planespotting
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US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 1:02 pm

Well i couldn't find a simliar thread out there, so i figured i'd start my own.

Looking at the combined route map it appears they have both coasts covered extremely well. But, as the title of this thread points out, this new hybrid eastcoast-westcoast airline obviously lacks a central US point for connecting service.

For example, say a passenger in Charlotte wanted to get to Austin TX. From this preliminary route map (im sure it will be changed some) it shows that they would have to fly to Phoenix or Las Vegas first, then back track about 1000 miles and get into Austin probably 8 hours or so after leaving Charlotte (4-5 hr flight from CLT, small layover, 2 hour flight LAS-AUS). That is extremely inconvenient, and from where these airlines stand right now they would probably lose a lot of customers on like routes. Im not even including people who might want to fly from AUS-ORD, or say MCI-SAN, or MSP-LIT, etc...etc..etc...

If they could somehow reduce some of their overlapping flights and concentrate more on a hub/focus city operation in the central US (i know that most of the viable hub cities in the central US are taken, but surely there could be some city to offer enough O&D traffic for them to send enough flights from the east and west coast to connect to smaller cities in the Central US) they could probably corner a large percentage of the market in the cities that they serve. This is of course assuming that they get everything else working in a way so that customers actually want to pay money to fly on them. if they can't get that going then having connections to every city in the US won't help them.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
rjpieces
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 1:04 pm

All I can say is that every airline can't cater to EVERY passenger. It is sad that airlines haven't yet learned that it is a waste catering to the pax who wants to go from Charlotte to Austin.....
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
StarCruiser
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 1:34 pm

Why don't we wait to see how the merger works out before telling the combined airlines what hubs to open in the heartland? There are plenty of other airlines quite capable of taking pax from AUS - ORD, MCI - SAN, MSP - LIT, OKC - SLC, ABQ - OMA and many other routes besides. No one besides non-revs will fly CLT - AUS via LAS anyway.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 1:36 pm

Quoting StarCruiser (Reply 2):
Why don't we wait to see how the merger works out before telling the combined airlines what hubs to open in the heartland?

Excellent point. They will keep working on where they are strong, then move into other areas once the airline stabilizes.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
Indy
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 1:39 pm

I would think refocusing some of their traffic from PIT & CLT to MCI or STL would be a good setup for them. It gives them a hub presense better spaced between PHL and PHX/LAS. STL Might be the best option because of market size and available facilities.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
MAH4546
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 1:48 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 4):
I would think refocusing some of their traffic from PIT & CLT to MCI or STL would be a good setup for them. It gives them a hub presense better spaced between PHL and PHX/LAS. STL Might be the best option because of market size and available facilities.

No. That is a stupid idea. Kansas City has terrible facilities for a hub and St. Louis does not have the market size.

As pointed out, one airline cannot be anything to everyone.

US Airways can't get you reasonably between Austin and Charlotte. So what?
a.
 
ouboy79
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 1:49 pm

Who is to say we won't see new routes out of CLT/PHL and PHX/LAS to connect to this "one network" cities. That would definitely be more cost effective than a new mid America hub. Of course people going from DSM to DFW will take someone else - unless the fare is just unbeatable.
 
squirrel83
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 1:49 pm

INteresting Article about PIT

Pittsburgh given little chance of regaining its status as hub

Pittsburgh International Airport won't be resurrected as a hub as part of the US Airways-America West merger, but it could gain more work for mechanics if the two airlines decide to consolidate Airbus heavy maintenance here.

During a conference call with reporters after the merger was announced yesterday afternoon, US Airways Chief Executive Officer Bruce Lakefield said he does not anticipate any change in operations at Pittsburgh from the consolidation of the nation's seventh- and eighth-largest airlines.

Lakefield said Pittsburgh would remain as a "focus city" under the new airline. Although a press release announcing the merger listed Pittsburgh and Las Vegas as "secondary hubs," the difference appears to be more about semantics than actual operations.

US Airways currently flies 233 daily flights out of Pittsburgh International Airport, less than half the level of just a few years ago. It dropped Pittsburgh as a hub last year and has cut hundreds of daily flights.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05140/507778.stm
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
Indy
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 1:55 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
No. That is a stupid idea. Kansas City has terrible facilities for a hub and St. Louis does not have the market size.

