keesje
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Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 6:25 pm

For anyone who wondered why Airbus was so quiet during the last few weeks.. Leahy is out of the Hospital now.




The company chief commercial officer had to watch from his bed, recovering from a burst appendix, as Northwest Airlines, Air Canada and Air India all placed big widebody orders with Boeing this month.

“By the end of last year we came out with an aircraft we thought was pretty good. Since December we have improved the aircraft by about three iterations,” he says.

He stresses the new nature of the A350, which he suggests has not been made clear the market, noting: “For $5.5 billion [development costs] I get more then a [A330] derivative.”

An awful lot of pilots will fly the A330 in the morning and the A350 in the afternoon. So although we will take as much of the A380 cockpit as we can without losing the common type-rating [with A330] we believe that is what the airlines want around the world.”

He is irritated by Boeing’s success in talking up 787 features which he claims are matched by the A350, and even by existing Airbus models.

Downplaying the significance of doing away with engine bleed air, he quotes a General Electric study saying there is no change in direct costs; he claims the existing A330 has cabin relative humidity within one percentage point of Boeing’s much-vaunted figures for the 787; and he says the A350 cabin altitude will is

“If I could do the A350 all over again I would have done more advertising earlier, and more public relations earlier, and would not have allowed all those [787] magazine covers to appear.”

Airbus is now coming out fighting and its latest comparison of the basic A350-900 against the 787-900 and 777-200ER, is as shown below – prompting Leahy to remark that: “By 2009 when these come out the 777-200ER is dead.”
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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mariner
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 6:32 pm

Very glad he's better - things have been a bit dull around here.  Smile

Or maybe, not dull - just predictable.

cheers

mariner
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nudelhirsch
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 6:36 pm

I am sure that most of the folks that ordered the 787 would have been willing to wait for him to be back if the 350 would have been a feasible deal for them. As it wasn't, they signed Boeing.

Nice for him that he is doing better, but Keesje, you are probably the only one besides Leahy who believes that his hospital time was a reason for losing the orders. Nonsense!
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 6:38 pm

I had no idea he'd been ill. Is it stretching credibility to note that Boeing signed up customers while he was out of action? Yes, I think it is. He isn't Superman.

(Is he...?)

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
“For $5.5 billion [development costs] I get more then a [A330] derivative.”

I don't like it when people employ the first person. It smacks of egocentricity. Airbus aren't doing it for 'him'; he works for the company just like anyone else.

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
He is irritated by Boeing’s success in talking up 787 features which he claims are matched by the A350, and even by existing Airbus models.

Well, I wish he'd come on A.Net and settle once and for all all these tedious "The 787 will obviously outperform the A350 in every respect" threads. If we all club together could we find the $25 to sign him up?

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
“If I could do the A350 all over again I would have done more advertising earlier, and more public relations earlier, and would not have allowed all those [787] magazine covers to appear.”

Uh?! How on earth would he have stopped magazines putting the 787 on their covers?! Much as I wish the A350 well, that almost sounds like censorship.

Does he really think he is omnipotent?
 
keesje
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 6:40 pm

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 2):
you are probably the only one besides Leahy who believes that his hospital time was a reason for losing the orders.

?! You are dreaming things up here.

I suggested he was the reason "Airbus was so quiet during the last few weeks"
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 6:41 pm

Yes he is back and promises big order announcements on the Paris Air Show. I am curious what will happen.

Axel
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 6:43 pm

Let's the battle start again, for our greatest joy and entertainment!
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 6:46 pm

Quoting AF-A319 (Reply 6):
Let's the battle start again, for our greatest joy and entertainment!

Yeah, and we love it!

Axel
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Glom
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 6:47 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Downplaying the significance of doing away with engine bleed air, he quotes a General Electric study saying there is no change in direct costs; he claims the existing A330 has cabin relative humidity within one percentage point of Boeing’s much-vaunted figures for the 787; and he says the A350 cabin altitude will is

In all the 787 debates, I've never heard this. Can someone other than a salesman confirm?
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:03 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
“If I could do the A350 all over again I would have done more advertising earlier, and more public relations earlier, and would not have allowed all those [787] magazine covers to appear.”

Who died and made Leahy God? Arrogance. Typical.

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Airbus is now coming out fighting and its latest comparison of the basic A350-900 against the 787-900 and 777-200ER, is as shown below – prompting Leahy to remark that: “By 2009 when these come out the 777-200ER is dead.”

