bahadir
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Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Fri May 20, 2005 11:53 pm

Turkish NTV reports that Dutch and Turkish authorities are almost done with their checks in Istanbul and the ban should be lifted by German and Swiss authorities in the matter of hours. (their words)
Earthbound misfit I
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sat May 21, 2005 6:28 am

well, we've seen the reaction from the A.net community and the media, let's see the reaction from the tour companies that sub contract with onur and the tourists.
From my point of view, turkish people will be indifferent about these events for 2 main reason.
1. They aren't cultured in aviation at all when compared to other more well informed countries

and

2. There really isn't much choice, even though there are quite a few LCCs in turkey, they all aim for a different market, so Onur will still have some loyal customers, thanks to their main base tour operator as well
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
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bully707
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sat May 21, 2005 7:22 am

I am still certain that Onur's problems started with the wet-lease of not so well kept aircraft....

I hope they recover!!!!!

Bully
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
fraT
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm

Pilotaydin,
you are completely right. I think that the percentage of Turkish pax will rise.
The recent banning will have an effect on the German tour operators as a lot of pax will ask their travel agent to fly another carrier. That will probably result in less flights to Germany. I hope they will use this reduction in capacity to get rid of these obscure leased A/C. Then they have a chance to rebound. Of course the authorities will continue to watch them very closely. So they really need to keep their act together.
 
mauriceb
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sat May 21, 2005 5:37 pm

i actually hope they don't return to AMS, with theire A300's... only with A321's wich are better maintained etc i mean, if it goes really wrong with the A300 at AMS, the people will point to the government who ''lifted up'' the ban...
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sat May 21, 2005 5:40 pm

Should ONUR obtain within the next couple of days their rights to operate flights to Germany,Netherlands and France back - it basically would be the confirmation that the halt was more political than structural.
An airline with comletely rotten maintenance or security operation can't turn arround within two weeks their proceedures to complay with EEC and JAR requirements.So if the inspectors of the aviation authorities of these countries have found enough evidence in Istanbul base that ONUR complies to their standards - the whole matter has been blown out of proportion .
Yes there were evidently shortcommings in the past - but as indicated extensively on this forum,most of the incidents were related to backup aircraft.
Other incidents related to A320 operations ( mainly proceeduruals related to missing papers,assurances and non-updated flight documents ) should not be repeated and I am sure the operational management of ONUR will watch the strict compliance to international safety standards in the future very strictly.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
emrecan
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sat May 21, 2005 6:47 pm

Bravo to Onur Air !!

in 9 days they solved(!) all the problems...
 
MH017
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sat May 21, 2005 6:51 pm

Wonder what TK will think of this, as they have scheduled extra flights and bigger capacity on the AMS route lately, even A340's  Wow!

Will they return their business back to OHY ?
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
iakobos
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sat May 21, 2005 7:39 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
it basically would be the confirmation that the halt was more political than structural

Sorry but you have obviously missed some posts. (look Onur-Switzerland)
The issue came to light on A.net only recently but in the records of several civ av authorities this goes back several years.
In NL Onur received twice a "last warning" prior to the last events, in Belgium, very recently, two Onur a/c were showed the red card and could not return (to Belgium) until problems were fixed.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
An airline with comletely rotten maintenance or security operation can't turn arround within two weeks their proceedures to complay with EEC and JAR requirements.So if the inspectors of the aviation authorities of these countries have found enough evidence in Istanbul base that ONUR complies to their standards - the whole matter has been blown out of proportion

It may look blown out of proportion if you read only A.net or the media, nothing heard and then suddenly a ban. The story is very different.