Its not as stupid as having 3 hubs practically on top of each other. Well PIT isn't a hub in name but the schedule is hub like. St. Louis doesn't have the market size? You are kidding me right? STL people correct me if I am wrong but STL has a bigger market than PIT and CLT. CLT is booming but isn't huge just yet. PIT is basically stagnant. They have seen a net population growth of under 10% total in about 40 years.

Keeping PIT, CLT and PHL would be stupid. PHL is an obvious keeper. But when it comes to PIT and CLT you'd be better served moving some of your equipment to STL.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Coronado990
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 1:56 pm

Quoting Planespotting (Thread starter):
Im not even including people who might want to fly from AUS-ORD, or say MCI-SAN, or MSP-LIT, etc...etc..etc...

Please note MCI-SAN passengers can easily connect through PHX.

Speeking of Kansas City, I know the terminals are not laid out for a hub activity, but I'd like to see them give MCI a try again.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
Indy
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 1:58 pm

Given that STL has the facilities and will be getting a new runway I'd think they would be a better bet between the two. Geographically speaking MCI and STL are good choices. I just think STL is better suited immediately.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
seven3seven
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 pm

Well hopefully it will all be a moot point as these two miserable carriers make one big miserable carrier and go under.

If only the creditors and the govt. would stop propping up failing airlines and let the healthier ones survive.
My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company
 
AADC10
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 2:36 pm

Quoting Planespotting (Thread starter):
For example, say a passenger in Charlotte wanted to get to Austin TX. From this preliminary route map (im sure it will be changed some) it shows that they would have to fly to Phoenix or Las Vegas first, then back track about 1000 miles and get into Austin probably 8 hours or so after leaving Charlotte

If US/HP are going to continue to morph into an LCC, the first thing they do is forget about passengers between smaller cities unless it fits in with existing flights. WN serves some smaller cities in Texas because of their heritage as a regional carrier and B6 serves upstate NY in exchange for slots at JFK. If you look at those two airlines, outside of their home states, most of their destinations are large cities or smaller airports in the vicinity of large cities.

Legacy carriers killed themselves trying to be all things to all people. If you want a cheap flight on US/HP, you connect wherever you have to connect in Phoenix and love the price. Otherwise, if you value a shorter flight and higher frequencies, you pay more and take another airline. WN does not really have hubs. B6 has hubs but they are in New York and Los Angeles, the two biggest markets in the country and they are really mostly O&D.

As the LCCs take over, cities with metropolitan areas of less than two million residents are going to take it on the chin, because LCCs will not provide extensive service there and the legacies that have been beating each other up for those passengers will start to disappear, leaving them with lousy flights at high prices.
 
HAL
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 4:30 pm

From my vantage point as an HP pilot, I'd say there are a few parts missing if you think we should start a hub somewhere in the mid-US.

The biggest problem is cost. The entire reason for the merger is to reduce costs to a point where the airlines can be viable. They have to survive first before anything else happens. The cost involved in opening a new hub is astronomical. There's no way Parker would do that now - the current hubs and routes serve our needs fine. As several people have posted above, no airline has to be (or can be) the airline for everyone in the country. Starting a hub in the midwest is the fastest way possible to killing the newborn HP/US airline.

If I want to fly as a passenger from Seattle to Los Angeles, I could try Alaska, United, Southwest or America West. But unless I want to go halfway (or more) across the country and back I won't consider Northwest, Delta, Jetblue, or American. That's not to say they aren't good airlines in their own areas, but no airline can cover the country.

If you overlay a map of population density over the combined HP/US route structure however, you'd have a pretty good match-up. We'll be flying where the people are, and for the most part, where they want to go. It's going to be a bumpy ride for us employees during the merger, but I think it may work out well in the end.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
supa7E7
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 4:39 pm

It seems obvious to me that CLT-AUS will be a new connect-the-dots nonstop route in the near future (6 mos max). Any more dumb questions?
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
midex461
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 5:34 pm

HAL, you're on board my respected users list

Quoting HAL (Reply 13):
It's going to be a bumpy ride for us employees during the merger

You're preaching to the choir! As a fairly new (about 2 months) underwing employee, I'm especially worried. The youngest US ramper has about 14 years seniority.
Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
 
A330323X
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 6:14 pm

You're preaching to the choir! As a fairly new (about 2 months) underwing employee, I'm especially worried. The youngest US ramper has about 14 years seniority.