 Yeah sure Talk it up, Leahy. I didn't miss aviation's biggest mouth.
 
Glom
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:05 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 9):
By 2009 when these come out the 777-200ER is dead.”

Well that's fine. The 772LR has already arrived to replace it.
 
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mariner
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:13 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 9):
Who died and made Leahy God? Arrogance. Typical.

Arrogance? Leahy? of course! He's from New York.

Typical New Yorker, I guess.

cheers

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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:14 pm

Quoting Glom (Reply 10):
Well that's fine. The 772LR has already arrived to replace it.

But it's hardly a straight swap. What about the airlines who'd be happy with a 772ER but don't want or need the capabilities of a (more expensive) 772LR?
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:16 pm

I'm not into stereotypes.

It's the man himself I dislike. It's one thing for him to try to outsell Boeing...that's his job. It's another to be a complete arse about it. I prefer someone who acts like a professional rather than a playground bully. Eventually, someone gets fed up and kicks the bully's ass.

I hope that this year, Boeing owns Leahy.
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:16 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
How on earth would he have stopped magazines putting the 787 on their covers?! Much as I wish the A350 well, that almost sounds like censorship.

Does he really think he is omnipotent?

Option 1 : Boeing automatically got all the media attention for the 787 because it is a miracle aircraft that will change the way the human kind travels & will set the benchmark on environmental & passenger friendliness for the coming decades.

Option 2 : Boeing set apart $ x0.000.000 mln, hired an expensive media firm, developed a impressive PR strategy to convince the public they wear the white hats & bought themsleves into all the elevant media, including a.net..

Pick your choice..

Airbus could have done the same, Leahy thinks he should have..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:19 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 12):
But it's hardly a straight swap. What about the airlines who'd be happy with a 772ER but don't want or need the capabilities of a (more expensive) 772LR?

There's no need to give away what's working good for the airlines. Just because Leahy said the 777-200ER will be dead doesn't mean it will be. Of course, maybe he should tell us the health of the A340-300 by then as well. Of course the A330 can compete well with the 787, that's why Airbus is launching the A350. Yup.
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Glom
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:20 pm

If the A350 could rack up 100+ orders, it could be devastating for the pride of the 787. Boeing's best effort and introducing revolutionary aircraft and it only mildly outperformed the A350. The flipside to this is that maybe the 747ADV won't flop before the A380.

The other way to look at it is that while Boeing has small orders from many customers, Airbus has large orders from few customers. Ethopian Air would have ordered 50 if they needed them and were capable, but they weren't. So in terms of pride, the 787 is defended by the fact that more people like it. It's just that the people who liked the A350 were the ones who placed big orders.

Of course, you all know what this means... Boeing is DOOMED!
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:24 pm

Option 1.  Wink

Though, Keesje, Boeing didn't exactly put it that way. Nice exaggeration, though.

The 787 is a significant leap forward though when it comes to Boeing's own product line. If compared only to B's products, the 787 is indeed revolutionary.

I don't know if Leahy is full of it or not when it comes to his claim of the 787's cabin humidity being within 1% of the existing, but when it comes to Boeing aircraft the 787 is going to be the most preferred, thus far, in terms of interior cabin comfort by passengers.


As far as I am concerned Airbus has been #1 for too long. It's nice to see boeing regaining focus. Now I only pray that they continue to outsell the A350, and give that smug used-car salesman that is Leahy something to cry about.
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:24 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 13):
I'm not into stereotypes.

Then what is the arrogance typical of?

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 9):
Who died and made Leahy God?

Because that, in itself, is a stereotyping. He doesn't claim to be God. He does claim to be damn good at what he does.

You don't like the style? That is entirely your prerogative. But he is right - he is damn good at what he does.

cheers

mariner
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:27 pm

Quoting Glom (Reply 16):
Boeing's best effort and introducing revolutionary aircraft and it only mildly outperformed the A350.

You don't think it's perhaps a tiny bit premature to be painting this scenario...? I'd say the 787 is still in the driving seat.
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:27 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 17):
I don't know if Leahy is full of it or not when it comes to his claim of the 787's cabin humidity being within 1% of the existing,

Yes, can we have some confirmation on that. Whatever happened to the idea of high humidity causing corrosion and nasty stuff growing in ducts?
 
greaser
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:29 pm

Quoting Glom (Reply 16):
If the A350 could rack up 100+ orders, it could be devastating for the pride of the 787. Boeing's best effort and introducing revolutionary aircraft and it only mildly outperformed the A350. The flipside to this is that maybe the 747ADV won't flop before the A380.

