brightcedars
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:18 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 6:41 pm

Now that the A350 design is being refined it seems like Airbus' plan is to produce an all new airplane family that will go head to head with the Boeing 777 but not only. It could very well be that the A350 will be positioned just like the A320 family, offering a series of stretched solutions. One can then imagine that there could be an A350 to replace the A310 and B767-200, one to replace the A300 and B767-300/400, one to replace the A330-200 and one to replace the A330-300 and B777-200s; perhaps even all 777s and A340s!

This would mean that Airbus, after renewing the A320 family, would be capable to offer a comprehensive solution to cover airline needs from 100 to 600 seats by reasonable steps. Only the unlikelihood of an A380 shrink would leave a portion of that range somewhat orphan.

Where Airbus would cover the market with 3 families, Boeing would still need 4 product lines i.e. an all new 737 replacement, the 787, the 777 and something at the top to replace 747-400s if they intend to get a share of that market.

Are you sharing this opinion, do you see it coming, do you think the A350 program will not be that ambitious? Have a go. Thread started!
I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
 
keesje
Posts: 8588
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 6:47 pm

I don't think the A350 will ever be a good replacement for A310, 767-200.

Basicly too big/heavy, just like the A330-200. The 787-3 seems to have better cards there.

Also replacing 777-300ER/A340-500/600 seems unlikely..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
na
Posts: 9128
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 7:02 pm

I fully agree with what Keesje wrote. Plus that a A350 will hardly make a ideal A300 replacement as the A300 is a short-and mediumhaul aircraft. The A350s wings are too big. And a A350 with different wings is a different aircraft.
So the A350 will just be what it is, the replacement of the A330 and A340-300.
 
FlyingInTheSky
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:03 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 9:01 pm

The A350 was introduced when Boeing presented their B787 ,and the main objective for these aircraft is to cover short to medium range or maybe a little longer ,So I can Imagine how the A350 will look like .

I would say it will cover most likely short to medium range replacing the A300/A310/A332 also B737 & B767 .

Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):
Also replacing 777-300ER/A340-500/600 seems unlikely..

Totally agree with that .

My regards ,,,
 
boeingbus
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 12:37 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 9:05 pm

It's easier for Boeing to grow the 787 than Airbus to shrink the 350 to compete w/ the 763 and the replacement for the A300/10.

So no... The A350 may be a bit bigger but only by a few rows...

Cheers

[Edited 2005-05-20 14:24:49]
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 9:11 pm

Airbus always seems to take this approach - intro a plane and then procede to shrink/stretch it, whereas Boeing appears to have learnt that it's best to get the basic frame and stretch the hell out of it.

In terms of what the market wants, Boeing's on the nail with the 787 as a 767/A310/A300 replacement. I suspect the new single aisle design will span the 120-200 seat bracket, enabling a single family to replace the 757 as well as 737s.
 
commavia
Posts: 9623
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 9:13 pm

Now if only an airline would actually buy the A350 without having to be bribed...
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13227
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 9:17 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Now if only an airline would actually buy the A350 without having to be bribed...

Perhaps we'll review this comment after the Paris Air Show?  wink 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 9:25 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Now if only an airline would actually buy the A350 without having to be bribed...

Wait till Be Bourget, there will be other airlines ordering the A350.
Besides I would not call it bribery but this is discussed in a lot of other threads here......
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 9:35 pm

Wait till Be Bourget, there will be other airlines ordering the A350.
Besides I would not call it bribery but this is discussed in a lot of other threads here......


at the end of le bourget, Airbus will have +- 100 confirmed A350 orders... they said that themselves...

seems like an winner to me already, just like the 787
 
commavia
Posts: 9623
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 9:39 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 8):
Besides I would not call it bribery but this is discussed in a lot of other threads here

I would definitely call Airbus giving $250 million to a merging American airline so they can become the launch customer for a market flop of an aircraft "bribery."
 
ap305
Posts: 907
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 4:03 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 9:44 pm

According to media reports some time back there was a specific project meant for the replacement of the a300/a310. This aircraft was known as the p305 and later as the a305. It would have been all new and targeted the short/medium range market. This aircraft would have also spawned an eventual rival rangewise to the 787. I guess Airbus decided it would make more sense to do a long range a/c derived from the a330 first rather than wait and develop a complete all new family.

Regards
Ap305
 
EI321
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 9:56 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Now if only an airline would actually buy the A350 without having to be bribed...