That's not even remotely true. In some stations, like PIT, you indeed need a lot of seniority to hold a job, but that's hardly the norm. US is currently *hiring* fleet service workers in PHL, DCA, BOS, BDL, PVD, MHT, LAX.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
planespotting
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 7:47 pm

perhaps this new airline will need to examine it's identity after the merger is completed. It seems to me that with the language involved in the press releases, this airline wants to be the pseudo LCC with access to the largest amount of people, and the largest route structure (of any LCC). Logic would indicate that by combining two airlines, each with a huge route structure on opposite coasts, they would hope to become overnight a superairline with basically no gaps in their route structure and able to compete with American, United, Continental, etc...But yet they are just going to leave a huge portion of the United States left out of the picture. Thats what doesn't really make sense to me, which was the reason i started this thread.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
petazulu
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 10:43 pm

Planespotting,

Far more people live on either coast of the US than in the middle. Additionally, if you live in the middle and want to get to any coast- US/HP is quite convenient! Airlines are increasing their Point to Point trans continental routes (see Jetblue), thus providing more people direct service between coasts and reducing the need to have Hub in the middle of the country to transfer through.

For example, would I rather go PHL-SAN or PHL-DFW-SAN? If cost is similar, the answer is clear to me.

Midwest hubs are as much about serving the local people as they are to help people go East/West accross the country. If US/HP serve all large midwest cities with flights going both East and West- many needs will be met. The exception to that might be Heartland North/South routings like Houston- Chicago, but I am sure they can live with that.
 
flypdx
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 10:55 pm

Maybe, since they aren't even combined yet, we should let them do their job instead of telling them what they are doing wrong...
 
flyboyaz
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 10:57 pm

Quoting Seven3Seven (Reply 11):
Well hopefully it will all be a moot point as these two miserable carriers make one big miserable carrier and go under.

Well that's just wonderful! I'm sure the 40K+ employees (including myself) appreciate your sincere (not) concern for their jobs.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
stlgph
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Fri May 20, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
Its not as stupid as having 3 hubs practically on top of each other. Well PIT isn't a hub in name but the schedule is hub like. St. Louis doesn't have the market size? You are kidding me right? STL people correct me if I am wrong but STL has a bigger market than PIT and CLT. CLT is booming but isn't huge just yet. PIT is basically stagnant. They have seen a net population growth of under 10% total in about 40 years.

Keeping PIT, CLT and PHL would be stupid. PHL is an obvious keeper. But when it comes to PIT and CLT you'd be better served moving some of your equipment to STL.

get rid of Charlotte and eliminate a major southeastern point for southeast, Florida, Caribbean, and Latin America air traffic? brilliant idea.

and US Airways is not just going to pick up and move from Pittsburgh, where they are already established and "own" it and move to St. Louis. unless American Airlines suddenly gets up and moves out of town entirely, the only thing available is 15 gates in the D Concourse which requires a good month's work of repainting and doing some touching up on ceilings and carpets.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Indy
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 12:53 am

They Don't need CLT when they have PHL and PHL is a better market. When you look at the US combined route map you will see that there are 3 hubs far too close together. They don't have to give up CLT or PIT but I think keeping the two at focus city levels would perhaps be a wiser move. If you are planning on establishing a hub or a large focus city further west where you do plan on taking the equipment from? PHL? No. PHX? No. LAS? No as well. You take them from your two smaller market hubs and divert them to a larger market. The new organization will need to be healthy and it will require reworking their hub system on the US side.

BTW you can run a significant operation with 15 gates. You may not have a fortress hub but you can easily run 100 flights a day with that.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
ssides
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 12:54 am

The central US is pretty much locked up for hubs.

Look at the map:

DFW -- AA
DEN -- UA
ORD -- AA & UA
MSP -- NW
IAH -- CO
MEM -- NW
CVG -- DL
STL -- AA

There's just not room.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
MAH4546
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 12:57 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 10):
Given that STL has the facilities and will be getting a new runway I'd think they would be a better bet between the two. Geographically speaking MCI and STL are good choices. I just think STL is better suited immediately.