If Leahy's mouth didn't run too far again, then 100+ orders was something NO-ONE said won't happen. There will almost undoubtedly be many orders, like for the A340, for the A350. There's no that kind of 'pride' in the 787 as you put it. Fact is, all the usual suspects would buy the A350. Did you expect NW and AC to purchase the 787? Of course getting more customers is a larger benefit then say having one customer (uh-hem EK) sharing most of the risk in your project.You don't know whether the 787 'mildly' outperformed the A350 or not. Nobody does in A.net, really.
Now you're really flying
 
zoom1018
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:29 pm

Leahy is out of the hospital seems to be a reason for a quiet time of Airbus!
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:29 pm

If only Leahy and Boeings CEO become members on here, then things would get really interesting  Smile
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:30 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
Then what is the arrogance typical of?

Typical of HIMSELF. I've rarely seen him be anything but arrogant.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
Because that, in itself, is a stereotyping. He doesn't claim to be God. He does claim to be damn good at what he does.

It's the way the man acts. He may not claim to be God, but he acts as though he thinks of himself that way. He is arrogant. And it is irritating, and that's why I want to see him knocked on his ass.
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:31 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 17):
As far as I am concerned Airbus has been #1 for too long.

! Give Airbus a chance. After 30 years or more they claw their way to the top for 18 months and suddenly it's "too long"? Is there a natural order of things whereby Boeing are entitled to the No.1 position?

Quoting Greaser (Reply 15):
Quoting PM (Reply 12):
But it's hardly a straight swap. What about the airlines who'd be happy with a 772ER but don't want or need the capabilities of a (more expensive) 772LR?

There's no need to give away what's working good for the airlines. Just because Leahy said the 777-200ER will be dead doesn't mean it will be. Of course, maybe he should tell us the health of the A340-300 by then as well. Of course the A330 can compete well with the 787, that's why Airbus is launching the A350. Yup.

Um, am I missing something? I don't really see how your response addresses my point. Sorry.  Sad
 
Glom
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:32 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 19):
You don't think it's perhaps a tiny bit premature to be painting this scenario...?

That's what we do on this board, isn't it? Whenever a manufacturer gets a good order, we say the other one is going downhill.  Wink

If they get 100 orders between EK and QR, then they have 110 orders. The 787 currently has 255. While the 787 is still in the lead, with such big customers, in the future, the A350 is guaranteed many more. Imagine how many options they'll have.

Also, didn't Leahy say that these orders would be firm. Has the 787 passed 100 firm yet? It could actually take the lead.
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:33 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 24):
He is arrogant. And it is irritating, and that's why I want to see him knocked on his ass.

I understand that he is irritating to you.

He remains a great salesman.

cheres

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zoom1018
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:35 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 24):
It's the way the man acts. He may not claim to be God, but he acts as though he thinks of himself that way. He is arrogant. And it is irritating, and that's why I want to see him knocked on his ass.

Agree!
I still remember Airbus kept saying 2 engine aircraft blah blah blah and now they are building an ultra-long-haul twin engine plane... that is funny!!!

And if someone wants to say what about Boeing in regard of their comments on the A380?! Well, they just said there was not enough demand for the plane of that size!
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:37 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 25):
Give Airbus a chance. After 30 years or more they claw their way to the top for 18 months and suddenly it's "too long"? Is there a natural order of things whereby Boeing are entitled to the No.1 position?

I would, except the man who does much of the speaking for the company irritates me quite a lot. Maybe if he would shut that hole in his face once in a while, I wouldn't have a problem with Airbus' healthy competition with Boeing.

There was a time when I liked Airbus and Boeing near equally. And then I began reading Leahy's comments.
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:37 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 27):
He remains a great salesman.

Of that there can be no doubt. I suppose humility and good manners don't make great salesmen.  Sad
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:38 pm

PM, I was just adding in another point haha.... Smile
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:39 pm

Quoting Zoom1018 (Reply 28):
And if someone wants to say what about Boeing in regard of their comments on the A380?! Well, they just said there was not enough demand for the plane of that size!

Not to mention actually congratulating Airbus on a successful first flight.