If the ban is lifted, and I hope for them it will be soon, it also means that the Turkish civ av authorities will do their part.
I have not seen this mentioned on A.net, but clearly Tr civ av played (by ommission) a significant role in Onur's problems.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sat May 21, 2005 8:52 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bjorn van der Velpen
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © HansAir


Nice Livery.
Whats their Fleet like.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
iakobos
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sat May 21, 2005 10:21 pm

You can find all details at http://www.onurair.com.tr/eng/filo.asp
 
1stspotter
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sat May 21, 2005 10:25 pm

@MH017:
THY operated a couple of Airbus A340 flights to Amsterdam instead of the regular A310 because one of the THY A310 Freighters was in maintenance. This A310F normally operates to Maastricht. The A340 was used to transport the cargo which is normally transported by the A310 Freighter.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 12:25 am

24 Aircraft Fleet is quite Large.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 6):
Bravo to Onur Air !!

in 9 days they solved(!) all the problems...



Quoting FraT (Reply 3):
The recent banning will have an effect on the German tour operators as a lot of pax will ask their travel agent to fly another carrier. That will probably result in less flights to Germany.

Yes FraT, Onur Air already lost the German market. Even if the ban will be lifted you wouldn`t see much German passengers on Onur Air flights. The last days, the German newspapers and TV stations destroyed every trust by German travelers in this airline.

But perhaps there is a miracle like it happened to Spantax in the 70th. They lost some aircrafts in crashes, but it needed years before they were bankrupt.

Axel
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 3:40 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 13):
The last days, the German newspapers and TV stations destroyed every trust by German travelers in this airline.

...by journalist that in most cases can't tell the difference between and Airbus A320, a Boeing 737 and a Tupolev....
Why systematically destroy an airline that has had problems but never any fatal or major incident,with the exeption of the Groningen aborted take-off.
I am one of the very few who do maintain the idea about an economic-political background of this affair and are not afraid to defend my opinion!
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 4:24 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 14):
Why systematically destroy an airline that has had problems but never any fatal or major incident

So I guess it's better to wait until they have one??? Should (god forbid) something tragic happen, most likely you'd be among the first ones pointing fingers and bitching about the authorities not acting soon enough.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 14):
am one of the very few who do maintain the idea about an economic-political background of this affair

Exactly. Very few.
 
iakobos
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 4:30 am

In view of the inspection data throughout the last years, subsequent warnings from civ av authorities and a clear and unfortunate confirmation of shortcomings, I cannot subscribe to the economico-political background to the ban.

Perhaps you could tell us Beaucaire who would benefit (short and longer term) from the (temporary) ban ?
 
legacy135
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 4:33 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
Should ONUR obtain within the next couple of days their rights to operate flights to Germany,Netherlands and France back - it basically would be the confirmation that the halt was more political than structural.

I think exactly the opposite. I am afraid that they will be released again for political reasons. This would be real bad and makes the whole work of inspectors and authorities just look like foolish.

I honestly do hope, that Onur Air took care about their obvious problem with paper-related objectives and sends the better maintained part of the fleet into Middle Europe until those aircrafts which were subject to complaints have been brought into acceptable technical conditions.
 
clipperno1
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 13):
Even if the ban will be lifted you wouldn`t see much German passengers on Onur Air flights. The last days, the German newspapers and TV stations destroyed every trust by German travelers in this airline.

That's what I keep thinking all the time. Right know the average german is putting the name "Onur Air" in the same ranks as "Birgenair". The name is almost un-marketable right now. There are german carriers like Condor and Aero Flight who are dying to boost their capacity utilization and who will be happy to fill the spot for future flights.

Most german Travellers like to see that "operated by a german carrier" line on their holiday itineraries. Even when the flight is operated by SunExpress, the travel agencies like to print "operated by a Condor subsidiary" on that thing.

Now even those holiday makers looking for "5*-all-inclusive-hotel for €400/week" holidays in Turkey will pay attention to that line.
"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 16):
Perhaps you could tell us Beaucaire who would benefit (short and longer term) from the (temporary) ban ?

Destroy the faith of european passengers into turkish carriers could be the obvious strategy.In France ,after the disaster of Sharm El Cheik, Egyptian charter-airlines have a hard time .
Of course would german,dutch or french charter-airlines benefit from the dissapearance of ONUR -only very blue-eyed don't see the potential between Germany and Turkey.