Does American Airlines no longer exist? They run a full-pledged hub in St. Louis. There is no market room for another hub.
a.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 1:04 am

Is another airport authority going to be at the beck and call of US as CLT has been? US said "Build us better international facilities," and they got them. US said "Build us a regional concourse," and they got it. US said "We need more regional gates," and they are getting it as we speak. Meanwhile, usage costs at CLT are still rock bottom. Find US another airport with that combination.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Indy
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 1:15 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 24):
Does American Airlines no longer exist? They run a full-pledged hub in St. Louis. There is no market room for another hub.

They used to run a hub in STL. It was received as part of the TWA merger. It has since been downgraded significantly.

Cubsrule... It is quite possible nothing will change. But US has 3 hubs too close together and it would seem logical that something would change. PHL won't be the one. If they were to completely dismantle an operation versus shaving off some flights to shift somewhere else I'd bet PIT gets the complete boot. CLT does have a booming market and while it may not be a top 20 yet it is growing at an incredible rate. Pittsburgh has gone nowhere in the past 40 years in terms of population change. So of the two PIT would be the choice if I had to pick one to go completely. But I think if they were wanting to set up something a little more west the best move in my opinion would be to transfer about 50 flights from PIT and 75 from CLT. Those 125 total would make for a solid focus city and would fit well in the space left behind by AA in STL.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Cubsrule
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 1:27 am

Indy- It's interesting you bring up the point about population change. The South as a whole is growing at a fairly good clip (as is the West), and it seems to make good business sense to maintain a strong presence there. Note recent developments such as DL's expansion of ATL flying to smaller Carolinas markets, US' service upgrades to several smaller NC cities, and increased DL and AA service on southeast P2P (CLT-NYC as well as RIC and ORF-Florida in DL's case and recent new LGA MQ AA/MQ service). I would argue that this population shift was one reason for the demise of HP's CMH hub. They realized that the people were in PHX and LAS (or going there) and believed they could make more money there.

In terms of market size, realistically, STL, PIT, and CLT are all and would all be overserved by the presence of a fortress hub. It's the nature of the beast. Chicago and Atlanta are overserved by hubs there, too. I think the long stage lengths going out to the west coast tend to even out the economics. Looking at it a different way, the PHX originator is much more likely to be willing connect in CLT to get to MKE than the MCI originator because the time loss is relatively less. I'm not necessarily coming to a conclusion, just throwing more ideas around (and killing time before my own 9 hour flight this evening).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
2travel2know
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 1:33 am

Once upon a time:
(1) Didn't US have some regional flights opertaing in MCI?
That airport may be lousy for a hub if the connecting passeger require terminal change, if all HP/US flights operate in the same terminal, I see no problems.
(2) HP had something in Columbus, OH ?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Indy
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 1:38 am

BTW... Lifetime Cubs fan here and so bummed about the way things have turned out for them. I miss the days of seeing guys like Rick Sutcliffe on the mound. They had some fun to watch teams in the 80's.

Anyway... I drove through Charlotte about a year ago or so. Absolutely beautiful city with the exception of the severely messed up highway system in and around town. Had it not been for the road system I could see living around a city like that. I wonder how much of a negative impact the road system in Charlotte will have on growth through 2030?

Whatever happens this HP/US company will need to make some changes to get and stay healthy.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Indy
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 28):
Didn't US have some regional flights opertaing in MCI?

I think at one time or another US has something going on about everywhere east of the Mississippi River.  Smile
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 1:44 am

kci has room to build a 4th terminal!

coudl be built just for this purpose
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 2:36 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 4):
MCI or STL

Neither one offers decent Yields!

Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
Its not as stupid as having 3 hubs practically on top of each other

Pittsburgh, Charlotte, and Philadelpha are commerce centers in North America. All three of which offer larger numbers for O/D as well!


Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
STL people correct me if I am wrong but STL has a bigger market than PIT and CLT.

Wrong!
... Psst.... American Airlines dropped the London, Paris, Honolulu, and Kahului routes from St. Louis in favor of much better performing ORD!

Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
PIT is basically stagnant

Wrong!

Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
better served moving some of your equipment to STL.

Wrong, that would be a very silly move! STL, has all it can do trying to get one additional flight out of its sea of LCC's!

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 9):
I know the terminals are not laid out for a hub activity, but I'd like to see them give MCI a try again.

