highliner2
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SWA And Autothrottle

Sat May 21, 2005 3:54 am

I know Southwest doesn't have the autothrottle or autobrake systems hooked up in their 737s, but here's my question, if I'm not mistaken, one of the benefits of the autothrottle system is it provides better fuel burn, with fuel prices where they are does anyone think it's possible SWA may implement the system as a means of lowering fuel costs? As I understand it, it'd just be a matter of 'plugging in' the system.

Just a thought.

-jlk
Go Cubs!
 
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flying_727
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sat May 21, 2005 4:10 am

I thought SWA was happy with the job the pilots were doing with regard to fuel burn. I remember reading memos in the past thanking pilots for doing such a good job at lowering fuel costs.

flying_727
On ATA, You're On Vacation
 
SWAbubba
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sat May 21, 2005 8:17 am

Actually, we do use the rejected takeoff function of the autobrakes. We're also looking into using autobrakes at other times, but nothing official has come out yet.

Haven't heard anything about autothrottles in a while, but if it saves us money you can bet we'll do it sooner or later.
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sat May 21, 2005 10:32 am

I wonder fly they can't use them, it takes another step away from the crews to concentrate on flying the airplane. Like all CFIs will say, Just fly the damn airplane! So why not make it a little easier.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
wagz
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sat May 21, 2005 11:33 am

The idea I beleive was to keep the pilots attention focused on flying the airplane. With today's high levels of automation, a pilot can have some flights where he hardly touches the stick from takeoff to touchdown. Making them always work the throttles is a way of ensuring their pilots don't get complacent or "rusty" from this.

Plus, having to manually work the throttle isn't that big of a deal. Everyone else not flying heavy iron gets by just fine without an autothrottle.
I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sat May 21, 2005 4:45 pm

I believe the reason why Southwest decided not to have Autothrottle, Autobrakes and VNAV on their 737s was for Pilot certification issues and fleet commonality when the 737-200s were in the fleet. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain it had something to do with that.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 5):
I believe the reason why Southwest decided not to have Autothrottle, Autobrakes and VNAV on their 737s was for Pilot certification issues and fleet commonality when the 737-200s were in the fleet. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain it had something to do with that.

Thats pretty much the reason why, from what I was told when I was employed by WN.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
seven3seven
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 8:26 am

SWA has always been behing the times in terms of technology. I think the good ol' boys in Dallas are just afraid of it. But they are good pilots and they definitely want us in the loop.

We started using LNAV about 7 or 8 years ago. Never have used autothrottles or vnav. We now use the rejected takeoff function of the autobrakes and check airman are doing a study now on landing functions.

We just got ACARS for weather and messaging, hopefully it will be used soon for clearances and gate information.

They're now looking at the electronic flight bag which I hope comes sooner than later.

I personally like flying the airplane on climb and approach so no autothrottles is fine by me there. But I do think they should allow them to be used at cruise where the plane could do a better job of saving fuel.

Of course there are a lot of people on this site who think there's no way I could be a SWA pilot. They think I'm full of crap that there is only one 737 type rating for all models in the U.S So they probably won't believe any of this info.
My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company
 
OPNLguy
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 8:38 am

>>>Of course there are a lot of people on this site who think there's no way I could be a SWA pilot. They think I'm full of crap that there is only one 737 type rating for all models in the U.S So they probably won't believe any of this info.

I believe you, and there's an easy way to prove it for them.  Wink
(No other players, please...)

Please answer the question:

On a 737-700 (not the -300 or -500), what row of passengers seats lines up with the in-floor viewer for the main landing gear?

As a a bonus:

On your TP plots, which is worse, Code-3 conditions, or Code-4 conditions?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
2H4
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 8:44 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 8):
(No other players, please...)

......Damn.

 bitelip 



2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
seven3seven
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 9:08 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 8):
Please answer the question:

On a 737-700 (not the -300 or -500), what row of passengers seats lines up with the in-floor viewer for the main landing gear?

As a a bonus:

On your TP plots, which is worse, Code-3 conditions, or Code-4 conditions?

Good try. Both are very good trick questions.

In the -700 there are no landing gear viewers at all, either in the cabin or in the cockpit. There is a second set of reduntant gear lights on a separate circuit on the overhead panel.

And there is no code 3. We use codes 2, 4, and 6. Don't know why but there ya go.
My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company
 
OPNLguy
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 9:12 am

Ladies and gentlemen, Seven3seven is indeed a Southwest pilot...  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
apodino
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 2:21 pm

Just wondering, isn't Autothrottles required for Cat 2 or 3 landings, which are autoland IIRC? And is Southwest certified for such landings if thats not the case?
 
OPNLguy
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 2:32 pm

We're good for CAT I, II, and IIIa...and we do it without autothrottles...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 2:46 pm

Southwest is one of the richest airlines yet they have these rules like no auto throttles/breaks and classic cockpits because they save money and its good for the pilots sake. If they had auto breaks maybe they could have avoided that crash they had at Burbank Airport where the pilot forgot how to land a plane on a short runway.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 3:03 pm

>>>If they had auto breaks maybe they could have avoided that crash they had at Burbank Airport where the pilot forgot how to land a plane on a short runway.

I don't think "autobreaks" would have helped, but "autobrakes" are another matter....  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
seven3seven
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 5:10 pm

Hey AirWillie, does it make you feel better to make insensitive remarks like that?

Do you really think that 4500 pilots aren't striving every day to make this a completely safe operation and that we don't regret that one stupid idiot ruined our reputation?

Thanks so much for your constructive criticism. Its really needed and appreciated. By the way, please let us know more about how we can better run our airline. I'm sure you're very well qualified.

I gotta go figure out how to spend my profit sharing.
My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 5:53 pm

Hey 737, does it make you feel better to make insensitive remarks like that?

