested???ord is like a walk in the park to compared to what you guys are going to go thru on the east coast....good luck
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 2:53 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 16):
boyd is a idiot........

A little crazy sometimes, his comments can be quite entertaining if not humorus. I do agree with him that the RJ glory days are hitting the downward spiral with the current over-saturation of regional aircraft, many of their high frequency routes will be dropped for one-way trips to the desert.

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 2):
Granted Johnny O gets back in to the US gig through HP.

Unless Mesa does something soon, its flying for HP may have a chance of being replaced altogether by Air Wisconsin and Republic for the sake of their financing offers with the combined US Air, should it happen. Kudos to Air Wisconsin management as they certainly thought outside-the-box to create the opportunity with US; it now offers even more should the merger go through. The situation could have been ugly otherwise.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 3:05 pm

UAL rejects ZWs bid as it is more than MESA&GO JETS....US says to mesa that they are not renewing anything with them as they are going with ZW.....was the deal breaker the 125milllion????im sure it was...but i wonder what US is paying ZW to fly those routes that the king of low cost(mesa) was willing to charge????i find it hard to believe that usair in BK was able to sign ZW and their high costs lower than ORNSTEIN and his minions were able to do it...obviously ua was blind sided with "east shores"biz move and in order to save some type of face said ok....let usair pay those rates...we will take mesa and the lower rates....wonder how long usair will keep ZW?????even with 125 bones invested in them.....
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
apodino
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 3:46 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 20):
apodino&groundstop,
just because you have acars, doesnt mean that zw and ua have a common link when it comes to unimatic,apollo.....how many times have you gotten calls from zw OR mesa for that matter and were given times(out,off)and the plane SA) and Eagle Air/Arnaflug (Iceland)">IS still sitting at the gate???ALOT....you wanna be the cheerleaders for zw then fine...i call it like i see it...im no means a mesa fan.ual should have learned the first time but money talks....you think ord is congested???ord is like a walk in the park to compared to what you guys are going to go thru on the east coast....good luck

I don't understand what you are trying to say. I work in dispatch and the way it works is simple. If a plane has acars, the times are automatically sent to the stations and dispatch. If it doesn't, the plane radios in to ops who then puts the times into apollo or unimatic. Usually they give out times right as they are being pushed back from the gate, or are about to taxi out. They give off times right before taking the active, because they can't call off times until well after takeoff as the crew has other issues to worry about at that time.

As far as them calling in times to ops, you are partially correct. But since the station ops does the load planning for SA)">ZW flights, they tend to get their numbers in the same call, as well for weight and balance. We like to get this done right before leaving the gate, but sometimes we have to do it on the taxi out. And I can't tell you how many times I have gotten calls from crews saying that the ops freq at ord is congested.

And in the planes that have acars, the on time performance has been exactly the same as before acars if not better. I can't speak for mesa, but totally agree with you about Mesa based on everything I have heard.

As far as ORD being a cakewalk compared to the east coast lets see. Anytime the weather is bad in ORD they put in a delay program, and assign slots, which United seems to trade into and make all the express slots worse. PHI may be a problem in real bad weather, but not as often as ORD. Ditto at LGA. CLT and PIT are rarely delay proned. I have never seen a delay program at DCA before. And also remember that much of our current flying is in the east already. We won't be in IAD much, but Potomac Approach is notorious for long vectors and holds into IAD, plus they have what seems like a daily ground stop there.

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 21):
Unless Mesa does something soon, its flying for SA)">HP may have a chance of being replaced altogether by Air Wisconsin and Republic for the sake of their financing offers with the combined US Air, should it happen. Kudos to Air Wisconsin management as they certainly thought outside-the-box to create the opportunity with US; it now offers even more should the merger go through. The situation could have been ugly otherwise.

The rumor on the street is now Wexford Capital, which is the one providing the money from the republic side of the deal, may not be involved in this after all. Apparently there are lots of sources willing to pony money into a merger, including Airbus in exchange for A350 orders, and Air Canada, which is better for the company than the Republic deal, so Wall Street seems to think this may be off the Table. SA)">ZW is definitely happening, and the deal is for ten years, so we will be an express carrier until 2015 at least.

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 22):
UAL rejects ZWs bid as it is more than MESA&GO JETS....US says to mesa that they are not renewing anything with them as they are going with SA)">ZW.....was the deal breaker the 125milllion????im sure it was...but i wonder what US is paying SA)">ZW to fly those routes that the king of low cost(mesa) was willing to charge????i find it hard to believe that usair in BK was able to sign SA)">ZW and their high costs lower than ORNSTEIN and his minions were able to do it...obviously ua was blind sided with "east shores"biz move and in order to save some type of face said ok....let usair pay those rates...we will take mesa and the lower rates....wonder how long usair will keep SA)">ZW?????even with 125 bones invested in them.....

The bottom line is that United wanted SA)">ZW to cut their costs by nearly 40 percent to retain our business, which would have put Air Wisconsin out of business entirely. United thought they could do that, but as you said, were caught off guard with the USAirways deal, which they did knowing that an Indepedence Air type deal would have been suicidal. As long as Mesa continues with their current way of doing business, (which includes having a new hire class of dispatchers in three weeks, and starting the interviewing process in that time, then giving you a week to relocate on your own expense without any help before class when you can't even quit your current job), they will continue to be the Kia of regional airlines. And you might take Mesa and Gojets, but Gojets doesn't have their operating certificate yet, and Mesa just sucks. And USAir can't dump us for ten years per the agreement we signed with them. Good luck to United, I would like to see the company survive with different leadership. It will be tough to win loyalty though based on the mainline employee morale and some of the express partners.
 
VEEREF
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 9:46 pm

Does Air Willy still operate the 146? Might be interesting to see one in US colors.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
SegmentKing
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 10:59 pm

The REAL reason behind the seperation between AWAC and United is due to the fact that if UAL keeps AWAC, its stuck with the BAe 146s and their crews, which make more than most United pilots. The 146s are now as expensive as a 737 to fly on a route for United.... and United just can't tell AWAC to get rid of them.

AWAC is already one of the *cheapest* CRJ flyers for United.... the biggest part of the deal is that AWAC saw their growth slowing and Geoff's crystal ball pointed him to United.

You "mainline" guys can bitch about AWAC all you want, but they are a VERY good company that has a few bad apples, just as United does. Heck, I haven't paid United a dime for a couple of years when I stopped flying them ALL together due to a very VERY bad experience at the counter, yet I didn't come on here saying how "aweful" united is, how "bad" all of their counter & gate agents are for refusing to ticket a mileage run on a voucher, etc etc... but some of you are making the SAME-level accusations about AWAC because of a few "bad" crews....
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PSU.DTW.SCE
Topic Author
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Thu May 19, 2005 11:30 pm

The 146's are not going over the US Express operation. When finished with United Express, they will be retired.

The only reason US is parting with Mesa is because of the financial backing ZW added. Despite Mesa's poor operational performance, I highly doubt that was the deciding factor. US needed exit financing and ZW stepped up.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Fri May 20, 2005 12:22 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 26):
Despite Mesa's poor operational performance, I highly doubt that was the deciding factor. US needed exit financing and ZW stepped up.

PSU.DTW.SCE-Very true, however, it does need to be said that US Airways' Express operation will be better for Mesa no longer being in the system. Just from my own personal experience, I have had one near-misconnect (the jetway was already pulled and the brakes up, and the ground people put everything back in place just so I could get on the plane) and one actual misconnect (that actual misconnect was this past Monday) in the past six weeks, both because of maintenence, in fact, in the case that I near-misconnected, it was because they didn't fuel the airplane properly (I do not know the exact reason on Monday, if anybody could find out, it was US2797 IND-CLT, the inbound was supposed to be US2703 PHL-IND, but they ferried an aircraft in instead).

Also, I will ask again, if I had actually misconnected that time last month, US Airways would have been on the hook to put me in a hotel for the night, on their wallet. Does Mesa have to reimburse US Airways for that hotel and my other expenses, or is US Airways left on the hook?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
saab2000
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Fri May 20, 2005 12:45 am

I have nothing against United at all. I have had nearly universally good experiences with them during the 13 months I have been with AWAC. But their management is making a mistake in getting rid of AWAC. In fact, it is not really United getting rid of AWAC, but rather AWAC leaving United.

I don't think either party really wanted to leave, but too many people at ZW remember the shafting which occurred about 12 years ago and decided that "fool me once, ......" was enough.

I hope United survives and I hope that there will be a new partnership deal in the future with them. But for now ZW had to do what it had to do.

I worked at a European major where the powers that be blamed the "regional" part of the company for all the problems. I see a bit of the same attitude here from some United employees. Most of them have been very positive and professional and are sorry to see us go, but not all.

But we are not part of your problem, United. We were part of the solution. Getting rid of us and getting the other ones on board will not save United Airlines.

The new partnership with US Airways and the deal going on there with them and ZW and America West will be very interesting to be sure.
smrtrthnu
 
ouboy79
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RE: US To Drop Mesa

Fri May 20, 2005 12:58 am

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 22):
UAL rejects ZWs bid as it is more than MESA&GO JETS....US says to mesa that they are not renewing anything with them as they are going with ZW.....was the deal breaker the 125milllion????im sure it was...but i wonder what US is paying ZW to fly those routes that the king of low cost(mesa) was willing to charge????i find it hard to believe that usair in BK was able to sign ZW and their high costs lower than ORNSTEIN and his minions were able to do it...obviously ua was blind sided with "east shores"biz move and in order to save some type of face said ok....let usair pay those rates...we will take mesa and the lower rates....wonder how long usair will keep ZW?????even with 125 bones invested in them.....

I believe it was reported that the Air Wisky contract was lower than Mesa's current US contract.
 
saab2000
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:19 pm

RE: US To Drop Mesa

Fri May 20, 2005 1:01 am

If ZW invests 125 million into US Airways and will have 3 seats on the board I guess it is pretty clear why they will be flying as US Airways Express.....

It would be VERY interesting to see what really goes on behind the scenes with ZW. They are very secretive.
smrtrthnu
 
rwdriver
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:31 pm

RE: US To Drop Mesa

Fri May 20, 2005 1:23 am

I don't get it either. As a platinum on HP... I avoide Mesa (HPExpress) whenever I can. The reliability is unbelievably low and while the people are fairly pleasant - I would estimate my chances of taking a mechanical on these guys is about 30%. Unbelievable.

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