EK156
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Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sat May 21, 2005 10:27 pm

How come Iberia does not fly to Dubai? Even EK does not fly to Spain. How come there are no direct flights between Dubai and Madrid or Barcelona?

I am getting vague answers but I hoped A.net could help with this one...
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sat May 21, 2005 10:30 pm

How many people from Asia and Australia/N.Z. reside in Spain? I can't imagine there being that many, so there might not be that much VFR traffic.

What are the business links like between Spain and Asia? Again, I can't imagine there being that many, so there might not be much business demand.

I guess the bulk of the traffic would comprise tourists.

Despite all of this, I should think that a thrice-weekly connection between DXB and MAD, perhaps via somewhere, ought to be all right, but then again it might not be.
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EK156
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sat May 21, 2005 10:44 pm

EK flies to Vienna and Austrian Airlines flies to Dubai. I am sure that Spain would have better loads than Vienna. Plus the Vienna flights are daily!!!!

I think there is more to it.... dunno what though
 
9v-svc
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sat May 21, 2005 11:19 pm

I am also puzzled why EK is not flying to AMS .
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jaumett
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sat May 21, 2005 11:25 pm

I just know that the newspapers in Barcelona again and again mention that for authorities here it is a priority to lure an airline to fly BCN-Dubai or aome other city in the gulf... this was mentioned again with the new US Airways flight to Philadelphia this week. I assume they have been trying hard to sell the case to EK, because no one around here expects much from Iberia.

j
 
OS-A330
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 2:15 am

Quoting EK156 (Reply 2):
EK flies to Vienna and Austrian Airlines flies to Dubai. I am sure that Spain would have better loads than Vienna. Plus the Vienna flights are daily!!!!

Are you really that sure?

1. Vienna has a rather high density of representatives of Middle East firms and organizations (e.g. OPEC) and is one of the three UN seats.
How else would you explain the fact that a huge chunk of Middle East airlines fly to Vienna.
2. Leisure travel: Spain itself has islands and beaches, why bother going to Dubai?
3. Connecting traffic: As we Austrians are big fans of Southeast Asian countries like Thailand and Malaysia, there is a fair amount of all-inclusive traffic to these locations, either nonstop on OS or on EK flights via Dubai for example.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 2:27 am

Spain has very few ties to SE Asia or the Middle East.(neither business-wise or tour-operator wise..)- hence the reluctancy to open routes to the Middle East.
Long-distance vacations are targeting their home-market in South America and the Carïbes ,and that's where everybody speaks spanish ( exept Brazil ).
Strangely enough,there is more business potential for EK in Austria or Switzerland than in Spain and that will remain for a long time like that...
Even a city like Prague could see EK planes earlier than Madrid....
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kl911
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 2:33 am

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 3):
I am also puzzled why EK is not flying to AMS .

Because KL already flies there with the 777 and 767. There is just no demand for another carrier.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
How many people from Asia and Australia/N.Z. reside in Spain? I can't imagine there being that many, so there might not be that much VFR traffic.

What are the business links like between Spain and Asia? Again, I can't imagine there being that many, so there might not be much business demand.

I wouldn't call Dubai Asia, even if it ofiicially is. If you mean transfer to Asia, I don't think that's the reason carriers fly there. The KL flight drops pax in DXB and picks them up again. No transfer there. It's becoming a popular tourist destination (For the wealthy tourists....)

KL911
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 2:36 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 7):
I wouldn't call Dubai Asia

I didn't say it was. A lot of people use EK to connect, primarily to or from Asia. But, of course, a lot also stop in DXB, although EK on Europe-DXB-Europe is, generally speaking, more expensive than the other options, just like it is usually cheaper to fly on QR from LHR to, say, BKK than it is to fly LHR to DOH.  Smile
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Avianca
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:15 am

I say, EK could fill up easy a daily flight dxb-bcn and dxb-mad.

maybe there is not the same traffiic from spain into asia as from other european countrys, but there are not so much flights. And yes spain is expanding in Asia, china for example. to mention Air Europa with new 4 weekly flights from mad to china (2xpvg and 2xpek)
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B742
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:20 am

Maybe a DXB-BCN-MAD or an DXB-EU.CITY-MAD option would be better!

I would like to see IB or EK flying DXB-MAD/BCN some day!