Sure... Lets have a major airline or two gamble on an old TWA playground!

Quoting Ssides (Reply 23):
Look at the map:

DEN -- UA
MEM -- NW
CVG -- DL

DEN - Considered West Coast, not MidWest
MEM - Considered South, not MidWest
CVG - Considered East Coast, not MidWest

Regards - Kahala777
 
Indy
Posts: 3942
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 3:01 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 32):

Neither one offers decent Yields!

When you speak of yield you refer to what?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 32):
Wrong!
... Psst.... American Airlines dropped the London, Paris, Honolulu, and Kahului routes from St. Louis in favor of much better performing ORD!

When it comes to my market size quote YOU are wrong.

St. Louis Ranks #18
Pittsburgh Ranks #21
Charlotte Ranks #38

Source: http://www.hodesrecruitmentdirectory.com/markets_top50us.asp

And as far as Pittsburgh being stagnant you are wrong on that as well.

Pittsburgh since 1950 has experienced a total population growth of 8.2%

Source: http://www.demographia.com/dm-usmet-fr50.htm

Out of the top 50 metro areas they are dead last. That is based on 1950 - 1990. Going by 1950 - 1996 the rate is even worse at 7.5% and still dead last. Only Buffalo is in the stagnant area like that. The next lowest after Buffalo is 25% growth. The 50 city average is over 100% growth since 1950.

Do you have any facts to back up your claims?

I think serving #18 versus #38 is a smarter move.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Indy
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 3:06 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 32):
CVG - Considered East Coast, not MidWest

Batting a thousand today are we? Apparently DL considers it Midwest as well.

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/cdap/pages/-3876-/

Do a Google search for Cincinnati and Midwest and see how much comes up.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 3:17 am

Kahala777 or should I say lhr001, back again are we!!!!

CVG is most definitely Midwest. Maybe and this is a slight maybe it would be considered the South as CVG is actually in KY!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
A330323X
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RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 3:25 am

I'm not going to bother to respond to each point in this thread, since many of them are rather ridiculous, but all I've got to say is this:

PHL will remain about the same size, perhaps a little larger; CLT will definitely get larger. Over the next two or three years, US will add current HP markets such as OMA, PDX, JFK, AUS, SAT. (Likewise, I expect HP to add US markets like PVD, BNA, PBI, DAY.)

I expect PIT to drop from the current 230 flights to around 160 flights with the November schedule, and I expect it to stay around there.

There will be no hub at MCI or STL. There will be some connecting the dots (LGA-MCI is very likely; BOS-MCI, DCA-STL, etc. are also possible), but certainly nothing approaching 100 flights a day.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 3:26 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 29):
Anyway... I drove through Charlotte about a year ago or so. Absolutely beautiful city with the exception of the severely messed up highway system in and around town. Had it not been for the road system I could see living around a city like that. I wonder how much of a negative impact the road system in Charlotte will have on growth through 2030?

Honestly, even just in the 2 years I've been a part time Charlotte resident, it's gotten a lot better. There are lots of big plans between now and 2030... if it all gets built, there's lots of room for more growth. IMHO, Atlanta's sprawl is worse...
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Indy
Posts: 3942
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 3:28 am

Cubsrule.... have they finally gotten the light rail up and running? You guys don't have a rush hour in Charlotte. You have a rush day. LOL. I left at 6am to avoid the traffic. No luck.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
midex461
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2000 11:08 am

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 3:30 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 16):
That's not even remotely true.

OK, I was wrong. That info wasn't exactly from a reliable source (some HP guys on the employee parking shuttle).
Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 4:17 am

Quoting StarCruiser (Reply 2):
No one besides non-revs will fly CLT - AUS via LAS anyway.

NW has routed me LAX-MEM-AUS (936 miles more than nonstop) and PDX-MSP-AUS (753 miles more than nonstop). DL offers a code-sharing route with CO with a 2,795 mile diversion from SJC to SEA via IAH and SLC for a mere $158 one-way.

CLT-LAX-AUS is 1,974 miles over the nonstop distance, and would make for a hell of a mileage run. I know quite a few people who would take advantage of that kind of mileage bonus.