I didn't say WN pilots are not safe. WN flights in my opinion are fun because each time you never know what type of flying you will get. And if you want to know how to better better run Southwest then have assigned seating.
 
powerofpi
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 6:56 pm

you want to see assigned seating on WN? are you being sarcastic?

[Edited 2005-05-22 11:57:59]
 
DC8FriendShip
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 7:24 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 17):
And if you want to know how to better better run Southwest then have assigned seating.

Yeah, that's what will do it... sarcastic 
Come fly the Friendly Skies of United
 
mandala499
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 7:57 pm

Assigned seating in Southwest? Then Southwest won't be an LCC anymore !  Smile

Autobrakes at Burbank would have helped? RUBBISH! According to the report the pilot wasn't "in the slot" for a correct config. With hindsight, he should have aborted... Maximum manual braking brakes more than than autobrakes!

Try and force land in Burbank 08 from 3000ft 4 miles from the runway with a 182 knots touchdown and max autobrakes and see whether you'd get fired from Southwest 5 months after that landing!

OPNL and seven7seven, What's WN's standard landing flap? 30 or 40?

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
captaink
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Sun May 22, 2005 8:52 pm

AirWillie6475 said "Southwest is one of the richest airlines yet they have these rules like no auto throttles/breaks.."

Maybe you just solved the mystery, maybe that is the key to their wealth...

But on a serious note, WN saves money in small genius ways, but with a few hundred airplanes and flights over years these small savings add up significantly.
There is something special about planes....
 
OPNLguy
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 3:48 am

>>>OPNL and seven7seven, What's WN's standard landing flap? 30 or 40?

30...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Cactus739
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 4:15 am

Go figure.

Somehow a topic on autobrakes at Southwest, someone somehow managed to work assigned seating into it.....  banghead 
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
OPNLguy
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 4:33 am

>>>Somehow a topic on autobrakes at Southwest, someone somehow managed to work assigned seating into it.....

Why sure, the cotrol box has settings for:

MIN
MED
MAX
RTO
ASSIGNED SEATING

 Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
2H4
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 4:37 am

I don't know how you guys missed it, OPNL. Just look at how well assigned seating is doing for the rest of the majors in the US...

 sarcastic 


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
Cactus739
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 4:37 am

You know,...... if they had IFE....  Smile
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
flyabunch
Posts: 443
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 4:48 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 24):
Why sure, the cotrol box has settings for:

MIN
MED
MAX
RTO
ASSIGNED SEATING



Quoting Seven3Seven (Reply 16):
I gotta go figure out how to spend my profit sharing.

I want to thank you both for your refreshing comments. My whole reason for being here is to be involved with people who know what they are talking about...and can do it and be humorous at the same time.
Thanks,

Mike
 
777STL
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 4:54 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 17):
Hey 737, does it make you feel better to make insensitive remarks like that?

I didn't say WN pilots are not safe. WN flights in my opinion are fun because each time you never know what type of flying you will get. And if you want to know how to better better run Southwest then have assigned seating.

Want to know how to run an airline profitably?

Just ask a 14 year old Airliners.net geek.....
PHX based
 
planespotting
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 6:01 am

not to brag, but i could have answered the turbulence plot question too...

haha
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
mandala499
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 12:21 pm

OPNLguy,
Flap30? Did the guy at Burbank ever get to that flap setting? Granted 182kts could rip your flaps if at flap30... 182kts... Hey aint that roughly the clean flaps config manouvering speed for a 732 at say... 40 tons?

Has the guy suggesting autobrakes and assigned seating have an idea? Maybe we should give him an MD80 at MaxLW on wet runway with spoiler defective and see how many meters he'll use on that roll...


2H4...
"Just look at how well assigned seating is doing for the rest of the majors in the US.." + "Assigned seating in Southwest? Then Southwest won't be an LCC anymore"

I guess we can say WN needs a hell of a long look into assigned seating before it's even seriously considered...


Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
OPNLguy
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 12:36 pm

>>>Flap30? Did the guy at Burbank ever get to that flap setting? Granted 182kts could rip your flaps if at flap30... 182kts...

BUR is one of those places where Flaps-40 is the norm, which is what they had selected, but they blew back to 30 due to their speed.

Check out the NTSB report if you need more details....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
pilotpip
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 12:59 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 14):
If they had auto breaks maybe they could have avoided that crash they had at Burbank Airport where the pilot forgot how to land a plane on a short runway

Funny, that plane AA put in the approach lights at DEN had autoBRAKES and auto throttles. Not trying to pick on AA here, but technology isn't always the answer. It could even be argued that the reason WN doesn't have more of these incidents is because their pilots spend more time stick and rudder and don't rely on technology so much.
DMI
 
mandala499
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 1:12 pm

OPNLguy,
Thanks, I read the report some time ago. I forgot that WN is flap30 (with Burbank at 40 and maybe some other places where it's required)...

You work at WN? Oh you poor thing... you're running out of what to invest or spend with your bonus/profitsharing etc... J/K  Smile

As Pilotpip puts it... What's the use of technology if you don't use it properly or loose proficiency because of it... In the meantime, I'll stick to stone age aircraft and the stone age 732 simulator for handflying and use microsoft flight simulator for the fancy gizmotry... LOL

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: SWA And Autothrottle

Mon May 23, 2005 1:55 pm

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 32):
technology isn't always the answer.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This computer geek is freaking out now... Don't say things like that  cry 



Seriously though, you are of course right. Technology + pilots = flying. But more technology won't magically allow the pilots to break the laws of physics. As exhibit A, I present the Air France A320 Mulhouse crash. Great technology but the brains of the operation (yes I mean the pilot) still managed to plow into the trees.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo