atmx2000
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A350 Width Same As A330

Fri May 20, 2005 6:13 pm

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...echnology/2002281794_airbus20.html

"Since December, we improved width, range, seat costs, economics," Leahy was quoted as saying Wednesday to the aviation trade press in Toulouse, France, home of Airbus.

"We changed the aircraft three or four times in the past 90 days. We achieved an eight-ton weight reduction through the use of new technologies."

"This is an all-new aircraft," he said.

Previously, the A350 had been pitched as a derivative of the Airbus A330 — with the same fuselage but new wings and engines — up against the all-new 787.

Leahy's assertion that Airbus had increased the airplane's "width" briefly raised the possibility of a new fuselage, which would truly mean an entirely new airplane.

But later an Airbus spokesman punctured that idea. There is no new fuselage, the spokesman clarified — the A350 will have the same cross-section as the A330.

But the cabin "lining is now thinner, so the internal cabin width is improved a bit for passengers," the spokesman said.


It seems that Leahy's stay in the hospital has left him a bit delirious and filled with visions of new, wider fuselages.  Wink
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trex8
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Fri May 20, 2005 11:35 pm

he's a salesman, if the internal cabin cross section width is 1mm wider, its "wider" than the old product!
 
keesje
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Fri May 20, 2005 11:38 pm

You said the fuselage would be wider, he didn't.

pls read carefully!

 Wink
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NYC777
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Fri May 20, 2005 11:39 pm

yeah pretty soon customers are going to see through he BS and call him on it. They may have already..that's why Airbus has lost many big orders this year already.
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atmx2000
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Fri May 20, 2005 11:47 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 2):
You said the fuselage would be wider, he didn't.

Well he called it an all new aircraft too. Now we know he only meant it was all new aircraft derivative revision. You can sue me for underestimating Leahy's ability to exaggerate.
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Gman94
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Fri May 20, 2005 11:53 pm

Im sure that the Boeing Times, er I mean Seattle Times takes a nice unbiased view regarding anything to do with Airbus.  sarcastic 
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 12:00 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
yeah pretty soon customers are going to see through he BS and call him on it. They may have already..that's why Airbus has lost many big orders this year already.

Hmmm, it took customers three decades and 5,000+ orders to "see through" the BS. Great BS!
 
EGGD
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:06 am

Thats strange, because this is the first time i've heard anything about a 'wider fuselage.' I'm sure it was just a passing idea but obviously you have chosen to dwell on it considering your inclination. I think everyone else who knows anything about the A350 including possible customers know and knew all along that the fuselage would be the same as the A330. Really, if you want to have a dig at the A350 and Airbus you are going to have to do better than this.
 
N60659
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:18 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 2):
You said the fuselage would be wider, he didn't.

pls read carefully!

Well based on the quote in the paper:

Since December, we improved width, range, seat costs, economics," Leahy was quoted as saying Wednesday to the aviation trade press in Toulouse, France, home of Airbus.

It looks like Mr. Leahy was the one who commented about the "improving the width". To me that would mean "making the fuselage wider".

-N60659
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scbriml
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting N60659 (Reply 8):
To me that would mean "making the fuselage wider".

That is an entirely reasonable assumption. Unfortunately, despite it being an entirely reasonable assumption, it's wrong.  wink 
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N60659
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:25 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 5):
Im sure that the Boeing Times, er I mean Seattle Times takes a nice unbiased view regarding anything to do with Airbus.

Well, it looks like you never followed the entire 737 rudder saga after UA 585 US 427 and the reporting by the Seattle Times.

-N60659
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clickhappy
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:29 am

he's talking out of his rear, assuming that since it is the Seattle Times they must be pro Boeing. Anyone who has ever read the paper knows this isn't true, but for an internet expert what would you expect?
 
DAYflyer
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:36 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 5):
Im sure that the Boeing Times, er I mean Seattle Times takes a nice unbiased view regarding anything to do with Airbus.

Just like the London and Paris papers hate Airbus.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 11):
he's talking out of his rear, assuming that since it is the Seattle Times they must be pro Boeing. Anyone who has ever read the paper knows this isn't true, but for an internet expert what would you expect?

Well said.

And of course the A-350, with 10 frames sold to date, will replace all and be the end all of the aircraft world.
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N60659
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:49 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 9):
Unfortunately, despite it being an entirely reasonable assumption, it's wrong.

Just to be clear, while the assumption is an inference from the aforementioned statement by Mr. Leahy, I personally do not subscribe to it (the assumption, not the statement). Clear as mud right!  confused 

-N60659
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EGGD
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:59 am

Quoting N60659 (Reply 13):
Just to be clear, while the assumption is an inference from the aforementioned statement by Mr. Leahy, I personally do not subscribe to it (the assumption, not the statement). Clear as mud right!