Today - read the article from Reuters- german inspectors found - all of a sudden - nothing wrong in ONUR fleet - how stupid can one be not to understand the name of the game....
http://www.reuters.fr/locales/c_news...ws&localeKey=fr_FR&storyID=8559181

[Edited 2005-05-21 21:59:12]
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
legacy135
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 5:04 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 19):
Destroy the faith of European passengers into Turkish carriers could be the obvious strategy.

As far as I know does Lufthansa hold a major stack in SunExpress. With such a strategies they would also ruin a business that was built during a long time business relation. For the customer it would be then a Turkish Airline as all the others. The objective was never "Turkish companies in general" it was "Onur Air". Furthermore there is quite a possibility that one day Turkey will be a member of the EU. So it really doesn't make any sense to me to blame Turkey in general or to try and bring them out of business or whatever. So I can't believe that this was the strategie.
 
emrecan
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 5:13 am

What changed in Onur Air in 9 days???

Why will they the ban lifted??

Don`t do it.. Stop Onur Air flights.. Onur Air is not safe(!)
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 5:13 am

"Après 20 heures de réunions depuis jeudi, la délégation néerlandaise n'a constaté aucune anomalie concrète et rentrera vendredi, précise Onur Air dans un communiqué.

La délégation allemande n'a pas trouvé de preuves d'erreurs ou de négligences lors des inspections de la flotte de 26 avions, poursuit le communiqué."

That means neither the dutch nor the german inspectors found any evidence of bad maintenance on the 26 aircraft of ONUR...
So why all of a sudden ther is no evidence if since three weeks everybody confirms the aircraft are a public danger !

Regarding SunExpress it is true that the airline is partly owned by Lufthansa and Turkish Airlines and -in Germany at least- many travellers associate SunExpress with Lufthansa.So Su Express would - other than Turkish Airlines- be less targeted by any "anti-turkish "propaganda..
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
LJ
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 5:26 am

Quoting Bahadir (Thread starter):
Turkish NTV reports that Dutch and Turkish authorities are almost done with their checks in Istanbul and the ban should be lifted by German and Swiss authorities in the matter of hours. (their words)

Well we're 24 hours later and still no sign the ban will be lifted (it looks like all Onur flights of May 22nd are again cancelled).

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 17):
I think exactly the opposite. I am afraid that they will be released again for political reasons. This would be real bad and makes the whole work of inspectors and authorities just look like foolish.

Remember the fact that Mr Erdogan (Prime Minister of Turkey) decided to lobby on behalf of Onur on a recent EU summit (and Mr. Schroder who said that they'll fix the problem soon).
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 22):
That means neither the dutch nor the german inspectors found any evidence of bad maintenance on the 26 aircraft of ONUR...

The German Spiegel-online says today:

[quote=Während das heimische Luftfahrtbundesamt genauere Angaben zu den Sicherheitsmängeln verweigert, zeigten sich die niederländischen Behörden gegenüber dem Fachblatt offenbar auskunftsfreudiger. Auslöser für die Sperre war dort ein Vorfall am 10. Mai, bei dem ein Airbus A310 von Antalya mit defekter Schubumkehr Richtung Holland startete. Einige Tage zuvor musste ein Onur-Jet am Amsterdamer Flughafen Schiphol kurzfristig umkehren, weil Triebwerksprobleme auftraten.

Die Niederländer werfen der türkischen Airline zudem vor, angemietete Lockheed-Tristar-Jets einer jordanischen Firma mit Sitz in Gibraltar eingesetzt zu haben, die in Sierra Leone und Kirgisien zugelassen wurden und erhebliche Sicherheitsmängel gehabt haben sollen.[/quote]

While the domestic Federal Office of Aviation (The German FAA) refuses more exact data to the safety lack, the Netherlands authorities showed up obviously more information to a newspaper (a industry information service called: "Flugpost"). Reason for the ban was an incident on 10 May, at which an Airbus A310 von Antalya with defective thrustreverser started to Holland. Some days before a Onur jet at the Amsterdamer airport Schiphol had to turn around, because engine problems arose. Also the Dutchmen accused the Turkish airline that they had rented Lockheed Tristar jets of a Jordanian company with seat in Gibraltar which became certified in Sierra Leone and Kirgisia which had substantial lack in safety.