Would a DXB-AMS-MAD/BCN work?

Rob!
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:34 am

Pe@rson,

There is a majority of Asian population in Spain, especially in Madrid. I honestly don't think there is much of a market for Spain-Dubai. Iberia code-shares already on BAs flights to Dubai.
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AC787
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 10):
Would a DXB-AMS-MAD/BCN work?

I don't think that would work. Fly to dubai from amsterdam by flying several hours away to MAD/BCN and then make your way to DXB ... would make for a much longer flight which would be sure to throw away all business traffic. A DXB-MAD/BCN-AMS would make more sense but still very unlikely.

AC787
 
stirling
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 7:42 am

I have wondered about this as well.

Mainly, DXB being a connector to Manila, and some of the larger SE Asian population centers....since the only easy way from Spain to the Philipines is a Star Alliance hookup, Spanair to Bangkok, then Thai to Manila. The other option requires going through either FRA or AMS, which together those 3 options must suffice for the little traffic between Espana and the former colony.

Still, the Spain to SE Asia route seems to just the type of market EK seems to cater to specifically over their hub in DXB, yet doesn't serve, which tells me there just isn't the demand...

But Spain is a different animal...if you live there, why go anywhere else, No?

As in the same way AF, SN, TP all have flights to their former African Colonies, the national carriers of such, most have flights back to the European capitals...lots of travel back and forth.

Even tiny Macau had a flight to Lisbon once upon a time. As a matter of fact, I believe it was one of the first routes TP used their A340 on if I am not mistaken.

And then there is GA, no flights to AMS, in the same boat as Manila and Madrid.
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EK156
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 8:30 am

Quoting OS-A330 (Reply 5):
Are you really that sure?

1. Vienna has a rather high density of representatives of Middle East firms and organizations (e.g. OPEC) and is one of the three UN seats.
How else would you explain the fact that a huge chunk of Middle East airlines fly to Vienna.
2. Leisure travel: Spain itself has islands and beaches, why bother going to Dubai?
3. Connecting traffic: As we Austrians are big fans of Southeast Asian countries like Thailand and Malaysia, there is a fair amount of all-inclusive traffic to these locations, either nonstop on OS or on EK flights via Dubai for example.

Technically we have more Spanish people in Dubai than we have Austrians. However, the Austrains love Dubai as a Touristic destinations as well as the Spanish do. What I was trying to say is that I believe that the loads on a DXB-BCN-DXB flights will be higher than those on other flights like Vienna cause Spain is a hot destination. So why don't they fly there!!!

Then again I might be wrong!!

I believe it has something to do with landing rights... cause I heard from a friend who words in Emirates that Iberia doesn't want Emirates to fly to Spain.. could that be true or was I misinformed?
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 9:26 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 11):
There is a majority of Asian population in Spain

Wow!! Where??

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 11):
especially in Madrid.

Wow!! Where??

I mean..the largest foreign community in Madrid right now are the Latinamericans (Ecuador, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, Dom. Republic), followed by Moroccans, Romanians, Eastern Europeans in general and citizens from other EU countries. But...a big Asian community in Madrid? Definitely not.

Of course there are Syrians, Koreans, Chinese, Filipinos and a few Pakistanis and even fewer Indians...but if we put them together they will still be a very small community.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 11):
I honestly don't think there is much of a market for Spain-Dubai.

I agree with this part.

However, it's important to mention that during the late 70s and early 80s Iberia used to fly to some interesting destinations in the Middle East, such as:

Beirut
Teheran
Kuwait
Jeddah
Abu Dhabi

The Beirut route has been re-opened recently as most of we know, but the remaining routes will never be re-opened I think.

It is also worth to mention that although Iberia doesn't fly to Middle East (excepting Tel Aviv and Beirut), there are a few airlines from that part of the world that fly to Madrid. They are: Royal Jordanian, Iran Air, Syrian Airlines.

Saudi Arabian and Kuwait Airways also used to fly to Madrid, but cancelled their service more than 10 years ago.
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ZRH
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 9:43 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 7):
Because KL already flies there with the 777 and 767. There is just no demand for another carrier.