No, you were wrong, read it again.

Since December, we improved width, range, seat costs, economics," Leahy was quoted as saying Wednesday to the aviation trade press in Toulouse, France, home of Airbus. .

Where is the DIRECT reference to the width of the fuselage itself? Due to the lack of context it is safe to assume that the width improvement wasn't anything to do with fuselage witdth. Making the fuselage wider would be an enlargement and not an improvement.
 
N60659
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 2:15 am

Quoting EGGD (Reply 14):
Where is the DIRECT reference to the width of the fuselage itself? Due to the lack of context it is safe to assume that the width improvement wasn't anything to do with fuselage witdth.

Okay. Let me try this one more time. The quote made a reference to "width". Width of what? You are right inasmuch that there was no reference to the width of the fuselage. Hence the assumption - width of fuselage. When you have a "lack of context" as you claim, all types of assumptions are possible. Just as you have asked me to read the statement again, I will implore you to read Reply 13 again. While "increasing the width of the fusealge" is my assumption to the statement, I do not believe that the fuselage width will be increased. Two entirely seperate entities - assumption from statement and belief of fact.

-N60659
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EGGD
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 2:30 am

You don't need to try one more time, you got it wrong the first time. You made an assumption that was wrong and not really justified. Do you really think that Airbus would make modifications to the dimensions of the aircraft itself and only mention it as an 'improvement in width' in an article? The basis for your assumptions are unfounded. Had it been a major design change there would have been a context, thats why you should assume that as nothing was mentioned of the fuselage that the width gain was purely due to interior design, a much more minimal change.
 
mham001
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 2:43 am

Ok wisasses, how about some specifics.

How much could be shaved off the interior? How thick are the fusalage walls and exactly what could be made thinner without losing stuctual integrity?

Enough of the silly word games.
 
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 2:46 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 12):
And of course the A-350, with 10 frames sold to date

Sold? I suppose, in a manner of speaking  Smile

Quoting EGGD (Reply 16):
Do you really think that Airbus would make modifications to the dimensions of the aircraft itself and only mention it as an 'improvement in width' in an article?

Maybe, if they were talking about their "all-new aircraft"...

So, what were you saying about context?
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N60659
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting EGGD (Reply 16):
Do you really think that Airbus would make modifications to the dimensions of the aircraft itself and only mention it as an 'improvement in width' in an article?

Sir, I am well aware of the complexity involved in changing a fuselage width on a series of aircraft that has existed since the early 70s. I do not take that lightly at all. And apparently you completely missed the point of my last statement. So let me repeat it again -

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE FUSELAGE WIDTH OF THE A350 WILL BE INCREASED!!!.

So can we lay this to rest? I guess we are on the same page now. Or is that assumption of mine wrong as well?

-N60659

[Edited 2005-05-20 20:14:27]
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 2:56 am

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 17):
Ok wisasses, how about some specifics.

How much could be shaved off the interior? How thick are the fusalage walls and exactly what could be made thinner without losing stuctual integrity?

Why don't you ask "Honest John" Leahy? I'm sure he'll give you a straight answer.  sarcastic 
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atmx2000
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 3:12 am

Quoting EGGD (Reply 7):
I think everyone else who knows anything about the A350 including possible customers know and knew all along that the fuselage would be the same as the A330. Really, if you want to have a dig at the A350 and Airbus you are going to have to do better than this.

In what way is this a dig at the A350? It's more of a dig at Leahy. But I think a slightly larger fuselage has advantages as Boeing has shown with the 787, as it makes a 9 abreast seating arrangement with reasonable seat width possible. And if Leahy is going to call it an all new plane and say it has improved width, it isn't unreasonable to think that in the context of specific recent contract losses that Airbus has reevaluated the fuselage width.
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DAYflyer
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 3:20 am

The A-350 is a warmed over A-330 with a new wing and engines. Why don't they (Airbus) just shut up and tell people the truth? The may sell a few of them that way. The airlines smell something wrong here and they are not going to order. Need proof? Look at the order book, and the new deal with US Airways.
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 3:36 am

Quoting EGGD (Reply 16):
You don't need to try one more time, you got it wrong the first time. You made an assumption that was wrong and not really justified. Do you really think that Airbus would make modifications to the dimensions of the aircraft itself and only mention it as an 'improvement in width' in an article?

Uh, no he didn't get it wrong. It was a generic comment that I think a majority of people would believe relates to the size of the fuselage. Whether that's true or not doesn't matter - it was left to the reader to interpret, as he didn't make it clear. I interpreted it that way, and I certainly don't care one way or another.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
yeah pretty soon customers are going to see through he BS and call him on it. They may have already..that's why Airbus has lost many big orders this year already.

