nwafflyer
Posts: 888
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Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 9:56 am

Just flew an ASA ATR 72 from MGM to ATL -- one of the ugliest aircraft every made -- do any other US airlines use these? I've flown them outside the US (most notably AeroMar) but did not realize a major US carrier flew these
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 10:00 am

American Eagle is the only major one next to ASA.

[Edited 2005-05-19 03:19:39]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
positiverate
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 10:02 am

Quoting Nwafflyer (Thread starter):
did not realize a major US carrier flew these

To clarify, ASA is a subsidiary of Delta. Ergo, a "major U.S. airline" does not fly them. American Eagle was/is a huge ATR-42/72 operator, as was Pan Am Express back in the day.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 10:05 am

ASA
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American Eagle
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Mountain Air Cargo
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Trans States
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Northern Air Cargo
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[Edited 2005-05-19 03:23:33]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
planemannyc
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 10:34 am

And don't forget Continental Express


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Now they sit in the desert, being replaced by ERJs.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc
 
commavia
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 10:49 am

Generally speaking, American Eagle (or, more specifically, its subsidiary Executive Airlines) is pleased with the performance and customer experience associated with the Super ATR, but I don't know about ASA's view of the plane. But, I do not from personal experience that if you think the Super ATR is bad, the ATR-42 is hell with a propeller. That plane was truly horrendous, from customer experience to efficiency to reliability, which is part of the reason why Eagle recently offloaded all of them to FedEx. They will probably make great freight haulers.
 
hawaiian717
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 10:51 am

FlyHawaii Airlines, which is planning inter-island service in Hawaii, will use the ATR72.

The FedEx, Trans States, Northern Air Cargo, and Continental Connection ATR's shown are all ATR42s, the smaller version.

David / ABQ
 
EMBQA
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 10:54 am

And don't forget Continental Express

They have not flown for Continental Express for several years.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
quickmover
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 11:51 am

They may be ugly but they are a workhorse. I've flown on them alot between STL-SFG, ATL-TRI, and smaller destinations. It seems like if the distance is under 200 miles, a jet really doesn't save that much time. They taxi and push back just as fast as a jet.
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 10:34 pm

How many ATR-72's does ASA still have? I personally don't see them as being ugly......but, to each his own, I guess.  Cool
 
quickmover
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 10:52 pm

The interiors seem fairly roomy for a prop. Much better than those j31s.
 
NASBWI
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 pm

I'm more of a fan of turboprops myself, so I'm probably a bit biased here, but I like flying in the ATRs - and comfort-wise, I haven't noticed a significant difference between the -72-210s and -42-300s that Eagle operated (the -210s are now being replaced with -500s). The ATR72-500s, though, have 6-bladed props and have much less vibration - a plus for those who hate turboprops, but a slight disappointment for us propellorheads that love the heavier vibration of the PW120 series with 4 blades. As per ASA, weren't there rumours going around about them replacing their ATRs with Q400s?
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
BNAflyer78
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 10:59 pm

Just spoke with a friend of mine who flies for ASA. At last count, there were 16 ATR's in the fleet. Can anyone else confirm?
Long live the Widget!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 11:19 pm

Not sure abou the number of AT7s in ASA's fleet as of today, but they used to have a total of 19, of which 7 were leased and which will now be retired, as leases on them expire.
 
quickmover
Posts: 2134
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 11:28 pm

There used to be several ATRs at ATL. Are these being replaced with crjs? There seems to be an abundance of those on the market right now. I still think they could carry as many or more passengers with an ATR72 and do it alot cheaper to those smaller eastern citys around ATL (TRI, FLO, etc).
 
Pope
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Thu May 19, 2005 11:53 pm

About 75% of the ASA flights into Gainesville, FL are on ATR-72s. I've probably flown on them over 100 times in the last 5 years.

Though I'd always prefer taking the CRJ, the ATR's don't really bother me that much once that I purchased the Bose Noise reducing headsets. The hour and a quarter flight from GNV to ATL is so much more pleasant with the noise reducing headsets that it's beyond description.

My biggest pet peeve about the ATR is operational - ASA crews don't usually operate the AC while the plane is at the stand (even though the number 2 engine has a prop brake that allows them to do this). This results in a cabin that seems like it is 100 degree with no air circulation when you get on a flight in Atlanta during the summer.

