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LN-MOW
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Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 2:14 am

Bankrupcy court have authorized go-ahead for ATA to get 767-300's.

http://docs.bmccorp.net/ATA/docs/insb_1-04-bk-19866_2217.pdf
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 2:17 am

will these becoming from Big Al's used airplane lot or from some more traditional outlet Big grin
 
Kahala777
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 2:23 am

Quoting LN-MOW (Thread starter):
Bankrupcy court have authorized go-ahead for ATA to get 767-300's.

A dying airline gets widebodies? Oh, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern... all to familiar!

Regards - Kahala777
 
jjbiv
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 2:35 am

I don't believe they have found any specific tails of interest yet. The order provides ATA's (mis-)management permission to execute lease and financing agreements if satisfactory aircraft can be found. This is, more or less, a formal codification of what has been known for some time now. I wouldn't expect 767s to be on the property anytime soon.

joe
 
jacobin777
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 2:36 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 2):

A dying airline gets widebodies? Oh, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern... all to familiar!

aside from the fact TZ have full support from one of the best managed air carriers in the world...WN...

which of course, might not mean a darn thing, but they have a better safety net than the mentioned carriers..

[Edited 2005-05-20 19:37:30]
"Up the Irons!"
 
Kahala777
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 2:38 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
aside from the fact TZ have full support from one of the best managed air carriers in the world...WN...

Both of which can now be associated with Wal Mart, Econolodge, and Greyhound!


Regards - Kahala777
 
jacobin777
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 2:41 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 5):
Both of which can now be associated with Wal Mart, Econolodge, and Greyhound!

I don't think WN ever associated themselves with the likes of SQ, BA, etc.
"Up the Irons!"
 
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flying_727
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 2:45 am

Just looked at ATA's fleet on the website, and the 737-300 and -500 seatmaps are on there, when do they begin service?

flying_727
On ATA, You're On Vacation
 
Kahala777
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6):
I don't think WN ever associated themselves with the likes of SQ, BA, etc.

Southwest and ATA, are both good products for their niche markets. The hiring standards, quality standards, and performance standards of TZ/WN are not on a high par, as they are for HP/US. You cannot compare TZ/WN to US/HP.. It would be like comparing Omaha(TZ/WN), to Los Angeles(HP/US)!

Look, this merger between US/HP will effect three airlines the most. Those airlines being Southwest, ATA, United, and Jet Blue. Isnt it funny that the low cost airlines, are now having the tables turned. Overnight, HP/US are triple the size and reach of Southwest Airlines, and in effect now being able to challenge Southwest Airlines.

Regards - Kahala777
 
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flying_727
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
HP/US are triple the size and reach of Southwest Airlines, and in effect now being able to challenge Southwest Airlines.

I'm not so sure the merger will give SWA a run for its money. Southwest has been doing the low cost thing for a long time, and is the only one out of UAL, HP, US, and TZ to not have been in Bankruptcy. I think SWA will have to work hard, but I don't think they'll have to try as hard as people are making it out to be.

flying_727
On ATA, You're On Vacation
 
drerx7
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 3:00 am

These 767s will undoubtedly be acquired to replace the L10s on the military contracts. When do they and the 737 classics come on board?
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 3:03 am

Overnight, HP/US are triple the size and reach of Southwest Airlines, and in effect now being able to challenge Southwest Airlines.

What are you on about?

Triple the size and a million miles away from the likes of WN. Bloated and unprofitable, bailed out by the drug dealer selling them the drugs. Get real!
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 3):
I don't believe they have found any specific tails of interest yet.

Then they have not looked at the pool of their own FA's cloely enough yet. Big grin

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 10):
These 767s will undoubtedly be acquired to replace the L10s on the military contracts

Rats. More of my beloved L1011 going to the desert to collect dust.
One Nation Under God
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 3:15 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
Look, this merger between US/HP will effect three airlines the most. Those airlines being Southwest, ATA, United, and Jet Blue.

Looks like you need to learn how to count  Smile.

Seriously, how exactly will they be challenging Southwest? Nothing has changed other than a name. They already have two-class products, FF miles, code-shares with other carriers, etc. The same hubs, the same (actually less) planes, the same people. I know the leadership is changing, but I think it's a little too early to kiss Southwest's success goodbye.

But thanks for your objectivity Sad.