No offense, but it's getting to the point where you need to put some sort of disclaimer on your posts. After all, I doubt customers are choosing Boeing because of what Leahy does or doesn't say.

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scbriml
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 4:14 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 22):
The A-350 is a warmed over A-330 with a new wing and engines. Why don't they (Airbus) just shut up and tell people the truth? The may sell a few of them that way. The airlines smell something wrong here and they are not going to order. Need proof? Look at the order book, and the new deal with US Airways.

Let's see what Airbus tells us at Paris shall we?  wink 
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Aloha717200
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting EGGD (Reply 14):
Where is the DIRECT reference to the width of the fuselage itself? Due to the lack of context it is safe to assume that the width improvement wasn't anything to do with fuselage witdth. Making the fuselage wider would be an enlargement and not an improvement.

I think you're grasping as straws here.

Leahy let his mouth run off, plain and simple. He said width, that means width. Airbus has openly corrected him. Why would airbus take the trouble to have their spokesman reclarify that the plane has the same A330 cross section, if what Leahy said was entirely correct.

Leahy stumbled. Accept it.
 
Pope
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 6:32 am

Isn't the A350 really an A330 with new engines and some composites? What's the big surprise about the fuselage width?
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aa777jr
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 6:40 am

same pony, different saddle. if it flys, airbus will be even richer.  airplane  +  Smile =  dollarsign 
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Ruscoe
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 6:53 am

As I understand it Airbus are going to use Al-Li to make the internal fuselage frames. Because this type of aluminium is stronger than that currently used, the internal frames will be thinner, hence an increase in internal width, without increasing the outside width.

My bid question about the 350 is if they can cut 8 tonnes from the airframe weight, why not apply that to the 330. A weight reduction like that would make it a killer.

Ruscoe
 
trex8
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 28):
My bid question about the 350 is if they can cut 8 tonnes from the airframe weight, why not apply that to the 330. A weight reduction like that would make it a killer

presumably thats what all the new alloys and structures are doing, despite the heavier engines. , if they jst applied that to the A330, it woudl really be just a warmed over a330 whereas they really want to try make the A350 a little different!
 
Gman94
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 7:48 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 11):
he's talking out of his rear, assuming that since it is the Seattle Times they must be pro Boeing. Anyone who has ever read the paper knows this isn't true, but for an internet expert what would you expect?

Funny that the Boeing fan boys don't get the same words said to them with their equally ridiculous BS.
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Jet-lagged
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 10:03 am

The A330/A340 cabin widths are 208 inches on the inside, and 222 inches on the outside, or 7 inches per 'side'. If they can reduce fuselage width by 1 inch each side, then the seats would probably be the same, but the aisles could be a bit more spacious.
 
zoom1018
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 3:25 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 2):



Quoting Atmx2000 (Thread starter):
"Since December, we improved width, range, seat costs, economics," Leahy was quoted as saying Wednesday to the aviation trade press in Toulouse, France, home of Airbus.

It is weird that he just said "we improved width" .... so what kind of WIDTH was that??? It is really ridiculous!
 
CRJ900
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sat May 21, 2005 6:45 pm

I read somewhere here that the width issue is about the last few rows of the cabin, the A350 fuselage will not taper in as much as the current A3xx widebodies, and will allow more 8-abreast seating in the rear cabin instead of 7-abreast seating. Perhaps the A350 will have a 777-style rear galley as well, allowing for more seats...?

Just my $0.02
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RayChuang
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sun May 22, 2005 2:16 pm

Look, if Airbus is going to keep development costs of the A350 as low as possible they will NOT go to a new widebody fuselage design, mostly because they can use the tooling already in place for the A330/A340 series.
 
Jet-lagged
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sun May 22, 2005 2:33 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 33):
I read somewhere here that the width issue is about the last few rows of the cabin, the A350 fuselage will not taper in as much as the current A3xx widebodies, and will allow more 8-abreast seating in the rear cabin instead of 7-abreast seating.

That is defintely enough excuse for Leahy to make that comment!
 
Glom
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Sun May 22, 2005 7:16 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 34):
Look, if Airbus is going to keep development costs of the A350 as low as possible they will NOT go to a new widebody fuselage design, mostly because they can use the tooling already in place for the A330/A340 series.

But if they're changing the material of the fuselage, wouldn't that require substantial retooling?
 
dazeflight
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RE: A350 Width Same As A330

Mon May 23, 2005 1:32 am

Quoting Zoom1018 (Reply 32):
It is weird that he just said "we improved width" .... so what kind of WIDTH was that??? It is really ridiculous!

Please read the thread. He was talking about the increased interior width. What about it is so hard to get?  banghead 

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