Is it really nessessary to hijack every airbus post with such comments? There are many more threads at the moment where you could have posted this appropriatly. These posts are spoiling perfectly good discussions.
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 10:11 pm

If Boeing can replace everything from the 752 to the 764/772 with the 787 why should Airbus not be able to replace the same range of planes with it's new product?
I often have the impression that many people here think that the 787 will be the last step of aircraft development and nothing will ever be able to beat it nor come close to it.
Reality for sure will look different, 30 years from now airlines will replace them by a new state of the art and unbeatable aircraft.
Considering that you can often hear that the 787 will replace the 772 than it might not take so long until the 787 finds a replacement a/c...

Max
 
keesje
Posts: 8588
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 10:16 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):
I would definitely call Airbus giving $250 million to a merging American airline so they can become the launch customer for a market flop of an aircraft "bribery

public, published, negotiated bribery?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 10:21 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):

I would definitely call Airbus giving $250 million to a merging American airline so they can become the launch customer for a market flop of an aircraft "bribery."

Ever heard about 767 tanker case? If not do some search on the web. Very entertaining and the word "bribe" is very common in this case.
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 10:31 pm

What's the point of replacing the 772 if you can't replace the 773?
 
PM
Posts: 4818
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 10:47 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):
I would definitely call Airbus giving $250 million to a merging American airline so they can become the launch customer for a market flop of an aircraft "bribery."

You can call it whatever you like but the aerospace world is full of buyer/supplier relationships that are less than "free and fair". Remember what happened when El Al wanted A330s? How many planes have GECAS bought that don't have GE/CFM engines? Talking of GECAS, what about their involvement with a number of ailing US airlines? Saudia was about to buy RR Trents for their 777s but then someone in Washington DC made a phone call... As I've said elsewhere, I don't mind people pointing out the distortions in the market. What I don't like is the holier-than-thou attitude from those who believe that only the opposition do such things.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5065
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 10:48 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 8):
Besides I would not call it bribery but this is discussed in a lot of other threads here......

No it's just putting a gun to an airlines head and making them an offer they can't refuse...either their signature will be on it or their brains. Does anyone really think that they would have bought the airplane if they didn't have a real need for exit financing. I guess this is the only way Airbus can sell the A350...if they can't get the order they  cry  and have a  hissyfit  a la AI or they prey upon bankrupt airlines and basically tell them they have to buy it or no mullah.

BTW, I wonder if this can be considered anti-competitive as Airbus has forced US Airways to make Airbus a sole source supplier?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
keesje
Posts: 8588
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 10:58 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):
AI

Now you mention it how would you qualify that deal then?  Wink
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
'Longreach'
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2001 11:36 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 11:13 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):
BTW, I wonder if this can be considered anti-competitive as Airbus has forced US Airways to make Airbus a sole source supplier?

I haven't read much into this deal but to me it sounds clever!
 
Ken777
Posts: 9020
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 11:17 pm

I have a feeling that Airbus will not only announce 350 orders at the Paris Show, but will also announce additional version of the 350. I also believe that they will increase their stated competitive position against the 787. the key is if they will put their money where their mouth is in terms of guaranteed performance when it comes time to write orders.

I believe that the initial 350 was rushed in order to dampen the 787's initial reception and that Airbus has had time to mature their thinking about the design. It should be a better plane than they initially disclosed and it should be reasonably close to the 787 in terms of economy. The challenge will be having a competitive cost per seat, not only in operational areas, but also in purchase price.

While I love the concepts of the 787 I hope Airbus can have a solid plane to compete with. We should see in Paris.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5347
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 11:21 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Now if only an airline would actually buy the A350 without having to be bribed...



Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
Is it really nessessary to hijack every airbus post with such comments? There are many more threads at the moment where you could have posted this appropriatly. These posts are spoiling perfectly good discussions.

Exactly. Sometimes the inflammatory comments completely discredit otherwise valid arguments, and it ruins the conversation for everyone.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):
Does anyone really think that they would have bought the airplane if they didn't have a real need for exit financing.

Well, it's up to US/HP to decide what's best for them. It sounds like they have quite a bit of financial support for the merger, so they probably could have lived without the Airbus deal. I agree that they likely would not have ordered new planes at this time, but if it works for them, why not?

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):
I guess this is the only way Airbus can sell the A350...if they can't get the order they and have a a la AI or they prey upon bankrupt airlines and basically tell them they have to buy it or no mullah.