-Dave
-Dave
 
petazulu
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 3:17 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):

Dude, what are you smoking over there? Pass it on  Smile

"Tables are turned", "triple the size?".

Do you think those idiotic union employees in PHL and other locations are going to go for the Customer first, everyone pitch attitude of WN? LOL!

I don't think so.
I am not big fan of WN myself, but inject a little dose of reality into your thought stream.
 
F4N
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
Quoting LN-MOW (Thread starter):
Bankrupcy court have authorized go-ahead for ATA to get 767-300's.

A dying airline gets widebodies? Oh, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern... all to familiar!

Regards - Kahala777

Kahala777:

Don't forget US Airbusways and the A350....

regards,

F4N
 
jacobin777
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
Overnight, HP/US are triple the size and reach of Southwest Airlines, and in effect now being able to challenge Southwest Airlines.

HP/US have A LOT of slashing to do before their cost structure even remotely resembles WN's cost structure.....

mergers usually don't work so I'm still skeptical of this scenerio.......while this has been an obvious improvement for UA..i can't say the same for HP....only time will tell..

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
You cannot compare TZ/WN to US/HP.

sure, at the very least, one can compare UA to WN...after all...WN is making UA's cake and eating it too!
"Up the Irons!"
 
Mexicana757
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 6:11 am

Interesting to see that ATA is getting 767s. I think this will save them some money fuel by replacing th L1011s with the 767s.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
Overnight, HP/US are triple the size and reach of Southwest Airlines, and in effect now being able to challenge Southwest Airlines

Umm I think nothing has changed. Basically HP/US are flying the same routes as they did last week. I don't see how this affects WN. America West/ US Airways are the only ones affecting themselves. They now have to figure out how to cut their operating structure and start making money as one airline. A lot of homework in front of them.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 7:24 am

How many B-767s do they need? 5-7, I would think, don't they fly that many L-1011-500s now? Maybe they can swing a great deal from Boeing for new B-767300ERs or even B-767400ERs?

ATA will survive Chapter 11. They have WN working with them and they are also one of the biggest Military Charter Airlines.
 
Kahala777
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 7:31 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
while this has been an obvious improvement for UA

United... Rising... NO

United... Falling... YES


Regards - Kahala777
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 7:36 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
The hiring standards, quality standards, and performance standards of TZ/WN are not on a high par, as they are for HP/US.

 spit  Oh, now -that's- a good one...  Yeah sure

How, pray tell, did you come to those conclusions?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 7:38 am

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1412388/

WOW, Kahala777 when you use to post under user name lhr001 you were constantly singing the praises of your UA, my what a difference a day makes (and a new user name!)

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 19):
United... Rising... NO

United... Falling... YES


Regards - Kahala777
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
phoenixX2
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 7:44 am

How interesting.... the day after WN realizes that HP is going to Hawaii (they have already directed TZ to do 2 daily flights to the islands from PHX) that TZ asks for 763s. Go East TZ, go East.....far East.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 8:03 am

Quoting PhoenixX2 (Reply 22):
How interesting.... the day after WN realizes that HP is going to Hawaii (they have already directed TZ to do 2 daily flights to the islands from PHX) that TZ asks for 763s. Go East TZ, go East.....far East.

Over on Yahoo!'s ATAHQ stock board, the 767 subject came up sometime back and it was for their military stuff. I don't think the HP/US deal has anything to do with it...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
mattnrsa
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 8:56 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 21):
WOW, Kahala777 when you use to post under user name lhr001 you were constantly singing the praises of your UA, my what a difference a day makes (and a new user name!)

Just curious, but how do you know the two usernames are the same person? Would be hilarious if true.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 10:01 am

Quoting Mattnrsa (Reply 24):
Just curious, but how do you know the two usernames are the same person? Would be hilarious if true.

See www.airwhiners.net and the section bitching about idiots there is a thread about him. Also look under archived civil under user name lhr001 and you can see they are one and the same, also check out his original user name kl777jfk he is a real story teller to say the least.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
ifly2eat
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 2:41 pm

What you all missed in the 767 ramblings is that yesterday TZ filed a motion in court to set aside their pilot union's contract. More mismanagement just as we have seen at UA. Will they ever learn that good customer service starts with good employee moral.
Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
 
Co757
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 5:22 pm

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 3):
aside from the fact TZ have full support from one of the best managed air carriers in the world...WN...