The FA's on ASA tell me that the -72's are going to be replaced with CRJ700's as the 700's come into ASA's fleet.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 12:15 am

You know what, if some had not asked, I could tell you how many ATR's ASA has. But because someone asked, I am having a continuous brain fart. I do know that the current fleet did run under 20 planes. They were given 500 and 600 ship numbers. The 500's(I think 7) were to be retired and the 600's would keep on flying.

As far as them being retired as the CR7's come online, I would doubt it. One reason is that there is no way for a CR7 to replace an ATR, and its just as hard for a CRJ to. Most of the ATR routes for ASA are towns like ABY, DHN, TRI, GNV, etc. Most of them(except GNV) are within decent distance from ATL to where a CRJ would not get there any faster. A good friend of mine is a dispatcher for ASA and tells me that the ATR costs less to operate than a CRJ, which makes sense. So they cost less, carry more, and are a true workhorse. So I would not see them being retired anytime soon until you start seeing the age really starting to show.

And how can you NOT love the ATR? I think its a cute little bird. Granted, they have their problems. The baggage bin up front could hold more, given a bigger net, the tail section is a pain to load bags in by squeezing past the galley(I've heard), and its not the MOST comfortable plane ever built-with the typical shapeless, leather seats with minimal room to recline. Its not something I want to take on a cross country flight. But on a flight that will take roughly a half hour-1 hr, its not a bad ride.

Oh, I forgot one more of its little problems, ICE is a four letter word to ATR pilots.


Otto
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
Pope
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 12:33 am

The switch in GNV is driven by capacity. Flyers certainly prefer the CRJ200's but the demand is such that ASA couldn't meet it with just CRJ flights. I'd estimate that the ATL - GNV load factors regularly exceed 85% with several flights a day on the ATR and two on the CRJ200's. Frequently the flights are oversold. (Note to college age travellers - if you're schedule for the Friday afternoon flights from ATL to GNV [they're frequently oversold], don't jump at the first $200 Delta Dollar offer the rep makes - a business traveller who's been away from home for the entire week is not going to delay his return until 10:30 PM or midnight for $200. Sit tight and the offer will go up to about $400).

The -700's will give ASA roughly the same capacity as the ATR's and cut the enroute time by about 25 minutes.

I would imagine that the yields on the route are also very good given what I've had to pay.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 12:54 am

I don't think the ATR is one of the ugliest props ever built - the Fokker 50 or the Dash 8 certainly does not look much better, not to speak about the Jetstream 41 or the BAe ATP.

On short sectors I prefer the ATR42 compared to those claustrophobic CRJs and ERJs. At least in Europe airlines don't jump on this "all-jet" bandwaggon which is just insane on a lot of the shorter sectors.
 
bond007
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 1:05 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 5):
which is part of the reason why Eagle recently offloaded all of them to FedEx.

Eagle is still flying tons of 'em all across the Caribbean and Florida - couple of hundred flights a day!

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
quickmover
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 1:09 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but many of those Eagle ATRs in the Caribbean were once based at ORD. The Indiana crash back in the 90's was caused by ice and after that they moved the ATRs to warmer bases (DFW, MIA, SJU).
 
bond007
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 1:13 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 20):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but many of those Eagle ATRs in the Caribbean were once based at ORD. The Indiana crash back in the 90's was caused by ice and after that they moved the ATRs to warmer bases (DFW, MIA, SJU).

You are 100% correct  Smile
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 888
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 2:11 am

Those damn things look like death traps and seem to be very poorly designed IMHO. My two cents from working them at DAB on occasion.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 2:45 am

He was refering to Eagle getting rid of the -42's which were problematic. The -72's still fly out of MIA and SJU. Yes, after the crash of the Eagle ATR 42 in icing conditions in Indiana, that winter the ATR fleet was moved south from ORD and replaced with Saab's. That was only short-lived and the ATR's later returned to ORD the following Spring.
 
NASBWI
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 3:46 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 21):
You are 100% correct

Almost  wink . One has to take into account that around that time (or immediately thereafter) Eagle started taking delivery of ERJs, which replaced the ATR on its midwestern routes, not to mention that the ATRs were much better suited for the higher cargo volume in the Caribbean. I think that whether the crash happened or not, the ATRs would've ultimately ended up in MIA/SJU.
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
EMBQA
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 3:54 am

....after the crash of the Eagle ATR 42 in icing conditions in Indiana

The crash in Roselawn,IN was an American Eagle ATR-72...not a ATR-42
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
RedDragon
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 4:11 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 5):
Generally speaking, American Eagle (or, more specifically, its subsidiary Executive Airlines) is pleased with the performance and customer experience associated with the Super ATR, but I don't know about ASA's view of the plane. But, I do not from personal experience that if you think the Super ATR is bad, the ATR-42 is hell with a propeller.

I assume that the Super part refers to the -500 series (aka -210A)?

Rich
 
Pope
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 4:23 am

Even ASA has had to cancel certain flights during unusually harsh winter days out of ATL because of the icing fears. I was once return to GNV on a flight connecting through Atlanta when it was snowing. There was ice all over the place.

I got to the D concourse gate took one look out the window and asked to be re-booked on the much later CRJ flight (almost 6 hours). The gate agent told me that the flight was still on time, but I assured her that it would be cancelled.

She fought me for a couple of minutes about the rebooking. Eventually she did it for me. It wasn't ten minutes later that the dispatcher cancelled the ATR flight.

Fortunately for me, I had gotten one of the last three seats on the later CRJ flight (the last CRJ flight of the day to GNV). The 60 or so other passengers spent the night in Atlanta.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
NASBWI
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 26):
I assume that the Super part refers to the -500 series (aka -210A)?

Not necessarily. I could be wrong, but I think AA Eagle was the only airline to add "super ATR" to the top of its (ATR 72) tails; it might've been more of a marketing gimmick, as they were on tails prior to them receiving -500s.
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 4:46 am

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 28):
Not necessarily. I could be wrong, but I think AA Eagle was the only airline to add "super ATR" to the top of its (ATR 72) tails; it might've been more of a marketing gimmick, as they were on tails prior to them receiving -500s.

Fair enough. It's not as if AA ever based any of their marketing type names in reality  Wink
 
Arrow
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 27):
Even ASA has had to cancel certain flights during unusually harsh winter days out of ATL because of the icing fears.

Was the icing vulnerability specific to the ATRs, or do the Dashes have a similar achilles heel? They do have very similar designs. I remember some kind of design change for the ATR to overcome it, but I don't recall ever hearing anything about the Dashes. Anyone know?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
commavia
Posts: 9651
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 5:09 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 27):
Even ASA has had to cancel certain flights during unusually harsh winter days out of ATL because of the icing fears.

Yep. This was one of the big reasons why Eagle pulled all ATRs out of ORD back in 1999 and made it an all-RJ hub. During incliment weather, be it extremely icy, snowy cold winters or hot, humid summers, the ATRs were constantly breaking down (or at least their heating and cooling systems were). The ATR-72s are much better suited to Caribbean operations, while the ATR-42s are just hopeless.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting Arrow (Reply 30):
Was the icing vulnerability specific to the ATRs

I know that the FAA and ATR conducted a special series of tests after the crash in IN. A tanker aircraft flew in front of an ATR spraying a water mixtured dyed yellow to see where ice accumulated. As a result of these tests AA decided to move the ATR's down South.

While every aircraft is subject to problems when flown through ice, I think the ATR had more problems than most designs.

If I remember, part of the problem had to do with the interaction of the autopilot when ice accumulated in that it threw the aircraft into a hard roll under certain ice induced conditions.

I'll see if I can find anything on the topic.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
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RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 5:58 am

Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
TokyoNarita
Posts: 556
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:30 am

RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 8:51 am

If anyone was wondering, as of May 9, 2004 ASA has

12 ATR-72s
33 CRJ700s...will be 34 tomorrow
99 CRJ200s

Not that many ATRs left.

TokyoNarita.
 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 9:57 am

Quoting Arrow (Reply 30):
Was the icing vulnerability specific to the ATRs, or do the Dashes have a similar achilles heel?

I have heard nothing about the Dash 8 having similar problems. Remember, the plane comes from Canada...

David / ABQ
 
ken4556
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:28 am

RE: Delta ATR 72

Fri May 20, 2005 10:28 am

For the record, ASA does not fly the ATR in Albany, GA (ABY)

All four roundtrips are on CRJ.
 
AV8AJET
Posts: 1091
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:10 am

RE: Delta ATR 72

Sat May 21, 2005 3:33 am

May 20, 2005: 10:27 a.m. DST
ASA on Friday took delivery of its newest CRJ700, ship N760EV. With this latest addition, the fleet is now comprised of 34 CRJ700s, 99 CRJ200s and 12 ATR-72s. The average age of the fleet is 4.3 years.
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"

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