It's comments like this that make every Boeing supporter (such as myself) look bad. What purpose does it serve to throw statements out like this? They've obviously got a few things up their sleeve for the Paris Air Show, which no one should be surprised by, and they've also sold a good hunk of planes over the past five years that I doubt were all done through bribery.

As much as I like Boeing, it's hard to see how you benefit them or their supporters by making these comments.

-Dave
-Dave
 
PM
Posts: 4818
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 11:25 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):
Does anyone really think that they would have bought the airplane if they didn't have a real need for exit financing. I guess this is the only way Airbus can sell the A350...if they can't get the order they and have a a la AI or they prey upon bankrupt airlines and basically tell them they have to buy it or no mullah.

I hope you will agree that that is not how Airbus sold 3,500 A320s or sold more A300s/A310s/A330s/A340s than Boeing sold 767s/777s... Are you really suggesting that Airbus would invest $6,000,000,000 developing a model that they could only force on airlines? If so, then your prejudices are elbowing aside your common sense.
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 11:26 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
but also in purchase price.

Given that the aircraft is much bigger, I don't see that this is the case except for special deals, which of course are the rule with sales. I don't think the list price of the A350 could be lower than the 787.
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Fri May 20, 2005 11:50 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):
No it's just putting a gun to an airlines head and making them an offer they can't refuse...either their signature will be on it or their brains

They could have asked Boeing for a similar deal. It is their decision to take the offer or look somewhere else for loans. It is nothing but a deal no bribery at all.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):
BTW, I wonder if this can be considered anti-competitive as Airbus has forced US Airways to make Airbus a sole source supplier?

Legally ? No !!
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 12:23 am

Quoting Ap305 (Reply 11):

i can see a reflection of that aircraft in your username.
So as you say, that defunct a/p305 metamorphosed into A350?
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting FlyingInTheSky (Reply 3):
The A350 was introduced when Boeing presented their B787 ,and the main objective for these aircraft is to cover short to medium range or maybe a little longer

The 787 is primarily a long-to-ultra-long-haul aircraft. The 787-3 is a bit of an afterthought.

The A350 is not going to cover the short or medium range.

Quoting FlyingInTheSky (Reply 3):
I would say it will cover most likely short to medium range replacing the A300/A310/A332 also B737 & B767 .

The 737?

The A350 is being positioned to compete against the 787-8, -9, and 777-200ER. It will not be able to replace the A300 or A310. It has already replaced the 767.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):
BTW, I wonder if this can be considered anti-competitive as Airbus has forced US Airways to make Airbus a sole source supplier?

I doubt it, since what you say is incorrect. Airbus hasn't forced US Airways to do anything, nor are they agreeing to be a single source.

N
 
PM
Posts: 4818
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:02 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27):
The A350 ... has already replaced the 767.

Er, a tad premature?
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:10 am

Quoting BrightCedars (Thread starter):
Where Airbus would cover the market with 3 families, Boeing would still need 4 product lines i.e. an all new 737 replacement, the 787, the 777 and something at the top to replace 747-400s if they intend to get a share of that market.



Quoting Glom (Reply 16):
What's the point of replacing the 772 if you can't replace the 773?

A B787-10 will most likely replace the B777-200ER, but not the B777-200LR. What's the point? A B787-10 would have lower manufacturing costs, lower operating costs, and better performance than the B777-200ER.

A B787 with the capacity of the B777-300 would exceed 80 meters. No airport could accomodate it. It would also need a new wing. The B777-300 will be replaced, but not by a B787.

Boeing will eventually replace the B777-300 and the B747 with an all-new large single-deck ETOPS airliner. Then Boeing will have a three aircraft family that spans the full range from 120 to 500 passengers without any gaps. For Airbus to do that, they would need to either shrink the WhaleJet (which would have an unacceptably high CASM) or introduce a fourth family member.
 
blackknight
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:40 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:28 am

Quoting PM (Reply 23):
I hope you will agree that that is not how Airbus sold 3,500 A320s or sold more A300s/A310s/A330s/A340s than Boeing sold 767s/777s... Are you really suggesting that Airbus would invest $6,000,000,000 developing a model that they could only force on airlines? If so, then your prejudices are elbowing aside your common sense.

I am an Engineer and am data driven. Besides the 1st order for 10 how many of the additional or possible additional orders are without Airbus providing funds or money exchanging both ways?
BK
 
PM
Posts: 4818
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:36 am

Quoting BlackKnight (Reply 30):
I am an Engineer and am data driven. Besides the 1st order for 10 how many of the additional or possible additional orders are without Airbus providing funds or money exchanging both ways?

I have no idea. Have you? On the other hand, how much do you know about the financial side of the 787/777 AC deal or - gulp - that Air India deal?
 
PM
Posts: 4818
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:39 am

Quoting BlackKnight (Reply 30):
I am an Engineer and am data driven. Besides the 1st order for 10 how many of the additional or possible additional orders are without Airbus providing funds or money exchanging both ways?

Thinking a bit more about your post, please therefore be good enough to share with us your data as opposed to your assumptions.
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 1:39 am

Quoting BrightCedars (Thread starter):
do you think the A350 program will not be that ambitious?

I dont think it is that ambitious.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):
don't think the A350 will ever be a good replacement for A310, 767-200.

Basicly too big/heavy, just like the A330-200. The 787-3 seems to have better cards there.

Also replacing 777-300ER/A340-500/600 seems unlikely..

I actually agree with you for once. Don't fall out of your chair.
One Nation Under God
 
Rj111
Posts: 3007
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:02 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 2:09 am

Airbus should take a good look at modifying the grandaddy of Airbus designs, the A300. That thing is lighter than the 783! I don't know how costly and difficult it would to update it to modern reliable standards, but i think it's definately worth a good hard look.
 
atlantic
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:09 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 2:34 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Now if only an airline would actually buy the A350 without having to be bribed...

even if it were true... people will buy it and there is unfortunately nothing you can do about it Big grin it must be really hard but stop whining, ok?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
Is it really nessessary to hijack every airbus post with such comments?

While Commavia's comments were not the best put, the same thing happens in Boeing threads as well.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
These posts are spoiling perfectly good discussions.

Perfectly good discussions or perfectly pathetic preenings and flat out fallacy over an aircraft that is already behind before it has gotten started?

Quoting PM (Reply 23):
A300s/A310s/A330s/A340s than Boeing sold 767s/777s

If you want to get hypertechnical on that issue, Boeing marketed the MD-11 for a time and sold a number of those post-MDC merger. Also, they own all rights to the DC-10 series of aircraft.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27):
The 787 is primarily a long-to-ultra-long-haul aircraft.

That can very easily fill the medium-long haul mission of the 767/A300/A310

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27):
The 787-3 is a bit of an afterthought.

Not really, Boeing announced the 783 from the start. It is perhaps the only competitorless aircraft on the market today (if you say the 747 and A380 compete)
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
JAM747
Posts: 524
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:17 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 2:40 am

No matter what preference of a/c builder we might have it is good for every one that Airbus and Boeing are building two competitive models. The competition only help to bring out the best ,safest and most efficient for air travel. Plus if one is a real aviation enthusiast he will appreciate the good points of an aircraft no matter who makes it and having competition just makes it more interesting. 30 yrs from now we will be talking about these planes the same way we talk about 707s vrs DC8s . History will tell which one of these designs were more successful.
 
tockeyhockey
Posts: 880
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:57 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 22):
Exactly. Sometimes the inflammatory comments completely discredit otherwise valid arguments, and it ruins the conversation for everyone.

that is such BS! if you don't like what someone is saying, just ignore him. make your points and ignore the people you don't think are posting appropriately.

why is everyone the posting police in this place?

(i guess i'm guilty of it this one time...)
 
ap305
Posts: 907
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 4:03 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 3:41 am

Aseem wrote:"So as you say, that defunct a/p305 metamorphosed into A350?".


Metamorphosed in the sense that it became the airbus response to the 787/yellowstone which was what the a305 was supposed to be. The a350 in its current guise does not cover the 787-3 but this may change in the future. The a350 shares its fuselage diameter with the a300 and a smaller wing could result in a formidable regional aircraft in the same mould as the a300. From an enthusiaists point of view an all new aircraft would have been great but if Airbus can get maximum result with minimum effort then good luck to them. The design of the a350 is not yet frozen so who knows what changes may lie ahead?. Prima facie the pioneering spirit we saw with the a320 no longer seems to be there but we have to remember that Airbus was the chaser then and not the chasee. The a350 may very well be the best response given the position that Airbus is in now. Only time will tell if they got it right.