Do we hear Airbus or more specifically, Leahy, showing such diplomacy? Not a chance. Leahy would rather boast about how much farther he can piss.
 
Glom
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:41 pm

PM, I've noticed how you seem to challenge both A's and B's equally here. That's highly respectable.
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 7:59 pm

Quoting Greaser (Reply 15):
Just because Leahy said the 777-200ER will be dead doesn't mean it will be.

I like to compare this thread with the one about the former Continental Airline boss Gordon Bethune saying the biggest passenger jet ever built -the A380- has more to do with "engineers' testosterone" than giving passengers what they want.
In my eyes Leahy made a similar "big mouth" comment like Bethune. Just because both people say their opinion does not mean they are right. Except that the one and the other group of a.net think so and will bash each other about these comments claiming that they are right because these two are the greatest persons in aviation on earth.......  Yeah sure
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 8:30 pm

Quoting Glom (Reply 33):
PM, I've noticed how you seem to challenge both A's and B's equally here. That's highly respectable.

Thanks.
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 8:34 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 34):
I like to compare this thread with the one about the former Continental Airline boss Gordon Bethune saying the biggest passenger jet ever built -the A380- has more to do with "engineers' testosterone" than giving passengers what they want.
In my eyes Leahy made a similar "big mouth" comment like Bethune. Just because both people say their opinion does not mean they are right.

I understand your point. The difference is that Bethune's comments are unlikely to be either substantiated or disproved any time soon (if ever) whereas we will all know next month out of which orifice Mr. Leahy was speaking.
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 9:51 pm

Quoting Glom (Reply 16):
If the A350 could rack up 100+ orders, it could be devastating for the pride of the 787.

Not at all... Boeing is still going to have the upper hand in all respects... Folks, there is a reason why AC, NW and Korea opted for the 787. These airlines were A330 operators and they are most likely going to switch to the 787. This didn't happen becuase Airbus spokes'women' was in the hospital. Airbus needs to stop this excuse game and live up to reality....

Yes, it seems the A350 is a done deal and she will fly.... and this is exactly what Boeing wants... But you are going to have to ask yourselves, will this bird make money compared to the 787. I honestly believe - not a chance. Boeing designed the 787 to be less expensive to build and the conventional way of making aircraft is out the window.... this is where Airbus is making the HUGE mistake and they are going to pay a high price for it as the 787 will eat any possible profit...

Cheers!
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 10:20 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 11):
Typical New Yorker, I guess.

Not really, to paraphase a famous line from Star Wars: "He's more European than a New Yorker, twisted and evil!"
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 10:23 pm

Quoting Glom (Reply 26):
Has the 787 passed 100 firm yet? It could actually take the lead.

The 787 has 156 firm orders.
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 10:23 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
�If I could do the A350 all over again I would have done more advertising earlier, and more public relations earlier, and would not have allowed all those [787] magazine covers to appear.�

Yes, I've read the whole thread, but I still don't see how he prevents 787 magazine covers from appearing. Even if magazine covers were for sale, is he saying that A would buy all of them so that B787 would not be on them?

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
I don't like it when people employ the first person. It smacks of egocentricity. Airbus aren't doing it for 'him'; he works for the company just like anyone else.

I agree totally.

Quoting Glom (Reply 16):
If the A350 could rack up 100+ orders, it could be devastating for the pride of the 787. Boeing's best effort and introducing revolutionary aircraft and it only mildly outperformed the A350.

Why isn't Airbus shooting for parity in orders?

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
You don't like the style? That is entirely your prerogative. But he is right - he is damn good at what he does.

Why is this all about him? Is he the only person working in the commercial division of Airbus? If not, what do all his co-workers and underlings think about Generalissimo Leahy taking all the credit for their work?
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 10:32 pm

More from Leahy in an article I read...

"On the A380, Leahy sees "good prospects" with some US Majors despite their financial trouble. "There won't be an imminent announcement, but we are in discussion with the two American Majors that currently operate 747s," he stated. The two US Major passenger airlines operating 747-400s are Northwest, which recently ordered the 787, and United Airlines, currently in Chapter 11."
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 10:33 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 40):
Yes, I've read the whole thread, but I still don't see how he prevents 787 magazine covers from appearing. Even if magazine covers were for sale, is he saying that A would buy all of them so that B787 would not be on them?