But it is interesting that Zurich as smaller airport than AMS has two daily flights by Swiss (A332 or 343) and Emirates (A345 or 343). In this case I could see easily a flight to/from Spain.
 
stirling
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 12:26 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 16):
But it is interesting that Zurich as smaller airport than AMS has two daily flights by Swiss (A332 or 343) and Emirates (A345 or 343). In this case I could see easily a flight to/from Spain.

I think the dynamics of Zurich are much more different that what is present in Madrid...Banking being the obvious.
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Emirates Skies
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:29 pm

With all respect due to those commenting that the loads on EK's flights to VIE could be better, I agree in that they could be better on some days. However, bear in mind that this flight often goes full in both directions. The loads are better than some people are leading us to think.

I think that a 3 or 4 times weekly IBERIA flight from Dubai to Madrid (perhaps via Barcelona on some days) could work well. Iberia can feed traffic to its destinations in the Americas, as well as Western Europe, and vice-versa, especially with labourer and oil industry traffic from/to Latin America, and leisure and some business traffic from/to Western Europe. I believe that it would do well as very often, flights out of Dubai to Europe are full, and with good yields too.

On the other hand, I think that if Emirates wanted to enter the market of the Iberian peninsula, I think that it would work best with flights to Madrid and Barcelona on alternating days, with a stop in Malta in both directions. Malta could be delinked from Tripoli (as will happen at the end of September 2005), and delinked from Larnaca, as is scheduled to happen as of October 2005. I believe that there's enough demand for dedicated Emirates flight to both Tripoli and Larnaca from Dubai. There's also quite some demand for year-round Malta-Spain flights and the Maltese Government is also offering incentives for operators who would do so.

Just my €0.02 worth.
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 6:58 pm

IBERIA747

I have seen many Koreans and Japanese living in Madrid. Even at my school there is a majority of Koreans attending it. But you have lived in Madrid longer then I have so I think you would know.
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IBERIA747
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 7:32 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 19):
I have seen many Koreans and Japanese living in Madrid

I didn't say there aren't Asians in here...look at what I posted:

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 15):
Of course there are Syrians, Koreans, Chinese, Filipinos and a few Pakistanis and even fewer Indians...but if we put them together they will still be a very small community.



Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 19):
Even at my school there is a majority of Koreans

That doesn't mean anything...go to check the rest of Madrid's schools and you'll be surprised...the Asian community in Madrid is less than 30,000 people, while the Equatorian community is about 400,000, Colombians are more than 100,000 and Romanians are close to 100,000 too.

Those Koreans you see at your school could easily be the 80 or 90 percent of Korean children living in Madrid, as those communities are always very tight and always stick to each other when living out of their countries.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 19):
But you have lived in Madrid longer then I have

Well...I'm Spanish and have witnessed the immigration phenomenon here since it started to gain force.
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Fermarta
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 9:31 pm

Last year Air Europa said that it was interested in flying to Dubai in the near future.

(In Spanish) http://www.labolsa.com/noticias/20040222103013/

Btw, UX first flight to China was scheduled to depart this morning from Madrid. Air Plus Comet will start flying there on July 4th.
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aerokiwi
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 9:54 pm

Exactly what is the appeal of Dubai as a tourist destination? Beaches? Yes, but blindingly hot. and Spain has many beautiful beach areas already. REsorts? Yes, but there are resorts all over the world.

Having been to Dubai for the first time just recently, I just don't understand the attraction of the place as a tourist destination. Maybe the shopping but even that was underwhelming. Looks like the kind of place where you go into your hotel and pretty much stay there for the duration of your visit.

So I don't see much of an argument there for flights between Spain and Dubai based on tourist traffic. The heat might attract northern Europeans but Spain's pretty warm year-round so that sorta wipes out that attratction.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Sun May 22, 2005 9:55 pm

Talking about the heat... many people living in MAD leave during the summer to cooler places, like near the sea.
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Emirates Skies
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RE: Iberia To Dubai? Will It Ever?

Mon May 23, 2005 6:25 pm

I love winters in Dubai... just when all Europe is in freezing mode. In summer, a lot of people transit via Dubai to Asia/Oz/NZ, or in the opposite direction to Africa and Europe.

Iberia could help people in their annual summer exodus out of Dubai to Spain, Western Europe and the Americas with some very tempting exotic destinations.

Again, just my €0.02 worth.
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