Regards
Ap305
 
Areopagus
Posts: 1327
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 12:31 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 3:50 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27):
The 787-3 is a bit of an afterthought.

Oh, come on. That's like saying the 330 is an afterthought to the 340.
 
PanAmDC10
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:03 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 3:52 am

Why don't Airbus and Boeing just merge, or at least work together, and stop all this arguing amd name calling? It would be a far stronger company.
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 4:07 am

Quoting Ap305 (Reply 39):

thanks for a great reply. In fact airbus has been too involved with their prestigious A380 project. Now that is off the ground, we might see some frantic activity with regards to A350. And, as you say that the design is not frozen yet, we might just see some more streamlining and use of composites.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
NYC777
Posts: 5065
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 4:22 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27):
I doubt it, since what you say is incorrect. Airbus hasn't forced US Airways to do anything, nor are they agreeing to be a single source.

From the US AIrways - AWA Press Release:

"To rationalize international flying, the merged company will work with Airbus to transition to an all-Airbus international fleet of A330 aircraft and, beginning in 2011, A350 aircraft. "

Sounds like a single source to me.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 4:27 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 43):

Uresh,
so Airbus is conquering Boeing land..good for them after months of ranting about AI and AC..
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
blackknight
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:40 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 4:49 am

Quoting PM (Reply 32):
Thinking a bit more about your post, please therefore be good enough to share with us your data as opposed to your assumptions.

Do a search there are many links posted for various news agencies. Bottom line which is either right or wrong, there is a whole lot more to these deals than what meets the press or is printed. I would buy a plane who's performance was lacking if I got special financing, deals on maintenance, my airline got special reviews for purchasing restricted slots in crowed airports, if I was given an advance to help cash flow to prevent bankruptcy and the general elimination of my company there would not be an option. Airbus may have created a unique method of selling aircraft one which is not based upon the best aircraft but the best package deal. No links needed for this information.

Airbus will win at any costs and is driving the industry to do the same. My fear is that the industry will not know when to say enough. Also if they do not play the game ethically then what else would they do to win? Winning at all costs may have won Airbus the current title of Largest Airplane Manufacturer but will it keep them there? When will it escalate to countries fighting with each other? How long can this fight continue until it effects all other commerce?

Lets look outside the box of aviation for a moment what precedence does this activity set? Do we all want the negotiation of airliners done by the heads of state? Airbus is making this fight not personal but as a nation (EU) against all other nations. Do we think that China will not try making airliners in the future? How about Japan with all there new knowledge? What will the sales of airliners include in the future? Toys, tools, TV's, food, aid, and airliner packages from one country to the next. Just because you can win at all costs does not mean you should or that you will not hurt yourself.

Aviation may never be the same.

Yes hats of to Airbus for their creative marketing techniques for the moment they are kings.
BK
 
dan2002
Posts: 2024
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:11 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting PM (Reply 23):

I hope you will agree that that is not how Airbus sold 3,500 A320s or sold more A300s/A310s/A330s/A340s than Boeing sold 767s/777s... Are you really suggesting that Airbus would invest $6,000,000,000 developing a model that they could only force on airlines? If so, then your prejudices are elbowing aside your common sense.

And I hope you agree that Boeing has sold more 737s than all the 'Busses combined!


-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
brightcedars
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:18 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 5:26 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 43):
Sounds like a single source to me

Sounds like single source for... hem... International fleet.
I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
 
astuteman
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 5:40 am

Quoting BlackKnight (Reply 45):
Winning at all costs may have won Airbus the current title of Largest Airplane Manufacturer but will it keep them there

Here we go again!
Airbus made $450M after tax + interest ($800M pre-tax) in the FIRST QUARTER of 2005. "All costs"?????
 
commavia
Posts: 9623
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

A350 Tackles 767, 777, 787; Replaces 300, 310 & 330

Sat May 21, 2005 5:54 am

I would just like to state for the record that I was not making my comments as a blanket statement on Airbus fortunes and success or failure, nor was I saying that Airbus bribed any other airlines or that it is their corporate practice, as I don't believe either of these things to be true. That being said, I still fully believe that what Airbus is doing with the new USAirways right now is absolutely legalized bribery. I am not knocking it or criticizing it, as I think it was actually very prudent and clever of Airbus to do, and made very good business sense for Airbus, I am simply calling it as I see it -- as bribery to advance Airbus' stated business goals (i.e., getting an entire airplane program off the ground).

Who is online