You're missing the point. He's not saying he has the power to control the press. What he's saying is - if Airbus had the A350 they now have, much earlier, they would have had a newsworthy plane to fight for magazine front cover space against the 787. Not so hard to understand.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 10:42 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Downplaying the significance of doing away with engine bleed air, he quotes a General Electric study saying there is no change in direct costs; he claims the existing A330 has cabin relative humidity within one percentage point of Boeing’s much-vaunted figures for the 787; and he says the A350 cabin altitude will is

A mate of mine used to have the old army joke printed out and framed on the wall - "If you can keep your head when everyone else is running round in circles and panicking and getting the white flags out - you probably don't understand the situation......"

I do begin to wonder if Airbus management understands what they're up against competing with the 787. The point about 'bleedless engines' is not that they improve cabin humidity.

They do do that, as a side-benefit. But their main advantage is that they cut fuel consumption by a factor of up to 10%........

[Edited 2005-05-19 15:46:21]
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 10:46 pm

It would demonstrate courtesy if the thread opener credited the source of the original information, particularly as the story was written by someone I know.  Wink
 
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RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 10:50 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 43):
But their main advantage is that they cut fuel consumption by a factor of around 10%........

After the initial flurry of interest around bleedless engines, I believe both RR and GE have said that bleedless isn't a very significant contributor to the fuel efficiency of their new engines.

Unless I'm mistaken, Airbus hasn't said if the "new" A350 has bleed or bleedless engines.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
NYC777
Posts: 5066
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 10:59 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 45):
Unless I'm mistaken, Airbus hasn't said if the "new" A350 has bleed or bleedless engines.

GE has already stated that they will develop a bleeded engine for the 350.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
keesje
Posts: 8751
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 11:01 pm

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 37):
Folks, there is a reason why AC, NW and Korea opted for the 787.

Some of the reasons apart from the fact the 787 will probably be a good aircraft:
AC : Boeing is willing to buy all Airbusses (and IMO thats only half the story)
NWA : is said to have paid little for it's A330, NWA is price driven, a US launch customer was essential.
Korea (& Japan) : trade deficit, Politics, MHI,
Air India : lets not even get into this.


On the 787 price, I don't believe in miracles. There is no such thing as a free lunch..

Quoting Backfire (Reply 44):
It would demonstrate courtesy if the thread opener credited the source of the original information,

Kieran Daly, Toulouse, for www.rati.com..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
NYC777
Posts: 5066
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 11:06 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 47):
AC : Boeing is willing to buy all Airbusses (and IMO thats only half the story)
NWA : is said to have paid little for it's A330, NWA is price driven, a US launch customer was essential.
Korea (& Japan) : trade deficit, Politics, MHI,
Air India : lets not even get into this.

AC: Milton found the economics of the 787 vs the 350 more compelling, read: the 787 is better than the A350

NWA : same as AC

KE : same as AC

AI : they released the internal study saying how they will be more profitable with the Boeing fleet vs. the Airbus fleet over 17 years.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: Leahy Is Out Of The Hospital Now, Here We Go..

Thu May 19, 2005 11:18 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 45):
After the initial flurry of interest around bleedless engines, I believe both RR and GE have said that bleedless isn't a very significant contributor to the fuel efficiency of their new engines.

None of us knows for sure, SCbriml. Boeing claim 20% better efficiency per passenger - but I don't imagine even they could tell you how much of that will be contributed by the engines, how much by the thinner high-aspect-ratio wings, how much by the improved streamlining, how much by the higher cruising speed, how much by the higher operating altitude.......

I do have a couple of pieces of extra information, though. Only hearsay. A friend of mine and I got interested in the 787 a couple of months ago, and researched it a bit. Another friend - who works for P & W, so I suppose you could say that he is 'impartial'  Smile - told us two things:-

1. The fuel tankage of the 787-8 - the 8,500-mile version - is planned to be 'less than 30,000 gallons'. Unlike any of Boeing's other models, you can't ifnd the 787 tankage figure anywhere on their website. But if that IS the figure, it's phenomenally low for an aeroplane with that range.

2. Boeing sewed things up so that, because they had funded a good proportion of the 'bleedless' research, the engine manufacturers would be contractually barred from providing some aspects of the new technology to any other aircraft manufacturer. So, very possibly, Airbus are not planning to use bleedless engines simply because they can't get them unless they spend even more 'launch' money on developing them?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci

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