A matter of time. You will See Southwest in the red soon. Labor Cost are the Highest now. All Good things must come to an End. Come On. SWA Senior Mamas make $52 an Hour Top Out Serving a 1/2 can of coke and Cheese colored fish crackers, Bwi-Mci. Hello, Have a Cattle Call for Waitress's pay them $2.13 plus tips, Everyone without A High School Diploma Wants to Be A SWA Flight Attendant.
 
Co757
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sat May 21, 2005 5:24 pm

Quoting F4N (Reply 15):
Don't forget US Airbusways and the A350....

LMAO!
 
jacobin777
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sun May 22, 2005 1:23 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 19):
United... Rising... NO

United... Falling... YES

whoops....i meant US Airways...things DEFINITELY have improved for US...i.e. from a trip to the gutter to being "saved"....hey, it beats the gutter..

Quoting Co757 (Reply 27):
SWA Senior Mamas make $52 an Hour Top Out Serving a 1/2 can of coke and Cheese colored fish crackers,

nah.....can't be true? $52/hour??
"Up the Irons!"
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Sun May 22, 2005 2:52 am

On the topic, I believe the idea that these a/c if they come on property will supplement the military charters for the time being. I personally doubt to see any of these go into revenue service, especially international for the time being. Maybe well into the future if TZ manages to get that far.

For the topic off the topic considering the HP-US to be a problem for WN..
WN has an advantage, their point-to-point route system would allow the option to divert its resources to its many other cities and avoid HP-US "if" things go bad in competition with the combined carrier. Hub-Spoke carriers don't have that advantage as they place all their eggs in one basket(the hub). Every move that is made, Southwest has some kind of better option.

It would take many, many different events and time to pierce the Southwest bubble that they have created. Forward thinking is something that Legacy carriers have missed in the past, WN has been doing for years and it shows.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
swadispatcher
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Mon May 23, 2005 11:28 am

Quoting Co757 (Reply 27):
You will See Southwest in the red soon. Labor Cost are the Highest now. All Good things must come to an End.

Yeah.. and CO is making money hand over fist right now.. please..

Low costs are not just about low wage rates.. it's also about efficiency and that includes aircraft and crew utilizations.

So did you really have anything to add to this thread??? Or was it just a chance to WN bash ??  Big grin
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
 
L-188
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Mon May 23, 2005 11:38 am

So what is the streetvalue for a bootleg copy of the southwest ops manual, vs. the United one.

Higher for Southwest's I wager.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Mon May 23, 2005 12:13 pm

For an example of why SWAir may be headed for trouble, just visit LAX and fly them. Since one way southwest saves money is by piggybacking on the infrastructure already in place, taking advantage of underutilized airports paid for by others (think Walmart and Welfare), once they become too large that strategy falls apart, because they must be a leader, not a hanger on. But being a leader costs.

But totally agreed on the point to point model. SWAir continued to grow while others failed because they actually adjusted from the multi-stop model they began with and moved to the P to P model. Other airlines didn't switch from hub and spoke to even offering occasional direct flights to hungry markets.

CO could easily do the same thing in many markets, and figure out those markets through computer analysis. CO also could improve their outlook by improving their west coast network by choosing select markets for direct flights from LAX and SFO, and adding Burbank service to their hubs. They fell behind by relying on code shares with HP, and then realizing HP was unreliable and the two were headed on divergent paths.

But honestly, the big issue is that older airlines don't know how to set fares. They often charge more than people are willing to spend, sure, but they more often charge LESS than people are willing to spend. That's stupid. The way their fare structures work often means that they sell a bunch of seats at a discount too low, and then bump their rates up to a level nobody would pay in hopes of getting the desperate travelers. I am constantly surprised at how low certain fares are on routes I fly. I am willing to spend more, but I don't because I'm not required to. Econ 101 tells you that you should never sell a product below the price people are willing to spend, no matter what your competitor does. With loads at the high levels they are now, there is no shortage of passengers, just too many airlines charging too little to make a profit.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
cat3ils
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RE: Court Authorizes ATA To Get 767's

Mon May 23, 2005 2:55 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
will these becoming from Big Al's used airplane lot or from some more traditional outlet

absolute classic line... Is Big Al's in Tucson or Ardmore??? haha

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