Axel

[Edited 2005-05-21 22:45:33]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
clipperno1
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 22):
That means neither the dutch nor the german inspectors found any evidence of bad maintenance on the 26 aircraft of ONUR...



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 19):
Today - read the article from Reuters- german inspectors found - all of a sudden - nothing wrong in ONUR fleet - how stupid can one be not to understand the name of the game....

Well could it be they just inspected the actual fleet of Onur Air and not those "sketchy" L1011s they contracted over the last months?
"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 24):
Auslöser für die Sperre war dort ein Vorfall am 10. Mai, bei dem ein Airbus A310 von Antalya mit defekter Schubumkehr Richtung Holland startete

ONUR never used any A310......
True that the L-1010 has had bad maintenance but the plane was not from ONUR...
Their fault was nervertheless that they used the Lockheed instead of cancelling the lease - that was a clear error of ONUR - but it did not imply their own fleet...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
jmc757
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 6:00 am

It amazes me that some poeple still belive there is political reasons behind this. Iakabos, throughout this discussion has posted factual information about specific faults found aboard Onur Aircraft, and with their operating procedures. This information is i the public domain and spans over the last year and further.

One springs to mind is partially in-op emergency lighting. Ok, doesn't mean the plane is going to fall out the sky, but its a NO-GO item. Unless your Onur Air of course. Safe?
 
LJ
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 26):
Their fault was nervertheless that they used the Lockheed instead of cancelling the lease - that was a clear error of ONUR - but it did not imply their own fleet...

Unfortunately the rest of the issues did involve their own aircraft....

BTW The A310 is an error of the reporter as it was an A300 (but that's something everyone already knew).
 
legacy135
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:06 pm

RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 6:07 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 26):
True that the L-1010 has had bad maintenance but the plane was not from ONUR...

This is true, but they were sending paying passengers, buying a Onur Air ticket on this mysterious planes.
Look, I can tell you from my personal experience that in aviation - more than in any other business - making a deal is most over all taking the responsibility for somebody. This means, when Onur Air sells me a ticket, they have a transport agreement with me. They have now my money and will need to provide me in time the kind of transport we agreed on when they sold me this ticket. If they show up then with a plane of any "Crash and Crisis" or "Never Come Back Airline" they basically broke this transport agreement. I think I don't need to mention that they will have to take the full responsibility for anything resulting from such a subcharter. Everybody is in those aspects free to risk his license. If he wants he can do..... In this aspect it is a completely unbearable behavior of Onur Air to contract those TriStars and a complete neglicence. Onur Air made the deal for this flight, Onur Air got the permits for the flight, so regardless who they send to do it, they will be the first one being responsible for in the chain that will start.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 6:11 am

I agree on this aspect of the negligence of ONUR - they made a mistake and nobody can deny that!
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
LJ
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 6:23 am

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 29):
In this aspect it is a completely unbearable behavior of Onur Air to contract those TriStars and a complete neglicence.

And it was very very stupid as the touroperators which send their customers onto Onur weren't happy. Corendon (the largest touroperator selling holidays to Turkey) quickly announced that "their" pax weren't on the L1011s and that they would have never allowed it. I wonder what the touroperators who did have customers onboard the L1011s said to Onur..... However, I must admit, nobody talks about the 767 they leased from an Italian operator..

BTW in Onur defence the Sierra Leone L1011 wasn't suppose to do the flight to Antalya, but was a replacement for a Jordan registered L1011 of the same company which was announced the day before.
 
do328jet
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 6):
Bravo to Onur Air !!

in 9 days they solved(!) all the problems...

I cant` t believe it. Safety comes first and I do hope that the authorities will not change their minds due to any political pressure and give Onur Air back the permit too early.