Cheers.
International Homo of Mystery
 
whlinder
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2000 12:47 am

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 4:20 am

The UA codeshare will remain, and the central US hub will be sufficiently filled by routing traffic through ORD and DEN on UA.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11440
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 38):
Cubsrule.... have they finally gotten the light rail up and running? You guys don't have a rush hour in Charlotte. You have a rush day. LOL. I left at 6am to avoid the traffic. No luck.

Light rail is still a ways off, and downtown is so pedestrian-unfriendly (and people are so car-tied now) that I doubt it will make a big difference. 77 is a lot better than it was a year ago, though.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1209
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:17 am

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 4:32 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 36):
There will be no hub at MCI or STL. There will be some connecting the dots (LGA-MCI is very likely; BOS-MCI, DCA-STL, etc. are also possible), but certainly nothing approaching 100 flights a day.

As much as I would like to see another airline open up a hub/focus operation at STL, as Mark stated earlier there is no local traffic left to warrant such an undertaking. AA, WN and the rest have the STL market pretty much covered.

However, if they were to do so, there are 15 gates available in "D", along with a new runway coming on line early next year. The gate facilities may be marginal at best, but they are there nonetheless...

Not sure if MCI has the gates available, but the way the terminals are being remodeled (central security, no longer at each gate), certainly makes it much more conducive for connecting flights. Not sure if there would be enough O&D demand there either, but WTF do I know..
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2002
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 32):
DEN - Considered West Coast, not MidWest

I have never heard anyone consider Denver West Coast. You are not even over the Rocky Mountains there.

The big factor in all of this is the code share with UA. If US/HP is satisfied with handing over customers to UA at DEN, then the current hub structure makes a lot of sense.
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 4:46 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 35):
Midwest.

A very skewed term... along with Legacy, Fortress, and Cartel!

Quoting Indy (Reply 33):
Source: http://www.hodesrecruitmentdirectory...s.asp

You use a recruitment guide?  no 

Quoting Indy (Reply 33):
When you speak of yield you refer to what?

Charlotte: Banking/Commerce
Philadelphia: Banking/Commerce/Industry
Pittsburgh: Industry

St. Louis: Prey Tell!  sarcastic 

Honestly, some of you that are trying to shore up some lost use for what is left of St. Louis and Kansas City ... It is getting old... Very old... TWA dropped Kansas City, and American has a very limited use for St. Louis. St. Louis, has and always will be of little or no importance to any airline! With the expcetion of TWA!

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 44):
Denver West Coast

Talk to Frontier Airlines, and United Airlines!

Regards - Kahala777
 
blhp68
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:04 am

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 4:53 am

In regards to the gate/hub situation at MCI. Currently US/US Airways express operate gates 1-8 out of terminal A. Gates 1-5 are strictly commuter gates to serve those 12 N/S EAS routes, with the other remaining gates for the mainline to PHL, CLT and DCA. This area of the terminal is currently the only one that has bathrooms inside security ( the rest of the terminals are being fitted currently). America West operates out of gates 72 and 73 in terminal C (two gates for three/four daily flights? doesn't make much sense..) If anything I see the two airlines consolidating in terminal A and running maybe a few more point to point routes. As far as a central hub, I dont see that happening unless a fourth terminal is constructed ( such wishful thingking I know). So we will have to see what happens, I heard that the two airlines were pretty much going to be two separate operations operating under one name. This being until they are completley merged anyway. As much as I want my hometown to be considered for a central hub, I dont think it is going to happen in the near future.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 26):
They used to run a hub in STL. It was received as part of the TWA merger. It has since been downgraded significantly.

Used to? They still do. They offer about 220 daily flights to about 72 cities. They run a full hub operation in St. Louis. It is smaller than the TWA hub, but, the fact is, the TWA hub was too big in the first place. The St. Louis hub perfectly fits the market size. There is no room for anybody else. The market is extremely well served for its size.
a.
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 4:57 am

"If only the creditors and the govt. would stop propping up failing airlines and let the healthier ones survive."

But that would mean they actually practice free market capitalism!! And we all know what nonsense that is
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6655
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: US/HP Merger Lacking Central US Hub

Sat May 21, 2005 5:03 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
US Airways can't get you reasonably between Austin and Charlotte. So what?

Am I missing something here? CLT is a hub, they'd probably start N/S flights between the two.
Love Trumps Hate