If something happens with a turkish holiday airline due to a lack of propper maintenance, it will be a blow for the turkish tourism industry.
 
iakobos
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 7:20 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 19):

Today - read the article from Reuters- german inspectors found - all of a sudden - nothing wrong in ONUR fleet - how stupid can one be not to understand the name of the game....

Talking about faith Beaucaire....the press announcement is from Onur itself and Reuters article is relaying exactly the same announcement.
Note: it is also Onur's boss who declares that everything is based on a single incident.
Nice try...

The publicly available database of incidents running over a long period of time is totally unequivocal, blue eyes or other.
I have provided a list of all major infringements found by the Dutch CAA for all airline operators, including Dutch, during the year 2004. (note: 2004)
In your opinion, is this fabricated, in concert of course with German, French and Swiss CAAs and to a lesser extent Belgian CAA ?

I reiterate my opinion that there is basically nothing wrong with Onur, except it looks like an airline that has to much workload for its human resources AND that is not helped by its own CAA !
I am also of the opinion that the Dutch in Istanbul were very concerned at the obvious lack of control by the Turkish authorities, the IVW was not there to visit Onur (that is not in their prerogatives) but to discuss the implementation (or lack of) of SANA inspections in the framework of the ECAC.
(remember that for 4 consecutive years, the Turkish CAA did not conduct one single inspection)
 
OHLHD
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 3:51 pm

Is the ban now lifted or not?
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Sun May 22, 2005 5:21 pm

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 34):
Is the ban now lifted or not?

It's not lifted as of 11AM today. Nothing on the IVW website (who have to waive the ban) and nothing in the Dutch media. Moreover all of todays flights are still cancelled.
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Tue May 24, 2005 3:30 am

The Dutch CAA (IVW) said that it deosn't expect the ban will be lifted this week. The IVW also mentioned that the recent inspection did confirm what the IVW earlier discovered in The Netherlands and resulted in a ban for Onur. The IVW held talks today (together with the other CAA's who banned Onur and the Turkish Ministry of Traffic) about the Onur ban. Initially everyone expected the ban to be lifted but the IVW has decided otherwise (depsite a claim from an expert hired by Onur who said that the ban was unfounded).

Article in Dutch
http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=8639
 
iakobos
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Tue May 24, 2005 3:34 am

Update 23 May - 17:00Z

Dutch, French, German and Swiss CAA gathered today at IVW's offices in Hoofddorp (a stone throw from Schiphol).
The main purpose was to discuss a plan submitted by Onur Air aiming at improving their (internal) company procedures.
IVW's boss declared that the measures proposed by Onur are a step in the right direction.
 
Boogyjay
Posts: 436
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Tue May 24, 2005 4:56 am

YAHOOOOOOO ! My first post here.  bitelip 

Let's dive in this serious thread:

I often fly to Istanbul and before this ban, I've never questioned the safety of Onur Air's a/c. I must admit I always flew on their A321.

However, this has not always been my feeling with other Turkish carriers, even TK.
I used to fly Pegasus and I didn't feel 100% safe in their old B737 (however I don't remember why specifically), but this was before they get their B738 .
And compared to TK, Onur Air appeared to be safer when I flew TK's old A310 on which one of the "canoe" flap track fairing part was falling apart  eek  . It was hanging in the air and I still wonder how we didn't lose it during the flight. Not to mention the not-closing overhead bins or broken seats (you namely had a flat bed business class type seat in Eco!) even if these are not directly related to the safety of the a/c.

My last trip to IST was in Dec'04 and I came back with FreeBird. I can tell you that their MD82 (?) had a hard time landing at CDG: the pilot pushed the throttle just enough to make the plane glide 5-10 m above the runway and then set it to idle, hence we glided on 10's of meters and fell on the runway like a rock, opening the overhead bins with the tourists' Christmas gifts falling on people.  fight 
The brakes were probably not well maintained too as it sounded like the pads were above their limit of utilization (like on a car when all the material has been used and the metal of the pad rubs on the disc).
I also had the chance to get the emergency exit seat and I was very surprised when just after airborne I felt water on my arm (it was raining outside): water was coming from the emergency exit door. During the 3 hour flight, I also froze as I had air flow coming from outside through the door joints.  cold 

Although I fly several time a year for 20 year now, I don't pretend to be an expert in a/c safety, these are just the feeling and experiences I had with my flights to Turkey. So all of this to say that if Onur Air has to be banned, others might have to as well. And I am sure this also applies for other countries and carriers.
Onur Air is probably not completely clean, especially with the paperworks. Hence it has to be banned. But the rules should apply equally to everyone and I think that banning unsafe a/c specifically with a global warning to the company for the paperworks issues would have been a better move. The "it's unfair" argument would not have arised from the turkish side.

------------

Quoting ClipperNo1 (Reply 18):
There are german carriers like Condor and Aero Flight who are dying to boost their capacity utilization and who will be happy to fill the spot for future flights.

Do you mean some german carriers will benefit from this ban? I wonder if that is true as it was one of the main argument of the turkish side for saying it was a political decision and as previoulsy, other A.netters said other carriers would not gain anything from this ban (no capacity).

Thank you.


BoogyJay
 
bennett123
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Tue May 24, 2005 6:11 am

Beaucaire

Perhaps you can remind me of the cause of the B737 crash at Sharm.
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Tue May 24, 2005 6:05 pm

Germany, Switzerland, France and The Netherlands will not lift their ban on Onur Air in the next few days. The director of the Dutch authorities said this this morning with an interview on Dutch Radio 1. "There's currently no reason why we should lift the ban" she said. She also said that "our inspectors found exactly the same defects on planes and faults within the airline as at airports around Europe". "It's now up to the inspectors of Germany, France, Switzerland and ours to present their next findings". Helma Nepperus did had something positive "Onur Air is on the right track with their steps, but they need to do more". She also warned that the ban can be extended if the authorities aren't convinced about Onur Air.

So, it looks like Onur Air isn't expected anytime soon in these four countries.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 22):
That means neither the Dutch nor the German inspectors found any evidence of bad maintenance on the 26 aircraft of ONUR...
So why all of a sudden there is no evidence if since three Weeks everybody confirms the aircraft are a public danger !

alright, it seems that there needs to be some clarification on what the Dutch inspectors found here in The Netherlands and in Turkey:

* One A300 still in service, while it needs heavy maintenance according to it's maintenance log, flying with one defective door and other malfunctions.

* Structural neglect of light maintenance works on all of their planes. Many small defects on their planes like broken water-supply, defective galley's, jammed toilets etc.

* Crew rest, Onur Air doesn't gives it's crews enough time to rest between flights. Also their working days are to long.

* At least one flight that was on it's way to the Netherlands wasn't loaded properly, creating damage to the gear. The inspectors also witnessed this in Turkey for a flight bound in Turkey.

* Onur Air only looks to the cheapest leases when they need extra capacity. They don't have the safety of their passengers as priority number 1.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!  wave 
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Tue May 24, 2005 9:49 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 39):
Perhaps you can remind me of the cause of the B737 crash at Sharm.

listed is the link of the official accident -report as filed by the egyptian authorities and approved by the french department foe aviation accident investigation.
http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/2004/su-f040103pa/pdf/su-f040103pa.pdf

it seems a malfunctioning of the autopilot system if you read the cockpit voice-recorder section printed in the first section of the report.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
bennett123
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Wed May 25, 2005 5:43 am

I am having problems with the link.

Surely if the Autopilot malfunctions, then the pilot can switch it off.
 
AMSSFO
Posts: 912
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Wed May 25, 2005 8:06 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 42):
I am having problems with the link.

might be related to the fact that it is a 431 page file....

But you wouldn't find the cause of the accident in the report, anyway. It is just a factual report, no conclusions.
It was stated at publication of this report that the final report will be ready around June.
 
Sabena332
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RE: Onur Ban Is To Be Lifted

Wed May 25, 2005 8:12 am

Please continue the discussion here:
Onur Air Allowed To Fly Again (by OO-VEG May 24 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!

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